Intel-TongFang QC7 (Element/Fusion 15/MAG-15/Vapor 15 Pro)

This sounds like it was not applied properly or maybe not applied at all. I have never seen 9750h reach 95c after liquid metal repaste. You should repaste yourself or if you don't want to do it - return it and ask Eluktronics to repaste.

 

It's rare but it might just be right. The CPU gets a TON of wattage. I remember the AW m15r1 getting toasty even after LM.

I did reveal only a minor temp decrease with LM and that was post tuned.

What I want to see if a nice balanced Wattage from both GPU and CPU but allow max fans. That'll help big time!

 

Step 1: Install all drivers from Eluktronics MAG-15 driver page. You may also use XMG FUSION 15 driver page.
Step 2: still having unclear devices in device manager? Double click the Device --> Details --> Property --> Hardware IDs --> Copy the Hardware ID into the forum or Google it and you shall find out, what kind of device this is.

Same as above, install all drivers. Especially make sure to update Intel and NVIDIA graphics drivers.
Make sure all of your desktop software is running on Intel GPU.

When Optimus is set up correctly (which it is, by default), all your desktop apps are running on the Intel graphics (iGPU). In this situation, the dGPU is very much fully 'OFF' and takes exactly zero power. Thus, having the option to boost it up to G2 does not affect your "mobile work" battery life at all.

You can check this for yourself. Run a monitoring tool like HWiNFO64 or NVIDIA Inspector. If you don't get any temps, clock or usage numbers reported, it means that the dGPU is 'OFF'.

But watch out: certain monitoring apps including GPU-Z manually turn the dGPU to 'ON' to get their data - this wouldn't happen in real-world usage. So if you try this, try it with HWiNFO64 or NVIDIA Inspector.




Cheers,
XMG|Tom

 

This is because it's pulling too much power due to insanely high power limits. Try lowering down PL1 to 45W.

 

@XMG and @B0B

I was looking at the previous post about the fan curve tables and performance profiles and I have a few questions.

1. Does running the CPU at pl1 65W pl2 100w really give more performance vs pl1 45w pl2 65w? If not, why not just make the enthusiast profile use profile 2 for the CPU since since we end up having to power limit throttle the CPU anyways to get better temps. Currently my Alienware m15 has pl 45 and pl2 75 on performance mode and that's still overkill for pl2

2. With electroboost active, I'd think it would be better to have either profile 2 or 3 for the CPU to give more thermal headroom to the GPU don't you think?

3. Can this profiles be edited after the fact? Like would I be able to change a config file to change how the blocks are arranged or is this something only the manufacturer can do?

4. Would setting the CPU to performance 1 (enthusiast) improve integrated gpu performance? By how much?

5. Is there any way that electroboost be included in the balanced profile @B0B ? I remember when you first reviewed electroboost you mentioned that the mech 15 would throttle the CPU to not compromise the GPU performance and I don't think that's what's happening here at all.

6. I'm assuming this isn't possible but couldn't a 4th power profile be made instead of 3? Like one with the following profiles for CPU/GPU/Fan - 2/1/1 WITH electroboost? Hell maybe even 3/1/1 profile might be good to keep the integrity of electroboost.

I feel like this laptop is giving a lot of power to the CPU but there is a point of diminishing returns after 50W of power and it's not worth the extra small performance gains on a CPU that can't even be overclocked. Also if windows next update that includes "favored cores" actually does what it says it will do than performance will just get better without having to feed this absurd amount of wattage to the CPU.


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Own or disown full review is out

 

Hey can anyone tell me if you can use an aux with integrated mic or if you need to have a separate mic? Thank you!

 

The 2070 performance with electroboost looks disappointing, can anyone else confirm this? Also would a 2080 Max q 90w with gsync offer more performance than this? I see Lenovo released their 15 with 2080 Max q but I worry about that shifted keyboard, small battery and that bios headache they are going through atm....

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I really wish the reviewers would do tests and present data that's easily comparable to user's own machines. Like that Handbrake vs CB20. I can't compare Handbrake results, but I can CB20, even if it is short, run CB20 and Intel power gadget, I can deduct what's going on from the gradients on trends and decide if it is worth ditching my current machine.

