Intel-TongFang QC7 (Element/Fusion 15/MAG-15/Vapor 15 Pro)

OMG please share temps!!!

 

Day 1 down...

I cannot believe for the life of me why any manufacturer would trust others to review their laptop. The amount of information I have so far ALL would be extremely useful as a buyer and NONE of it was known until now.

Make no mistake, this is a good, and I mean a good laptop. But, it does not have an identity crisis either. It's designed for people preferring this in order....
1) CPU dominant (more on this in the review description)
2) Strong Battery life per spec
3) Solid build, sturdy
4) Games for fun and not a part time job (if not a youtuber then i'd game 1-3 hours per week)

Now don't think for a hot second that this is a poor performer. But you will extremely surprised with the configuration underneath its skirt.

This is truly a remarkable laptop but it was painted in the wrong light...

My contact at Eluktronics said to me early August, "Bob I have a laptop that'll make you switch from the Aero 15" and he's not wrong.

But dear NBR friends, is this for you?

 

I'm interested, what's battery life like?

 

I just wonder how it'll compare to a MaxP RTX 2070 both in terms of performance and temps. If Dave2D's temps are accurate, they probably could have gone with an RTX 2080 MaxQ option or even an i9 option.

 

Dave’s temps accurate?

I encourage people interested and impatient to look at Dave’s comment section and request YouTube to reveal the newest comments first.

Many people have theirs already.....

 

Thank you for the heads up. Only saw yours and one others comments on thermals, but it I guess if something seems too good to be true...

 

Nope.

 

Here's the "first look review" from @OWNORDISOWN and it seems that CPU averages high 80s in Far Cry 5 and Battlefield V on Performance mode. Seems the difference between max and auto fans at that level is negligible (both in temperature and noise). He reports PL1/PL2 power limits of 65/100W, 45/65W and 35/60W in Performance, Balanced and Battery Saver modes, respectively.
On the plus side, keyboard seems to be cool to the touch.

 

Looking forward to Bob's review when he's done

 

First look

 

Well I guess Dave2D is full of crap again with the temps.
After watching David’s video at OwnOrDisown the temps were still pretty high even with Liquid Metal repaste.
Don’t get me wrong this still looks like a great laptop but the way some people were describing the temps you would expect much better numbers that we’ve seen so far.
Maybe I expected too much but I’d say I’m a little disappointed, also from some YouTube comments OwnOrDisown also mentioned the GPU is set to thermally throttle at 75c!
Normally this GPU ( RTX 2070MQ ) is thermally limited to 87c so I’m not sure how far you can push a GPU that’s set to throttle at such a low temp.

 

75c? Wow, that is bad.

Also yes, Dave reviews are a joke. His temperature results are unrealistic. If anyone wants to test real thermal performance - I suggest downloading Forza Horizon 4 demo which is free, disable FPS limit in settings then run the benchmark. Then notice the max CPU temps you will get in Hwinfo. So far this is the only game that makes the CPU thermally throttle in my Dell laptop.

 

Yeah I know Dave's temps were a bit too unrealistic but it's nice to hope ya know!

Holy crap, thermally throttle at 75C? That's really bad. Hope they update the bios to increase it.

 

We’re working hard at a fix for the GPU limitations.

Those who bought theirs expecting Dave2d temps should let him know. This likely hurt his integrity and Eluktronics sales and returns.

As far as the GPU, this was evident immediately and rather than blowing up the internet with it (I made that mistake with the OP laptops) I took a different approach and working on a fix.

The information has been presented and sent to the right eyes.

This is a laptop that was built in collaboration with Intel. This is intels BIOS so the proper channels must be contacted to see how to proceed.

 

Why would they throttle at such low temp, though? Dell does it in XPS because the cooling system there has two tiny rear heatsinks but this model should have enough cooling capacity.

I did let Dave2D know but I doubt he really cares. He is not interested in exposing any flaws since he gets free review samples from manufacturer.

 

His influence surely made him thousands in Amazon Affiliate revenue alone just from that video. If I pulled this garbage, my channel and name would be toast! The MAG-15 is more than just a random laptop for review. This is a BIG deal or was per Dave's review. MAG-15 was a serious buzzword, still is, and how it was portrayed was one thing, but clearly his testing couldn't have been more than a few minutes per game. The GPU throttling was evident pretty quickly once it was in my hands. Maybe 20 minutes of testing.

I would imagine that review above all other recent videos of his could really impact his integrity. This effects so many buyers and Eluktronics should the RMA flood roll in.

With that said, I have a pretty wicked tune on the MAG-15 now that'll cheer up some depression. How's this for a post tuned two hour gaming session?

Apex Legends settings set per my liking of course.

CPU UV -.125 Core/Cache PL limits to 35w
GPU Voltage Curve Lock at .800v @ 1700Mhz
Max Fan at 52dB



Those in doubt can watch the full gameplay in an unlisted video here. Settings in the description

 

Can't wait for the review !

 

Oof @ 75 C GPU thermal throttle. I knew the temps were too good to be true.

The battery I ordered did not end up shipping. Even the page for it is gone now. I hope Eluktronics will sell it standalone some time in the future like they did with the 62 Whr battery for the older model.

 

That’s great performance once it’s tweaked.
Here’s the thing while you and some more experienced people can do that most everyday people that are looking into this laptop just don’t know how or are not willing to put the work into doing that.
Love your work and probably watched every video you have on your channel, same with OWNorDisown and Jarrods Tech.
Now you guys are the real deal not the joke Dave2D is, and nothing personal against him he genuinely seems like a nice guy but he needs to put more effort into his reviews .
You guys generally cover everything in your reviews, keep up the great work man!

 

I’m definitely aware that a tuned laptop is for the minority. No argument from me

 

Where did you bought it from ? I saw two listing one from EU and other from australia

http://www.au-laptop-adapter.com/battery-getac-gkidt-03-17-3s2p-0-96114.html
http://www.replacement-laptop-battery.co.uk/batteries-getac-2917.html

 

The OP has been cleaned up and updated with some insights on progress.

 

Sigh... disappointment. Seems the helios 500 amd version has the thermals down.

 

Yes a suitcase versus a carry-on will fit more clothing too

 

XMG now have the Fusion 15 up for order starting at around 1599 euros for the 1660 ti.

https://bestware.com/de/xmg-fusion-15.html

Having had a look at eluktronics vs XMG, it seems eluktronics is cheaper, but if you have to pay the TVA, VAT, etc, then I think xmg is a better bet for the 1660 ti. If you want the 2070 max Q though, xmg charge a whopping 462 euros for that upgrade and the eluktronics is cheaper even with the TVA/VAT.

Warranty is another matter entirely.

Looking forward to your 1660 ti review, B0B.

 

This display flex is little bit disappointing, and he is barely touching it.

 

Those are good temps, but to be fair you are playing Apex, and different games have different CPU utilization ;-) When I play WoW Classic I also get temps in 70's even without undervolting or limiting PL on my CPU (it is 60w by default), however when I try other games - the temps jump up to 90's. I can also keep temps from doing that with -.125 undervolt but most people will not do that, especially people who do not watch honest YouTube videos who mention undervolting or read these forums. So yea, these results are good but I would also like to see the results without undervolting or limiting CPU power.

I am also curious to see the performance in non-gaming tasks. For example, here are my results in Cinebench, this is at "Ultra Performance" setting in Dell Power Manager and -.125 undervolt applied:

 

Well for one let’s not look at that video as if that is how I’m going to be portraying this laptop if you check the description I believe I give some insight as to what battlefield five was like using the same settings.

Two, this does have an undervolt out of the box. -.050

Lastly, we are working on the safe limits of the CPU to perhaps have a stronger undervolt within the factory software so the customer doesn’t have to do that.

 

You mean undervolt by default? I don't believe it is a good idea, different CPUs might tolerate different undervolt amount, I've seen some posts on Reddit where people said their 8750h or 9750h could only tolerate -.50. Would be better if there would be a slider in Eluktronics software to let people choose it and do their own test to see if this will work.

 

I would be surprised to see -50mv being an issue. I've had 15 or so 8750h laptops and the worst one would do 128mv. I'm sure Intel builds much more than 50mv into their tolerance.

 

Hi Bob -

I see that you listed 230W power brick for 1660 Ti version of this laptop in the original post. Do you happen to know if Eluktronics has plans to ship with 180W power brick later? Seems a bit overkill to ship with 230W and just making the total package a bit heavier than it really needs to be.

 

I bet most of those were Asus laptops. They are notorious for low cache tolerance.

The Helios 300 comes with a factory -125 UV and the new Blade I believe is -.100

 

Why would you be surprised? Here is one example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/az787y/i7_8750h_cant_undervolt_below_0055_v/
Here is another:
https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comm...volt_my_i78750h_laptop_found_a_video/epztr8h/
I've seen other examples at I believe Ultrabookreview site where the reviewer could not undervolt past certain amount, which was less than -.100.

I mean, logic dictates that if these values were safe for every 8750h or 9750h CPU sold by Intel - they would be applied by default for each notebook by each manufacturer who wants to decrease the returns due to users complaining about "overheating" or "loud fan noise" ;-)

 

No sadly logic doesn't dictate that. Intel says well X amount of chips work at Y voltage so we will add Z amount of additional voltage to ensure that W amounts of chips work at our VID for this batch of CPUs. Not all chips are the same, but I've yet to have a mobile "HQ" i7 that didn't undervolt less than 100mv (and I've had quite a few). This laptop was designed in conjunction with Intel, so I'm sure Intel said that would be a good starting point. I'm sure they have a validation process just like Razer or any of the others that ships their laptops with a factory undervolt. That's the difference between Dell and a more "boutique" manufacturer.

 

16 threads and more than decent graphics can suffer a few pounds more that is still portable. But for those who value the portability aspect will find this a deal breaker. To each his own.

 

I bought it from ( https://www.ecrater.com/). I don't think the two you listed are the exact same battery as in the MAG-15, which has code "GKIDT-00-13-3S2P-0", but they do look similar.

 

For fellow europeans, XMG has an early bird offer of win 10 pro license free before Sep 24th (99 euros off if you need a windows license).

 

I am really interested if the laptops offered by XMG would have the same GPU problems. I am already quite unhappy with the noticeable price difference - 1600 EUR (around 1800 USD) for the entry model with just one RAM stick of 8GB. I honestly see no reason to choose the XMG over the Lenovo 740 15 at this point

 

These Chassis’s are made with intel’s bios. As of right now, the GPU thermal limits at 75c are likely not going to change.

The y740 is significantly larger and has a smaller battery over these.

Small footprint, light weight and a large battery. For the price (at least in the States) its a compelling choice still. If these three things don’t make an individuals top priority list then I’d have a hard time recommending laptops like this to that individual.

 

B0B, how does the 1660 ti stack up to the 2070 max Q in terms of thermals and power limiting? The xmg version of the 2070 is just way too much more, and I don't like the idea of shipping from America.

 

Thermals and power limits are the same. Performance is close enough for me to declare the 1660ti the better bang for the buck.

Performance is close in real gaming whereas benchmarks reveal a different tale unless you run them enough times in a row to properly saturate the heatsink and reveal the GPU thermal limits, just like gaming would do.

 

I think people put way too much emphasis on display flex when most people only lift the display to open the laptop, it’s not a touchscreen so I look more into if it has a good hinge mechanism for opening and closing and screen quality, not so much the other things.Not saying display flex is OK but there are more pressing issues like thermals to think about.

