Intel-TongFang QC7 (Element/Fusion 15/MAG-15/Vapor 15 Pro)

I see, quick question since I know you don't sugar coat things.

Alienware m15 r1 with 2080 Max q vs mag 15 with 2070 Max q with electroboost

1.Would I get similar performance on the mag 15 (I know you have 1660ti but you know their electroboost first hand)
2. Is the mag 15's fans louder than m15 on Max fans?
3. Does the thunderbolt 3 port on the back support gsync on external monitor with display port adapter?
4. Does raising the back lower temps any further?
5. Does the screen look any worse than the other 144hz panels? I see some talk of pretty mediocre contrast

Thank you for all the work you do on these reviews and I don't expect you to know all these answers off the top of your head but thank you again for all your great content.

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Is there any particular reason you're considering the Alienware? There are superior options at its price point.

And I'd estimate that a 125w Eluktroboosted 2070 would be roughly on par with a 90w 2080 Max-q. So faster than the 80w 2080 Max-q found in the Alienware. (115w 2070 = 80w 2080MQ)

Edit: Forgot to mention that this is assuming neither of them are thermal throttled. Though the m15 r1 has bad cooling and the Mag 15 has a lower thermal throttle point so that might still make them roughly equivalent.

 

Alienware m15 r1 uses 90w 2080 Max q, the Alienware m15 r2 uses 100w 2080 Max q.

Alienware has a lot going for it in my opinion.

1. Has numpad (only aero has numpad)
2. Excellent build quality
3. Quiet fans at Max (only razerblade, msi GS65, Triton 500 are quieter)
4. Alienware graphics amp (less overhead than thunderbolt 3)
5. Dell support can send technician to my house to do repairs rather than sending in for RMA for a month
6. Easy to repaste (unlike Triton 500, msi GS65, Asus zephyrus)
7. Large battery (Lenovo y740 and zephyrus lose here)
8. Ports on back (like to keep my setup clean)
9. Good 144hz IPS panel with decent colors and contrast
10. Alienfx (underrated but I like having my keyboard lights react to what happens on screen. )

There are flaws in the Alienware I agree but at the end of the day we all have different needs/wants from our devices.

Flaws in other devices
1. Aero 15 (ports on the side, lowest performance 2080 Max q, web cam on bottom)
2. Msi GS65 (ports on the side, build quality is lacking, flipped motherboard, no numpad)
3. Lenovo y740 15"(small battery, don't like keyboard being shifted to right, web cam at the bottom, only up to 2080 Max q, no numpad)
4. Asus zephyrus (small battery, ports on side, no thunderbolt 3, no webcam)
5. Triton 500 (flipped motherboard, no numpad, ports on side, no keyboard lighting sdk)

Mag 15 ticks a LOT of boxes but I have a few concerns
1. Gsync to external display ( I saw xmg representative say yes but I want confirmation from actual owner)
2. No numpad (might not be deal breaker if keyboard is really good)
3. Display (might not look as good as current Alienware offerings, contrast really helps make games like dark souls look great)
4. No keyboard rgb sdk
5. Are the fans louder than Alienware m15?
6. Thermal throttle limit on gpu might put damper on electroboost
7. Low volume speakers (Alienware and Lenovo are louder and sometimes I watch anime with my wife on my laptop)

I like to play fps from time to time so 144hz is good but I do also play some rpg or sandbox games from time to time also which makes having a good display also a concern.

I also plan to install Linux on my machine for my machine learning projects and Alienware actually has a community made project to let you control rgb in Linux which is awesome. I know they worked something similar for mech 15 but there is no garuntee it'll happen for mag 15.

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Oh you're talking about the R2. You mentioned R1 previously.

In any case, thats a solid choice. I didn't know its a 100w part though, are you sure about that?

As for dell's graphics amp or any external gpu solution for that matter, it's still just 4x pcie 3.0 lanes in the end and will bottleneck anything faster than a 2070.

With Eluktroboost the 2070 Max-q is actually faster than regular 2070s so I wouldn't actually consider it a Max-q at that point.

 

No I am talking about the r1, I just wanted to mention the r2 is a 100w 2080 Max q. I hate the Alienware m15 r2 because motherboard is flipped AND most of the components are soldered and none upgradeable... What a step in the wrong direction.

