Intel-TongFang QC7 (Element/Fusion 15/MAG-15/Vapor 15 Pro)

I would love to!

Aero 15 (early 2019) vs MAG-15

MAG-15
Weight Winner 4.15lbs
Footprint Winner Razer Blade size
Build Material Winner Magnesium Alloy
Fingerprints Winner Stays super clean!
Trackpad Winner Slightly larger, easy to disable, double-tap top left
Windows Hello Winner IR camera's rock!
CPU Performance Winner CPU Performance after our CC updates should suit everyone
Docked Winner AERO cannot perform well with its lid closed

Battery Life Tie Both set a high standard
Thermals Tie The MAG is a work in progress

AERO 15
Fan Acoustics Winner 4dB quieter 48 vs 52
Port Selection Winner UHSII and an extra USB-C
Software Winner Detailed + Fan Control
GPU Performance Winner Higher GPU temp throttle limit
Display Winner Individually Pantone Calibrated but the MAG is 30-40 nits brighter
Speaker Audio Winner No question The AERO speaker audio is actually very good, but not loud


The MAG-15 looks like the GS65, MECH G2 and Razer Blade all wrapped in one laptop. The weird part is that it makes the Aero look dated. But, I miss that numpad at times and I do not like keyboards that make noise. But the MAG mechanical keys feel better than both G2 models IMO. I had the MECH 15 (1st gen Mech) and those mechanical keys were pretty good. The AERO looks and IS big....it has more depth and it really seems unnecessary considering the Battery and Storage are identical.

In the end this comes down to price to what you value and it's value that is my bottom line. The only two shortcomings legitimately worth complaining about (remember the form factor here folks)

1) Dave's Thermal testing. The details of this are as follows. He had Master Gel Extreme and only showed "Balanced" mode thermal performance. He had pre-production of the Control Center Software and its "Balanced" mode running the GPU at a typical 1660 ti laptop frequency and power limit (No Eluktroboost) and the CPU and 65/45. Those with the MAG 15 in hand today do not have that option as the "balanced" mode limits the GPU to 645Mhz. We'll have this better than fixed very soon. With that said, I have already customized the MAG to mimic Dave's settings and temps do NOT reflect his, even with the same games tested. Ambient temps (mine at 73F) as well as the Master Gel Extreme could "potentially" make up the difference, but unlikely. Just chalk this up to 3 min testing because that's about all that;'s worth.

2) GPU thermally limited to 75c. This is intels BIOS and I in fact have the reason from the horses mouth as to why this is this way (too silly to say). It's unlikely to change based on what I know right now. So what does this mean? Eluktroboost out of the box isn't going to perform any better than a mediocre 1660ti MaxP after a good gaming session. Benchmarks will reflect otherwise due to the lack of heat build up form short pathetic runs to claim factual performance. HOWEVER, since Eluktroboost does indeed function, following my unlisted video linked in the OP you'll see that we can actually make out 1660ti run up towards 1700MHZ and not PL throttle. That's a slight increase over my post-tuned 1660ti laptops tested so far.

So in the end, my money is better spent on the MAG. Big battery thin and light gaming laptops are priced high but at least the MAG 15 puts the competition in check.

 

Based on experience, are the thermals and the overall performance usually the same for similar Clevo laptops sold by different assemblers such as Eluktronics, XMG, etc? I am a bit worried, becouse all the XMG Fusuion info will be in German. @Shere Khaan, tax in the EU is always included in the advertised price so there won't be 20% price increase at checkout

 

Thanks!

Indeed, I am worried by the keyboard not being quiet enough.

I think I can make do with the 75c limit, but the keyboard might turn out to be a deal breaker... I guess I will have to test it

Edit: just read on the OP that you have a unit with stock thermal paste

XMG in EU offers a Kyronaut repaste for... 50€

 

Yup, I know about the tax included in European prices, I was referring to the eluktronics prices for importing into Europe as a comparison.

Thank you for the excellent summary, B0B, I think I'll pull the trigger but like above I am unsure about the pasting. Is it worth redoing the pasting with Kryonaut? To me it seems marginal and probably not worth the risk by the sounds of it.

 

XMG also sell the 1660 ti version

 

Yep, I am also disappointed in the price of RTX 2070 (and European taxes are too high) I decided not to buy.

