Intel-TongFang QC7 (Element/Fusion 15/MAG-15/Vapor 15 Pro)

That's a good question. How much of a compromise are we willing to make for G-Sync.
Honestly, don't know how difficult it is for OEMs to incorporate a MUX switch. How much it adds to cost, size, bios modifications.. But people looking to buy a gaming laptop are looking for best gaming experience they can get for their buck (therefore all this commotion about gpu thermal limit on MAG-15). G-Sync adds a lot to this experience, and I am convinced that a lot of us would be ready to pay extra for this option. Especially with MQ laptops offering little performance gains for the money, for the same price, I'd pick a lower tier graphic card with G-Sync over a higher tier one without it. I really believe that any gaming laptop should come with G-Sync option.
I am looking for a new laptop now, and G-Sync is the only reason I might end up with GX502GV instead, with all of it's shortcomings and price difference. Let's see what Black Friday brings us.
Mag-15 with G-Sync would simply crush the competition.
@ B0B, thank you for your honest work. The most useful information I got during my laptop search came from you.
If you are in a position to influence Eluktronics, and if you agree on G-Sync subject, maybe you could push to include it in future models. It would be good for their business, too.

 

Well it's certainly true that internal display cannot do G-Sync. And that is a drawback. However in order to actually get that feature, you need a Mux switch to be included within the laptop. Which it isn't. So the absence of a Mux switch is considered more of the drawback there. There is so much else not wrong / not missing / not bad on this machine. Indeed what else to add, except for that handy mux switch? There are very few other incremental missing feature(s) can they possibly add to next year's revision. So a mux switch would rank very highly at or near the top of that list.

Such a mux switch (which is currently missing) would then also allow for the possibility for the mobile G-Sync along with that. There are also other specific benefits to the mux switch.

For this revision of the laptop you can still use G-Sync on an external display. Just not the internal one / in a truly mobile gaming scenario. Which is what it's competitor, the Lenovo Y740 has.

Couldn't agree more

 

^^ the Y740 looks like a desktop replacement compared to the MAG. I’m not trying to sound like a Legion hater at all as I find that laptop one of the few if only to have offered MUX with Gsync in a relatively small form factor.

The MAG chassis really does tick so many boxes it’s hard not to want to best from it, trust me I get it.

I’ll see what would stop a future version from having a MUX. I have a hunch it’s not something that TongFang offers. Sadly very few laptops offer this anymore.

If you prioritize unplugged run times, small, lightweight hardware and a competitive price for those features then the MAG should be number 1 on your list.

Here was a poll taken long ago on people’s preferences on battery run time.

 

@B0B, I'm going to need you to go have a cup of coffee and get to work on those review videos. I'm always itching to get new hardware to mess around with, and right now this is about the only thing that interests me enough to replace my Aero15...

 

Are you in my house because that’s exactly what’s about to happen lol.

I’ve got one hour before I have to leave for my normal job then host a small community boot camp.

You’ll probably appreciate the details in the OP probably more than the review.

 

I don't think the absence of Gsync is a big deal in this laptop. It is mostly targeted at mobile users, with large battery capacity, so it is better and perfectly fine to use Optimus and rely on Intel GPU when you do not play games. Especially if you do not like loud fans.
I have used a laptop with Gsync monitor in the past, I actually disabled it and enabled Optimus on it because it made laptop much more quiet for all non gaming tasks, the performance loss was absolutely worth it for me since I do not like using headphones for anything.

 

The lack of a MUX switch and therefore lack of G-Sync on this laptop is a killer for me so far. I really love the looks, size, and weight of this device but saving $2 a laptop to skip a simple inclusion of a MUX makes me scratch my head. It's a GAMING laptop. If you want battery life, and neutered performance go get yourself a nice XPS or Lenovo slim and light. Optimus causes issues with degraded performance, disables many Nvidia control panel options and features of your very expensive dGPU, causes issues with screen tearing ( @B0B ) has a really good video on this issue and I've seen it myself when recently shortly owning an MSI GS75 with 2070 max-Q. I found that the screen tearing can be solved somewhat fixed with use of RTSS scanline sync but that isn't a perfect solution in all situations. Use of V-Sync causes nasty input lag which isn't ideal either. A simple MUX like Lenovo includes (even on their non G-Sync laptop) allows best of both worlds. I would have loved to pick up this device as I've found myself looking for something more portable for my daily travel/airport laptop, but the temp limit and lack of G-Sync have me wanting to continue to wait. Laptop RTX itself has been largely disappointing performance wise over Pascal, but the lack of simple features is a turn off. I don't get why a company can't just create a device that has TB3, non-soldered ram, decent cooling with ease of access via a easily removable bottom panel, a mux switch for dGPU or iGPU with G-Sync optional upgrade, an a simple/clean design similar to the Mag 15.

 

Well here is the problem exactly with these different views: It's not actauly about either mode being the best mode, the better mode, or the preferred mode. It's entirely about the fact that each way has it's own different set of pros and cons. Which is really only ever going to be solvable by a Mux switch. There will always be those users who are mostly using as optimus, and there will also always be those other group of users who are mostly using the thing in dGPU mode with G-Sync. It is literally the only way to please everybody.

And this is especially [even more so] the case when: even if I am a single user who has a strong preference for one mode. Then I end up using a new piece of software, or if I start taking the laptop to work with me as part of a commute etc. Then it turns out I need very much so to switch over and start using that other mode.

So if you [the manufacturer] are not going to include the mux switch then please at least honestly tell us what the reason for that were. And whether or not you will be reviewing that decision and/or be trying to work on it going forwards. Or what really the barriers / obstacles are. Be it something proprietary related. Cost reasons. Or is it simply something like: Lack of experience of the ODM (Tongfang here) never doing it in any previous products with a mux switch, complexity or reliability concern, lack of PCB space, etc. We want to know!!!!

Because this is something that competing products DO already do. They already include that Mux switch for several generations now.

This then helps to get a more reasonable consumer reaction / reception. And that reaction will better take into consideration those same constraints which you are facing as the manufacturer. It also helps to highlight the kinds and the level of engineering that goes into making such a complicated product.

And same goes [to Intel, if you are even actually listening of monitoring this forum here]: about the GPU temp limit... It is better to share some actual evidence of that testing with the consumer - this will foster a better reaction. It then becomes a very much simpler situation. To think along those terms about what is actually of value to share, and else is not worth value enough to share.

We definitely do not trust large companies, especially ones with a history such as Intel. Even if your specific deptartment is internally really great - well then you need to show us that. And prove that you actually have the consumer's interests truly also at heart.

 

Have you tried this tool? Removal of GPU Thermal Limit

 

I don't think it is. If it was a "GAMING" laptop - there would not be a 74c thermal limit for GPU. A thermal limit which is easy to bump into, this video shows this:


And bumping into thermal limit can easily cause about 10% performance decrease in games. For example, here are 2 screenshots which I made on different laptop but which still apply since the hardware is the same. The first one is made when running Metro Exodus benchmark with GPU limited to 74c and making sure the GPU reaches this point and starts to downclock:



The second screenshot is with GPU thermal limit raised to 87c and making sure that GPU never thermally throttles:



Now calculate the difference in percentage when looking at the Min FPS.




This is not a "Gaming" laptop - it is mostly for people who do stuff while not connected to AC or travel a lot in general, with an option to run some games. There isn't even a 240hz display option (which is offered by Dell, Asus, Gigabyte, Sager and others) or 2080 Max-q GPU option. I am not trying to defend it or attack it, just saying what it really is.

 

I would classify it as a thin and light gaming laptop, you can call it whatever you want. The lack of 240hz screen or 2080 doesn't really change that for me. Especially when compared to other thin and light gaming laptops with a 2080 max-q that doesn't run any better than a 2070. In my opinion, it's no less a gaming laptop than the Alienware M15, especially the R2.

 

Of course, different people will have different opinions. Technically you can run games like WoW even on Intel 630 GPU integrated into 9750h CPU - I tested it, it runs acceptably above 30fps at lowest setting ;-) So you can even call any laptop without dedicated Nvidia or AMD GPU a "gaming" laptop ;-)

As for Alienware M15 R2, I wish I actually had same hardware but in a less ugly chassis. It has better cooling than Dell G7 because it has air intakes from above and comes with full 240w power supply and the excellent 240hz display panel (according to Dell's own documents it has faster response rate, higher contrast and lower power consumption than the 140hz display panel that Dell uses in same models). All it needs is a proper repaste to take care of all thermal issues. Unfortunately it looks like something which a 12-year-old kid who plays Fortnite and watches Ninja would buy and I don't like that ;-)
The only other good alternative is new Gigabyte Aero 15, which has same hardware in elegant chassis but which unfortunately costs too much.