Yes I am sure, multiple reviewers have stated the Alienware m15 r1 indeed has the 90w 2080 Max q.

The Alienware graphic amp has 10% more performance than thunderbolt 3 solutions when you play GPU demanding games. I mean this isn't a deal breaker but it's something to take note. I don't care too much about losing performance as much as I want at least a thunderbolt 3 dock that I hook my laptop into and my laptop is connected to and egpu enclosure that's already hooked up to external monitor with gsync (ultrawide), mechanical keyboard and possibly some peripherals.

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I wouldn't say the max fan noise is quiet. ~50dBA is audible

IDK about AW but they might outsource the 144Hz panel to several vendors, also panel lottery.

Also who would buy 2080MQ laptop. Unless it's a really good deal.

 

I mean black Friday coming up so there's that . I know 50 db is audible but the fan nose at 50 db for the alienware doesn't emit a whine or high pitch noise and 55 db to me is way too loud (thats like 50% louder if I'm not mistaken since every 10 db is twice as loud) and it's wife approved at 50 db at most.

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Max Fan Bug tested and shared with the community. I have a hunch this is why Dave's results were very promising.

 

The battery lifetime results of Notebookcheck do not align with our internal data.
We got 8 hours of 1080p Youtube playback over Wifi at medium LCD brightness - our test is very similar to the one from Notebookcheck.

I have the suspicion that there was a bug triggered. We currently expect updates from Intel on these 3 items:

1) Improve Idle power consumption in certain situations. One of them is a situation where dGPU does not automatically switch to OFF. This might have caused Notebookcheck's shorter battery lifetime
2) Improve compatibility with certain USB-C/DP adapters
3) Improve reporting of CPU TDP/PL1/PL2 in system monitoring tools (might lead to slight adjustments in our CPU performance profiles; tba)

Meanwhile, we have started shipping the first units yesterday and today. I hope we'll see some user reviews coming in soon.

Edit:

We can not confirm Notebookcheck's display measurement data. We have sent 2 MP review units to them. They had a contrast of 1029 and 1161:1 respectively, according to our own measurements, taken just hours before shipping. We use the same X-Rite device for taking these measurement. We have tried to align with NBC and stamp out any other potential reasons (Windows, drivers, settings) but have not found anything. This is the first time we have a review unit with this particular editor at NBC. Currently we must assume some other reason of why this editor got this kind of data. Keep in mind, the editors of NBC are spread out over many countries so they can't easily check each other's work. Nevertheless, we have no control over what they publish and now we just have to run with it.

NBC will return those 2 units to us and we will measure them again, for the 2nd time. Meanwhile we have measured dozens of MP units over the last few weeks and not a single one ever had contrast below 900:1, most had well above 1000:1. Intel confirmed with us that they apply the same quality standard to every unit that leaves the factory.

We will continue to monitor this, but just as every other reviewer has pointed out: this laptop is using the same responsive and bright BOE panel as in XMG FUSION 15 and other laptops. This particular implementation employs no PWM flickering and has only a very minimal amount of backlight bleeding. In general, in my personal assesment, there is no cause for alarm.

For regular updates, check out our subreddit. // Tom

Cheers,
XMG|Tom

 

I should be getting mine next Monday! Looking forward to it

I will then choose between this and the clevo pb50, which I have just received.

Different machines, different compromises.

It's going to be fun!

 

Yeah no way 94Wh battery can only get 6 hrs battery. NBC battery testing sometimes isn't that accurate from what I've noticed.

 

@B0B it seems like you have uncovered something which should be considered as a bug in the software / firmware. Around the 100% fan speed mode. Because unsuspecting people probably don't want to be triggering that by accident.

However wasn't there some other information posted here by
@XMG about how to enable this? As an undocumented / debugging feature. Wasn't it mentioned that editing the settings.ini file before installing control centre? Or something like that.

@XMG I think you also mentioned that there was some hidden registry key also. For this exact same feature. Sorry my memory is not the best. But if true then it sounded like:

There is some hidden checkbox in control centre. Which is only revealed if the software is installed after some specific line has been added to the setup.ini file for the installer. That checkbox then in turn sets or clears a registry key for what is being referred to as a debugging / testing mode. Or maybe control centre software is altering that registry key each time the hardware physical button is detected as being toggled.