 

Kryonaut Is excellent thermal paste and when I used it recently shaved off about 5-6c off a CPU on a laptop I did, is it worth it? I’d have to say absolutely yes but 50€ is a lot of money for that service.
If your comfortable doing it yourself , I wouldn’t hesitate using it but for that many € you can buy like 4 tubes of the stuff!

 

XMG invalidates your whole laptop warranty if you repaste by yourself, unfortunately.

 

Thanks Bob for starting this thread. Everything seems perfect except for the 75c cap. Do you or anyone know about the Maingear Element.
https://maingear.com/element/
Another re-seller using this chassis.
will it also have the gpu temp cap?

 

All of them will have essentially the same bios and will have the same thermal limitation

Intel has their single reason for this so our next step is to provide evidence to them that everything will still work out within their specifications after increasing the limit to 87°C

 

Bob, appreciate the efforts you are taking. Just like others, for me this laptop is 'The chosen one'. Hoping intel will rectify this.

 

The model won't run within Max-Q design determined by Nvidia if they increased the thermal limit to 87°C. They had to make much better (more expencive cooling) to match nvidia's certification requirements. Intel can't override nvidia's requirements. No one is forcing the manufacturer to shrink the chassis down to Apple levels.

 

Hi guys,

nice thread you got going on here. Would be a shame if anything happens to it...

As in every serious gaming/performance laptop, the DP is coming directly from the GPU. You can use G-SYNC monitors and VR headsets on Thunderbolt. We will ship every XMG FUSION 15 with an included, passive USB-C/DP to DisplayPort (female, full-size) adapter so you don't have to look around the web for compatible adapters. The first batches will be shipped with this adapter - later we will switch to a different one from our own OEM source.

Only if you do it improperly. Otherwise, how would we notice?

We have an English FAQ about XMG FUSION 15 on Reddit and our shop bestware.com is translated into English.

Which problem? There is no problem. See below.


First of all, good work from Bob to dive into the benchmarks. We would like to contribute with some documentation on the performance profiles in XMG FUSION 15.
I hope it helps and I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have. The same documentation will be put up in the FAQ in our threads on Reddit and Notebookcheck.


What is behind the System Performance Modes: Silent, Balanced and Enthusiast?

In Intel’s reference design, each system profile is put together from 3 main building blocks.

• CPU Power Mode + Windows Power Management Profile
• GPU Performance Profile, realized through p-states
• Different Fan Tables

Each of these building block has 3 available settings. Intel does not allow to customize the content of each block, but we can re-arrange the blocks as they are put together.

This is done by editing the setup.ini of the Contol Center before installation. They can also be edited later in Windows Registry. The syntax of setup.ini and registry will be explained at the end of this document.

Let’s describe the content of each block first:


CPU Power Mode + Windows Power Management Profile

The numbering of the mode reflects the numbering of the profile in Intel’s setup.ini
Smaller number = faster profile



The PL1 and PL2 values represent the upper and lower ends of the CPU Package Power in various heavy load situations. The Prime95 collumn represents values that are sustained for a considerable amount of time after starting the benchmark.

[This paragraph has been updated on 2 October 2019 after BIOS 0052 and CC 2.1.0.15]


GPU Power Mode

The GPU Modes are utilizing an NVIDIA API called p-state. Unlike Intel’s PL1/PL2 TDP states, NVIDIA’s p-states are not very flexible and can only be set in very broad strokes. For example, there is nothing between p0 and p3. In other words, NVIDIA only allows to either give 100% performance or to reduce it down to 50~60%. Those p-states are originally meant to protect the battery from overcharging when running on battery power. In this case, Intel is using p-states to create ultra-silent performance profiles with reduced GPU power consumption. NVIDIA does not allow any fine-grained, direct control over the GPU TGP.



The GPU Performance gaps between these modes are based on synthetic benchmarks like Furmark. The real world gaps might be slightly different, mostly depending on how much VRAM speed affects in-game FPS.


Fan Tables

We will not publish the full fan tables due to our NDA. The fan tables have different ramping mechanims. For the purpose of this document, it suffices to know the fan table’s top speed when the GPU Temp Target of 75°C is reached.



Due to Intel’s policy, Fan Table 3 can only be used with GPU Mode 3.


