Intel-TongFang QC7 (Element/Fusion 15/MAG-15/Vapor 15 Pro)

Can you send a DM with a screenshot and also check the amount you were charged via whichever method you used? Are you located in Connecticut? I'm quite certain I've located your order and the captured funds as well as the order shows $1,599 even.

 

DM sent (at least I think ? I used the "create a conversation" option"), thanks for your help

 

@Eluktronics do you update the BIOS, control center etc yourselves on future to be shipped out models?

Also do you have similar/identical adapted power/fan profiles as mentioned by XMG in this thread or do you use the Intel standard ones?

 

Hi guys, I've been eyeing this laptop for the longest time now and like for what it is and what it isn't. However, I'd like to get your opinion on how much of an upgade it will turn out to be given my current machine.

I'm using a little over a year old ASUS GM501GS (i7-8750H, GTX1070), I'm thinking it'll bee a minor upgrade at most, given the improvements on the CPU and GPU. What do you guys think? Still vetting if the lack of GSYNC on the MAG-15 if it comes out as a sidegrade overall.

TIA!

 

Outside of a smaller footprint, battery size, and much better build quality you wouldnt really be gaining much of anything.

 

Well and the battery on the MAG is a bit bigger. For some reason ppl all over the Internet are really hyped over a bigger battery on a gaming laptop. I've never gamed on battery so it's not something I care about, but if I were you I wouldn't replace the Asus. You won't gain anything noticeable I think.

 

@CreatureCore @mkoev Thanks for the inputs! I was afraid of hearing that, but it is what is is, I guess.

 

The bigger battery isn’t geared to game longer unplugged.

In fact as strange as this may be to a few out there, gaming laptops are meant to be gamed on while plugged in and unplugged when you need it.

It’s also why you never see me talking about game time on battery. That’s a quick way to shorten the lifespan of your battery with that rapid discharge.

 

Does Mag 15 or XMG Fusion 15 available for Canadian Market?

I am trying to buy this but amazon said it doesn't deliver to Canada.



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What is your guys opinion of switching from 1070 max q laptop to this mag 15? currently have an alienware m15 r1 and I need an RTX gpu for some machine learning applications I'm working on... I only like laptops with ports (especially power plug) in the back.

 

Honestly if you need rtx performance you need to build/buy a PC. A desktop rtx 2060 will outperform a 2080 laptop GPU. And the 2060 desktop gpu is pretty bad at rtx as is.

 

The desktop 2060 will not outperform laptop 2080. They are on par imo.
Also desktop 2060 low rtx performance is mainly affected by low RT cores.
Since desktop and laptop equivalents have same RT cores. The 2070 laptop shoudn't be that bad. Need some opinion on this

 

A thin machine like the MAG does not seem to be the best choice for ML testing. True, RTX 2070 is very powerful, but let's say you want to train your ML model with 50 000 images to recognize cats better. How long until it starts trottling like crazy? I work in ML environment and the cooling we require for our setups is quite significant. I suspect that the 75C degree limit will hit you hard when your model is in the middle of training.

 

Yeah - the types of applications where the RTX accelleration in this laptop would be helpful are things like: 3d modelling in z-brush, or other types of AI assisted video rendering / production / creative type things.

Whereas if you are training large datasets then that is best done in the cloud / on a server somewhere. That you connect to from your laptop over vpn / ssh and then the work is getting done remotely.

 

Had to sadly cancel my order today. Apparently there is no interest from anyone in buying a 2 months old Alienware M15r1. Even when you sell at it 30% cheaper than new price from dell. People just lowballing me with 1000,- offers.. And I don't want to be in situation where I have two laptops haha

 

Hi @XMG

I am testing the power consumption of the Fusion 15 and it seems playing bigbuckbunny 1080p 30fps mp4 video using vlc 3.0.8 uses 10.5W of power.

I tested the same on a Razer Blade 2019 (same cpu but with rtx2060) and the power consumption with the same conditions is 8.5W.

Any idea what might be using those 2 extra watts?

The only difference between the 2 devices is that the Razer is running off the SSD while the Fusion off a USB stick but it does NOT have any SSD.
I need to test whether the usb stick and the mobo circuitry it requires might be taking all that power, especially in idle.

The CPU package power is similar so I doubt it's cpu/igpu. The kdb backlight is off on both and the power plan is set to powersaving.
Screen brightness is set to minimum.

Razer blade also idles at 5.5W, while Fusion 15 idles at 7.2W.

Again, same CPU Package Power (about 0.7W) on both devices according to hwinfo, so it's unlikely to be CPU/iGPU...

I will try using an ssd in the Fusion, but I doubt that could be the cause...anyway, never say never

Any hint is appreciated


@ all mag15/fusion15 owners:
Would you mind reporting your hwinfo (dis)charge rate with the same settings as above?

