Intel-TongFang QC7 (Element/Fusion 15/MAG-15/Vapor 15 Pro)

Question - does anyone know if two of these (for a total of 4GB) will work on the machine?

https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-970-EVO-Plus-pci-express-x4/dp/B07MFZXR1B/ref=dp_ob_title_ce?th=1

Is anyone running 4TB (with any brand, does not have to be this model)?

 

I don't know what you need/want/is useful, but here is what I think shows what is happening to me - you can see at 7:35:04pm, the system is going to sleep (I closed the lid).





It took a long time before the fans switched off (not normal, usually quite fast, and in my experience a sure sign this problem has occurred). I wondered if it was hibernating for some reason.
When I came back later and opened the lid and pressed the power button to start, it was a "fresh boot". System log at 9:23:52pm shows this:



Thing is, this does not happen EVERY time, usually sleep/wake is fine (though rather slow to wake). But once every ... ten or so sleep/wake cycles, this happens. (don't hold me to that number, I'm not counting).

 

Important Update
[Update from April 17, 2020]

This week we released BIOS 0064 and Thunderbolt 3 firmware update NVM v56.

These updates are intended to fix a critical bug that can cause the Thunderbolt port to stop working after a certain amount of time when used with a certain range of Thunderbolt devices.
All Thunderbolt 3 users are strongly recommended to install these updates.

We will also be distributing this information to all existing customers via email shortly.

Download Links:

• BIOS 0064
• Thunderbolt driver v60
  
• Thunderbolt firmware update NVM v56

Each download package includes a PDF file with easy-to-follow instructions.
We strongly advise everyone to install these updates and we are looking forward to your feedback!

Cheers,
Tom

 

Have just installed them.

BIOS install went exactly as described

Thunderbolt driver install ran, but told me it did not find anything to update:






Thunderbolt firmware update gave me the timeout described in the PDF -

I still went through the 30s wait with laptop shut down and unplugged (I waited closer to 5 minutes). I then booted and ran the driver update again for good measure - same thing, nothing found to be updated.



USB-C port definitely works since my external monitor is plugged into it right now. How do I check if the firmware has been updated to the new version?

 

Thunderbolt driver probably have been installed before, including the Thunderbolt Control Center. To check which version you have, you need to open the Thunderbolt Control Center app and check the about tab on the top left corner.

 

Hi everyone,

I have just purchased a XMG Fusion 15 w/ 2070mq. I have some questions;

1. Should I update all of the software/firmware? (are there some negative consequences?

2. I am well aware of using throttlestop, when it will arrive I will test it out with from -100mv to -140mv and for gaming I will limit the multiplier to 33.

3. In terms of GPU optimisation I am not that skilled, no my questions is what can I do to increase the stable and heatsoaked FPS in games?
- One factor is naturally the increase of the thermal limit, meaning increase of temp limit in ASUS tweak, my plan is to go for 82c as I plan to leave thermal headroom for deviation in ambient temperature as it is quite cold where I am currently.
-DO you have experience in tweaking? What are the results you have received. Most importantly is there a tangible benefit?

 

well, I can confirm the new 64 BIOS does not solve the problem I'm having where the system will go into sleep but end up shutting down - has happened again -

here it is showing that I'm sending it to sleep:



but the next kernel entry is that the system has booted:



There's an associated error saying the shutdown was unexpected:



Anyways, the system IS able to sleep/wake normally most of the time, here's an example previously of "normal" behaviour:



Am I the only one with this problem?

 

Hi all,

So I have spent the last two hours reviewing all 170 pages :-D! Quite the journey I must say.

Nevertheless, here goes;

1. Is ASUS Gpu Tweak 100% going to work? (According to Prema yes, but in performance mode)

2. At the limit of 87c would anybody care to share the voltage and clock they are using? The goal is to have the highest constant FPS not Firestrike. e.g. tweak at 87, 1500mhz locked at 1v.