Intel’s recommended Performance Profiles

If you put all of these blocks together, you will arrive at Intel’s default System Modes. This is what they look like:



In Intel’s standard, System Mode 2 is default. This puts the GPU in p3 state which is enough for casual gaming and could be described as a very CPU-centric performance mode.

The end-user can hot-switch between each System Mode with a dedicated button, located next to the power button. The LED configuration of this “Mode Switch Button” indicates which mode is currently set.

On top of these 3 system modes, Intel also provides a “Benchmark Mode” checkbox. This this special mode applies System Mode #1 (full speed) and lets the fans run at 100% at all times. This can be described as a debugging mode, not really made for benchmarking. This checkbox can be removed from the UI by the Local OEM via setup.ini during Control Center installation.



Introducing XMG FUSION 15 custom performance profiles

After evaluating our samples and various discussions internally and with trusted community members, we at XMG settled on the following reshuffle:



Our Balanced Mode provides full GPU speed, combined with standard fan table and unlocked CPU Mode. The GPU speed is only constrained during prolonged use by reaching the NVIDIA GPU Temp Target at some point.

With the update on October 2nd with BIOS 0052 and CC 2.1.0.15, we have aligned our Enthusiast Mode with Intel's standard. This makes the Enthusiast profile even more pronounced vs. Balanced, especially in CPU-heavy tasks. On top of the CPU Mode and Fan Mode difference, the Tcc offset is also changed (see below).

In Gaming situations, the main performance driver in Balanced vs. Enthusiast is the Fan Mode. Higher fan speeds will make sure to keep core temperatures away from their temperature targets, thus providing higher clock speeds in sustained load situations.

Our Silent profile is using GPU Mode #2 which makes this profile a very nice Silent Gaming profile, or alternatively: do serious 3D editing or CUDA rendering in the library or while sitting in a boring meeting room without having your fans spin up too much. This mode - when fully loaded - is roughly equivalent to using NVIDIA WhisperMode or similar frame-limiting methods. In Idle or low load situations, all 3 System Modes behave in a very similar way. The lowest recorded power consumption in Idle Desktop is between 7 and 9W on the wall socket.

[This paragraph has been updated on 2 October 2019 after BIOS 0052 and CC 2.1.0.15]


How does this affect battery life?

You might worry that our 'GPU Mode 2' in Silent profile might reduce your battery life. However, this is not the case. Here is the reason why:

As long as NVIDIA Optimus is set up with default automatics, all of your desktop apps (browser, messenger, media player, office) are running on the Intel GPU. The "GPU Mode" in above table only relates to the NVIDIA GPU. As long as there are no apps running on the NVIDIA GPU, it is fully powered down, consuming literally no energy.

In other words, our CPU/GPU choices reflect the potential " peak performance" - the baseline however is always dynamically moved down to the lowest possible state in order to keep the system cool and extend your battery life at any given moment.

In total, with our performance profiles, we measure the same long battery life as we do with Intel's defaults: typical numbers range from almost 8 hours for 1080p Youtube playback, 10 hours for local 1080p video files and up to 12 hours in absolute idle with lowest brightness etc. - this behaves very similarly across all 3 system modes.



CPU Temp Target aka ‘Tcc offset’

There is another key aspect to system performance which has not yet been described in the tables above: CPU Temp Target aka ‘Tcc offset’.

‘Tcc offset’ substracts a given value from the CPU’s internal maximum operation temperature, called ‘Tcc’. The exact value for ‘Tcc’ differs for each CPU (due to yield and binning) but is usually well beyond 90°C.

For example: if we assume Tcc to be 95°C, then a ‘Tcc offset’ of -10°C would result in a CPU Temperature Target of 85°C. Approaching this Temperature Target will prompt the CPU to moderate Turbo Boost clock speeds during sustained load situations.

Intel allows to dynamically change the Tcc offset in real-time for each performance profile. It is important to note that this Tcc offset is not attached to the ‘CPU Mode’ in above tables, but instead to the ‘System Mode’.

Please refer to the following reference table.



These offset numbers are hard-coded by Intel and cannot be changed.

As you can see, Tcc offset for each System Mode has two different values, depending on whether the NVIDIA GPU (aka dGPU) is active or not. If you are prioritizing the Integrated Graphics (Intel GPU, iGPU) via NVIDIA Optimus (MSHybrid) and if you are not running any 3D applications on the NVIDIA GPU, the dGPU should stay “off” and thus allow the CPU to reach a higher Temperature Target and thus a higher sustained CPU performance.