 

Exactly! Seems to be a really good product for a good price. That's what makes it worse. It's like producing a great sports car, that can almost match Porsche performance, offering more features for half the price, and then deciding to sell it exclusively in avocado green color.
I could go with a bit more weight, a bit smaller battery, a few nits less, carry an sd card/rj45 adapter around, live with nose-cam or no-cam, but I can not carry an extra display with me.
Is G-Sync THAT important? No. But important enough for me to consider paying 300 USD more for a lesser laptop.

There are laptops you can play games on, and there are gaming laptops. There are beautiful ultrabooks you can get for half the price, that will give you insane battery life and portability, and you can still reasonably play games on their MX150 or similar on 60HZ screens for the next the few years. Nothing wrong with that. But it's by far not the same market.
Have someone game on a 1660ti laptop with G-Sync and on a same laptop with 2080MQ and no G-Sync. The latter being some 1000USD more expensive, I wonder which one he would pick as a better gaming experience.
Asus and Acer now include MUX switch only in their most expensive models. I am inclined to believe that it's the only way to add value and manage to sell overpriced and unnecessary features to people like me. Makes sense business-wise.
If MAG-15 supported G-Sync, I wouldn't be eagerly expecting B0B's review, wondering about the temp limit impact, weighing my options, waiting for discounts. This thing would be in my cart immediately. Either version.
Sorry for the long rant, this should be a great product that has it almost all. It could have been so easy.

 

Like I said, I have old laptop with Gsync, I disabled it - the performance loss was insignificant, I did not notice any issues like tearing or anything (but then again, I like to play with maximum settings and I don't play FPS multiplayer games like CS:GO, Apex and similar ones so I don't see FPS going over 100fps in most games) and decrease in fan noise was appreciated in every other program outside of games. This is why I said it's not a big deal for me. And like I said above, TongFang mostly targets it at users who will not bother with rebooting to disable Optimus because battery life would be most important for them, same way as Gigabyte Aero 15. I know some people would want to use it and some would not even mind rebooting the laptop each time they want to switch to Optimus but TongFang and Intel just decided those actual gamers are not worth implementing this feature for. Just like they decided to limit GPU to 75c on this supposedly "gaming" laptop (something that even Dell does not do on their G7 series, with tiny side heatsinks and side air exhausts, thermal throttling on EACH and EVERY unit with stock thermal paste and 180w power supply).

So yea, I understand that some gamers would want to use Gsync option but TongFang and Intel just decided that they are not their target users so they did not implement it. As simple as that ;-)

 

I guess you are right with this, take it or leave it. And judging from B0B's poll in post #203, my view on G-Sync value would be in minority. Maybe I'm just being childish and irritated by not being able to get what I want.

 

Regardless I think having a mux switch would be the best option.

Want optimus, switch to it. Want G-sync, switch to it.

 

Only problem with the GX502GV are the extremely loud fans under load, most laptops in this class max out to around 50Db but according to notebookcheck max out at 56Db which is enough to drown out the speakers.
I think Gsync adds real value to a laptop, I would never buy one without it unless it blows all other laptops away, performance and temps wise.

 

I am also curious to see if this works. Mine will not arrive before the third week of October, so hopefully a reviewer does this assessment.

 

Truly the purpose of us making a critique here about 'what is missing from the Mag 15' should be to provide the most helpful and meaningful manufacturer feedback. That we possibly can.

The current first revision of this product: That hardware cannot be changed now, because they have already set the design (months ago). And the GPU temp limit for all intents and purposes seems to be locked in a signed BIOS. So unless someone changes their mind / feels generous to release an 'unofficial overclocking bios' later on down the line. They we are not very likely to be unlocking that either.

This feedback is purely meant so that when these teams of people work on the next version (rev 2). That they:

A) Have some job left to do there, to improve the product over last years model.

B) Can focus a priority on considering making those changes that users clearly actually want. Rather than destroying an already good product by doing things like what Apple has done with this laptops, etc.