3. For the believers among you who have the Fusion 15 are you still satisfied ?

Thanks !

 

... wow

I myself have not done that even though I'd lurked a long time. I can only say, for your last question -

overall I am happy. My only real dislike is that I'm not totally in love with the keyboard, the way I have been with my (previous-gen) Apple, ThinkPad and HP laptops:

one, I find the layout with the full-size arrow keys eating up part of the right shift key to be a problem (it might seem like a small matter to some, but there's a reason why even Apple went back to their old half-size arrow key layout with their new machines - because it matters to a lot of people. ThinkPads' offset arrow key cluster/island is also a good solution). but this seems to be one of the "standard" layouts nowadays so it appears on other laptops as well.

two, I've noticed that when I type fast sometimes some keys aren't detected for some reason. but overall I am a fast typist (not bragging) so maybe I am an edge case.

that said, I really like that this laptop does NOT have a number pad - number pads are rarely used and the tradeoff to having them is that your primary "typing area" is offset to the left abnormally. It is better that the keyboard is "centred" on the laptop/to the screen (again, another decision Apple made that is correct). I suppose it's not too big a deal for a laptop that is 17", but I've used 15" laptops that have numpads and I hate using them - involves awkwardly offsetting your arms to the left.

I think what I mean to say is, performance etc. wise this machine is fine, it's actually the "intangibles" that will determine whether there's a dealbreaker for you. I'd recommend you try to get your hands on one to play with/feel (unless where you live has liberal returns policies?).

I am pleased with the expandability of the machine (2 RAM and 2 M2 slots). I am encouraged by how there's continuing support from the vendors with new firmware (and XMG has been keeping us all informed as to status/matters - and there's an upcoming one that will allow for in-BIOS undervolting? That's awesome).

I've encountered only one real problem, that nobody else seems to have (possibly because it turns out I'm the only one still using an old graphics driver) with system crashes when I tell the machine to sleep (you would have encountered my posts about it at the tail end of your 170 page odyssey) but am hopeful that the problem has been solved (XMG made some suggestions to me, so far so good - will update in future post if this holds up)

 

Still one of the best laptops on market imho, but i have some nitpicky remarks. ISO keyboard layout is bad and the keycaps could have been better quality, I still mistype on this keyboard, especially on secondary keys etc.

 

I always reload the old fashioned way and wipe the drive and clean load. I've honestly never used "reset this PC" as I thought it just took it back to the factory image, which sucks.

 

I couldn't get it to work tbh. Always kept me at 75

 

For the moment, BIOS v64 still have the GPU locked at 75C and I don't think there are any problems with that since going all the way to 75C still makes the fans so friggin loud that I would rather not play. But i'm still getting great framerates at HIGH settings on BF V and other big games, using MSI to count the fps. Also the 75C is still better because it will help the laptop to last longer in my opinion. And for your final question, yes I am in love with this laptop, RGB keyboard with replaceable keycaps, great screen and bright, great battery (6-7 after tweaking), not a bad keyboard (i use mechanical keyboards,used to the presses, and I also use this in dekstop mode quite alot), a WEBCAM, thin and light, dual NVME, and everything is upgradeable?!. Probably only regret is the huge charger, probably going to buy a thin 180w brick from another vendor with an adapter for the head. At this point in time there is no other laptop with the best rounded specs at this price in the market. I have the Vapor 15 from Aftershock with 1660 Ti, and truthfully it is enough for me since I have a job where I have to move constantly and edit photos/videos alot.

Maybe a problem with a driver or faulty hardware/bios/ motherboard on your machine, I hope it gets fixed or replaced soon. And I love this laptop, coming from the Macbook Pro 2017, with their god awful squishy keyboards, I used that laptop for a few months because of my editing needs, but I just don't like the environment of mac and apple. Also the no numpad thing was also a big reason as to why I bought this laptop, I have huge hands and fingers so using a laptop with numpad totally sucks, I keep hitting the numpad keys when trying to press delete or enter. The touchpad though could be better (no wobble problem from mine though), coming from a mac with the great glass touchpad.

