Apple Refreshes MacBook and MacBook Pros, Releases New 13" MacBook Pro

Non-replaceable wouldn't normally be a good thing, but in this case I don't mind the trade-off for the significantly improved battery life.

 

Well, how long will this battery really last? And how much does the replacement cost?

 

Have to admit I would have liked to see an advance in graphics cards. Not sure if a 9400 is sufficient for that screen resolution for even moderate (high settings, no AA/AF) gaming. Wonder why they didn't go for the G 1xxx models of the Nvidia cards, instead of the 9600 512.

 

Apple began using improved displays on new Macbooks in April. I just wonder if the "new" 13" MBP will get a even better panel or it's just the same improved screen(s) that they began to use in April.

 

Anyone know how much are the price drops ?

They now have a 15" MBP that does not have 9600M --- I think thats new ?

17" MBPs are now finally becoming more affordable. I can get wit edu discount for $2300. Now if only it included a 3 year warranty ...

 

I think they said around 1000 charge cycles, or 5 years. Not sure what that means, if the battery is showing significant wear at that point, or something... I do know however that I have passed 200 cycle count on my MB after 7 months. At that rate, this new battery would wear out after 2.5 years for me.

 

As I see it, Apple has lost a great deal of versatility with the removal of the ExpressCard slot. I mean, one could put a something-in-one reader in there and swap it for something else when neccessary, but not anymore. Combined with the mind-boggling (hehe) number of USB ports, its not a very good proposition from an expansion PoV.

 

Have you taken into account that the newer battery has a higher capacity and hence will under go fewer charge cycles than a normal one ?

 

apple has some really talented designers and quality assurance engineers. their physical products are pretty good quality.

 

Lately, their quality has declined IMO from using a MBP from 3 generations ago compared to their last generation (haven't used the new refresh yet). But we'll see shortly... I'm disliking the path Apple is going in their newest generation. Like most people have complained about, I wish they didn't remove ExpressCard slot and added eSATA and kept the removable battery.

 

KernelPanic would disagree with you

 

^you can get warranty from ebay for 150$+-...

Anyway guys,why is non removable battery such a big deal for you? isn't it better to have 2x long vs 2x short...additional battery is a real pain during flights and @ airport security!

 

Why is it a pain during airport security ?

Anyway, removable battery has some pros: you can carry batteries around say if you want to use the laptop for 10+ hrs, you dont have the option with non-remoables. Also, people are not sure how long the non-removable batterues will last (ie whether apple's claims are true or not). Also, there will be loss of battery life with usage, so having a non-removable battery after 2.5 years that only lasts for 2 hrs might annoy people.

 

I think it is more an option of knowing you can go longer and not have to worry about your notebook's battery needing a charge if you happen to be using your notebook under a decent load.

Everybody's situation is different, and it is just one more option removed.

I really don't get the removal of the Express Card Slot.

 

Once I was even late from the flight BC they decided to "double-check" the battery.also,AFAIK,there are now rules that don't allow taking 2 batteries with you on the flight...

Judging on 17" reports,apple's numbers are quite accurate,+-10%

 

Is this globally ? That means we cannot take two laptops on flights ?

I never heard of restricting multiple batteries.

 

Some details.

http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html

 

Do customs give you hassles if you have two laptops?

 

Not that I know of.

 

Its basically a consumer "feature" as well as cutting off third party sources and keeping you in their ecosystem.

Also, on a 17inch model they should have WAY more ports.. there is no need to choose between SD or ExpressCard.. just put them both in. My SXPS16 has 3 video out ports (VGA, HDMI, DP).. but, i guess that makes it look ugly.

 

Man, if their 7hour claim is true... the 13in looks more and more appealing man.................

 

Or go check out an HP or Dell business machine. I'm not sure about the 13", but my 14" E6400 has no problem getting up to that battery life with a replaceable battery. I'm guessing the E4300 would be able to hit that mark as well.

 

Ah good, its only for checked

It would depend on the country. Intra US I travelled last year with 2 (or was it 3) laptops.

 

The problem is that the battery sticks out the back, which is something Apple will never allow its notebooks to have.

 

You can actually replace the battery yourself not that Apple really wants people doing that. But its not very hard. Also any Apple Store will replace the battery. I will take 7 hour battery life + smaller laptop for built-in battery any day. I don't keep laptops for more than a year anyway so I likely will never need to replace it. I see PC manufacturers are moving in the same direction.

 

While you are at it check out the user reviews for the new Latitudes on Dells site. Not very complimentary. One of the consulting companies I work with bought a bunch of them and has noting but issues. The HP business machines, by which I assume you mean the W series are quite good but are as much or more than MacBook Pro's.

 

This was true two generations ago... those macbooks were tanks.
It is NOT true with the unibody macs.

