Thermal Past Upgrade...Worth it?

I'm using stock pads and paste on GPU for the time being .. It idles at 50c (44 with cooler).

 

Some people used paperclips or shims to solve their ATI 5870 heat issues but beware. Just be careful

 

Wait, I read the post but I don't understand the paper clip thing. They put paper clips on the GPU Die instead of a flat piece of copper as shims??? Gives new meaning to GPU DIE. After reading this, I'm probably not going to use the shim I ordered, even though it's only .75mm thick. Wow, thanks for that LaptopNut. +1 Rep points for you.

 

No, this method involves using shims on the outside of the heatsink to create more pressure on the inside after it is closed. It sounds like you were planning on using a shim of copper inside of the heatsink on the actual DIE which is different. Take a look here and you will see what I mean. The picture is on post 544

I would imagine that putting a copper shim on the inside DIE might work but I wonder if it will reduce the contact of the RAM to the heatsink slightly.

 

Thanks for the link LaptopNut. Interesting procedure. I can see why it can put too much pressure on the die. I was concerned about this with the shim I am using but I don't think it's thick enough to put too much pressure on the die. It just basically fills the gap that was there before.

Ok, so on to my final mod to address this cooling debacle. I am finally pleased with the results. I got the shim I mentioned in an earlier post. It is a copper shim 20mmx20mm by .75mm thick.

DV2000 DV6000 DV9000 TX1000 Copper Pad Shim 2cmx2cm - eBay (item 220542814291 end time Jun-17-10 12:22:52 PDT)

What's great about this shim is that it is almost exactly the size as the surface area on the heatsink for the GPU. So I sanded it down on both sides with 600, then 1000 grit sandpaper (which made it a hair thinner), then placed paste on one side and mounted it to the heatsink. I also replaced the stock pads with the blue ones I mentioned in a previous post. I originally wanted to avoid using the shim but the gap is still there even when pressing down on the pads to compress them. I didn't try cutting the pads because the material is too delicate and I was afraid of messing them up.

So anyway, I put everything back together and ran the same tests as before. A 15 minute Furmark with stock clocks got me 86C max, and a 750/1100 OC got me a 94C Max on the same test. The OC temps are a bit higher than before when I removed the pads completely but they are still very acceptable. I was also playing Crysis Warhead for about 30 minutes with the GPU OC'd and it peaked at 87C. At least now I am keeping the GPU cool as well as the RAM.

I will run better tests today if I have time using HWinfo32 (thanks LaptopNut) and let you guys know my results.

Another note: Maybe I got a bad batch or something, but I really don't like MX-3 at all! I applied it twice during testing and both times it was really hard to spread (kept clumping) and I got horrible temps (GPU was running around 78 idle). Both times I took the heatsink off after applying the MX-3, I noticed that it did not spread at all, it just clumped up into little blotches all over the heatsink (leaving areas of the heatsink without paste).

I put on OCZ Freeze and never looked back. Not to mention Freeze costs $7 a tube and MX-3 was $20 (from Microcenter).

 

awesome.

 

C'mon Ben, pull the trigger and get a GX640 already!

 

Posted this on another topic:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/msi/474857-msi-gx640-098us-review-29.html#post6273701

!
Only difference is that it might be a Cobra and not a GT anymore

 

Cobras are nice...I'm not a big fan of American cars but that one is nice. Hey you live in Honduras? Do they have the Focus RS there? My friend back in Greece has one. 2.5 Litre Turbo FTW.

 

We have lots of Focus, but the only one I like is the SVT Focus...
I dont like the design... looks like a Tennis shoe haha!
BTW, Focus is american car >_>

lool

 

Although I heard reports of quite a few bad batches of MX3 floating around, I never use spread methods with thick pastes for that exact reason you described. The issue with the ATI GPU's not making proper contact with the heatsink and DIE makes it more likely for the paste not to spread enough because after the heatsink is closed there is little pressure.

I got rid of my ATI 5870 and am back using my GTX 285M now. I used MX3 paste on that and just applied a line of the paste across the middle of the DIE and closed the heatsink. I get idle temps of 39-42C and temps during gaming of 65-70C with temps maxing out after hours of intensive GTA IV of around 76-78C. The ATI GPU's use a smaller nm shrink process and have less wattage and heat so should be cooler.

 

Interesting, maybe I'll try that tomorrow. I'm used to just spreading the paste. If it still clumps up, I think it's safe to assume I got a bad batch. Maybe I'll take up Arctic Cooling on their warranty. Thanks for that suggestion. +1 rep points for you.

 

I thought that the MXM specification should ensure fitting cooler module with the card. Well it seems that I once again need to open my notebook, warranty or not, because my gx gets really hot on furmark( 106C + i think that the thermal sensor can't show more ). Also hwinfo32 shows me that the "MemIO" temperature is the hottest - but I am not sure if this is actually temperature sensor on memory or just memory controller or badly named by hwinfo. Anyone knows? The other two sensors shows relativly bearable temps.
Do you think that the height diference between the memories and cooler can be filled with MX-2 or is it more than 1mm?

 

I doubt it is the paste though. When I had the ATI 5870, my first few applications of MX3 ended up like you described with insufficient coverage but after I tried things to increase the amount of pressure of the Heatsink on the DIE I found that the paste had spread over the DIE as it should have.

If your heatsink isn't making enough contact with the DIE then the paste won't work well of course but by the sounds of it, your shim will help. According to a report I read a few days ago, you should put thermal paste on both sides of the shim too. If you think about it, not only are you trying to close the gap of the microscopic holes between the heatsink and the DIE anymore, you are also trying to close the gap between the first side of the shim and the DIE as well as the other side of the shim to the heatsinks material.