 

Go to the control center and check mark benchmark mode. The launch the gpu tweak software. It still works in bios 0064

 

That stinks. I'm still running v62 so I don't have that issue.

The below screenshot is from Battlefield V multiplayer running at 3440 X 1140 with everything set to Ultra. I'm running Asus Tweak and Control Center is set to Gaming + EluktroBoost with fan mode set to Performance. Also have it undervolted using Throttlestop. The fans are audible of course, but not unbearable to me. It's nowhere near as loud as putting it in Benchmark Mode.



I've not had any issues - I'm super impressed with this machine!

 

yes! numpad is a bad idea. I'd avoided the "butterfly" keyboard Macs (that's one of the reasons I got this, actually - I wasn't giving up on a "better" keyboard). The only real advantage Macs have now over this is that they have 16:10 screens and not 16:9 (even Dell is moving to 16:10 apparently). This machine isn't just for watching movies, so 16:9 isn't really ideal (and why is it such a problem to have small black bars above and below the image when you are watching movies anyway?).

right now, fingers crossed, things seem solved - it's a problem with the Nvidia graphics driver (XMG recommended + found a memory.dmp file, which windebug pointed to a problem with nvlddmkm.sys which is part of the Nvidia driver package). I have a suspicion it was actually blue-screening partway through the sleep process but I never see it because I'd closed the lid (to get it to sleep). Hasn't happened again since the update, fingers crossed!!

 

you might want to look at this (both the post and the comments):

https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/ebzs1n/thebestpessimists_xmg_fusion_15_review/

 

Is anyone having an issue with some of the keycaps remaining lit during sleep mode after this BIOS update?

As in, the backlighting turns off for the rest of the keyboard but a few keys still have backlighting on (in my case the "FN", "A", "Q" and "2@" keys remain lit slightly blue)

 

It's running at 1170mhz, so it's severely power throttling.

I have found that Intel didn't remove the ability to increase the Temperature-Limit, they instead prevented the PL from exceeding 90w as soon as the GPU reaches 75C°, regardless of Eluktroboost.
Which is pretty much the same as removing the ability to increase the TL but a lot more sneaky.

So I'm now forced to use 100% fans through benchmark mode to get the full 115W Eluktroboost at temperatures over 75C°.

This really sucks, as the cooling is really not an issue with the 115W PL in games that don't tax the CPU that much.
So my CPU will be at 75-80C but I still have to use 100% fans....

 

How can you confirm that they PL throttle the GPU? Historically this laptop never properly showed the power being drawn by the GPU (would show 80 - 90 W when it was actually pulling 115W). I'm currently on the latest bios and when I use the ASUS utility I can go beyond the 75C thermal limit for the GPU. Monster hunter world was playing around 75 FPS without it enabled and GPU stayed at around 1100Mhz but after I enabled ASUS utility it went up to 1500 Mhz and I did see a boost in FPS to around 85. (This is all on an external 165hz monitor with Gsync @ QHD). If the new bios truly gimp the GPU, I might flash to the old bios to test... Anyone here know which is the last version that didn't have this "throttle" assuming it's true.

 

I use the boost behavior as the main indicator for the wattage.
The wattage readings are inaccurate like you stated.

As for your case, 1100mhz is very low.
1400-1500mhz is expected for 90w depending on the game, gpu load and temperature.
To really know the effective boost speed you will need to check the speeds at 90%+ gpu load.
It should boost to 1650 - 1750 when drawing 115w, as it does when using the benchmark mode.

I start a game and use afterburner to show clocks / power and thermal throttling limits.
I leave the TL at 75C, the GPU will throttle to remain within the TL as soon as it reaches 75C, shown by the temperature indicator.
Now I raise the thermal limit to 87C and the frequency will be slightly (or way higher depending on how much it is already thermal throttling due to heat soak) higher but it is now power throttling.