The unibody macs are breaking all over the place for us to really REALLY low-end stuff. (example, door closes behind user and lightly knocks unibody in a laptop case... grats on a pretty mac brick)

I consider our el-cheapo low-end $300 Dell refurbs to be of higher build quality than the entire previous run of $2000+ unibody macs. That would be because they have a lower "show-stopping" failure rate. This is sad beyond belief.

Understand, we have had more unibody failures than EVERY other laptop combined in the past YEAR.... that's Dell, Toshiba, ASUS, HP, and even previous generation Macs. Reminder, Unibody macs are not even close to a year old and our shop is still mostly PC/Windows with a few Mac holdouts...


As for "paying for thin and light", I disagree... you are paying for thin and extremely fragile with additional sacrifices for performance, heat, and the ability to actually replace the battery.

That being said, this is a new run...
I seriously hope they have addressed at least the fragility.

 

.....Zing!

 

I use an external battery good for 30 hours on long flights like to China, India, Germany etc. I know Apple's logic is that most people don't ever use the Express card slot and they would be right but I think it should still be in a Pro laptop. Now to get Express card slot you have to get the 17' which I think is odd. I have no need of an SD slot. They also removed the 9600 vid card option on the $1699 15 inch. Again most people won't care but I do. But then I bought my current MBP Unibody for $1699 months ago so I will stick with what I've got for awhile. Put 4 GB of ram in it and a 500GB hard drive for minimal additional cost.

No because that is incorrect.

Your not seeing it because your statements are incorrect. The OS and most apps are designed for multiple procs or cores from the start and have been for years. This is because Apple has had multi proc machines for years. if you don't want a Mac don't buy one but constructing a strawhorse and knocking it down is not useful. Unless you need it to feel better about what you have. Neutered cache? No. That is evident. The minimum speed even on the 13 inch MBP is 2.26 and it goes up from there. Even if you were correct OS X makes dramatically better use of proc, cache, memory, and disk and network I/O than Windows.

Yeah I'm not buying your story. I've worked extensively with other IT architects from Motorola, Apple, Cisco, and Oracle as well as smaller companies in the last couple years and all of those companies have hundreds (or more) MacBook Pros including Unibodies and none of them are having those problems. There are no performance or heat issues with the Unibodies. These are people who like me travel heavily all the time which puts alot of wear and tear on laptops. These are also companies that dumped Dell for HP laptops because of the extremely high failure rate out of the box and in use. Your statements do not wash with people who know better.

 

Does anyone know if the RAM is user upgradeable WITHOUT voiding your warranty? I know you can at the very least dismantle the thing, but I wouldn't want to lose my warranty for a simple RAM upgrade and I'm not willing the pay the Apple premium on a CTO for RAM.

I keep my laptops for 2 yrs and IMHO the non-removeable battery is no deal breaker. I'd gladly take 6-7 hrs of battery life in exchange for not having a bulky battery sticking out the back/bottom. LiPo batteries aren't completely new technology and they definitely have better power density and recharge cycle rating compared to the Li-Ion battery cells used in most current laptops. LiPo has been big for use in R/C helicopters for the last year since they offer a lot more capacity in the same size/weight.

The real deal-breaker for me personally is that there is still no HDMI output. I use my laptop as my primary media player and not having HDMI just sucks. Why should I have to deal with a DVI dongle + stereo cable I've seen the 3rd party HDMI adapters, but the port on the MBs don't output audio as far as I know.

 

Of course it is. Apple provides instructions on how to do it with your laptop as well as the hard drive. Everybody charges too much for ram btw. It's how they make extra profit during the sale. Crucial and OWC are good places for ram. 4 GB is the sweet spot for OS X ram right now. Like most Unix based OS' OSX is very good at using memory when it needs it and releasing it when it doesn't. I typically use around 1.5 to 2 GB of my available 4 GB of memory. menu meters is a free download the puts a proc and memory usage stat in your menu bar. Shows both cores and how much memory is being used and how much is free. if you have 2 GB of ram of course you will use less, usually around 1 GB.

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/Apple_MacBook_MacBook_Pro/Upgrade

 

They really should have HDMI. Both for connecting to LCD displays as well as for the small minority of users who connect their laptop to their TV and projection units for presentations. Mini-Display port isn't doing anyone any favors. The Mac Mini should especially have HDMI as it makes a perfect Home media center, far better than Apple TV. You are correct that the HDMI adapters do not output sound.

 

Thanks for the info snookie! I'm not looking to get a new lappy until after Christmas time this year and the new 13" MBP is very tempting with the price drop and better battery if I can get past the lack of HDMI. My current Dell XPS M1330 really has me stuck on the 13" form factor...not too big, not too small with decent performance. If it had HDMI, it'd be a no brainer to finally take the Mac plunge. We shall see...there's obviously a lot of time until the end of the year so let's see what the PC camp can offer up design wise.

 

Where did I say the operating system isn't multi core optimized?

Define, "most," apps?

And no, I didn't knock it down because I never built it up in the first place.