I still don't know if this thing has good cooling or not. Nobody shows GPU power usage, I guess it goes down to 60~70W when throttling at the 75C mark. It seems to have great CPU cooling when looking at package power figures, but the power numbers are kind of weird. 70W package while playing a game? In another game dropping clock from 4 to 3.4 results in package power going down from 50 to 25W? What is it, some overvolting added at higher clocks? I saw some partial screenshots from HWInfo and the iGPU seems to use 5W always, there is like a permanent 10W difference between package and IA cores.

Can someone with it please run AIDA stress test (without memory) and Heaven together, with max fans, with HWInfo in the background displaying average values over 15 minutes of such test? Preferably with CPU TDP limited to 45W if possible (most common value in gaming laptops). That's something anybody can do at home.

 

Hey, as youre talking about Powerlimits of the CPU I'd like to ask a question:

I tested the PB71EF-G which has the i7 8750 CPU with a PL1 of 50W i think and a PL2 of 90W.
While testing and benchmarking with ThrottleStop (UV -0.125v) and CB R20, increasing the PL1 to like 70W did actually increase the results.

So I'm wondering why you say that the PLs are already "insanely high".

 

No offense, but this is not a valid excuse. I don't want to get my posts removed by moderator but to give you brief example: I have different laptop, with worse cooling system (no top air intake, smaller side heatsinks), with liquid metal applied CPU does not reach 95+ even in actual demanding games like Forza Horizon 4 (in my experience it stresses CPU and GPU more than other games I have tried). I have tested it at PL1 of 60w and PL2 of 90w. A laptop with better cooling system should have better results than that.

 

Quick question, on the enthusiast and balance profile, do than fans actually achieve the max fan speed? or can the max fan speed only be accessed by ticking the box inside of the eluktronics software? I saw somewhere before where the enthusiast profile has a max fan speed of 80% and balanced has max speed of 70%, is this true? if so what are the dB(a) readings? I saw ownordisown show 52 dB(a) but I don't know if that's max fan speed or if it's the 80% mentioned earlier here.

Which laptop is this for the record? just curious.

 

Doesn't really matter, it has same hardware but worse cooling system.

I don't want to buy a $60 game and I doubt anyone else would just to benchmark it, so out of curiosity, could you instead run something like Firestrike benchmark and post the temperature graphs? Something like this (this is not from MAG-15, it's just an example):

This would be easier for other owners of MAG-15 to post their results for comparison so you would see whether your thermal paste was applied correctly when comparing your own results with results of other MAG-15 users. Also, you should mention the setting you chose in the Eluktronics app which controls the GPU and CPU power limits.

 

Is the additional Intel Optane Memory worth 30$. Also does it come embedded in the 512gb Intel 660p ssd leaving space for expansion in the second m.2 slot?

 

No, it takes up an m.2 slot. In my opinion it's not worth it.

Either get a samsung nvme ssd (better performance) or you can get on of the intel nvme ssd that actually have optane cache embedded into a NAND flash storage.

 

This is what I was afraid for. I was hopping for it to be embedded into the 660p. Another question if we take 1tb ssd will there be two 512gb ssd or single 1TB?

 

I think it's a single m.2 slot taken up

@B0B dunno if eluktronics or XMG is open to adding features to their software but I think it'd be pretty great if you can set per game (or executable) thermal and performance profiles like in alienware command center. Then we can in theory use the button to switch between the profiles as a max fan button for example.

I also think this laptop would be a fantastic candidate for the azure cloud machine learning tuning we saw from the gigabyte aero 15.

Does anyone know if this laptop's performance with stock paste, 2070 max q and balance profile has equal or better performance to other stock 2070 max qs? Can it be possible to curb the fans to stay under 49 dB in balanced? I pretty much assume that the 2070 max q with enthusiast profile has performance between 2080 max q and 2070 max q but I worry that this laptop is louder than my alienware m15 r1... I'd consider the lenovo y740 but the small battery puts me off, alienware m15 r1 has a very mediocre typing experience and gets hot. The mag 15 is between the lenovo y740 and alienware m15 r1 in terms of keyboard, battery but some of the reservations I have are:
1. Fan noise - seems to be louder than alienware AND y740 by around 5 dB, if it can be controlled to an extent that would make me less worried
2. Performance - I don't know if stock it'll perform equal or greater than other 2070 max q on balanced OR close to 2080 max q on electroboost

Anyone here have personal experience with this?

