Are you willing to send complaints? (IFL90)

I want to see what people are thinking about this whole situation regarding the delays of IFL90 notebooks.

I do understand that complaints probably wouldn't solve the shortage problem. However, why don't we, at least, let the Company know that we are now tired of waiting?

 

I will be emailing Compal directly. A 2 month delay in 'estimated' delivery dates is atrocious no matter what the excuse.

I expect if enough people who are generally upset with the wait email them they will make some sort of concession. They are bigger than Dell after all.

 

I might send a complaint to Compal, but I don't think it will make much of a difference.
Tim

 

I don't think they'll do anything considering that they don't deal directly with the end user.

 

Well couple people e-mailed them right? Lets see if they even respond

 

I dealt directly with PowerNotebooks on the delay. I wasn't complaining more expressing concern and we treated each other professionally.

I don't expect compensation.

 

Well yeah I meant 'Compal' when I mentioned 'the Company'

so I was asking if you are going to send complaints to Compal not to the resellers

sorry for the confusion

 

Why do you keep saying its been two months? The first ESTIMATION was in late June, its now nearing late July, thats only a month at most if you do the math.

 

Okay guys keep this thread on topic.

I sent Compal an email. Basically I told them I was disappointed with the delays and wanted to know what was causing them. I will post a response if I get one.
Tim

 

what dah...my original post along with the one i quoted got deleted? i quess we cant joke around in here =\

 

There is a difference between joking around and talking about killing people in a terrorist attack.
Tim

 

I think it won't make much of a difference at all since compal could not care less about e-mails from end end-users they don't even deal with. If anyone is to be complaining, or as a more logical way, 'expressing concern', it should/could/would be the resellers as they are the end-users as far as compal and whoever does the resales (bizcom I think in the case of USA and abouts) is concerned.

Also, sending e-mails with rants just could get us a very different effect than the expected one (actually, what do people expect at all when they send rants? that all of a sudden the company will send them a laptop or whatever merchandise they rant about magically from under the desk of wonders? i'ts not like they're hiding them away to punish their possible users for being naughty, I'm reasonably sure they're doing whatever they can to meet ends for the demands as they have their own win in that as well, quite the basic one at that as regards their existance as a company on the market) - what is to probably happen is that the e-mail address would get /dev/null'ed and then whoever wished to contact compal for possibly creative reasons (such as for example opensource driver development/support or the like, hardware sales, etc) through the public e-mail path would get routed the same way as a possible 'mindless' ranter.

Just my 5p.

 

FYI I didn't send Compal a rant and I don't recommend that anyone else do that either. I basically told them I was upset about all the delays to the resellers and asked them to explain why we were experiencing such long delays.

I don't have much faith that my email will do anything, but I want to at least send a message to Compal that they upset their resellers customers when they have shipping delays that have lasted well over a month.
Tim

 

ok I will explain this again.

first estimated SHIPPING DATE: mid June

most recent estimated SHIPPING DATE: mid August


That equates to a two month wait.

 

It's not as if Compal is intentionally causing delays. It's not like they're laughing maniacally behind some corporate desk, "HAHAHA, you have to wait for your laptops!". I'm sure they're doing all they can at this point, long as the wait may be.

 

I guess it was my mistake. I don't want anyone to send rants or complaints that are offensive. What I intended to say was that we should just let them know how tiring it is to hear one delay after another.

I don't know if it's true or not, but I heard that Compal was delaying it continuouslly because it chose to manufacture Dell's models and be friendly with Dell instead of using the parts to build IFL90s due to financial issues.

 

exactly my point, vagabond. so perhaphs yes you might've taken it the wrong way when I mentioned about ranting, and I was not referring to you at that either, what I mean is they're prolly doing the best/good they can, and even despite the effects seem to prove that is not enough, that's as good as it gets so telling them you're dissapointed or so will hardly surprise them "ooh? so people haven't gotten those two last shipments? Joe, check those lorries for me could it be Jake's DUI again?" heh ;] oh and dui is not a fun topic, and I'm well aware of that the reason I use it here in this example is an emphasis, say it's that fluorescent bit in the picture I'm painting portraing the situation

edit: had it been also true they're doing chores for dell, well, I guess you'd have to look at it this way - keeping financial security of the company by supplying the chores' requests first allows compal to produce their personal machine at cheaper prices - taking longer, but everybody wins that way one way or the other.