 

Which gpu does yours have?

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It's more of APPLYING the tensor cores rather than training. The training will still be in the cloud.

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@eddi3x3x3, I see. The GPU power limit and the slim form factor are a bit troublesome I think. You do need higher GPU clock rate for ML, right? You can always return it if it does not work, and if you can just spare 1600 USD to run some tests

 

In other words, an Alienware m15 r1 with 2080 or 2070 would throttle less and give better performance?

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Honestly I have no idea. I am not at all familiar with this Dell of yours. I am inclined to agree with CreatureCore saying that bulding a desktop PC is a better idea. Happy to help with Server suggestions I can always ask the coders in the ML department for a laptop recommedation based on what you want to do with it

 

Go for it but I need something that is less than 0.8" thick, less than 5 lbs and I prefer having ports on the back (mag 15, Alienware m15, Lenovo y740 as examples).

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I have the RTX 2060 in mine.

 

Yea I'm selling mine around $850 - $900 and it has a 1070 Max q lol our laptops won't be worth much soon. Everyone likes the new design despite the soldered ram and everything. I don't know why you'd want the mag15 over the m15 r1 tbh, it's an amazing machine. Only reason I'm even changing is cause I want the tensor cores and I might just buy another m15

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New design is ugly and so many steps back.. only keyboard is better on the r2.

I'm trying to sell mine for 1600 Euro, which is 30% cheaper than new prices here. Yet people think I'm a charity and going to sell it at 60% cheaper lol.

Alienware is great, but the keyboard and footprint of mag 15 is just so much better. Also 20% bigger battery, because mine had 7% wear level out of box...

 

You can always buy a new battery for it, what frames do you get on your 2060 vs the games presented by Bob of all trades and ownordisown? You might have better performance with the m15 without the thermal throttle and you do at least keep a numpad on the m15.

Im on the same boat in terms of thinking whether to upgrade to this or getting a refurbished or used m15 r1 with 2080 Max q tbh as I agree the footprint on this is smaller and the keyboard looks like it would be an upgrade BUT consider if you aren't going to get any better performance than you are now, it might not be worth it for you as most laptops with 2060 aren't Max q and can be overclocked really close to 2070 max q levels (assuming performance is even a concern for you). If you just care about portability then yes go for it.

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We do offer shipping to Canada via our website.

 

I hope they decide to create a mag 17 with a 2080 Max q with electroboost. With a larger chassis I imagine they would be able to cool it better but I hope they go for a 17" QHD panel @120 hz rather than those fast 1080p screens. The 17" version could accommodate better speakers and a numpad too. I'm sure they can get the weight at around 4.5 lbs to if this 15" chassis is anything to go on.

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Yeah a 17 inch might be nice for some. But I think it would be really sad not to first be implementing those missing features in the existing chassis. Before advancing anything else like that. They were mux switch and usb-c incoming charging. Which does not require anything outside of tweaks / changes to the existing mainboard design - all on the PCB. No new tooling etc. required for those.

 

I don't think they are going to implement either of those features in the current 15" chassis. I did find it funny how XMG said somewhere that it cannot deny or confirm that there is a 17" chassis along the way and every time I see a company post that something comes out in a couple of months or so lol

 

Might be a little off topic.
Is the Mag - 15 a good option for a newcomer to the ML/ Deep learning world?
Planning to pick the RTX 2070 model for the same reason or is there any other laptop option?
Not looking for a desktop.

 

So the issue is this laptop throttles when it reaches the low 76 C thermal cap on the GPU so for Deep learning (neural network) you want to use a desktop or a cloud solution. You might be able to get away with some machine learning but possibly nothing too intensive. In my personal opinion this laptop could be used for both after tweaks but you'd be better off getting a 1" thick laptop with better cooling for cheaper. If you want something portable that doesn't thermal throttle (after tweaks of course) then the alienware m15 r1 is the best choice (you can get up to 64GB of ram rather than the measly 16GB SOLDERED on the new m15 r2).

 

Have any of you guys been able to increase the GPU temp limit through ASUS GPU Tweak II? It looks like it's not working anymore for me and that's a big let down..

 

Did you recently update your BIOS?

 

Could be Windows Update

 

I just tried it and it still works. I have to run the MAG in benchmark mode in order to utilize it. Not sure if that’s a new thing since I used so many versions of the CC I lost track.

 

7.2W idle sounds about right.
Your USB Stick might make a difference.
On top of this, the mechanical keyboards takes slightly more power than other keyboards, even without keyboard backlight.
The key actuation is registered via an infrared light barrier on each key. According to my information, this takes about 1W for the whole keyboard.
The rest of the delta could come from a general difference in internal and external I/O ports and various controllers on the mainboard.

May I plug our very own SCHENKER AI Laptop with official Linux support and additional support from an active AI startup company? It's offtopic in this thread, but feel free to ask questions via PM.