 

I couldn’t agree more, while everyone likes all the nice shiny new toys people sometimes forget there are better things already here.
The Lenovo comes with a better GPU ( RTX 2070 ) that’s doesn’t have a 75c thermal throttle limit, 500 nit much better brighter Gsync screen and 16GB 0f dual channel RAM for a much cheaper price.
Only thing better about this laptop is battery life and smaller chassis, sure the Lenovo is not perfect for everyone but If I’m making sacrifices I’ll take the Lenovo over this every time.
If the thermals were what everyone was told to expect ( here’s looking at you Dave2D ) and the GPU was set to throttle at 87c like most every other GPU I might have changed my tune but if I’m spending that much extra I’d like to see some benefits over some of the competition and they are too few to change my mind.
Maybe I expected way too much from early reports but all I see is a decent laptop with way too many flaws.

 

For its form factor, the only legitimate flaw is the GPU thermal limitation.

As far as temps, 90c on the CPU is unfortunately quite standard.

With that said I’m working closely with Eluktronics and modifying their software to make the most of what this chassis can offer in ways that make sense. Gaming temps shouldn’t hit 90c anymore if this pans out.

 

Well, I myself am a casual gamer so I was actually looking at the 1660ti model. The only thing of interest here was 1. The smaller chassis and 2. The better cooling. With my usage I know I am just fine with a high end i5 CPU, but I really wanted something slick and mobile. Obviusly the Razor brand is wayyy to expensive in Europe so no comparrison there. The only thing stopping me from getting the Lenovo at this moment is the fact that Lenovo UK does not offer Y740 15 with 1660ti, they start from the 20 RTX models. At 1500 USD I could "swallow" some of the limitations, but at almost 1700 EUR , because I want 16GB of RAM (close to 1900 USD) getting the XMG model just does not make sense.

 

The Lenovo 740 15" Base price starts at 1718 euros with no windows and 8gb of ram with the 2060 in the UK. And counting for the 20% tax you will pay in uk or in my case France, the xmg is pretty close to eluktronics prices (except the 2070 MQ that I mentioned before which is terrible value). I am on a knife's edge on getting the fusion 15, I just need to see a sensible review on the 1660 ti model first.

Thanks for the info B0B, it all helps

 

The 1M$ question is...are you going to replace your Aero with it?

 

Yup, the amount of undervolt tolerated varies by individual CPU. We can generalize after a while once a new CPU is out and owners report a range of successful undervolts, but even then it's really just a guideline - a place to start - but each owner needs to test and tune on their own computer.

I've had as low as -15mV to as high as -175mV tolerated at stock CPU settings. As soon as I OC I need to manage reducing the undervolt and the higher I go it may cross over to requiring a positive voltage offset, an overvolt may be needed for stable operation.

Pre-OC'd laptops like Asus ROG laptops have been shipping recently are already topped out and have Zero undervolt available.

That's why it's unusual for a vendor to pre-undervolt a laptop as it requires specific per laptop tuning time, no presets are reliable, and that's essentially why Intel overvolts so far as a default to make sure there are next to Zero failed CPU's out of the box. And, that's why there is this "headroom" for undervolting.

I'd worry if vendors started setting a "standard" undervolt for every laptop, unless they verify each individual laptop before it leaves production and is shipped.

 

Those European Lenovo prices are crazy, you get get a GTX 1660ti/16GB RAM model here in the USA for under $1400.

That’s good news sort of, so Eluktronics thinks there is no way Intel reverses the boneheaded move of the 75c GPU throttle limit?
Glad to see someone is at least working on a solution, I’m guessing they somehow have to modify the BIOS and that can’t be easy.
I just don’t understand Intel’s decision since most of the 80W/90W GPU’s run relatively cool in most laptops with halfway decent cooling, I mean sure the could have lowered it but by a whole 12c is just really dumb.
The high temps I’ve experienced with Intel are usually the CPU’s .

 

The reason Intel gave, I’d be embarrassed to even say it here lol.

Meanwhile I’m beta testing several Control Centers to get them dialed in for everyone. We’re close, a few more modifications and it’ll be ready to download