Btw it's quite strange tbh, as the compals are literally almost flooding over the european markets, teh VBI versions that is. It's the non-vbi that has so much issues. Funky. Could it be intels hands at that - could it be that compal sorts things out as a helper company at most? Meaning, if intel has hands in the VBI programme, they build the VBI's quicker and more, same with DELL, and then the non-vbi are just the lowest at the ladder? Something to ponder I guess, tho prolly not here as that'd be a wee bit offtopic I suppose

Cheers! And sorry if I wrecked any havoc entioning rants, no offence eh? ;] orait.

 

Right. If we complain, we have to be careful about how we come across. Again, I'm talking from experience. I've had the most direct and colorful experience with that when I was a teenager working in a convenience store. The customer is always right, right? Not really. Some customers would just be unreasonable. The funniest thing was when a customer asked for something unreasonable and I denied their request. They'd get red, start huffing and puffing and would request to talk to the manager. I would gladly go into the backstore to get the owner and enjoy seeing the customer being denied their unreasonable request from the owner of the store. Some customers are just not worth trying to please. Sounding unreasonable is a sure way to be labeled as being unworthy of any attempt at conciliation.

The same kind of calculation happened when I was working as an engineer. Some clients were just not worth the effort. Ranting or whiny clients are not appealing.

If I were to write to Compal one thing I'd make sure to do is convey how excited I am about the machine and looking forward to using it. For sure, displeasure about the delays should be expressed but an overly negative email does little to prompt a positive response.

 

Well now they're sending people the WRONG laptops and xotic and powernotebooks aren't bothering to check if it is an FL-90 or an IFL-90 before they send them out.

I think sending a complaint is the right thing to do as a consumer at this point. I feel like a bit of a doormat just sitting here waiting and waiting for them to likely end up sending me the wrong laptop don't you?

 

If I get the wrong laptop from Sager through my order at PowerNotebooks, then I'll complain to Sager and PowerNotebooks about getting the wrong laptop. In the meantime, my only complaint is the delay.

 

The person who sends you the laptop is your reseller afaik. So you have them and only them to blame for sending you the machine itself. Also, mind you the dates of arrival were estimates, at best. So I guess there really isn't anything you can bring out as solid 'sue' proof out here into the case regarding compal's scheduling.

 

Not necessarily. You can order the Sager NP2090 (which is a Compal IFL90) from Sager itself or from other resellers like PowerNotebooks or XoticPC. A Sager is built and shipped by Sager even if you order it though PowerNotebooks or XoticPC.

 

Hmm. Seems to me it's not late august yet. That's only the shipping estimate for ONE of the three screens. So that would put it again, nearer to a month/month and a half. Secondly, you sure complain a lot. Wanting money because of a late ESTIMATED ship date, now you are worried about getting the wrong laptop? Seriously. Cancel your order. Seems like no matter what happens you WILL find a way to complain about it. If you really like the laptop, stick to it, no one is holding a gun to your head telling you to get this laptop. Go order a 1520, maybe you'll get something free from them.

You've had tons of chances to cancel your order, so I'm guessing you just complain to complain. Either the compal has stuff you want, or you dont like Dell as much. Either way, you are going to wait for the Compal. We all know it, and we all can cancel orders.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble and your view of the world through rose colored glasses, but I believe the consumers have a right to complain when they invest over one thousand dollars on a product and then to preorder so that they will have it for when they need it only for the date of arrival to be continuosuly pushed back, for rather foolish reasons. If a company gives an ETA it should at least come close to it, right now they are a month+ off which is bad business. So I'm sorry your wrong he has every right to be pissed the hell off, whether he cancels his order or not.

 

If you want to complain, complain to your reseller, not to us.

 

Also, I guess the jist of what we're trying to say is in no particular need trying to be defensive of one way or the other, basically, what (at least I am and from my understanding some others here too, you know who you are if I'm right) we're trying to say here is okay cool, but getting 'pissed off' is not really going to hurt anyone else than you and your surroundings, have you problems piling up the emotions inside, which can't either be too healthy anyway for yourself.

The choice is simple - wait, or go somewhere else. Patience is a virtue There's a reason you chose compal in the first place anyway and it is not as if compal is forcing you to stay with them - you didn't actually pay the money did you? It's a pre-order afaik. If you did pay and got a written contract as to when the delivery will take place, by all means, take action if you feel used and feel like it's worth the case.

