Thermal Past Upgrade...Worth it?

False. Undervolting does not slow or reduce the power of a computer. Undervolting refers to the reduction in excess voltage which serves no purpose other than to cause excess heat. It does not change clock speeds, which are what really matters for gaming.

 

Yea, the only possible downside to undervolting is your system becoming unstable

 

You guys using the AMD GPU Clock tool to undervolt?

 

Sweet! I'll be waiting for this!

 

5870m @700/1000 0,95V here rockstable!
Standard is 1,15V.
Some G73's need 1V.

Furmark max 83°C instead of near 100°C at stock voltage.
30min Dirt2 session max 79°C GPU.
No backcover mod or nb cooler!

For idleing (2D, desktop) I use 200/250 @0,8V, which results in 42-45°C.
Pretty cool

U need to change the vBIOS with RBE.

This tool does only change the clock settings. Plus always switch to the higher Power-ClockSetting-Voltage.
Some users reported also a kind soft voltage change by ccc profiles. But this is more tricky.

Here proof of authenticity:


Also have a look at this freaky things
http://www.notebookjournal.de/forum/showpost.php?p=159591&postcount=1072

 

@tilla...those temps are awesome...can the rbe be used on the 5850 as well? Is that the one from techpowerup?

 

Yeah, RBE 1.25 > techpowerup.
I've also looked at the new beta vBIOS for the GX640.
Here a look:


Maybe the 5850m can go further down. Lowest voltage is already 1V at power.
Sadly, the GX740 vBIOS has only 2 clocksettings. 5850 has 4 as you can see.

You have to set the voltage manually.
Some cool guys even tested a idle voltage of 0,3V. This doesnt irritated the card. Maybe an internal wall against insane undervolters
I think this wall is at about 0,85 or 0,8.

 

This is great info!!! Danke @tilla

 

I had that same problem with MX3 on the ATI 5870 but not on the Nvidia GTX 285M. My problem was caused by the lack of contact between the ATI 5870 and it's heatsink. With the GTX 285M, MX3 has given me great temps and no issues at all and this was exactly the same paste.

I also do not recommend using any spread methods for thick thermal pastes. In fact, every single thermal paste I use, I apply a line and just let the pressure of the heatsink and DIE contact spread it out and have never had any problems.

When ever I had cause to re do the paste due to reinstalls or experiments, it always showed good coverage from that method.

I have heard of some getting bad batches of MX3. MX2 thermal paste isn't as thick, is easier to apply and also works well and is non conductive.

 

This is fantastic news.

Many thanks @tilla!

 

Ok guys, just completed switching to thermal epoxy for the side of the shim that connects to the heatsink. My temps are a lot worse now. Before the epoxy I would get a max temp of 90C with a 15 minute Furmark. I just ran the same test and it reached 101F. I think it's safe to say that regular paste is better. Now to the next step, removing this stuff. It's supposed to be permanent. I'm gonna try freezing it and see if I can snap it off without damaging anything. I took pics for a little tutorial but I'm gonna wait till all is done before posting it.

 

Doesn't it require a certain amount of break-in time? So it can set properly. Maybe that's the issue?

 

Perhaps, but I don't think it applies with the epoxy. I think once it cures, it's completely solid and doesn't shift or spread in any way. Anyway, I removed it and put back my original setup with Freeze. Temps are 2-3 degrees higher now but I think it has to do with ambient temperature. It's 80F in my apartment and I have no A/C and humid as hell. NYC sucks in the summer.

 

Ok, here's a little tutorial on adding a copper shim to the heatsink. This is quite a simple procedure but if anyone is concerned about warranties or any other crap, don't bother. If you have a couple of cojones and wish to effectively reduce your temps and probably add life to your gpu, then go for it. It solved heat issues for me. Like I stated previously my heatsink was only making contact with one small corner of the GPU die. Now it makes perfect contact across the entire die. Things you'll need:

1) Copper shim
DV2000 DV6000 DV9000 TX1000 Copper Pad Shim 2cmx2cm - eBay (item 220542814291 end time Jun-17-10 12:22:52 PDT)

2) Some fine grit automotive grade wet-dry sandpaper. I used 600 to start then 1000 to finish the sanding

3) Regular rubbing alcohol

4) Thermal paste of your choice (I use OCZ Freeze)

5) Phillips screwdriver

6) Q-tips and some paper towels

7) Compressed air

8) A little patience and common sense

First, remove the bottom cover to expose the heatsink and internals:



Next, start removing the heatsink. First remove the screws that hold the modem module in place as it blocks the heatsink assembly from being released. You don't have to unplug the cable, just unplug the modem and move it out of the way:



Next carefully remove the power connector for the heatsink fan. Then, start loosening and removing the screws that hold the heatsink in place. The GPU has 4 spring loaded screws, the CPU has 3, and the northbridge has 2 removable screws. After the screws have been loosened or removed, gently pry up the heatsink and carefully remove it while it's at an angle as shown, being extra careful not to tear any of the thermal pads:



Next we need to remove the old heatsink paste from the heatsink itself, and the CPU and GPU dies. Use q-tips, rubbing alcohol, paper towels, and an air duster at the end to completely dry it.







Ok, now let's prep the copper shim. This is obviously something you could do before taking things apart. Just find a flat surface and apply some water to the shim or sandpaper and start gently sanding until the surface is as smooth as possible. Now, the sanding will thin out the copper shim a bit depending on how much sanding you do so don't go overboard. The final surface should feel smooth to the touch. Don't worry if the surface is not shiny or if there any minor swirl marks. The thermal paste will be used to fill any microscopic imperfections in the surface. Make sure to sand both sides of the shim.



When the sanding is done, clean the shim on both ends with alcohol and put it aside. Next we add the thermal paste to the heatsink. The picture below is actually thermal epoxy which I don't recommend. I ended up using the spreading method to apply the paste here, but I think if you just put a little paste in the center of the square about the size of a grain of rice it will spread nicely. Next place the shim on the heatsink and press down with some good pressure to spread out the paste. Don't use too much pressure and break anything. You'll find that the shim will stick to the surface kind of like glue.









After all is done, it's time to reapply the heatsink. Obviously you'll need paste on the GPU and CPU dies again. When you are done reinstalling the heatsink it will be a good idea for the first time, to remove it again after a minute or two to inspect the thermal paste to make sure it is spreading evenly over the die. If it is, and it should be, just clean the old paste off (not from the shim to heatsink side), reapply, and reinstall. That should be it. Like I stated in previous posts, my temps improved dramatically.

 

I got my laptop on the 3rd and Its better than I expected!

Fixes:
-The keyboard is good, so I wont bother to add double sided tape!
-My shim or past didn't come in the mail yet, but the GX640 is still very good!
Thanks for the great tutorial. This will is my first time doing something like that, so this will really help me!

Here's what I've been doing while im waitng for that shim and past!

Games:
I watched a video of someone playing Dirt 2 maxed out with a upgraded CPU at 24-25fps. When I played It without any upgrades, it was at 25-26fps. I found out that an upgraded CPU isn't needed, the stock one is already good enough! I think the guy just started recording when the laptop was a bit hotter.

I recorded me playing Dirt 2 and crashing a lot, because I was using my left hand to film.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cSpnXq5OtY

Different race on replay to show that I can race and casual difficulty lol!
(Also on the GX640)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGonRgvlgn4

Another Impressive break through!!!
It can run ArmA 2 maxed out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbYT0Ln7FBw

MSI GX640 maxed out Command and Conquer 3, this was expected...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFA3jx0fzpA

Thats all the videos I made so far.
I'll keep making videos as I get more games installed.
I plan on making one for Crysis, Crysis: Warhead, Crysis 2, Battlefield: Bad Company 2, ArmA 2: Operation Arrowhead, Starcraft 2, and thats all I can think of right now.

I love this laptop! Cant wait to add that shim, so I can play longer lol!
-----------------------------------
MSI GX640

 

@Kosti,

Which one is the GPU? The grey aluminum looking heatsink thingy or the copper bigger looking one?

*Noob alert, sorry*

 

dookie.... are you ever going to actually buy this laptop?

The GPU is the one with the big copper heatsink

 

Yes. Money's been saved up since like a month ago. Remember, I'm gonna reward myself with a new lappy if CSU Fullerton's MPA program accepts me.

EDIT: If they don't accept me, I will have to just wait.

 

Looks like it's getting harder to acquire a GX640 now. MSI may have discontinued it from what I'm reading. Better for us owners, it will gain cult status now...kind of like a Delorean

 

YES! I'm going to keep mine shrink-wrapped in the box.

 

Are you reading something we dont know Kotsi?

 

Is there a bottom panel that one can purchase to mod for this chassis? Please advise.

 

Yes there is, just gotta ask resellers and barebones retailers

 

I'm so glad I made my purchase when I did. I did this like 3-4 times and ended up missing out RIGHT when I was about to buy it. Did it with a few gateways (7908) I just wanted a gud laptop that supported i7.

 

If that were true, you would've been an idiot to take off the epoxy

 

Haha, he means... 101C.. probably.

Anyway, @kosti, would you please give us a brief summary of what temperature impact each step of your modifications gave? How much actual difference does just adding a shim make compared to stock configuration?

Thanks

 

ha ha...yeah I meant C.

I didn't formally make a summary of my temps during all the steps, but read my earlier posts. With the stock configuration and stock clocks my GPU reached 94C with a 60 Second Furmark. Now it peaks at 80C with the same test, and around 90C with a 15 minute Furmark.

 

pics..........

 

Hey Kosti, just curious, are you still going strong with your mod?

 

Woah, old thread revived!

 

Can someone re-up the pics

Old thread, I know, but I am planning to get this and I would really appreciate having pics for when I do this mod

Thanks

 

I should have taken pics. I just did it myself. Sorry about that. It was really easy, though.

I bought the .44" thick copper shim (look in this thread for the ebay link) and sanded it smooth with 1000 grit WETORDRY sandpaper ($5 at AutoZone). Then, I removed the heatsink assembly and cleaned the stock paste off both the heatsink and the GPU and CPU cores (I left the pads alone, including the one that makes contact with the chip next to the fan (not the CPU or GPU)). I put the shim on top of the GPU core and reinstalled the heatsink to make sure that all thermal pads were still making contact, which they were. I then applied some AS5 that I had laying around to the GPU heatsink and pressed the shim onto it. I didn't see any paste oozing fro the edges, so I took the shim off, added more paste, and reapplied it. Then, I put paste on the CPU and GPU cores. I then reinstalled the assembly and waited for a couple of minutes. I removed the assembly again to make sure I had applied enough paste and that there was even coverage. I reccomend that you do this because I definitely needed more paste in a few areas. I cleaned the paste off the GPU side of the shim, the GPU, the CPU heatsink, and the CPU. Then I reapplied the paste, keeping in mind the areas where I should have applied more the first time. I installed the assembly and turned on my compputer and then realized that I forgot to plug the fan in. REMEMBER TO PLUG THE FAN IN haha. Now my temps average about 15C lower. Good stuff. Let me know if you need more advice or some help. It's really simple to do.

 

can u post the link for .44 shim. somehow i couldn't find it

 

The auction has ended, but you can contact the seller on eBay and ask him directly.

eBay My World - chips2481

 

15c is a huge drop, congrats. Do you remember how well MSI did the thermal paste on your laptop? With my EX625, it looks like they covered the copper pad of the GPU and CPU with thermal paste then attached it. When I replaced the thermal paste with Shin Etsu X23, my GPU load temps actually went up 7C (from 100c to 107c), using the rice grain on die method.

However, all this was before I cleaned out the fan assembly, which dropped my GPU load temps to 78-82c, after multiple reseatings. I'm actually curious to see if my load temps will drop even more if I applied TIM the same way MSI did, on the copper pad instead of GPU die.

Right now, I have a 1/2" x 1/2" (0.6 mm thick, I think) shim I also purchased from chips2481 between the GPU and heatsink. I've sanded it up to 800 grit. Surprisingly, my temps haven't changed at all from before. That must mean the GPU makes adequate contact with the original heatsink. I just have to figure out why my temps went up originally.

 

Does someone have the photos on page 12? Thanks

 

UPDATE: I ran FurMark again for 15 minutes, and my temps peaked at 83C.

Long story short, I had sent my GX640 back to MSI and they replaced the CPU. The problem still wasn't fixed, so I sent it in again. They then replaced the GPU. That means they replaced the thermal grease twice, and I think some quality was lost in the process. My max GPU temps were around 97C before the replacements and 107C after. So that's an original difference of ~16C and a post-replacement difference of ~24C. I'm so glad some one decided to try the copper shim mod.

I guess the AS5 took a few heat cycles (from earlier today) to break it in. As soon as I added the shim, I ran FurMark, and my GPU temp peaked around 92C. Now, like I said above, my max temp is 83C after 15 minutes. I'm very happy with the results.

Also, my CPU temps are a couple of degrees C cooler as compared to the stock temps. I'm not sure if I can attribute this to using AS5 or a better heatsink placement, but I'm not going to complain.

Again, if anyone would like some help performing this upgrade, send me a message or post in here. This is how this machine was supposed to run.

 

DaFinest, I managed to do the upgrade without the pics. If you know what the GPU looks like vs. what the CPU looks like, you really won't have any trouble doing this. I was nervous, but it really is simple.