The behavior is different from when it was thermal throttling.
While thermal throttling is very consistent, keeping a steady boost clock, getting lower the more heat soak occurs.
The power limit will come into effect immediately when the gpu hits 75 C so the clock will go down until it hits 74C and immediately boost to higher clocks.
This behavior continues until the heat soak prevents it from dropping under 74 C at all, and since the 90w PL is in effect it takes a long while before it actually reaches 87C.

When I then turn on the benchmark mode (while it is over 74C) the boost clock raises to the expected 115w clocks.
These 115w clocks at full load can otherwise only be reached when under 74C.

Here are the benchmarks I did with benchmark mode on and off, both with the 87C TL in place:

Benchmark mode on / off (Ultra):
Assassins Creed Odyssey: 61 / 56
Shadow of the Tomb Raider: 93 / 83
Metro Exodus: 61 / 45
Borderlands 3: 62 / 55

If you compare these results, you will find that they are pretty much what you would expect from a (fast) 2070 max-q vs an (average) 2070 max-p.

Of course I don't know if this has always been the behavior or if it got patched in some bios upgrade, but perhaps this caused the confusion with bios update 58 changing something.

 

I'll have to see for myself.

Couple of my own notes
1. Performance of this laptop degraded by 5% on some window updates.
2. Running HWinfo64 caused some performance loss in my experience. Not a lot but it did.
3. When forcing turbo off on CPU I saw some huge increase to fps in some titles. Didn't appear to be related to thermals, don't know if CPU and GPU have a shared PL envelope or something

I'll have to see what the performance is like. What bios is the past one before this "performance degradation"?

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

Hmm, the last few posts are interesting. Thanks for pointing this out, Sven. Does anyone know if EluktroBoost only works on benchmark mode? While I was in game, with Afterburner showing me stats, I noticed a few things when I would toggle between Benchmark Mode and Gaming+EluktroBoost (Performance Fan Mode). When NOT in benchmark mode, Afterburner is reporting top clock speeds of 1065mhz and the limit as POWER. While in game and toggling on Benchmark mode, I would see my clock speeds jump to around 1300+ mhz and the FPS would climb. Also, Afterburner reported the limit as TEMPERATURE and not POWER. I was doing this while in game for a while so my system was heat soaked. Another interesting piece is that my fan speeds seemed to be the same when switching between the 2 modes. I didn't confirm this, but there was certainly no audible difference. If this is true, then it would point to the GPU getting the extra juice in Benchmark mode only. Not sure why the setting in Control Center is Gaming +Eluktroboost - perhaps it's a bug?

Anyway, interesting stuff and thanks again for pointing it out.

 

@XMG Do you know if Intel implemented any changes as we have described above?

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

The way I understand it is that Gaming + Eluktroboost does enable Eluktroboost but only until the TL of 75C is reached, regardless of the actual TL that is set by ASUS GPU Tweak.
In the cases where you'd want to enable Eluktroboost (in GPU intensive games) the temperature will rise to 75C within a few seconds / minutes so the Eluktroboost is only noticable for a short duration after loading screens etc.

Enabling Benchmark Mode removes the TL of the Eluktroboost enabling it regardless of temperature.

Now that being said, the GPU does get quite hot even with the 100% fan settings (depending on CPU load) so it'll ramp up to 100% over time either way. Still, I'd prefer having eluktroboost enabled with auto fans, so I don't have to manually disable it every time I go fetch a coffee or take a break.

 

Bull, GPU is limited to 80W. If it would exceed it, it would have been able to see this in wattage measurements.

 

The software wattage measurements are incorrect, as some have already stated.

It most definitely does exceed the 80w, it will run with 90w on the Gaming + Eluktroboost profile.
In Benchmark mode (with 87C TL) it will run @90-115w as it will utilize the full Eluktroboost just like the mech-15 (or NEO 15 with overboost).