How to reshuffle System Power Modes on end-user side

The Setup folder of the Control Center has a file called setup.ini. Usually at the bottom of this file, there is a section called “Power”. This is how it looks in our XMG version:

Code:

[Power]
Performance = P1G1F1
Balanced = P2G1F2
BatterySaver = P3G2F2
Default = 2

“Default” describes which system mode is selected by default after installation of the software.
The other 3 lines define each of the 3 system power modes, put together from 3 building blocks.

As you can probably guess, you only have to adjust the numbers between 1, 2 and 3.

P = CPU Mode
G = GPU Mode
F = Fan Table

As you can see, the naming of these system modes in this setup.ini is slighly different from the UI translation in the Control Center. But it still follows the same principle: smaller number = bigger performance:

System Mode 1 = Performance
System Mode 2 = Balanced
System Mode 3 = BatterySaver


These settings can also be modified after installation in Registry Editor

Registry Path:

Code:

Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\OEM\GamingCenter\DefaultPower

Registry Screenshot:



In the Registry, "PowerMode" indicates the default profile. Profile1 to 3 are numbered the same way as the "System Mode" in my reference tables in this document.

To load and apply these Registry changes, the user has to quit and restart the Control Center. Quitting is done via Right Click on the Control Center icon in the Windows systray.


Conclusion and Download

This concludes our journey into the inner workings of the system power modes of XMG FUSION 15 and our customized Control Center.

If any owner wants to play around with our Control Center, you can already find it here:

https://download.schenker-tech.de/package/xmg-fusion-15-xfu15l19/

If you wish to install a new or customized version of Control Center, please make sure to uninstall the old version first via Windows "Apps & Features".

Theoretically, our Control Center can be used by any owner of Intel's reference design and should result in the same system behaviour, independent of the brand.
There are no checks in place that would verify if you're actually running an XMG system.

This might be subject to change, in case Intel decides to allow more firmware customization in the future (for example through a DMI Editor).
If any such customizations materialize, I will edit this post. Until then, please use our Control Center at your own risk or double-check with your system vendor before you proceed.


Looking forward to your questions and your feedback!

Cheers,
XMG|Tom


/edit Updated on 2019-10-02: after BIOS 0052 and CC 2.1.0.15 we changed the CPU Mode in our Enthusiast profile from P2 to P1, thus aligning this mode with Intel's standard. Two paragraphs have been updated.

 

Thanks for all the info, that's very appreciated.

Will I be able to setup a custom fan profile?
It sounds to me like we are restricted to Intel's fan profiles, is that correct?

Regarding the thermal paste, I contacted your support and I was told the warranty would be invalidated for all HW in the laptop.
I was also told that XMG is usually 'nice' and repairs unrelated HW issues anyway.
I am not sure I'd be happy knowing that XMG might or might not repair a HW issue which is obviously unrelated to the repaste.
The warranty terms clearly state (and your support confirmed) that once you repaste, you're on your own. You can only rely on XMG's goodwill to repair issues unrelated to the repaste.
It'd be quite nice if the warranty stated the warranty is only void if XMG has reasons to believe the HW issue was due to the repaste. Warranty on the rest of the HW should not be affected, those are the terms of other resellers, as far as I remember.

Regarding the 'how would we know you repasted', it shouldn't be hard to tell the default paste from a different one. Viscosity, colour, application method, etc...

Thanks again for all the precious information you are providing anyway, very appreciated.

 

This is correct, to the best of my knowledge. But Intel's fan profiles are reasonable and sound.

Just like our pre-applied thermal paste options. Which brings me to your next question:

Now you're really putting me on the spot with raising such an offtopic topic in this thread. We should continue this via PM or you might want to open a new thread somewhere or use this thread instead. (As a vendor, we are not allowed to open our own threads at Notebookreview)

Rest assured, I have raised your comment and your suggestion to our team members and it will be discussed.

On the other hand, please also note that our strict warranty terms and our support people's strict answers are a safeguard against hobbyists who think they know what they're doing and in the process ruin their laptop and then come in to claim warranty. It's not just the repaste itself than can go wrong. Bending your heatpipe in the process either through manhandling or by applying the wrong torque or removing/adding screws in the wrong order. Especially combined CPU/GPU heatpipes are very delicate and have to be handled with a lot of care - otherwise you'll partially lose contact on the die, especially if you're using super high-end thermal compounds - those are quite intolerant when it comes to surface contact.