So in theory it wouldn't it be possible to alternatively create a simple .reg regedit file instead? For those users who already installed control centre the normal way. (or) are not using control centre software at all. People on Linux for example.

Is that correct / incorrect? Can we clarify all that?

BTW I am also glad to hear that the GPU thermal limit is not locked behind DRM after all. We were really wondering about that aspect. This then seems like a sensible thing for them to do. And perhaps it's really in the broader interests of everybody for them not to bother locking it down after the fact. Because some people inevitably do live in hot climates, with a much higher ambient temperature. Or have worse silicon, or are part of the overclocking community, or whatever the other reasons might be, etc.

Maybe also just dump the current vbios, and upload that to techpowerup website. Where they all get uploaded to. Which of course there are two models. One for each different gpu. In fact I'm not sure how unique these nvidia vbios are to a specific machine. If that's an issue for reflashing onto other different units. Well whatever. Maybe somebody else can come along and clarify that for us all.

 

Speaking of that test by Notebookcheck, the XMG said that their display tests are wrong because XMG themselves got different results:
https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/dbpnsy/xmg_fusion_15_owners_lounge_user_reviews_and/f24ifk4

This is why I am curious to see if someone can test display on MAG-15. Too bad so many reviewers are focused just on FPS numbers ;-)

 

@dreamcat4 The post about Registry and setup.ini that you are looking for is here in this thread (Page 12, Post #113) and in our sub-reddit (sticky reply to parent post).

There is nothing secret about this. You can simply edit the hidden settings in Registry Editor, quit CC and start it again.
This is not a real debugging mode but merely a 4th performance profile which triggers the "Performance/Gaming/Enthusiast" profile (System Mode 1 in my tables) together with 100% fan speed.
I am not aware of any way to trigger this mode by accident. (But I haven't watched Bob's videos yet.)

For your benefit, I exported the Registry settings in 4 different files.
- Show Benchmark Mode
- Hide Benchmark Mode
- All Settings exported
- All Settings exported incl. Language/Translations

The one for the Benchmark Mode (100% Fan Speed) looks like this:

Code:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\OEM\GamingCenter\FanI]
"BenchmarkMode"=dword:00000001

If you want to play around with it, download this ZIP file:

XMG-FUSION-15_CC-2.1.0.14_RegistryTemplates.zip [ Download]

Cheers,
XMG|Tom

 

Thanks for clearing that up @XMG, appreciate it.

 

The key is to have max fans without the high TDP profile running.

Ultimately I wanted to add that Dave’s reveal was very much likely running as I had shown in my recent video. I have more information to base this on but it’s not something that’s appropriate to discuss.

 

I'd love to know what fans are like when not gaming? Is it possible to have long term 0 rpm fans when doing basic office applications?

 

mom at 26 to 30dB. Once a certain temp is reached the fans kick on. 30dB isn’t too terrible but some laptops I’ve reviewed were 28dB solid.

 

mom? Also, how often would you say the fans kick in under normal office like applications (if you've tried that, lol).

 

Sorry I’m still trying to get use to this new phone lol. Fans are on for awhile then off for awhile rather than a constant off/on/off/on

I think I can keep the Aero consistently quieter but honestly I wasn’t bothered by the MAG idle acoustics like I was on the 2019 Helios 300

 

2070:

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/20589860

https://www.3dmark.com/spy/8747087

1660Ti:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-15-vapor-15-pro.830272/page-13#post-10952719

 

These are very impressive results. How did you manage to overclock GPU so high?

 

So what's everyone's opinion here? Electroboosted 2070 Max q vs 2080 Max q

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Also what RAM do you have in there reporting 3000mhz not 2666 which i thought was a limit of these CPUs?

Nice numbers!

 

Yea i just noticed that, does it actually support more than 2666 MHz

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Based on @Prema 's results here, the 2070 is hitting 100w 2080 Max-q levels of performance. Mighty impressive.

 

Are you sure about that? Isn't 21,000 mark usually 90w 2080 Max q territory? Also was this with the temp limit edit or with liquid metal? Either way it's looking to be quite the upgrade from my Alienware m15.

They minus well rename the gpu to 2070 Max q SUPER lol

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Oh I'm very sure. I've been trying to get my 2080 Max-q to run the 150w vbios for quite some time now and have gone through multiple vbioses.

This was my 90w FS score for reference.