Just don' see much point stirring up the storm in the local glass of water which would be the forums over here. I don't mind discussion, but after some time, it's for it to have some point/direction to it. So far I fail to see this ones point apart from being a place to vent off piled up emotions. Go take a walk in the summer sun. Post it to your blog. Do whatever needs to be done and you find justifying, but why tell the whole forum world about it? I reckon it started off as a simple question, hinting at a certain venting at that from what I've seen and that's how I've seen it, but it seems the steam is getting caught in some middle pipe behind a valve and it has no way to escape, bursting the pipe any time soon. Let's keep the bursting to the minimum here shall we? I tend to not cause trouble for myself and others if I can - life's funny at that enoughly.

Cheers!

ps. I haven't slept much lately so sorry if I sound a bit rough about the edges, not my intention at all here unless explicitly stated/not accounted for

 

Yes we did pay up front when we pre-ordered. It was how we held our place in line. My payment was approximately $1700. Given a 5% money market rate, I estimate I'm out $14.17 of interest over the 2 months I paid. (((1700 X .05) /12)*2). Donald has indicated that these funds are held in reserve and they don't collect float on them so there is no benefit to Power Notebooks.

It's unfortunate, but $15 isn't going to keep me from feeding my kids.

 

so what are the disadvantages of getting the G1S?

 

For me the G1S appearance isn't appropriate in a business setting. It forces you to buy what they sell and changing from stock is expensive and may void the warranty. I don't need the mouse, backpack and OS so I'd rather not pay for them. The warranty is not as good and I need more from the battery.

On the plus side there are extras like HDMI and E-SATA ports. Performance appears to be a little better.

 

I initially did not like the look of the G1S but it does not look as bad in person as it does on the web. The one thing that is a big problem for me is battery life. I've seen multiple numbers quoted ranging from 2.5 hours to 2 hours. That's rather short. I know undervolting the CPU and possibly underclocking the GPU might bring that up to a reasonable number but the initial numbers for the IFL90 are already higher than that and whatever tweaks you do to a G1S you can most likely do to an IFL90 so the end result is that the IFL90 has better battery life. I'm often enough in situations where I need to rely on a battery that it matters to me.

It also comes with stuff I don't want (like a Vista license) but that would not stop me from buying it. The real problem is battery life.

 

Thank you both for sharing. On the waranty issue though Donsell, I customized on Xotic with the same or close set up as myt Compal and the 2-year warranty was still available.

 

There are some components, like the cpu, if you change it voids the warranty. If you changed the cpu Xotic maybe supplying the warranty which I'd feel better about anyway.

When I did my comparison changing from the 160Gb, 5200rpm drive to the 120Gb, 7200rpm drive was the same price as if I got it on New Egg, and the dealer kept the 160Gb drive! Xotic may be more reasonable.

So did you make the switch?

 

You knew it wasnt a sure release date, and preordered and paid anyway. You in no way HAD to. You are out that imaginary 15 dollars because you decided to wait, knowing that the wait could be longer than expected.

 

Please read his post, he isnt even complaining, just stating facts.... sheesh

 

I was responding to imachine's question asking if we'd paid or not. We have. I also wanted to respond to the post about losing out on interest. If you read what I said, in my opinion the lost interest isn't a big deal.

If you read my posts in this thread we're in agreement.

 

has anyone received a response from compal?

 

Do you actually believe there's going to be a response from Compal?

 

Not even an automated reply?

 

No reply!!!

 

Compal doesn't talk to us peasants and serfs.

 

I think they're too busy getting the orders sorted to answer petty emails

Not bad, come to think of it - also you're not buying from compal but from a reseller so you have no claim to it... eh Not calling resellers liars either here, but the only reason you claim compal is slow at sending out laptops is because your reseller told you so... For all you know, compal could've sent those laptops out there ages ago and the only one who's slow is the reseller itself. Hardly, given the circumstances, as you'd probably seen other resellers offering the merchandise had that been the case, but yeah, just trying to paint a pic here as to why compal doesn't seem to be doing something wrong/strange by not replying. I'd be positively surprised had they replied at all nonetheless, but they'd prolly tell you just what I did here. You have to remember when you're buying non-vbi, youre not buying Compal, but whatever brand they're rebranded as. And that's the brand/company you probably would want to be bugging (which I nonetheless advise against, read my previous posts as to why I think it's reasonably useless at that).

As a matter of fact, I don't even know if you're buying pure compal (not hardware-wise, legal-wise) and not some intel-related stufflies when it comes to VBI, but that's another story.

Cheers ;]

 

Compal is working as fast as they can to get these units out to us.