This has happened way too often in the past.

Again, it our mind, you just won't need to do a manual repaste. Contrary to popular believe, the stock thermal compound from the ODM is a well performaning and durable compound and we now even offer Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut for everybody who wants to add something a little bit special.

This is the last word I want to write in this thread about this topic. As I said, let's move this discussion to a different area. I appreciate your feedback but I don't want to derail Bob's thread about the MAG-15 more than I already did.

Cheers,
XMG|Tom

 

Personally my opinion is that you need to provide a simple and clear instructions to users for how to repaste in a safe manner. That will guarantee not to harm the equipment. To include such a simple repasting guideline preferably on a single loose sheet of A4 paper that is shipped in the box with the laptop. And branded with a safety warning / mark. To prevent damage to the equipment the instruction should simply say: To be sure to cover the entire silicon die area in plenty of paste. And not to use a 'pea' or other 'rice grain' method. Just not to risk leaving any not covered area of the die. This step should then mostly protect against a situation where somebody did a bad repaste.

If you want to also go further and protect the VRM then some extra instruction about the thermal pads would also need to be included.

The main reason why I am suggesting this is because: basically all laptops will need regular repasting. Usually every 1-2 years, or sometimes even more often. And this is especially (even more) true for higher TDP gaming laptops.

But an even better place to put this instruction would be to include on a warning sticker, that is actually on the very heatsink assembly itself. Inside of the machine. Or do both. That way it is very difficult for the user to ignore reading the message.

But that's just my opinions here. Feel free to think of other possible ways.

 

Of course, agree on the off topic.
I thought it would make sense to talk about it here since a few members are already talking about the xmg model in this thread.

Thanks for the info, and I completely understand your point

Back ot

 

Will the thermal limit be increased in the future? It seems like currently we'll either have to turn up the fans (loud) and possibly still get a performance hit compared to comparable laptops, or turn on 'balanced' or 'battery saver' mode and take an even bigger performance hit.

 

Can anyone here confirm a couple of things for me for the eluktronics version
1. Can usb c thunderbolt port actually do Gsync? with or without any adapter? (might use for value index as well)
2. Does anyone have experience with the alienware m15 keyboard? Does this keyboard feel better than that one? (by that I mean more feedback and satisfying to press)
3. Is eluktronics plan on releasing an SDK for the per key lighting? Would be useful to use things like this https://www.project-aurora.com/
4. What FPS do you get in league of legends with all settings maxed out in borderless window? (Silly question I know but bear with me, if this has enough CPU performance to handle league and get a consistent 144 fps even in team fights I might just buy it despite the thermal limit on the GPU).

I really like certain things about this laptop from a buyer's perspective (PROS)
1. Power port on the back (big deal for me, only reason I even consider eluktronics/lenovo/alienware)
2. Windows hello (can't believe alienware doesn't have this, even on their new m15 r2 WITH tobii)
3. Large battery (Battery life is a big plus when you go on hackathons, sadly lenovo battery isn't too large)
4. Mechanical keyboard (I like my keyboards to have good feedback, alienware keyboard is mediocre at best BUT has a numpad and I don't know about lenovo's feedback tbh)
5. Size/weight (This thing looks really small compared to my current alienware m15 and almost 0.7 lbs lighter! and way smaller than y740)
6. Performance (IF they fix the thermal throttle issue on the GPU)

What I don't like (CONS)
1. No GPU mux switch (alienware m15 with optimus is the bane of my existence, but if it can reach 144 fps consistently in league I am 100% happy)
2. No display port (if it can do Gsync over thunderbolt 3, I'd consider this a none issue)
3. No Numpad (bummer but it wouldn't be a dealbreaker)
4. No known per key lighting SDK (as far as I know, would be great so we can actually make our own programs to show CPU/GPU temps as an example or hook into alienware fx for league [did it for an old aorus I had])
5. No fan control (as long as the fan curves are respectable I'd be ok with this con)
6. Speakers might not be as good as Lenovo or Alienware m15 r1

Anyone here have any reasons why I wouldn't want to switch from my alienware m15 r1 to this machine? (other than the GPU thermal limit)

 

It seems Aftershock's variant is named Vapor 15 Pro. It comes standard with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut.