This list very long... perhaps 5 items or less:

* Mux switch, with G-SYNC

* 87°C temp limit - sorry but that issue is massive and has to be revisited. And the bad PR / press from that is not actually ever going to go away

* Fixing whatever issues come up with the revision 1 model

* RTX 2060 level sku: because the price jump up to the 2070 is far too unreasonable when it's performance has been completely gimped. and OTOH because the 1660ti is reasonable but has no RTX feature set going forwards. However this 'missing SKU' matter may just solve itself if the future NVIDIA skus all include RTX

* 2nd incoming charging circuit (at 60w) on the Thunderbolt port. To charge at a slower rate. This feature already exists in many Dell products. The dual charging from either port. Would be nice for extra practicality. Then we could connect an external usb-c power bank for extending the battery time to something that was... really bonkers.

That last point is also pretty great for anybody who does not actually want to carry around multiple extra chargers for all their devices. We heard it was an option but you didn't want to risk it in the 1st gen product... well now you can work on developing it for 2nd generation instead.

So check off those 5 boxes above. And then you guys [Tongfang and Friends] will then have complete and total domination in this class. In only 1 year. And it will be total a game changer. Because then nobody is going to be able to pick holes at it. It will be truly no-compromises.

And the list is intentionally short, because then each item needs to be getting the full attention that it deserves. And some of those, what I would call 'big ticket items' are going to be more difficult to solve than other ones.

If you have further time and resources to improve this product then great! But please don't in the process end up loosing sight of those main goals. And then you never know - perhaps I might end up buying one after all

Clearly the point is not to increase your sales count by +1. There is a broader objective to make an unassailable product, that will just completely destroy the competition in all circumstances.

 

Ohh, there are much more than those "5 boxes" that need to be checked to make it a no-compromises. For example, better display options - when I was selecting my laptop, I specifically chose 240hz Sharp IGZO panel, not because of refresh rate (this is not very useful) but for other things, like lower power consumption and faster response rate compared to 144hz panel (at least according to Dell's own specifications - 144hz panels can also come with different response rate and power consumption depending on supplier). Right now I am fully satisfied with this panel - it looks great after calibration (with 98% sRGB color coverage according to the calibrator) and has almost no noticeable backlight bleeding (much better than on any other panel I've seen before). Some might be willing to go for OLED panel, even at 60hz it offers superior contrast ratio that some might prefer for watching movies or editing videos or photos. Also better GPU selection - other manufacturers offer 2080 Max-q which performs better than 2060 or 2070 Max-q but consumes same amount of power (or can be set to consume more, like Razer does). If you call your laptop "gaming" - it does not make sense to offer such limited GPU selection. Maybe better speaker location - Razer is basicaly the only one company which puts top-firing speakers into compact laptop, which is sad. A lot of people put their laptops on soft surfaces or pads which distort the sound or absorb it, making bottom-firing speakers almost unusable. Also, a better utility which controls power limit - look at the Gigabyte utility on latest Aero 15, you can manually select 5 different power limits for CPU and 2 different power limits for GPU. Or how about adding better battery charging controls, where user can select how fast the battery charges and what is the maximum charging level (for example 80% if you want to make battery last longer and you mostly use your laptop connected to AC power outlet).

Of course, one can always argue "but most people don't care about those", which is a fair point. And which is, I guess, what the TongFang and Intel was based their design upon and most likely won't ever change it in future. Luckily there are always other options, which might cost more but offer many of those features (unfortunately there is still no perfect laptop which would combine all of them).

 

@Felix_Argyle, you're right, there is no perfect laptop for everyone. The G7 is too big for me and the 60whr battery far too small (no way I'd spend $2500 just to get the 90whr). It's nice they have lots of options, but the price really jumps if you want a 2080 ($700). Dell really lost points with me when they changed the XPS performance after I reviewed the unit and refuses to change it back. Your 98% sRGB is nice, but my 144hz screen does 99.5%, so I still don't see the advantage of the 240hz (I don't know about the power consumption, I wonder how more power your iGPU works to drive it)... Anyway, I think we've derailed this thread enough, we can leave it here.

 

Look: I absolutely agree that it's a great panel. It really is better. The reasons it did not make that list is more complicated to put into words. And is multi-faceted:

* Because they have to reselect the panel anyway for G-Sync certification. And that was already a part of my 1st point.
* Because to insist on the 240hz IGZO is specifically more expensive. So that is why you find most other brands only offer it as an option in specific configurations. Allongside other configurations with lower refresh panels. (same goes for OLED 60hz).
* Because it's not clear why I cannot buy that panel myself and install it myself, if I really had a lot of money and wanted to get it into this laptop. If I am obsessed by the difference in quality. And have the extra money to spend on it. (which I would have had to spend anyway if it was otherwise offered a manufacturer provided option).
* Because adding more different SKUs / configuration options is not something I am actually asking for. I am specifically only asking for things that should be in base configurations of the laptop. All versions of it, that everybody can benefit from. And not only to those who can afford to pay. That is actually against the goal of making the best possible laptop for all. If people have to pay significantly extra like that.

All those little reasons why the actual panel choice is not something I think is possible for us to insist upon so simply. It has a fundamentally different set of obstacles. Some of which they cannot control. What if apple buys all those panels up? There are multiple such issues related to sourcing specific types of panels.

Wheras those 5 points are things they can definitely work on themselves to put into this laptop. And don't depends so much on another outside supplier, etc.

Of course we would all like for the 240hz IGZO panel to become cheaper and more broadly available. To the point where it's not significantly more expensive than a 144hz panel. That would then become a no-brainer. But somehow I don't think that is going to happen so soon as *next year*. Maybe give it 2-3 years. Or other new panels might come along that are also really great. Well... when we can have that, then we will eventually have that.

Also I have to comment that some of the best 144hz IPS ones (whilst not as good as the IGZO) are still not actually that bad at all. It depends which specific 144hz panel they choose.

I don't want to have to repeat myself here. So clearly some of the same reasons / thinking that applied above to the 240hz IGZO. They also apply here.

And do you really think that a 2080MQ is cost effective for most people? No it definately is not.

So yes, if they end up expanding the number of skus for that 1% of the rich who can afford to buy something that does not deliver value / performance for such a massive premium. Then of course they might make a version with a 2080MQ. But first of all I'd rather have them work on these missing features instead. Features that actually benefit everybody. And most other people agree after seeing the real terms difference gaming benchmarks.

In other words:

I don't need to waste bullet points telling them that. And how much extra performance do you think you'll be getting for that extra premium over a properly eluktroboosted 2060? It's probably not as much as you think. Not enough to be worth risking / sacrificing the other features which are entirely missing from the laptop.

For a chassis as small as the mag 15, there simply is not any internal physical space to produce a really good sound. The physics does not support that. Even if they were top firing or whatever other clever tricks. Then we are talking turning something really crappy into something really mediocre at best. Just forget it man. We will always get way better audio quality from a decent external audio solution. And that is a fact that is simply never going to change.

Mag 15 clearly has very limited internal space. Which is much better used for providing more important things such as it's: 94 WH battery. And the two m.2 slots. And a decent heatsink / fans. There is absolutely no room to make good something internally, that you should instead buy as external accessory.

Also a higher ambient noise floor is going to absolutely kill the quality of any internal speakers. At least in this category / size class.

Personally I would recommend:

* Use a decent bluetooth speaker instead
* There is a newer bluetooth standard this has 30ms latency
* The quality is going to be a million times better
* If I need 0ms latency then i can get a speaker that also has an aux input for the 3.5mm jack

So is it really worth quibbling about iproving the internal speaker? Well my perspective is: no, because we have more important things to ask for / request. If they were to try to work on the internal speakers, the results would still be so 'meh'. So so 'meh'. It's pretty much a waste of their valuable time. When they could be working on mux switches, USB-C charging circuits and such like.

I agree that the software is important too. And all fine to talk about in much more details. Just let's be clear that when we do that it isn't meant to be a part of that same list of hardware based feature requests, for going into a future hardware revision.

Now that the current Mag 15 is already released. Of course we all hope that they will continue to improve the software for the current / existing model. That hard work should naturally just carry over to also benefit the next year's model.

 

Update 2 in the OP. I'm not sure how long i'll be able to keep that unlisted video up at this point.

 

Thanks bob. So tuning it stocked is better than increasing temp limit. Sounds like Intel did a good job so far.

 

I really appreciate your work and all the stress you put on yourself! Thank you very much! I just watched your thermal video, it's more or less exactly what I thought. Intel won't have set the limit without reason and sufficient testing, they want to get the most out of it as well, without too many side effects.
What surprises me is that, maybe I just overheard it, but you didn't talk about propping up the laptop. For example with the X-Stand you recommended in your EVOC PB51EF-G Review. Since it makes other laptops cooler in some degrees Celcius, I wonder if it's not the case here? Or have you tried propping it up, and it doesn't really do anything, because the air is partly soaked in through the keyboard?
Again, thank you very much for all your efforts!
I can't wait for the real review!

 

Fantastic video. Covered exactly what I wanted to find out. Hope you can get properly rewarded for this, I think you just upped the laptop's sales by a fair amount.
Shame the video will not go public as it deserves, but better to keep it low profile..
OT: I'm by far no expert, but would it be a good idea to have a total temp limit for cases like this, set by Intel? Like Tcpu+Tgpu<=165C? And then throttle both by same percentage. Would keep the chassis temps all the same.

 

That X prop is always tested but rarely needed. That particular Clevo chassis designed its rubber feet incorrectly and that’s why I recommend it for that particular laptop.

 

It’s more about the wattage that produces the heat that you feel. A 90c Intel CPU at 45w produces less heat than a 75c GPU at 80w.

Hopefully that makes sense.

 

I appreciate the video and feedback on the thermals. I have ordered a 1660 ti from XMG as I am not after an extreme gaming laptop as I don't do it that often, so the extra performance is nothing to me (I am coming from a 950). More important is noise and thermals because if my wife is annoyed... I don't play.

Keep up the good work B0B

 

btw, I found a much easier way to undervolt a GPU rather than manually putting down each node in MSI afterburner. If you hold shift and click, you can highlight a bunch of nodes. Then, if you click one of the nodes to show how much frequency it's gaining from the base curve, you can press shift + enter to manually set the frequency (pressing enter on its own changes the offset at each point, not the frequency itself). This puts all the highlighted nodes at that specific frequency!

 

"not a balls to the wall gaming machine" sums it up pretty good Fitting expression and also an amazing video, thanks for all Bob. @ Shere Khaan hope you'll share some info about your XMG after it arrives. I am waiting for the Christmas sales, hopefully they shed 100-150 EUR off

 

Thanks for the update Bob. Do you know how loud the laptop is while gaming with the balanced and gaming profiles set through the control center? Is the throttling any worse using these profiles?

 

Honestly what I recommend is just locking the frequency and the voltage pressing control – L. Only doing that with gaming and when you’re not gaming don’t even run MSI afterburner at all.

Temps will always be the same as the fan table scale to thermals and that’s a fixed thing.

The only way to maximize thermals is to use the Benchmark mode (MAG 15 only has this as it’s already breaking the dB limit preference set by Intel or Nvidia) as this will max everything out including the fan speed then tune from there as revealed in that “video”.

Max dB is 52 and once the maximum temperature threshold has been met, 75c/90c the decibels will also be at 52.

Good question and it’s one of those things that’s probably not going to get discussed in this level of detail in the review just for the sake of flow and time for the review.

 

Yeah I thought about waiting too, but I would then be waiting for ice-lake too at that point, and the 100 euro saving on win pro 10 was enough to get me there

 

I think this a very interesting comparison: MAG 15 vs. PB51EF-G.
I'd like to hear some words about that aswell - in all aspects - in the review or here. @B0B, as you reviewed and rated the PB51EF-G pretty good already, could you elaborate on that and give some comparison of your view?

I figured out the thing with Alt+Click&Hold and used it to pull the line under the to-be-fixed point (this created an ugly 2nd line above the set one btw.), but always thought there must be a way to manually set the frequency.
Thanks for this!

After watching some GPU undervolting video of you I thought this wouldn't be a permanent "fix" of the gpu undervolt. So I prefered setting the curve all nice and clean. But thats good to know!
Also, thanks for your work on all of this, very appreciated and looking up to your video review!

 

Thanks for the video, @B0B it shows exactly what I thought and what you also said - this is not a real gaming laptop, this is a laptop for people who like to move a lot and depend on battery and who occasionally play some games which are not GPU-intensive and which do not use modern GPU features ;-) Meaning no playing Metro: Exodus on highest settings, or playing BF5 with RTX enabled on highest setting, or playing Control with RTX enabled. Or any other game which can dip below 30fps and where a 10% performance drop will be noticeable. No wonder 2080 Max-q is not available.

Oh, and Intel's reason that "enabling higher thermal limit will make external temperature too hot so it is better to disable it for everyone" is a total BS. First of all, they could do what I have seen some other manufacturers do - put a heat shield on the middle area (a sheet of plastic) instead of large air intake. Second of all, I have several laptops with metal back cover, some do get very hot when playing games with laptop on my lap, I just put a piece of cloth between my legs and middle area which takes care of the issue. And of course people who play games with laptop placed on the desk will never be affected by this.
Anyway, thanks for such thorough testing, this is much better than other YouTube shills who just rush their reviews and afraid to criticize the free review samples in any way.

 

But isn't that the reason for this whole class of laptop? At the $2k range, you are not going to get anything comes close to a DTR. The better question is can this laptop play "passably" until the travelling owner can get back home his/her desktop or DTR. Laptops are the worst investment one can make. They will be constrained despite the best efforts to work around. In the end, they are BGA laptops. Buy them. Use them like shuttle heat tiles. Throw it out for a new one.

My question would be as a traveler this laptop or an MSI GL65? The fact that Newark Delaware is less than 2 hours from where I live is extremely enticing.

 

Hm, so max fans will pretty much always be on for any demanding game (since the 90c/75c CPU/GPU threshold will be hit)? That's a shame...

 

Hey, @B0B !

First: thank you for your hard work on this and every other review!

Second: have you tried using MSI Afterburner to set the temp limit instead of ASUS GPU Tweak II?

 

German review from NBC
https://www.notebookcheck.com/Schen...es-mit-der-Konkurrenz-aufnehmen.434626.0.html

 

Thanks for the awesome video. Really appreciate all the perturbations and things you tried out there.

What a day!

The MAG15 strikes me as an interesting compromise between devices like the ThinkPad X1 Extreme Gen 1 or Dell XPS 15 7590 and gaming devices such as the Legion Y740. Seems like the sweet spot for me between more performance than a Dell XPS 15 7590 and better battery life than a Legion Y740 below 2k.

 

The Aftershock Vapor 15 Pro also has Benchmark Mode enabled. It seems all systems have it (as per Intel specification) but it can be hidden from the end user by the OEM. @XMG provided information regarding it:

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They both seem to be targeted to two different audiences: one prioritizing performance and the other, mobility.

 

I am not expecting desktop performance from any laptops, especially the thin ones. And I certainly do not consider them as good investment. It's just other manufacturers like Gigabyte are able to allow more user options for adjusting performance, without putting ridiculous thermal limitations, while also keeping their laptops portable (perhaps not as portable as this one but close enough) and with very large battery capacity. Shame that TongFang decided to partner with Intel who does not want to allow the users to do that - like I said, every user has different ways of using a laptop and some won't care if the back area gets hot.

This is a bad comparison. My friend has PB51EF, it is a much more heavy and more thick, with average battery capacity and it is a true gaming laptop, with 114w 2070 GPU with 87c thermal throttle limit. A more proper comparison would be with new Gigabyte Aero 15 with non-OLED display.

Interesting. It looks like this is not the best option if you value the battery life when comparing it with other laptops with 2070 Max-q.

Oh, and if I am translating it correctly, the display contrast looks really, really bad. I wonder if this is a defective display. Hopefully MAG-15 panels will not have similarly bad contrast.

 

It's all depends from users needs and preferences.
Interesting price/performance value, but mediocre display.
Just OK for gaming laptop, but not even close to XPS 15 1080p display in terms of color accuracy, contrast, brightness and viewing angles.

 

Hmm the battery seems underwhelming compared to the Alienware m15 and other thin & light models... I don't like to downgrade in battery life. Do you think with tuning this laptop can reach the battery life of competitors like triton 500?

 

Most "review" user battery testing is total crap anyway.

 

For reference what do you think about notebookcheck's battery testing?

I think their WiFi test is pretty accurate.

 

Video has been approved to go live with a small tweak in the beginning.

I have discovered a bug that allows the performance profile button to act as a max fan button only. This also explains Dave2d's video and i'm going to talk about that in an upcoming video as well as revealing how to make that button act differently.

 

Did the twitch stream already happen? I think I might have missed it.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

I didn’t get to jump on. Eluktronics called and gave me the green light on something and earlier today I discovered a bug that allows the performance profile button to act as a dedicated max fan button. This has been haunting me for three weeks and I finally figured it out.

On top of that, it sort of explains Dave2d’s review thermals to an extent.