The 1600-1750 mhz core clocks under 99% load and 10-15% increased FPS would otherwise be impossible.

 

So our 3 options are
1. Decrease our temps magically
2. Find a way to dampen the fan noise
3. Revert back to bios 62 which has some thunderbolt 3 issues for those of us that use a thunderbolt 3 dock...

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

The QC7 doesn't do that. If you want to prove otherwise, show some real wattage measurements from the power outlet.

 

How about some official confirmation, will that suffice as well?

Q: What is the TGP of the NVIDIA RTX 2070 Max-Q?

A: Officially, it is 80W in Balanced profile and 90W in Enthusiast profile. You can toggle between these modes in real-time with a dedicated mode switch button. Inofficially, the TGP can go up to 115W in Enthusiast profile thanks to the Overboost mechanic, working in the background. However, those 115W may only be sustained until the system has reached thermal saturation, i.e. when the GPU is approaching the GPU Temperature Target of 75°C.

https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/d442rc/megathread_xmg_fusion_15_with_intel/

 

Yes XMG claims that, but it's still not proven. If it really boosted higher than the wattage, it would simply be read out by software applications. And if you want to prove this bogus claim, it's not properly updated into software applications, then buy a wall outlet power measuring device and show that it boosts.

 

Ok, so let me recapitulate: you don't believe the card boosts pasts 80w even though the performance and clocks are in line with those of a 115w max-p, there being official confirmations and it being a standard feature in their other laptops.
And the only way for you to believe it, is for me to go out of my way to prove it to you by measuring the power from the wall?

Alrighty .

 

Are you comparing a QC7 Max-Q vs Max-P? No, you aren't. So you can't control for extraneous variables. Clocks say nothing. I get 1800Mhz with a proper undervolt on my GPU in my environment. In another environment, you would get different clock speeds. Too many variables, you ain't controlling for.

Buy a 10$ power outlet measuring device and proof it.

 

My understanding is that hardware monitor software is not to be trusted as it is an approximation made by the software. So, "It would simply be read out by software applications" might not be true.

 

Ok, so I'm supposed to believe your unlikely 1800mhz clock @80w under 99% load, but you want proof?

You can't just brush aside the benchmark results and clock speeds saying there are too many "extraneous variables".
What are benchmarks even for then?

So basically you don't believe me, you don't believe in benchmarks and you also don't believe xmg's official confirmation.
I highly doubt you'll believe my measured power draw... but maybe I'll find the time tomorrow to measure it.


edit: I measured the power draw in shadow of the tomb raider.

It started at 210-230w until it hit 75C which was within 10 seconds, after that it stayed at ~165-180w.
When I enable benchmark mode it immediately jumps to 230w and then settles to 210-230w depending on the scene.

So pretty much what I expected...

 

Thank you for this! I'm not surprised. I mean, sitting in game and toggling Benchmark Mode on and off shows a clear difference. I guess if we wanted to get the max gaming performance we need to toggle Benchmark mode on manually. Not sure what the right answer is, but I wish we had more dials and buttons to tweak in the Bios or Command Center.

 

Now I have to come up with a mod to make the fans more quiet on Max.... Thanks intel

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

Haha, that's what I thought as well, I was already rerouting the power from the fans through a resistor in my mind .
Maybe a software workaround would be possible, but I guess the benchmark mode is a single call to make the bios switch to the no TL/PL mode.

Still, all things considered, this Laptop is awesome.
I'm very impressed with the total package, so I'm not that annoyed.

 

I think just reducing the noise from the fans would be enough and maybe a better cooling system.... Might be too much to ask but I'm open to ideas.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

Have you done any curve tuning with MSI afterburner? 1170Mhz seems pretty much stock

 

Thank you, it's really been baking my noodle on how they did this makes sense now. Was trying to figure out if the GPU is only 80 watts the CPU is 50 watts, how does this laptop draw more than 180 watts from the wall.
Do you know if this was the same in BIOS version 58? Did seem to get better performance in 58, higher temps to but now I can't get above 75C°

 

I bought a basetech energy monitor 2000 and got the same findings. 230~W Powerdraw in performance mode. HWinfo will read out 80W, then slowly it drops to 60W in hwinfo and the energy monitor will read 210W.