 

This laptop (XMG fusion 15) looks like a great replacement for my Alienware m15 r1. What I am curious about. In fan mode 1 of intel @XMG what is the temperature threshold for the fans to turn on. In battery mode and in power outlet mode.

Currently my alienware m15's fans wont turn off if temperature is higher than 40C on battery and connected to power outlet they never turn off. I really want a laptop which is more slick, less gamery, better keyboard feedback (m15 has only 1.2mm travel...) and great fan curves for simple desktop use.

To bad the upgrade is only 2070 max q. (450 eur upgrade) I wish they had 2060. Im leaning towards the 1660ti now, but it's 10% less performance

 

I currently have no reason to believe that the GPU Temp Target of this model will be increased in the near future. Intel was quite clear to us that the GPU Temp Target is how Intel is controlling the system and skin temperature under load. They have certain maximum temperature levels under their regulatory regime and they validated this laptop to be compliant even in ambient temperatures as high as 30°C. Think Singapore or a hot Australian summer without A/C.

We at XMG have already traversed this discussion with Intel in-depth since beginning of June when we started scrutinizing our early working samples. During this process, we came up with the concept of reshuffling the performance profiles as explained in my post above. Those settings were originally not exposed. We worked to together with Intel to make sure that LOEM partners have more flexibility in how to build these profiles. During this time, we also modified Intel's fan tables early enough so they have since become the new, validated standard.

So in essence, Intel has already come a certain way to accommodate our feedback - always provided that it wouldn't conflict with their validation limits (skin temperatures, system noise) in all thinkable edge cases. Based on what I've learned, Intel's cooling system is supposed to be able to run without fail for at least 5 years at full power, uninterrupted, 24/7. These kinds of considerations were the main driver behind Intel's R&D and their power/temp/noise balancing and this is what makes this laptop so special and unique.

(The above is partially copied from our answers in this reddit thread.)

I don't share this assesment. In our Enthusiast profile, the system is already performing beyond NVIDIA's standard Turbo Boost specs.
In Balanced, the performance and fan noise are managed in a reasonable way, similar to what we have seen on other Thin&Light laptops. You will see more data in upcoming reviews.

USB-C/DP can do G-SYNC and is fully recognized by the NVIDIA driver as a normal DisplayPort monitor. Thunderbolt has actually nothing to do with this. The DisplayPort signal is natively passed through. The same goes for all other USB-C/DP ports in every other NVIDIA-powered laptop in our portfolio.

I can't speak for our friends in the U.S. but I'm 100% the same applies to the MAG-15 because it's based on the same motherboard, firmware and drivers.

At XMG, will ship the XMG FUSION 15 with an included, passive USB-C/DP to DisplayPort (female, full-size) adapter so you don't have to look around the web for compatible adapters. The first batches will be shipped with this adapter - later we will switch to a different one from our own OEM source.

That's all I can share today - have a good weekend!

Cheers,
XMG|Tom

 

Thanks for the information and conformation, Tom. Appreciate the official input

 

It's not a problem to make B0B the original poster. Don't assume something can't be done; ask.

Posts from this point forward must be on-topic.
Move on.

Charles

 

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/20492097

https://www.3dmark.com/spy/8601385

 

Prema you got a Vbios for this laptop?
Did you get over the 75c GPU throttle limit?

 

Thank you for this excellent news.

I was hoping if you can tell that the battery of Fusion 15 will be compatible with XMG Neo 17? Both look like the same size but there could be a mismatch. And will this battery going to be available for purchase?

 

The link already given for replacement battery was this one, isn't it? The person who linked this was not 100% certain though. It's presently unconfirmed as of yet. So any confirmation would be great.

http://www.replacement-laptop-battery.co.uk/batteries-getac-2917.html

 

PSA: I have updated my post about the System Power Modes by adding information about the location of these settings in the Windows Registry.

After both CPU and GPU have reached their respective "Fan off" temperature, the fans will continue to run at 30% speed for 3 minutes and (if "Fan off" temperature is not exceeded again during this time) then power off.
30% is very slow and will make sure to continue to cool down the mainboard and skin temperatures.