And yes, on a Q9000, the cache is halved to 3MB per core (The Q9000 is effectively a P7350 x 2) and I would gladly see 2.66-3.06 dual cores vs. the Q9000 and the trade-offs included.

If you look at some of my past posts, I'm insanely objective about Mac hardware as I am with all hardware. I don't know these companies personally. I don't have a vested interest outside of a 1-3yr lifespan for warranty purposes. I don't know Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Michael Dell and they sure as heck don't know me. I am also a proponent of Apple's decision to emphasize size/weight/battery life first and mold the hardware around it.

I've used Macs probably long before you probably ever did from the Mac Plus to the SE/30 to the 7100/66 to the 5300CE all the way to my last desktop Mac in 2005 which was a DP Tower. I still have my 30" Screen to this day and I won't give up my Apple Extended Keyboard II's ever. I use my OWC ADB -> USB adapter.


I'm glad you like Apple hardware/software but seriously.... It's not like you have an Apple shield with a big picture of Steve Jobs on it and a sword with, "Apple Forever!" along the blade.

 

Snookie, little tip for you, use the edit button or multi-quote.

Secondly, your own experience does not negate the validity of others. Try to remember that.

 

I also own an XPS M1330 that I'm looking to replace around Christmas time - this new 13" MBP as well as the just announced Dell Studio 14z have caught my eye. The 14z has HDMI like the M1330 but also has a higher res and ExpressCard slot, those are the main advantages it has over the MBP as well as price, but these 13" MBPs are very appealing. I used to own an iMac and an iBook but I might be getting the Apple bug again after a couple of years away

 

I see a few people mention about their disappointment of the loss of ExpressCard.
I wanted that to go away for a long time.
What do you guys use for ExpressCard?
3G modem?

 

That kinda kills it for me too.......HP can toss one on the dv2.....but Apple can't even be bothered to add one?

 

Don't put any hope on this; they will never put HDMI in their products 'cos they have already adopted and heavily believe in DisplayPort.

 

If you can wait until after Christmas for a new laptop, atleast wait until early 2010 for dual core Arrandale (Nehalem). It will be a better upgrade from your M1330 than to go to a current C2D.

 

I'm kind of wondering why the 17" MBP doesn't have as powerful a processor option as the 15"?

 

good points. I love OSX and apple care, but not feeling it regarding the apple price premium and hardwares.

 

I've always wondered that about Apple's notebooks......

 

Are you claiming to know better or for someone else?

I've worked on more laptops and even more macbooks than most people here have ever seen.

I was impressed with the build quality of the previous generation, but this one is NOT good... and there was at least one other IT professional who backed me up from here last time...

It seems you are the minority and out of your league.

 

That is amusing. A desktop support drone telling me I am out of my league.

You are unaware of many things. I'm not going to the effort to correct each one. I will say that my first Mac was a 128k in 1984 since you think that is important. Not everyone here are college and high school kids whose chief concerns are cost and games.
If you read my other posts or even the ones in this thread you will see that I am objective about Apple.
Check you proc information first because you are wrong on multiple counts. I don't think you understand how this level cache works either. Even if you were right the real world difference is very minimal.

If they are wrong then obviously it does. Lots of incorrect statements by people who clearly don't know what they are talking about. instead they post what they would like to believe. Prove me wrong on the facts of what I am saying not that you don't like me saying them with some vague comment.

Apple doesn't make gaming laptops. Thats a pretty small group of buyers they have no interest in. The 9600 is fine for a pretty fair number of games though.

eSata. As much as I like FW800 I would like to see eSata built in.

The main advantage of the MB over the Studio 14z is that it is not a plasticky pice of junk from a company with one of the worst tech support reps in the business. That and it runs OS X, Linux, and Windows either from a boot disk and/or VMware or Parallels. Developers and other IT types like that.

Not sure what you mean. They both go up to 3.06ghz.

 

Another crippled notebook by Apple. It has the looks but nothing else. Man, those days when MacBooks were something special are over. Way over.

 

Pardon me? Speaking of "incorrect statements by people who"...

1) Graphics cards are not exclusively used by gamers There are people calling themsevles engineers, designers... And most customers, who consider buying a 17'' notebook, I suspect, do need better graphic cards for video editing, 3D CADs, etc.
2) Gaming laptop community isn't small at all, you are mistaken. Of course the actual reason why Apple may not consider them as potential buyers is that gamers aren't very likely to pay extra for OS X, since there aren't many modern games that can run under it. And, on the other hand, Apple obviously doesn't want to encourage customers to switch to Windows.

 

May I remind you all this is a discussion about Apple Refreshes MacBook and MacBook Pros, Releases New 13" MacBook Pro. Thank you.

Johnny T - NBR Moderation Team

 

In the review it states:

Maybe I'm misreading what goes with what notebook or something, but I'm pretty sure that's they way it reads.

 

That's a mistake if you configure a 17" pro on the apple website it can also go to a 3.06 GHz dual core.