 

Should we get Liquid metal repasted because I heard it can corrode the heat sink in long run?

 

Liquid metal does not corrode heatsink if it is made out of copper. Gallium in liquid metal alloy can damage aluminum but the middle area of the heatsink on MAG-15 is copper. Gallium does not damage copper, it will just diffuse into it over time, which is not a terrible thing and just means it will need to be reapplied after some time.

 

I noticed someone mention it takes 20 seconds for this laptop to boot from cold boot. Is that true? they mentioned they replaced with samsung 970 evo but the boot still won't speed up. Can anyone confirm this?

 

For CPU+GPU combined load, it won't be able to handle 70W heat from CPU. I'm referring to combined load btw

Would be better if you can provide clock speed and power draw figures while in game

 

Or they didn't apply the LM properly. Do let us know if its the liquid metal issue and you are getting a repaste.

 

Answers:

1. Yes, higher PL1/PL2 gives higher performance in CPU-bottlenecked applications. If you want to reduce the CPU power, your best bet is to just go with the Balanced profile.

2. See #3.

3. Yes, the profiles can be edited in setup.ini (before installation) or Windows Registry (after installation). This is outlined at the bottom of this post. (Page 12, #113)

4. We have not tested this but I would assume the difference is negligible.

5. Electroboost/Overboost is active in every profile that uses the "Graphics Mode 1" (aka NVIDIA p-state 0). In our setup, this applies to both Enthusiast and Balanced modes.

6. From my personal experience I think it is fair to say that Intel will not add any more additional performance profiles to this product.

In general: guys, I think you are overthinking all of this a little bit. No offense.

For example: some commentors here seem to assume that the CPU is running at supposedly unreasonably high power just because Intel wants to flex their muscles. This is not the case.

The CPU only takes as much power as it is demanded by the application. If you're running games with high CPU demands, do you want to bottleneck your FPS by artificially throttling the CPU?
Please note that CPU bottlenecks usually make the game feel more sluggish due to dropped frames and input lag.

On the other hand, if you're running games which are less CPU-heavy, your GPU will be able to share more of the total thermal budget and thus give more headroom to NVIDIA's GPU Boost.

The headphone port is not a hybrid port. You need seperate Mic and Headphone plugs.#
If you want to use your smartphone headset, please buy a CTIA splitter that looks roughly like this:

Fan Duty and dB(A) reading according to Intel's lab testing, based on ISO 7779:



The 70, 80, 90% readings are not "max fan speed" but typical gaming fan speeds. Your milage may vary.

Would be great, but probably won't be done anymore for this particular laptop.

Wifh "Fast Boot" enabled in BIOS and Windows, we record 12 seconds boot time from [Power Button] to [Login Screen Wallpaper].

In Intel's reference BIOS, "Fast Boot" is not yet enabled by default. Your Local OEM or yourself have to manually enable it. We enable it on every machine before shipping. I guess, those 20 second boot time stories come from laptops where "Fast Boot" was not yet enabled.

You can find it in BIOS Setup (F2) --> Boot --> Fast Boot (below Boot Medium Priority list)

Btw, you guys are all amazing. We are getting so many pre-orders right now, we will soon need to start training more people in production to cope with the demand.

Cheers,
XMG|Tom

 

Thanks for sharing this fan noise levels. Then in Balance mode laptop should have quite ok noise level comparable to Aero 15 oled. One thing is stoping me now from preordering laptop is no ANSI keyboard options from XMG, any plans to add them in future?

 

Well that's a relief so that means we get electroboost in balanced or enthusiast mode! In the command center for eluktronics I only saw that it's available for enthusiast mode in the reviews so I hope that's the case. I want to try my hand at playing ARK:survival evolved on this machine. I just hope this machine can handle playing games on an ultrawide too...

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Very unlikely. Let me quote myself:

US(ISO) and US(ANSI) are functionally identical. A comparison GIF can be found here. In this GIF, please disregard the arrow keys on WASD and please note that this is an example from a different laptop, but the basic idea is the same:

• the key with "\" and "|" is moved by one position, due to the enlarged RETURN key.
• the same key is also duplicated to the bottom left, due to the smaller SHIFT key. (ISO has +1 keys over ANSI)

General overview: ANSI vs. ISO
I have seen the same US(ISO) layout at Apple and Logitech, so it's pretty common. Due to the physical differences between ANSI and ISO, we are only able to support ISO keyboard layouts in XMG FUSION in the forseeable future.