Not sure what exactly @Prema did to push the mag 15 but the cpu is definitely running at full 4.0Ghz all core with a ram overclock to get to the 17k mark in cpu score.

 

Put it this way... Is 9900K limited to 2666MHz ram because intel's specs say so?


The problem is the Notebook manufacturers. They prefer kill all tweak options. See... Cripple Bios if they can http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...m-owners-lounge.826831/page-162#post-10864715

 

In that case I would order a mag 15 soon with these numbers lol

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BTW @Prema

How did you get the 1660ti to run faster than desktop variants.

Teach me your ways.

Yeah I was right.

 

Spoiler

[\SPOILER]

 

Today marks the release of BIOS 0052 and Control Center 2.1.0.15 - Changelog coming soon!

We have used this update to modify our Enthusiast-Profile. We now follow Intel's standard with P1G1F1 in this profile. Our explainer post has been updated including a new Download link.

Here is a quick comparison of the old vs. new Enthusiast profile:



These numbers have been collected on RTX 2070 Max-Q in the worst case of 29°C room temperature (welcome to Taiwan!). We will expand this table with more moderate room temperatures when we get the chance. As usual: your mileage may vary.

Cheers,
XMG|Tom

 

I was up late last night using the new software as well as the new BIOS.

The software is good and from what I can tell, the new BIOS made a fix to the bug that allowed the user to perform that Max Fan trick I had shown yesterday.

This was tested with several versions of the software to make sure it wasn’t that.

We’re still able to tune past 75c with the new BIOS which is good.

 

Hi B0B, thank you for the re-affirmation!

Meanwhile, another review is out:

Computerbase: XMG Fusion 15 under test: Simple, light, fast and enduring
(+ German Original)

Cheers,
XMG|Tom

 

Those fans which keep ramping up sounds like my alienware m15 experience again. Please don't lett this happen while basic usage temps should never even exceed 40C with low ambient temps like Germany and Netherlands. With my alienware m15 it keeps hitting its 40C threshold which is annoying.

 

MAG 15 1660 ti owner here. I'm experiencing an issue with this laptop that I haven't encountered before and am out of ideas on how to fix it.

The laptop is not able to hit 144 fps VSYNC cap no matter which game it runs. Even older games that do 300+ fps on my GTX 980 desktop are hovering between 120-130 fps on the laptop with minimal GPU and CPU utilization.

Playing Doom 2016 for example, it runs at same fps on medium, high or ultra settings (120-130) at different levels of GPU utilization. ~70% for medium, ~80 for high and ~90 for ultra. Playing Half Life 2, 120-130 fps, barely any GPU utilization.

Reinstalled Nvidia drivers clean, tried undervolting using recommendations posted here. I have a locked GPU frequency for gaming at 1650mhz 0.800V while CPU is stock. Temps are in check and very good (have liquid metal applied) and frequencies look great (3.9 on the CPU all cores and 1650 mhz solid).

Hoping someone has some ideas on what is causing this. Much appreciated!

 

@disolitude This might be an NVIDIA Optimus (MSHybrid) issue.
Please update to the latest Intel Graphics and NVIDIA drivers.

Intel Graphics: Version: 26.20.100.7212 (Latest)
NVIDIA: GeForce Game Ready Driver 436.48 - WHQL

For what it's worth, according to FRAPS, I'm able to hit 144fps with forced VSYNC and well beyond w/o VSYNC on my unit with RTX 2070 Max-Q - should be no problem.

Cheers,
XMG|Tom

 

@Prema will you be looking to partner project-e like other versions or will it be able to be obtained if at all through yourself?

 

Silly question but do you get consistent 144 fps or above in league of legends? Silly I know but it's a poorly optimized CPU bound game that some laptops can't achieve the consistent frame rate in team fights

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Thank you for the suggestion. I had the latest Nvidia drivers, but Intel ones were old hence I clean reinstalled both drivers. Unfortunately the issue is still there.
This has to be a drivers issue and I will try a clean Win 10 install at this point with all of the recommended and latest drivers.
Will advise if that works for those curious or having the same issue.

 

Might it be a Windows issue? As if a kind of VSync is being forced even in Fullscreen?
I have a similar issue on completely unrelated hardware. Suspect "Fullscreen optimisation" in Windows might be to blame. Give some feedback if reinstall helped.