 

According to others on this forum, the MemIO is just the memory controller, not the temperature sensor of the memory. Regarding the MXM specification, I have never had any problems of poor contact or poorly fitting cards with Nvidia and reports of such problems so far, only seem to centre around ATI.

I am not sure what you mean about the height difference between the memories and cooler.

 

Oh sorry, thats error. I ment size of the gap after removing the thermal pads - is it less than 1mm? People here are ordering 1mm pads so it should be.

 

That's the method i use .. spreading will leaves air pocket and doesn't help the whole process of cooling.

 

Nut, yes I used past on both sides of the shim. I was also thinking of maybe using some of that thermal epoxy instead of paste on the side that connects to the heatsink so it is more permanent and stable. What do you think?

Edit: damn it, I keep leaving the letter "e" out of the word paste. Thermal past! Duh.

 

I had never heard of thermal epoxy until you just mentioned it, very interesting and it does sound like a good idea

They sure make it sound like the end of the world....

 

Yeah, I've used the epoxy before in the past on some memory modules. Worked like a charm. Not sure of its heat transfer compared to regular paste but I'm sure it will be fine.

 

Oh and one more thing I forgot to mention regarding cooling of the GPU. I'm sure you guys must have noticed that on the main cover the main vents for the GPU are covered with a small piece of thin plastic, kind of like tape. I removed this on mine. Those little vents are actually the same size as the CPU vents so they are a bit big to just leave uncovered. Luckily I had some of my old laptop casings and one of them had the same exact filter screen material that MSI uses to cover the CPU vents. I cut a little piece out to size and with some automotive-grade double sided tape, I fixed it to the GPU vents. Not sure why MSI covers this vent. It seems that if you leave it open it will allow more air into the chassis to cool the GPU. This should be especially helpful with a good laptop cooler.

 

Confused?!? I keep reading this over and over, and it almost seems contradictory. Are you opening or closing the vent hole?

 

This is what I meant.








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I got rid of those on my machine.

 

The reason those are there is to control airflow. If all the air is drawn in from right above the fan, then too little passes over the memory modules and hard drive.

 

Is this a before or after picture? I see the mesh thingy, is that what you added or removed? Please tell me you added that mesh.

 

Nah, he removed them, just like death, i guess.

 

That's an "after" picture. MSI blocks those vents with a solid piece of removable plastic. I removed that and applied some of that mesh material. Check your GX640 and you'll see.

 

I had that same plastic on my GT627, removed it. Anyone know why it's there?

 

I can only assume that it's there to block the heat coming out of the heatsink and onto your lap.

 

I guess death even removed that mesh, Oh death even removed some plastic from the back covers to give space to some holes

 

No, the mesh for the GPU was never there! Did you guys read my original post? I added the mesh later from a spare MSI chassis that I had laying around from an older model. Was my OP that confusing?

 

Guess we missed that part. Why did you put that crap in anyway ? I got rid of all the grill to maximise air flow on mine.

 

The vents are kind of big to just leave uncovered. I'm afraid of something getting lodged in there, or even some bug making it's way inside and getting fried. LOL. I love all animals.

 

! Where you from anyway ?

 

Who me? NYC baby!

 

Is it that full of creepy crawlies ?

 

Yeah, except the creepy crawlies are called New Yorkers.

 

You find new yorkers creeping into your laptop?

Dam im not going there in the future .

 

lol...ben always has the best pictures

 

I've never modded a laptop before and it looks a lot harder than fixing a desktop, but we'll see!
I'm going to try out the copper shims and use the arctic silver 5 thermal paste.

As I understand, you put just enough thermal paste to cover the GPU and shim(both sides), the less I use the better, so there's more space for the shim. Just to fill in the gap for a cooler laptop!

If it goes well, I'll do the same for my CPU!

Thanks

My MSI GX640-098US
Scheduled Arrival Date: 06/04/10

 

The CPU is fine, no shim needed. Arctic Silver is conductive so be careful.

 

I wouldn't bother using Arctic Silver 5, as careful as you might be, why even bother with the risk when there are perfectly fine alternatives around.

 

Thanks for the fast reply and good advise! (+1 rep for both of you!)
I get my laptop(GX640) a day early, so it comes today!!!

I'm going to get the arctic cooling MX-3 thermal Paste then. With the kind of games I'll be playing, I could use all the cooling I can get! To keep the GPU from burning and also to help the battery last a bit longer.

I guess I won't be needing a shim for the CPU then, thanks.
I'll just replace the thermal paste on the CPU to the MX-3!

I'm going to use that double sided tape to put under the keyboard. That's an easy way to fix the flexing!

When I get that all done... I would say "this laptop is by far the best bang for the buck out there for the size(15.4") and graphics card(ATI Radeon™ HD 5850)!"

 

Maybe undervolting has a more wow-effect

 

But then my games wont play as good!!
I would of got a cheaper laptop with a slower graphics card before I would undervolt my MSI GX640.

 

Make sure to sand down the shim on both sides before installing. The shims are always really rough so sanding down with fine grit sandpaper will smooth the surface considerably. I also would advise against MX-3. I had a nightmare with it because it would not spread at all and just kept clumping up in little globs here and there. I may have gotten a bad batch though. I'm using Freeze right now and my temps are great.

 

What are your temps, screen shots please.

 

I'm gonna take the system apart this weekend to apply some thermal epoxy on the shim so I'm planning to write up a little tutorial. You'll get plenty of pics then