The HDMI and Thunderbolt/DisplayPort output will have no problems at running ultrawide resolutions. Framerate depends on the graphical fidelity of the game.

Cheers,
XMG|Tom

 

Very sad, get used to ANSI layout (Russian) and ISO layout is torchure for me, small left shift is huge problem. By any chance there is a possibility to buy keyboard separatly? Surely MAG 15 have ANSI layout so keyboard should exist

 

Honestly I prefer the ISO layout. Because the larger return key is pressed many times more often for me than shift key. When i had an ansi layout, i kept hitting the wrong key by mistake (because in ANSI layout the return and shift key feels exactly the same as each other: they are the same shape, and they key above also).

Wheras in ISO i can feel the edge of the keyboard with pinky finger to locate left shift. Because it is the key on the edge there is never any confusion. So this thing you are talking about - it' never actually happened to me or been some persistent bother.

I am still scratching my head why ANSI layout exists with the thinnger return key. It's not even ergonomic, for those positions where my pinky fingers rest at the extremes of the keyboard. For example on an ANSI layout i would end up having to actually move my right pinky finger downwards and be constantly straining it to get it over from the resting position onto the (moved lower down) return key there. I stopped using that keyboard very soon. Then eventually sold it / got rid of it.

 

I don't know the reason, flexing the muscles, simplicity of deployment, or whatever else, but here are some results from running AIDA + Heaven together on Mag 15 (compiled from SAL discord), values reported by HWInfo, averages over 15 minutes to 1 hour, RTX2070 MaxQ:

MAG 15 balanced power mode, liquid metal, stock settings

• CPU: 3.0 GHz, 45W, 82C
• GPU: 643 MHz, 52W, 72C

MAG 15 performance power mode, liquid metal, disabled BDPROCHOT

• CPU: 3.4 GHz, 64W, 90C
• GPU: 891MHz, 57W, 76C

MAG 15 performance power mode, liquid metal, stock settings

• CPU: 3.5 GHz, 66W, 90C
• GPU: 955 MHz, 40W, 74C

So there is definitely some masking of reported GPU power going on (640MHZ@52W / 955MHz@40W) , don't know why. We usually do it ourselfs to work around power limits embedded in Bios. If it is happening on GPU, why not on CPU also. To compare my Blade 15 doing the same:

Razer Blade 15 Base 2019 (RTX2060, so GPU clock doesn't compare to MAG), stock TIM

• CPU: 3.5 GHz, 45W, 86C
• GPU: 1.5 GHz, 79W, 72C

So, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask why does the Intel white label need 20W more to achieve the same clock speeds while running exactly same test. My Blade is -0.125V, The MAG was -0.050V, but at 3.5GHz they run at 0.99V vs 1.05V, so it should be 3W difference and not 20.

And this is fundamental issue, we know what the 9750h can do, we know what the Nvidia cards can do, what differentiates the different gaming laptops is their size and cooling capability, and while the physical dimensions are known and easy to compare I have absolutely no idea how many Watts can this chassis actually dissipate, which is the most important criteria for me when buying a gaming laptop.

EDIT - corrected wrong number in Blade GPU power usage.

 

It maybe larger but then you need to aim higher, problem with small shift is that i miss it because i aim in the right half, the same with Enter key, I aim in the left part) But of course it's just matter of taste, I not against ISO I'm just for getting more options. Because now option for ANSI keyboards in EU is some models of Dell, Apple or order laptops in Netherlands where options are very limited Interesting thoug HP omen and MSI GS65 in germany sold in DE(ANSI)

 

My alienware M15 R1 has US ANSI layout. I have also used keyboard with ISO layout and I get used to it in a couple of seconds. Not a big deal imho

 

@Thysanoptera I acknowledge your post and I'll follow up with a reply later. I also sent you a PM to ask for some minor clarifications. // Cheers, XMG|Tom

 

Looks like that introductory $1499 price is now gone from Eluktronics! $1599 for the 1660 Ti base model, and $1899 for the 2070 model. Yikes.

 

I guess they got plenty of orders so they naturally raised the price. It's still significantly cheaper than Gigabyte Aero 15.

 

It was mentioned on OwnorDisown that prices will get increased with 100 USD to cover support (or provide more of it).

 

Hey @XMG not sure if you know this but do you know how much wattage the GPU pulls in electroboost mode? I assume the 2070 max q pulls more than 90w otherwise it would have the same performance as a 2070 max q with 90w.

 

He guys, I'm totally new here and new to owning a real laptop with a dedicated GPU, so please go easy on me. First I'd just like to thank Bob for the great videos and reviews. I decided to go ahead and buy this laptop off of Amazon a few days ago, it should arrive tomorrow.

I had a question that might seem stupid but I honestly don't know the answer. I already have a 1tb WD Black M.2 SSD I'd like to replace as my main HDD and use the 512gb drive that comes with the laptop as my secondary. I assume that for me to do this I would have to freshly install Windows 10 and all the drivers from the Eluktronics website. How exactly is this done? I assume Windows is already pre-activated on the 512gb HDD, so after putting in the new HDD and installing Windows, how do I activate it?

I'm probably gonna mess around with ThrottleStop to see if I can tweak the settings a little bit too. Some of the shorthand used for this program is confusing. In ThrottleStop does PL1 & PL2 refer to Package Power Long & Package Power Short, respectively?

Thanks in advance!

 

Yes Eluktronics had to hire several employees to keep up with demands.

Small company making a big impact has to minimize risk as their on a fine line as is.

 

I'm happy they are finally growing, I've always liked their laptops but wanted a company with more support

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@B0B I've got two questions for you about this laptop.

First you mentioned that you were communicating with them about increasing the thermal limit, is this something that (you think) has a good chance of happening/being confirmed to happen, or is it just a hope?

Secondly, I've also been looking at the Triton 500, which has similar specs to this one, except it has a 2060 (which (I believe) performs better than the 2070 not including ray tracing). I love the look of the mag-15, but would you happen to know/be able to guess if there would be a significant difference in performance?

 

I'm not Bob and I apologize for this but the 2060 on Triton 500 is more than enough to push frames on it. However, the 2070 Max q version of the Triton 500 has a mux switch for gsync and Optimus. Also keep in mind the Triton 500 is a little hard to service since the motherboard is flipped

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No problem, any help is always welcome

Having a laptop that is hard to service isn't too big of a factor for me, mainly design, performance, and portability. I've read that in theory that the Triton 500 with a 2060 should perform better than the mag-15 with a 2070, but I never got a clarification on how big the difference would be. Currently I'm leaning towards the mag-15 even if I lose a few frames, but I don't want to lose too many.

 

Mag 15 with 2070 Max q is around 10% more performance vs 2060 Unless you play GPU heavy games and throttle the CPU a bit, the performance is between 2070 Max q and 2080 Max q according to ownordisown

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Oh damn, really? Even with whatever thermal throttling stock mag-15 has?
I was talking to someone earlier and they said that the 2060 performs better on average in games (like 5 or 6%?), but I would guess they're wrong then.

Thanks for the help!

 

No problem, if you have anymore questions you can ask ownordisown since he has the 2070 Max q version. Even with the throttling its still better than other 2070 Max q and if you undervolt and limit the CPU you can probably get some better temps still.

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This is absolutely wrong - 2070 Max-q will perform better than 2060 if the 2060 is not overclocked and uses stock 80w power limit.


This is a perfect "apples-to-apples" comparison since both of those models use same exact cooling system and thermal paste in his test:


Same will apply to any other notebook which offers 2060 and 2070 Max-q options (if they have same power limit).

 

Oh wow, thanks for the link!
I'm not super knowledgable about the details of things like this (as you may have noticed), so I love it when people like you help! Guess I know what I'm going to be buying

 

This is wrong. My 2070 Max Q runs within 3% of the stock 2080 Max Q of my MSI GS65 Stealth too.

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/8794750/spy/8221733#

I've just gotta get the CPU temps under control, but even moreso, the fan noise.

Another thing I noticed today, is that my entire trackpad's bottom right corner is out of the chassis. It's sitting a good 1/8" above the chassis, to where I can fully see underneath the trackpad.

 

A Reddit user got an email response after contacting them about a bulging battery in only four hours... on a Sunday! It seems their support is pretty good, if you ask me.

Have you reached out to @Eluktronics? I'm sure they will help you out!

 

Isn't that a 80w variant 2080 Max q?

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