"Fan off" temperatures are:
Below 48°C for CPU
Below 56°C for GPU

These values are identical for all 3 fan tables.

We can double-confirm that there won't be any RTX 2060 on this laptop in this generation.

My pleasure!

Since this battery is not plugable, it is unlikely that users will purchase spare batteries from the get-go.
It will be a while before we start stocking spare batteries for this model.

The 94.48Wh battery from XMG FUSION 15 does not fit into XMG NEO 15 or XMG NEO 17. Facts:

• The battery needs 4 screws to be held in place. Only 1 out of 4 screws align with the FUSION battery position in XMG NEO
• The 94.48Wh has more than double the z-height of the original batteries in NEO. Certain elements of the Top Case are would need to be chiseled away in order to make it fit.
  
• With the increased z-height, the FUSION battery collides with the FFC cables for the keyboard and the right-side I/O ports

Pictures:

1) Top: XMG NEO 15 with official 62.32Wh battery installed. Bottom: disassembled 93.48Wh battery from XMG FUSION 15.




2) Battery height comparison: 62.32Wh at the top, 93.48Wh at the bottom






3) XMG NEO 15 with battery removed. These pictures indicate which areas collide with z-height of 93.48Wh battery, including rubber blocks, plastic notches and floating FCC cables.







(click pictures for full resolution)


The situation on XMG NEO 17 looks very similar.

Conclusion: We will not support this case modification and upgrade.

If you make it work, you can connect the 93.48Wh battery to XMG NEO 15 and 17 - the polarisation of the DC cable seems to align. The battery is correctly identified and can be charged and dischaged by the system.

Disclaimer: This combination has not been validated for safety and long-term usage. The charge and discharge mechanism of the mainboard might not have been calibrated for this battery. In the worst case it might result in serious damage, even up to thermal build-up, fire and explosion.

We will not continue to test this combination due to these safety concerns. We seriously advice against doing user-upgrade with 3rd party batteries that are not officially supported by your system vendor.

tl;dr: do not try this at home.

Cheers,
XMG|Tom

 

Yeah you would have to make a whole new special bottom cover, that had a side profile something a bit like this:

View of bottom cover
From Right Side

Code:

 Battery     Air scoop    Heatsink
\_______/------------------_______|

A prototype of this object could be 3d printed a few times, in order to get the right positioning for the mounts / screw posts / adapter clips etc.

HOWEVER

You would also need to check and make sure that the charging controller on the Fusion's mainboard (on the old laptop) was actually capable and compatible with the new larger 94wh batter. Since the number of cells / taps etc may be different. And / or the charging controller might need a new firmware etc.

Another consideration to think about is that usually a normal 3d print for an object so thing and large as a new bottom cover would probably not be very durable. And prone to breaking. So it would either need to be made significantly thicker in places (over engineered). For lower quality print materials to be strong enough. Or otherwise do a final print it in a more durable material, for example by a service to another company, who has a better printer.

So... a few obstacles to overcome there. But quite an interesting and fun project for someone. Assuming you could get the charging controller to work. And I'm not sure about that.

 

Any chances to connect external display via iGPU or Optimus on this chassis?

 

Absolutely zero chance, natively speaking. Both external ports are linked to the dGPU. Why would you want to use the iGPU for external displays? Honest question.

Even when the external monitor is connected to the dGPU, it is still possible to render the 3D content on the iGPU. I have recently made statements about this topic in this German thread.

Another thing you could do is using a USB adapter with "DisplayLink" technology. That's like using a 3rd mini-graphics card that's inside the USB dongle, but it comes with driver conversion, input lag and resolution restrictions. See here and here. I'm not a fan.

Cheers,
XMG|Tom

 

Eagerly awaiting @B0B's review. I love my Aero15 but am always looking for a better replacement, lol...

Just wished it had a numberpad, and could charge with USB-C... I also wonder if my Razer power adapter would work with it (something more portable for travel).

 

I guess power efficiency is one reason one would want that.
It would consume a lot less and allow you to project on a screen for a lot longer.
For cases when you don't have a charger or you don't want to bring it around (like at conferences), or you don't have a plug available, etc

He's keeping us on our toes

 

How bulky/heavy is the power adapter for this laptop?