Other than that, don't let concerns about GPU Temp Targets discourage you from considering Mag15 or XMG FUSION 15. If it's good enough for gaming (or indeed for 99% utilization in Furmark), it's also good for CUDA of which ML/DL is just one of many applications. The workloads are not that different.

Same here. BIOS 0052 and CC 2.1.0.15

I'm not sure if we want to support playing around with this setting because it might lead to long-term system degradation and warranty issues. What I find especially troubling: when you hit the "Reset to Defaults" button in this tool, it reverts the GPU Temp Target to 87°C instead of reading the real default value from the VBIOS which would have been 75°C. Thanks, Asus!

This kind of unintentional abuse can cause real harm to the system in the long run. At the very least, Intel will not be happy about users running the system beyond Intel's validated design targets.

Cheers,
XMG|Tom

 

7.2w idle is really good. My GS75 draws about 9w idle (144hz, 60hz ~8.5w) with extensive tweaking.

At stock it drew 12w at idle

 

is there a way to check which one of the drivers is updated on the XMG donwload page? right now i can only see that something was updated today, but the only way to check which file would be to download them all..

 

Sorry, no. Today we only fixed a link to the README files. No driver updates yet. LAN driver might come this week. // Tom

 

could you just add the possibility to sort the drivers for date? that would be great

 

I wish Intel would reconsider their stance on this. I got rid of my Dell XPS 9570s because of their low GPU throttling stance as well. 87C isn't going to cause any more issues, Intel is just playing it safe.

 

I tried replacing the usb with ssd, as promised in my post and I got an improvement

I will post screenshots in a few hours.

 

I have to agree here. I’ve run laptops for quite some time at their thermal limits without issues. TJunction is there for a reason.

My Aero is only 7-8 months old but I allow it to hit its thermal limit every single day of its life for hours on end at times.

I do keep it very clean and dust free however.

But I can’t ignore Tom’s consideration for longevity regardless of my own personal usage. It’s also why I made easy to follow guides for improving thermal efficiency of these parts so I’m definitely down with a cooler rig.

If these chassis’s didn’t feature higher boosted GPUs I would care much less to be honest. Even so, I’ve been running mine stock for over a week and I intended on doing so until we get a proper update should one exist. I just recently reinstalled GPU tweak because someone posted here stating it didn’t work after their BIOS update which Tom and I confirmed it still works.

 

I noticed the fans can get very loud even in Balanced mode and even when only CPU is loaded and limited to 45W.

Has anyone tried the custom FanManager for tongfang gk5c on this new model?
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...gk5cq7z-gk5cp0z.815943/page-388#post-10874196

cc @B0B

 

I have been running at stock too and I'll go through your video again to implement some of the tweaks soon. I wanted to get a feel for it first before I started playing.

Again with the sound and the sound blaster connect, I had to go in and change the neutral setting to more volume for any streamed movies online or it played too low. With the boost it's more than ample volume.

 

So you're saying the MAG-15's only selling point is the Eluktroboost technology? Now I'm reconsidering buying the Asia version of this laptop (Vapor 15). I inquired, and they said it does not contain similar technology.

 

Unfortunately not as easy as it sounds. The Download portal is using the synergy of linking the download pages from an indefinite amount of laptops often to the same driver files. Those files get replaced in the background while the links in the frontend for those numerous systems stay the same.
The Download Portal has currently no code to recognize the file version number or upload date of those files in the background.

But for XMG FUSION 15 we are doing it differently. The frontend package is currently maintained independently from all other laptops. So we will continue to use version numbers in the filenames and update the package in the frontend each time there is an update.

Just now we uploaded a new LAN Driver: Driver-06_Realtek_LAN_10.035.0510.2019.zip

This new LAN driver fixes a known issue where switching the performance profile while running system monitoring software would keep the dGPU stuck at “ON” until Reboot. In other words, this LAN driver fixes an issue with Idle power consumption. Normal power consumption should go down to 7-9W in absolute Idle with fully charged battery and low LCD brightness.

Install instructions: Run SetupInf.exe with Admin rights. Confirm success message. Finished.

It is safe and recommended for every owner of XMG FUSION 15 and MAG-15 to update this driver, especially if you are using system monitoring and tuning software on a daily basis.

Cheers,
XMG|Tom

 

Thank you Tom, you guys have terrific communications skills and this kind of attention to details and the responses you are giving to the community is what has driven me to buy from you.
I'm in the process to convince several of my friends just because they saw your level of commitment

 

Oh my I sure hope everyone else didn’t interpret my post this way. I’m referring to the Eluktroboost in general on this laptop. If it wasn’t there I wouldn’t care. Sorry for the confusion

 

Oh okay, thank you for the clarification. This was the statement that gave me that impression: