MSI GX 60 mit 7970

This reminds me of when I bought my old current 6860FX. Top tier graphics with a weak CPU for $1100. It's lasted almost 5 years though so I can't complain too much.

 

Man there are way too many split up forum posts on the GX60. Did some digging in the AMD fusion thread and found a link :

AMD Trinity A10-4600M Laptop APU Review - Piledriver Arrives - Piledriver Cores, Turbo Core 3.0 & GPU-Z Shots - Legit Reviews

Looks like my theory is completely out the window.

The voltages are insanely low for the CPU speeds shown. 2.7GHz @ 0.8V and 3.2GHz @ 1.025V . This leaves a LOT of potential headroom for overclocking. If you look at the picture with HWINFO running, it states that the maximum effective voltage that can be applied on the CPU is 1.2875V.

Also another BIG note, if you read the small print it says that during most benchmarks the system was running at 2.7GHz, and was using 3.2ghz for "some" single threaded applications. So it looks like the effective multicore turbo is locked to 2.7GHz.

 

Yeah it's pretty much the same as Bulldozer. There's a max turbo and an intermediate one halfway between the base and max speeds. As with llano, the limiting factor probably wont be voltage or stability, but heat. Ths MSI has pretty good cooling though (judging from the GT60), so I think there is a lot of potential there.

I did some calculations and at 4.0ghz, Trinity should have the same single threaded perf as an i5-2410m and multithreaded perf somewhere between the i5 and an i7-2630qm. Still not enough to guarantee that the 7970m wont be bottlenecked imo, but if Trinity can reach those speeds then perf should be significantly more competetive with Intel based notebooks. Still, I think that a 7870m would have been a better choice for this notebook.

 

Personally I would rather if they had an option that got rid of super raid, and had backlit keyboard + dynaudio.

SSD performance scales with capacity , and with RAID you lose TRIM , and according to some articles the scalability of RAID-0 SSDs in real world performance is low to marginal at best.

Read this article for more info : RAID 0 of SSDs: Two Kingston HyperX 120 GB SSDs vs. Kingston HyperX 240 GB SSD - X-bit labs

 

Your results do show that a 4600m has the potential to bottleneck the 7970m badly (roughly -25% it looks like, using your 2310 as a yardstick).

 

So I learned that the A10 APU can't hybrid cross fire with the 7970M, due to the architecture? But can we see hope of this happening tho? Like from newer driver and such, can someone explain how this would work thanks

 

No, as much change as crossfiring an Nvidia card and an AMD card.

They use totally different drivers, compilers, etc, etc, etc.

 

Well correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't a 25% pure cpu bottleneck be corrected by a 25% cpu overclock? So in this case 3.4ghz across 4 cores and 4GHz for a single threaded app.

There has been talk in the Llano forums that some kind of 7660 performance crossfire , see this post by seeratlas: http://forum.notebookreview.com/8597938-post6494.html

 

Assuming perfect scaling you would need a 33.3% overclock.

0.75 x 1.33 is roughly 1.

 

Wow, I really didn't think that one through, thanks lol.

Looking at bulldozer overclock scaling (probably the best indicator I can think of), going from a base clock of 3.6ghz, with turbo of 4.2 to an overclock of 4.9ghz resulted in a 33% performance increase in cinebench.

For llano, a 24% overclock resulted in a 29-34% fps/benchmark increase.

That seems like pretty good scaling, I really wish someone would buy one of those HP Trinity laptops already so we can dig into those piledriver cores.

 

That's average FPS in Metro 2033, which isn't a very CPU demanding game at all.

An i5 bottlenecked a nvidia 650m in BF3, I can only imagine how much an A10 is going to hold back a 7970m.

 

That benchmark is quite demanding on the CPU actually.

 

Me too
Reasons :
1. This will never be high-end, due to the Amd cpu...not saying their cpus are bad, but lately they've fallen way behind at the high-performance level.
So having a top level gpu, a so-so cpu, no backlit keys, just doesn't make a high-end machine.

2. Having a 7870m would have allowed MSI to maintain the Dynaudio sound and backlit keys, along with a reduction in price (it should have just a 500/750GB hdd).
Which equals to a better overall experience, and a MUCH more balanced notebook imo.
(A good gaming machine also, since the 7870m = gtx 670m)

The way it is now, just screams imbalanced to me....top end gpu, mid/entry?!-level cpu, no backlit, no good sound...all it needs now is a 768p screen :tongue:

 

I think MSI still has a few tricks up its sleeve. If the 7970 was going to be a huge bottleneck in the majority of situations , MSI would have put in a 7850 instead. There will probably be 1) Overclocking and/or 2) 7660G assisted processing somehow

The i3 benchmark for metro 2033 may have been 11 fps lower, but 33 fps is still very good for 1080p, very high,AA 4X,AF 4X.

Why does notebookcheck show that running Metro 2033 @ 1920x1080 DirectX 11 / very high AAA 4xAF , only result in 27 fps? Did they run at 16X AA + physx? You mind running a 7970 test like that?

 

If that were the case though, it would be competing too heavily against MSI's Ivy Bridge+670m/675m line.

Right now, what's keeping my interest above all else is the 7970m, regardless of the CPU. Take that away, and I'll ignore the GX60 in favor of the GT60 or similar.

 

There is nothing wrong with competing against Intel if the price is lower. That's what the HP DV6Z-6100 (AMD A8 + 6750m) did vs the DV6t-6100 (Sandy + 6770m).

With overclocking and dual graphics, the AMD machine actually pulled off a much better dx11 benchmark (2200) and very comparable framerates at a much lower cost. Sure it lost in CPU productivity, and was much more complicated to manage and configure, but you got way more bang for your buck. (Considering in Canada my DV6Z was $600, and the DV6t was $1300)

Even without dual graphics.... the system performance was very close in games. Both systems sold very well and both are getting next gen models.

The 7970+price is what is keeping me interested. If the 7970 didnt completely destroy the GTX 670, I probably would have bought a GenTech Barebone GT60. It is all about who can provide the most performance per dollar.

If the A10 + 7970m provides less overall performance than GT60 w/ i5 + gtx 670m, then by all means buy the GT60. I would.

 

I will probably pick up one of these laptops on credit as soon as they come out. I'm all about getting a 7970m, even if the CPU does bottleneck the system a bit.

My DV6Z with 7690m already runs D3 pretty well at 1920x1080, and so long as I get 50-60fps in Battlefield 3 I couldn't care less about any bottlenecks, perceived or otherwise. I'm willing to take a gamble on it.

 

They'd have to seriously mess something up for that to happen .

 

As far as we can tell though, that's the case. We don't have a 4600m to actually compare, but Meaker did benchmarks with a comparable Intel 2310m CPU, and the 2310m was about 25% slower on average FPS than a Sandy Bridge quad.

Like rmacgowa said, it'll come down to pricing, really. If the 4600m/7970m is very competivly priced, it might be worth looking into. Otherwise, an Intel/670m/675m might be the more balanced package. Hmm. I might scour some of the GT60 and GT70 threads and see how those benchmarks look.


And slightly off-topic, but I have it on good authority that a 16'' with a 680m will be coming out in the near future. That'll make my decision even harder, though I know the pricing on that will be pretty steep. Eh. Who knows,

 

The thing that bothers me is that if you ever need any more CPU performance, there's no upgrade path. The slots are easily accessible, but there's nothing to put in. Whereas if you got an i5, you could always just go for an i7 if you needed the extra performance a couple years down the road.

And a stock 4600m will definitely bottleneck BF3. I had an i5-2450m in my Sager np6110 and it kept stuttering with FPS dips into 15-20fps. render.perfoverlayvisible showed that it was because of my CPU.

Also, I'm never posting again.

 

It is my understanding that LLano's turbo (unlike intel's) does NOT sense temp...it relies upon metrics that calculate what amd's engineers thought would generate certain temps. There is the system temp sensor shutdown, but that is not involved with the turbo subsystem.

seer

Well, actually it has been done. I don't remember the name of the company at the moment, but I recall seeing a demo.

seer

 

Yes lucid logic and it requires special hardware and the a10 will barely cover the performance overhead let alone the driver issues.

 

Looks like Trinity is not OCable or OVable in the slightest Undervolting and underclocking work. (But really we don't care about that here).

Also... just like I was saying earlier... there is a big problem with turbo boost. Link626 has tested his Trinity laptop and confirmed that the A10-4600m would turbo boost to 2.7ghz without a problem, but will almost never boost up to 3.2Ghz, and when it does it lasts only for a second or less. ( sounds exactly the same as llano ).

Performance is quite embarrassing as well... Llano totally destroys it in productivity

A8-4500m (2.3ghz is highest it would boost) was destroyed by an A6-3400m @ 2.0ghz. What a freaking joke. I wanted to love trinity, but this just absolutely blows.

 

It's quite depressing. The 680m is insultingly priced, even if it might be the superior card, but there's no way to get an almost-good-but-much-cheaper 7970m with a decent CPU.

I might have to so some really unholy hardware shuffling, but I don't know in advance what'll be compatible with what, and I think there's a limit to what even the illustrious Ken is allowed to do.

EDIT: Turns out a word that translates out to "child born out of wedlock" isn't allowed. Man.

 

Why not just get an i7+7970m?

 

As far as I can tell, MSI doesn't have a model with those options. I know other brands do, but that's a discussion for those particular boards.

 

The cheapest system with that is the Sager 9150 and that's about $1610 without taxes... and shipping... which for me would bring it up to about $1819. Can't afford that lol. Id like to stick in the $1000-1200 mark if not cheaper.

 

At what reseller? I'm pretend-buying from GenTech, and with an i7-3610m, 7970m, Blu-Ray reader, OS, no logo (haha) and everything else stock, I get $1704.01. There's also 3% cashback, but since I'm in California, there's also tax. If I can cannibalize my BR player from my GX660R and put it into the Clevo, I can save $80.

Right now I'm debating between the 9150 and the GE60. I know they're two entirely different machines with entirely different hardware, but at least they're both noticeable upgrades. Yes, the 9150 is a larger upgrade, but it's also much more expensive.


Hrm. MSI y u have no i7+7970m?

 

Reflex Notebook. The only true Canadian Sager dealer. The prices are basically identical to Xotic PC but with a price increase based on the CAD/USD exchange rate.

 

How is this related to the topic?

 

So I've been searching up gx60 and the new a-10 chip for few weeks now, the more I read up on it the more less cofidence I feel...the CPU performance really is somewhere equal if not under the performance of a Sandy Bridge i5..... these are all bench marks ofcourse.

I'm currently using a AMD cpu on a desktop, just wonderin if anyone know how to compare the A-10 to a desktop AMD chip? Just so I can get an idea how it runs in real life, since I've been using my desktop for a good year or so now.

Also anyone got a rough estimate when the gx60 can up on the market?

 

A few sources were speculating late July... but no one is certain.

 

The only thing I'm interested in regards to this model is so resellers can get the 7970m and heatsink (which should be the same shape/formfactor as the GT60) and see if they're compatible.

 

well people already made custom heatsink for the 7970m on GT60, I think the problem was the card itself not compatible, something like an uncontrolled fan speed or something. I mean if it can work on the gt60, heck I'll get the gt 60 then

 

MSI makes its own GPUs, right? They're not reference or whatever. If so, there's a chance it might be compatible, but who knows.

And concerning the heatsink, I really don't trust myself with a dremel.

 

Looks like we have some new info on the GX60!

MSI GX60 gaming Laptop review | Laptop Get

Keyboard is not backlit BUT they emphasize that it DOES have dynaudio (you can see the gold jacks) so that is awesome. Also the first picture is showcasing turbo boost, but I am not sure if this turbo boost applies to the A10-4600m or the 7970m. Hopefully MSI has some kind of unique CPU turbo boost system... time will tell.

 

Rmac, i'm told it DOES have the STEEL Series keyboard. I've also heard late July, but I would think that one of our configurators on the board would have some more detailed information at this point.

seer

 

Steelseries doesn't automatically make it backlit. The GE60 and GE70 keyboards are also Steelseries, bu they're not backlit.

 

Also thats a prototype model so may have borrowed pieces from other models.

 

Man...by sound of it, this thing better be cheap! You lose the cpu and back lit keyboard, but you get the gpu and the super raid....hmmmmmm that MIGHT not make it that much cheaper than the gt60..

 

I Think it will be USD1200~1300, but we must wait the final configuration, In fact we just know about the CPU, the GPU and the killer Network. Maybe the external case will be different (hope not, I like this GX60 Case)... Well... We must wait...

 

It would need a really low price. From what we're speculating, the CPU is going to be choking the GPU something fierce, so much so you could get away with a slower GPU.

 

Seriously..... I mean.. MSI has full of experts in computers.. there must be a reason for them to put A-10 with the 7970m.... I'm sure there's something behind that we're not aware of yet... hopefully

 

Unlocked cores?
Still, Worst case scenario here is you'll be lowering view distance/physics settings, while rocking Ultra Shaders/Shadows. To me, id notice better shaders before I notice draw distance improvements, most physics effects too aren't that noticeable. That 7970 guarantees that you'd be rocking Tess like a boss. I'd take this setup rather than an i7 + 650m anyday.

AMD might be on to something here..

Edit:
One of the pics mentions Eyefinity....

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5831/amd-trinity-review-a10-4600m-a-new-hope/5
http://hothardware.com/Reviews/AMD-Trinity-A104600M-Processor-Review/?page=7

It looks pretty reasonable to me.. hopefully it's OCable..

 

All depends on pricing. If $1200 is the projected pricing, I'd have to think long and hard whether I'd get it over a GE60.

I mean, I do a lot of gaming, so the 7970m would be awesome. However, I do also use my machine for other things like x264 encoding. If the A10-4600m chokes the 7970m badly and is vastly outperformed by anything with i7 (or, hell, i5) in it's name, it'll be a tossup.

 

Overclocking?

1st gen mobile APUs could OC on "cheap" laptops, so a laptop with something resembling decent cooling could have decent OC headroom.

I'm currently window shopping the GX60 as a possible upgrade from my Asus G73 [5870m/i7 720qm 1.6-2.8GHz]

I see the GPU as a substantial upgrade and the stock "CPU-end" as a marginal downgrade. Gaming is my only concern.

Questions:

1: I see the CPU as marginally worse at stock from my i7 720qm, but I have gained the impression over my years that 2 cores and speed is the best starting point. For games that get their mojo from more GHz [pure cycles-per-second] rather than more than 2 core [or a little bit of both] , the A10-4600m [2.3-3.2Ghz] should be in the same ballpark as my i7-720qm. In stuff like Skyrim, I should see little difference between the two CPUs. Sometimes the A10 might even be better.

...I guess the question would be. "Is this thinking still valid, or is it totally wrong?"

2/3: Would the A10 APU be better with Windows 7 or W8? ...and will that really matter for gaming? [I really don't like w8 from what I've seen. I would like a great laptop to keep as a backwards compatible machine. That was going to be my G73, but the 7970m is such a jump over the 5870m.]

4: I should be looking on xoticpc for the barebones?

5: Do you think an IB i3 mobile dual core will get paired with the 7970m in a barebones [any brand] or other as an option within the next few months?

 

Although this APU is slow, like thegreatsquare said these APU's were left with so much space to overclock it. Like my HP in my sig. It came stock with 1.5ghz and i was able to use AMD overdrive and overclock it to 2.4ghz! So i wouldnt doubt that you can do the same here.

 

As of now, the A10 is not OC'able, check HP Pavilion threads.

 

I wasn't paying attention for Llano, was it OCable @ launch?

Not being able to OC the A10 would definitely be a mark against the GX60.


[EDIT: Although if there is a barebones kit @ xoticpc, the BIOS/EFI could be open.]

 

Yeah i definitely agree. That would be a deal breaker for me.