If I change it to normal mode it drops another 15-20W, but then it will properly show 80W.

As you said it starts at 115W, drops to 95-100W, because it can't hold more in performance mode. And in normal mode, it just holds 75-80W.

So I was wrong hehe But you always have to prove it of course.

BTW, I do get 1800Mhz steady. It starts at 2000Mhz and stays steady at 1800Mhz on this 95-100W power draw.

 

Does a laptop cooler help with temps? I was considering this laptop but after reading the last couple of pages on this thread might be rethinking things.

 

Sure, It'll help but the temps are actually fine.
If you don't expect 2070 max-p performance and just run it with the 87C Temperature Limit, it'll be as fast as any 2070 max-q.
In combination with the balanced profile, the laptop stays very quiet and cool, but it'll have a small performance hit.

I think you'll be very satisfied if you don't mind the 100% fan for 2070 max-p performance.

 

I know that it used to work at some point (mostly from Bob of all trades, own or disown and jarrodstech videos) but I'm not sure with what bios version.
My laptop came with bios version 63 as I just got it last week.

 

I'm running 62 and seeing the same behavior. So, this begs the question - how is it supposed to work? I *think* I would like to keep my settings on gaming mode/performance fan in Command Center which allows the computer to run quite when I'm not gaming. But be able to draw the most power when demanded. If I want to do that now, I HAVE to switch to Benchmark Mode which, while not awful I guess, is a manual step I would like to avoid.

Anyway, is what I described how it is supposed to, and used to, work?

 

Hey guys just want to ask how are your clock speed and score when running Cinebench R20? been stress testing and playing around, but when running R20 without tweaks I only get 2.9Ghz on all cores, which is crazy considering this is supposed to run 4Ghz all cores. BTW highest score I got was only 2578 on multi core, don't know how that scales with other QC7s;

Also I've been playing around with throttlestop to try and get 2 useful profiles, performance mode and battery mode. 1 is to get the best performance while staying cool (ya know to get best fps on 75C) and 2 is to get the best battery using undervolt, for now on normal document and streaming/browsing can get around 6hrs-ish (throttlestop stable -150mv core and - 170mv cache). For now I'm using all XMG drivers and CC because they update fastest, and on Bios 64 stuck with 75C. Another thing, playing Monster Hunter World and Battlefield 5 is great but playing on a small screen does not do these games justice, better to play on external 144hz IPS calibrated monitor.

To help with thermals on the hardware side, using a cooling pad does help through giving positive pressure on the bottom panel, and to keep the laptop opened because the laptop also draws air in from the keyboard (this is why the keyboard is nice and cool). Asking an acquaintance of mine to make a cooling pad using small server fans with adjustible 3000-5000rpms, and yes they will undoubtedly be way noisier than the laptops fans.

 

Which performance mode you're using?

 

Tried using both Performance and Balanced mode, only got around 100 point difference. The laptop also stays quite cool around 65-75C during benchmark test, had to keep the cinebench/ aida64 for over 10 minutes to get it over 80C (although I can open BF V or MHW and hit that easily. Since the GPU isn't active, the GPU heatsink helps cool the CPU

 

Hey guys im wondering if you can help me out. I just brought the Vapor 15 pro with the 2070maxQ and I feel like my performance is really low compared to videos ive seen.

Ive undervolted the core and cache 0.125 but when I play overwatch I barely get 100fps maxed settings while others are getting 150+. My GPU core seems to fluctuate a lot bouncing from 1200 to 1540 and im getting power throttling.

Ive tried playing with the curve but still I feel the performance is rather low. I also cant remove the 75deg limit with gpu tweak. Bios 0.62.