Complaining about the delay is a good exercise to get it off your chest, but since Compal is not intentionally delaying the shipments out of some sort of evil glee there is nothing they can do that they are not already doing. Therefore your complaints are not going to end up on the Production Manager's desk and cause an "awakening" that will produce any different result than history will disclose.

Therefore your best bet is to write out your complaint, get it all off your chest, and then realize there was a good reason to invent the "Delete" button.

 

Donald, with all due respect, there are good reasons for people to complain to Compal.

For the longest time Compal could not tell its resellers what kind of graphic card would be in the IFL90. That's a communication problem.

Then they screwed up on shipping the IFL90 to the US on time. I understand and read your post about why that happened but my opinion of the event is still negative. The job of a major manufacturer like Compal is to plan for contingencies. I realize all the planning in the world cannot protect against all contingencies but then when things fall apart, the party unable to deliver has to be ready to get "egg in the face". (Yes, talking from experience here.) Shipping dates were delayed and delayed. Also, judging from the feedback we got from the resellers, it seems that Compal is keeping everything very obscure. You've said a few times that you won't know how many units you get until they are in the warehouse. Er... what?!? Compal (or Bizcom or whoever is responsible for shipping) cannot tell you how many units they are going to ship you? That's a production and then a communication problem.

Then there's the problem of the FL90 units that were shipped instead of the IFL90. This is something that caught PowerNotebooks and XoticPC by surprise. That's a communication problem.

There's a theme emerging here: Compal has problems with communication. I think it is totally appropriate for people who want to buy Compal laptops to convey to Compal how annoyed they are at the way Compal has failed lately to communicate adequately with their representatives in the US market. While it is true that the resellers are Compal's customers on paper, the fact remains that if it were not for us buying those laptops from the resellers Compal would not be able to sell its own line of laptops. It may be argued that it is the job of the resellers to convey to Compal the state of the US market (including the fact that people are currently unhappy) but, again with all due respect, it is my opinion that whatever the resellers have done to convey this has not worked yet. Moreover, (talking from experience) there's a difference between having an intermediary telling you "those X number of people are not happy" and having those people contact you directly. The former is abstract whereas the latter is very concrete. Some people don't understand things in the abstract and need to be informed in a more concrete way of the extent of their failure.

There is only one thing that worries me about emails to Compal and this is something I've voiced at least twice on this forum: complainers have to be careful about the tone of their complaint and must stick to facts. For instance, if they talk about how long they've been waiting, they must carefully look at their calendar and not say they've waited for 3 months if they've really only waited for 2 months. Exaggeration is the fastest way to completely destroy the legitimacy of one's position. I've also suggested that it would be a good idea to convey excitement regarding the laptop rather than being wholly negative in the complaint.

I wholeheartedly support the use of the "delete" button for those who can't contain themselves but otherwise I think complaints are warranted.

 

Or get an online petition for people to sign and post that to compal in one significant and well and culturally written e-mail including the link itself. And do make the petition titled, say, 'Do you think compal should work on their communication issues which came up during the deployment of IFL90 series in the USA?'. Well maybe not only in the USA, but it seems Europe doesn't have the problem - and most of us get VBi's anyway.

Cheers!

 

Lemur - excellent post.

I'm a bit concerned with Donald's post because it leaves the impression that customers should not complain when service is unavoidably inadequate - that it's pointless except to get it off their chests. Customers pay for a service and have every right to complain if such service is not satisfactory, regardless of cause. More importantly, his post leaves the impression that he, as a reseller and customer of Compal, is not going to complain.

I understand that voicing our frustrations to Compal will, in all likelihood, fall on deaf hears and even it were heard, would not reduce the delay. But they might refine the way they operate (w/ better communication) if they know they've customers who care enough to call, write, etc. I'd say most laptop buyers are repeat buyers, no?

One thing is for sure. If no one complains, nothing is going to change.

 

What about not charging a customer until the order has shipped? I ordered a Dell back in mid June and won't receive it until mid August. My credit card has not been charged yet and I don't expect it to be charged until my laptop leaves the Dell warehouse.

Sure I'm a bit upset that it's taking so long to order a laptop, but my options include canceling my current order and ordering a different model or taking my business to another vendor (offline or online).

How is your situation different?

 

The situation is different because the IFL90s required pre-payment, cancellation and refund is only a phone call or email away though.

 

Lemur, you have some good points. I'm pretty sure the resellers as well as their customers are getting the cold shoulder from Compal. The one thing to remember is that money talks and that whatever order makes Compal the most money will always come first.

It sucks even more for the resellers, in my opinion, because just like us, all they can do is wait. But while waiting, more and more pre-ordered customers and potential customers are being lost.

I just hope the quality of the notebooks is a lot better than the quality of their business. You're right, communication has been poor...nearly unacceptable in my opinion. But the only thing we can really do is cancel all of our orders and buy Asus.

 

I would be willing to send complaints, but to be honest I think Donald has the right idea in this case. Compal isn't the kind of company that knows how to deal with a single person. That isn't what they do, they sell the resellers, whether it's Dell or Sager or Powernotebooks, they deal with other companies.

You can send them all the well written complaints you want, but they aren't going to care unless their resellers are the ones making complaints. So if you need to complain, then what you need to do is first tell your reseller, and if you really want to tell Compal, then send them email telling them that you have told your reseller, and that you wish to inform them about it as well.


That's how I see it anyways.

 

As above ...

As stated in that thread, at least a few people believe the resellers should be accountable and talking with their suppliers.

(You can read more about that issue starting midway down the page with my post and continuing for several pages: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=140238&page=92 )

Probably, there is no intent to defraud or mislead us. That's not the issue. The issue is that Compal the supplier is not getting out enough units to their resellers, "and we are not being told why". What we are told comes from the resellers, and what they are told is what the company allows them to know. If the resellers are not willing to make demands for accurate and specific information by holding their suppliers accountable, how can they take full payment from us for a product they can only make predictions about while we wait, and wait, and wait. Why would you allow them to? Is that good old American business?

Above, Donald is somewhat right for the wrong reasons. If you absolutely 'must have' this computer, then you will have to wait. But saying nothing along the way says to the company and reseller that you accept the delay as a consumer standard. Every time we do nothing, the standards become lower and lower. The corporate execs probably sit there and figure, "no complaints, no worries, delay is OK and doesn't hurt us". If we say nothing, do nothing now, someday, they may convince us that its OK to make us pay a fee for 'privilege' of waiting!

American consumerism has really changed over the past 50 years or longer. We've seemed to have lost the recognition that our money had more than a dollar value. There were consumer ethics and traditions we've seemed to have lost to apathy. While Compal and many other corporations we buy from do not adhere to our standards, most of the American resellers have a choice how they interpret, recognize, and act with regard to the customers role in the deal. Perhaps Americans have an inflated sense of entitlement, but for me, it shows that our standards once demonstrated higher expectations; we expected and received quality from beginning to end of purchase. Now, the 30-90 return policies at most stores only shows we expect to buy crap and return it.

Anyway, complaining is a form of protesting, so, why protest?

• [*]To get information, to inform yourself and others and for all to be able to make better choices.
  [*]To act upon feelings of helplessness; thus to be less helpless by taking action, doing something about the issue, through protest and complaint.
  [*]Protest and complaint is venting, and venting can bring about change by helping other people become accountable.
  [*]To expose the vulnerabilities of the corporations.
  [*]Complaints increase the visibility of the issue.
  [*]To express solidarity with others, that the issue is not isolated to a few people and cannot be ignored.
  [*]To protect consumer rights and consumer standards for yourself and future generations.
  [*]To see how the corporation responds to your dissent.
  [*]To defend yourself, your rights and protections. To join with others in that defense.
  [*]Because whoever can complain, and does not, becomes an accomplice in the act, and the apathy.
  [*]To express your economic power in a constructive way.
  [*]To compel the company to react to you.
  [*]Because without protest, nothing changes.
  [*]Because when you do nothing, something will happen anyway and you may dislike the results even more.
  [*]To influence the undecided to join you.
  [*]To have fun.

"All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke

Perhaps with regard to this issue, doing nothing allows corporations to do anything and everything, with or without your consent or knowledge. The real issue for me is, to whom should I complain, the corporation, the resellers, or both? Who is accountable to me as their customer?

One version of Pastor Martin Niemöller's well quoted speech in the 1960's:

In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak up.​

Perhaps this post is a bit extreme, but the point is simple enough. If you don't speak up for yourself and others, who will? While at least one poster above says that complaining will do nothing, in the end, I say that by doing nothing, you achieve what you deserve.

"The trouble with most of us is that we would rather be ruined by praise than saved by criticism." Norman Vincent Peale

Just look at the results of the poll ... "I don't think it'll make much difference", about 75% of the votes. And doing nothing will make a difference you would prefer?