 

Yes, keyboard is definitely a question mark at this point. I imagine it will be quite subjective in the end. And I agree that USB-C power delivery would have been a nice touch.
According to official information from XMG in their Reddit megathread, the connector is 5.5/2.5 mm. in diameter and 12.5 mm. in length. They made a spreadsheet comparing compatible adapters.
One can only hope that @B0B's review makes you replace your Aero 15 so that we can enjoy your review in turn too!

 

During the day i don't need dGPU performance, i'm using it like regular office PC with external peripherals or on the go.
With this nice battery i can leave my power brick at home if it can stand ~6-7 hours of light usage.
With USB-C charging it would be even better, because my working monitor have one, but even without it i'm very exited about this model if i can get 6-7 hours of light office usage.

Very interesting.
I'm just wondering, how big is the difference in power consumption and battery life between:
* browsing/office on internal display without external one with Optimus(=iGPU while browsing)
* browsing /office on external display with those power saving settings.

You are 100% correct

 

Something else I noticed - in your video your GPU stays clocked at constant 1700Mhz, because it runs pretty cool. In OWNorDisown's video I see GPU clocks jumping up and down and usually staying at much lower clock speed. I wonder if this is because his review unit is hitting 75c thermal throttle limit... If it is - this is pretty sad, considering his unit supposedly has liquid metal paste for CPU. I wonder why Eluktronics does not apply it to GPU too since it is obvious it is getting heavily thermally throttled. They can't honestly expect EVERY customer to know how to undervolt everything? ;-)


Oh, and out of curiosity, to anyone who already bought it with 2070 Max-q GPU option: what Firestrike score you get without undervolting and what Physics temps you get? Some screenshot like this would be nice to see:

 

The point of that information and video was to show what this is capable of after some tuning.

Otherwise you’ll be bouncing off the 75c limit and frequency throttling to the mid 1400’s after a good heatsoak.

 

@B0B eagerly awaiting your review too. Since i'm willing to make a few sacrifices to have a truly portable gaming machine, I guess that'll be the one for me.

Something interesting that you could maybe check for me or mention in the review : since the keyboard is mechanical, how easy is it to remove/put back in place the keycaps, for cleaning or just to create an alternate keyboard layout such as AZERTY ?

Is it something easy where the keys just clip back in place, or a tedious task that means having moving keys going around ?

 

@B0B Interesting question for you to ask eluktronics since you'd have a better relationship with them than I, are they considering adding an SDK for their per key lighting? It would really give a new dimension of gimick to the keyboard if it could be used to change color based on CPU/GPU temps, if it throttles or being able to integrate with video games.

 

Legion y740 does that and here I thought I was the only one to think that was cool

I’ll pass it along!

 

If it’s anything like the G2 it’s not too bad but I’d fear some would break something. Let me see how I should go about this

 

Thanks, does y740 actually have an ask though? I can't find any proof of that

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

Looking through some XMG replies on some youtube videos, they mention that the xmg fusion has Keyboard is per-key RGB, addressable by Intel's software. Currently not open for API. So it would appear it wouldn't be available for an API but I wonder how hard it would be to reverse engineer one. Would be a waste to have a per key RGB keyboard you couldn't program....

 

I haven't seen them in a while but maybe @Eluktronics can answer it themselves.

 

Thanks ! I'm used to AZERTY keyboards so it would definitely be a plus if i could "convert" the MAG15 into one.

 

That's the base model. The laptop is made by Tsinghua Tongfang and sold as a barebone to various boutique resellers, such as Eluktronics, XMG, HidEvolution and so on. The resellers add the RAM, HDD/SSDs and do some testing before shipping the laptop to end-users.

 

Just a quick reminder, you guy are already aware that the per-key rgb was already found for the previous model, right? (the mech g2).

I don't think anybody has bothered to check yet if they are the same here. I mean... why would Tongfang have changed it? Rather than just re-use the same thing. And if there are some differences, it may be pretty similar anyhow. For example you would still expect to be sending some magic (and probably not documented) bytes over the i2c bus.

But I'm all for them opening up the API here. Just mentioning this because sometimes the manufacturer here (such as Tongfang) might be using some proprietary RGB controller chip. And have other non disclosure agreement to that other supplier not to publish the specs / interface etc. Heh - it happens all too often in this industry. So don't wait! Go look! (over on the other thread).

Too bad the search tool on this forum sucks so badly. There is always google though.