 

Can Tom form XMG, or Bob confirm regarding the fan noise that was noticed in the last review of xmg fusion, i was having an eye on this one since it seems like it ticks almost everything i want from a laptop, however the main reason i want to get rid of my lenovo y530 is annoying fan behaviour, that whenever it hits 55c or so the fans come up almost at full speed, then slows down and goes off within 30 seconds period. I have to keep turbo boost off when i dont need it to not get fans turning on and off every minute or so. I have no idea why cant it start slow and stay for longer and increase if its not fully able to cool it enough. If fusion 15 acts in similar fasion without giving an option to set active trip point temps and fan speeds its a dealbreaker for me. I registered just to ask this. Thanks

 

Tried disabling fullscreen optimizations, but no dice. Also window mode or borderless mode doesn't help.
But here is the best part...Microsoft Store games work fine and hit 144 FPS no problem.

So yeah, I'll reinstall everything and go from there.

 

Regarding your question about the fans coming on/off, @B0B has adressed this a couple pages back:

@XMG also commented on this previously and provided specific parameters regarding this behaviour:

Finally, welcome to the community! I'm sure you'll find the forums a nice place to share your thoughts, ask questions and provide helpful answers to others

 

Hey Guys, I'm by no means a reviewer, so I won't even dive down that road, but I just got my Mag-15 today, turned on Benchmark mode after updating the latest 2070 driver, and here are the Time Spy Results:

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/8757751/spy/8221733

This is in comparison to my 9880H w/ 2080 Max Q - MSI GS65. I've gotta say.... I'm impressed. Highly impressed. Granted, the fans are loud in benchmark mode, and I've not used it to run a game yet, but for the laptop to get that close to the 2080 Max Q, for the price I paid for it... 3% away from 2080 Max Q as far as frame rate is concerned. This laptop is a winner. The build quality is stellar too. I really like this thing.

 

First of all thanks everyone and especially BOB for his diligence.

Can some kind soul who uses Linux tell me how the laptop behaves? Does everything work out of the box in a distro like Linux Mint (these days driver support is pretty much flawless but you never know)? Touchpad, Wi-Fi card? nvidia drivers should be easy to install. Does it work with no issues? Also one thing I'm worried is the rgb keyboard. Support is often patchy even in Windows, let alone Linux.

Cheers!

 

I'm sure rgb support in Linux will have to be community sourced like the mech 15 BUT out of the box that rgb wont be available to be switched in software. Good news is you can still use some of the effects since you can set them in the bios so I presume that it'll work once you enter your Linux, you just won't be able to change it without getting back into the bios. Another worry is that the representative said the rgb controller is proprietary from Intel this time around so there might not be an API immediately available.

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These are pretty good results.

 

The jury is still out. We are sending a unit to our partners at TUXEDO Computers who will make a proper Linux evaluation on this machine.
They also usually write their own code for per-key keyboard backlight and performance/fan control.

Meanwhile, I can comment on Fn key function in Windows without Control Center installed.

All 12 Fn hotkeys work even without Control Center installed.
Keyboard Backlight is white by default. Keyboard Brightness can be controlled via Hotkey and be turned off. The setting is saved even after reboot.

The "Turbo" button (or "Mode Switch" button) works even without Control Center. It cycles through the 3 modes Enthusiast, Balanced and Silent. You can recognize from the LED on which mode you're currently running:

• No LED = Silent
• 1 LED = Balanced
• 2 LED = Enthusiast

The customized building blocks of each profile still remain even after Control Center is uninstalled. On a new out of the box unit, those settings would probably be Intel's default. But as soon as you run a customized Control Center (bei it XMG's or Eluktronic's) at least once, the customized settings seem to be applied straight to the firmware memory.

All of this is going to make Linux support moderately easy.

All other components (NVIDIA, WiFi) are pretty standard. Touchpad is from Synaptics. We'll see how the ACPI tables behave in Standby and Hibernate and we'll see if we need to adjust anything on the Audio side for Linux.

To check all components for yourself, feel free to have a look at this HWiNFO64 report.

As @Arondel already clarified, this is a very low-rpm fan noise at 30% speed that would would probably expect in low/medium load situations anyway. We will try to optimize this further but it is not something that I would worry about. German reviewers in general are just notoriously picky about things like that, especially when they are used to using low-powered laptops from Apple.

Cheers,
XMG|Tom