 

To answer your question, it looked to me like they just slopped a while bunch on the heatsink side of the GPU and the CPU because the stuff was EVERYWHERE. It was such a pain to clean it out from between the small metal components sticking up form the surface of the chip. It wasn't hard (especially when using qtips), just a pain.

As far as the copper shim, you're right. It wouldn't make any difference (aside from the difference caused by redoing the paste) if the GPU and the GPU heatsink already made good contact. If anything, using a copper shim when not necessary would cause the rest of the GPU heatsink to make less contact with the other parts of the GPU like the memory.

My only guess as to why your temps went up originally is that maybe you didn't have enough paste applied. When I applied paste, I let everything sit and then disassembled it to check the coverage. It turned out that I needed more paste in several areas, so I redid it accordingly. Maybe some surfaces weren't covered enough?

 

I finally found a shop that sells copper sheets. I bought one that's 0.6mm thick. Would one of those be enough or should I double it?

Also, is Tuniq tx-2 thermal compound any good? The shop closest to my house only carries this and I was wondering if that would do. I've read some reviews, and a few users commented that it gets "runny" over time.

EDIT:
Some additional questions:
1. I had to do my own cutting so my shim isn't a perfect square. Is that okay?
2. Will the pressure of the heatsink be enough to flatten out the shim? There's a slight curving of the surface. I've straightened it out as best I could with what tools I have available (vise grip and pliers), but there is still a bit of curve. It is mostly noticeable when I put it on a flat surface.

 

The screws on the GPU heatsink will give you a considerable amount of force, but you don't want to make then flatted out the copper shim because you're still screwing into a circuit board. Try a vice maybe? I'm not sure if you'll be able to double it. You might be able to if you sand both down a bit.

 

I usually just put a larger dab on the GPU since it seems harder to spread than my CPU. It gets about circular coverage on the GPU, like a circle inside a square. It doesn't really matter, because with just the heatsink that's the best coverage I can get due to how the GPU die is oriented ( see bottom of picuture). How's your spread look like?

 

I don't have a vise. I'll see if I can flatten it between two hammer heads, or something.

It's not really a question of whether I can double it, but rather if I should. I'll try one first, and if it brings down temps substantially, then I'll just stay with that.

 

ic33y, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say. As long as all of your GPU or CPU core has paste on it and all of that area touches the heatsink, it doesn't matter how much your heatsink is covered with paste. So, as long as the die is smaller than the heatsink, the heatsink size is really irrelevant (in terms of drawing heat away).

 

The way my GPU sits over the heatsink, all four corners of my GPU die are not covered by the heatsink due to how the GPU die is oriented, in fact one corner has quite a big chunk that isn't covered. You can see the spread of thermal paste in the pic I linked above (like 2 squares at 45 degree angles to one another). I thought I could get better temps by placing a larger copper shim in between the GPU and heatsink so the GPU is fully covered, but that was not the case since my temps didn't change at all.

 

If you haven't already (and have the time) I'd suggest just changing the thermal paste in your setup to compare to your previous temps. Then try it with the shim and new paste to see if it actually makes a difference.

 

Well, I went ahead and did the copper shim mod with some Tuniq tx-2, and wow! results were great. The last time I ran Furmark for 5 minutes, I hit 98C (I think). That was after undervolting from 1.05v to 0.95v.

With the copper shim, I maxed out at 92C after 5 minutes.

EDIT: well, my idle temps don't seem to have gone down. What does it mean, bad paste job?
EDIT2: I ran Furmark again, after 7mins, I was at 95. Still, it didn't go up as fast as before I put the shim. Should I do a re-paste?
EDIT3: Well, I pulled the heatsink out and did a re-paste. Idle temps are lower now by an average of 3C. Running Furmark for 10mins, I didn't go past 89C. Wow! I suspect I didn't tighten the screws properly. The paste spread out nice and even in most parts except in one corner where it was still a bit thick.

 

those are great results imanol. how do your temps compare to others with the same laptop?

i just bought 2 grams of Shin Etsu X23-7762 for $14 so that should give me more than enough to mess around with.

 

As far as I can tell, those who have done the copper shim mod hardly hit 90C anymore. Some even get better results and max out in the mid 80s. Those without the copper shim average at 95C, but there are reports of some hitting 100C. Ambient temp seems to play a role, especially without the copper shim.

Some additional info: Today, I ran Furmark again for 10 mins. This time I hit 91C. Ambient temp is 30C. Yesterday, when I ran Furmark, the airconditioning was on and ambient temp was around 24-25C.

 

So basically its just a sandwich of a copper shim? This is pretty much like the c90s Mod. How exactly does this "void" the warranty or does it?