The "Official" IFL90 Shipping/Waiting Thread

Hey, all in the interest of friendly debate. It's actually quite refreshing to carry on an honest, open discussion without degrading to personal attacks, which happens far too often on forums. Warming up for school, really!

Good luck with your new laptop. (me too!)

 

No matter how respectable or how high your business is rated, I think a partial payment for known items that are on a waiting list is much better than asking for the full price up front - expecially cash-equivelent payments, despite a small discount.

 

Hmmm the partial payment is an interesting suggestion...I hadn't even thought of something like that at all.

I am glad I have found a forum where a debate can happen without the usual flames, attacks, etc.

Off to a class...

 

Yeah, this might be a reasonable solution, but I mean, it's not like the resellers are holding your money hostage. Especially with all the associates (? is that the right term?) that you can pester on these forums and through email.

From what I understand, you can cancel at any time before the unit ships and get a full refund. Plus, I don't think they charge anything until the unit actually ships. Not 100% sure though, but I'm fairly certain that's the policy.

A problem with partial payments is the discretion at which the reseller prices the laptop, in this case. Now, when they charge you up front a full price, they are guaranteeing the parts ordered for the price paid, regardless if costs on their end go up or down. If you do partial payments, resellers might resort to charging according to market fluctuations, which is really no fun for anyone.

Anyway, I don't run a business myself of course, but there's been some good thoughts presented in this thread. You're right, bxturtle, it's nice to flesh out thoughts and ideas without reducing it to personal attacks, flames, whatnot. I'm eager to hear what Windance has to say.

Ugh, classes, I really don't want to go back to those...

 

This is exactly why it should be a partial payment. If the price drops for the components, is it fair for the customer to get a $1500 computer that they can buy for $1400 (example) 2 months from now when their notebook ships?

The partial payment allows for this flexibility. Partial payment = down payment to secure the item (shows you are serious about buying so they can go on with the leg work).

It's just good busniess. You have to be fair to your customers too.

I already paid in full of course, but I wish I asked about a down payment instead. It's fair for both the customer and the reseller when it is known in advance that the product will not be done in a reasonable time period.

This is not like waiting for a custom-built car. Computer components flucuate in prices very frequently - 1 - 2 months can make a difference in price. Usually the trend is the price of the same component you've ordered goes lower (though memory and LCDs can go either way).

For those who paid in July and who are just getting theirs now, how much did you pay for it, and what does it cost (same config) just before they shipped it?


Sorry for a long post, but here is an very good example:
In buying this IFL90, I am selling my MSI S270. They can't pay in full, so they want to pay in payments. Selling it for $1000. He wants to pay $300 now, then $300 in another month, then $100 each month until its paid off.

So should I give the laptop to him when I recieve the first amount? 2nd amount? That's not fair to me - he could just run off (yes, he's a respectable guy, but there is still risk of trouble). He originally wanted the laptop right away after the intitial $300 payment. I wanted at least $700 before it leaves my hands. But we came to a good middle ground.

I mean, is it fair to him that he pays me the partial money and recieve nothing? Is it fair to me that I only get a partial payment and he gets everything?

My solution was that when I recieve $600 (the majority of the money), he will have the laptop in a striped down $600-worth config. Smaller HD, less memory, and no MS Office 2007. If he bails, he got what he paid for, and I got what it was worth. If he pays the $100, I can give him the bigger HD and memory (whatever that $100 can buy at that point in time), and when he pays the rest, I can install Office 2007 and give him the media and license.

So there isn't a risk for either party. And both of us know each other pretty well, and don't see each other as someone who would screw another over, but still... better be to fair and careful.

Right now, despite the resellers having a great reputation, it's still a risk, no matter how small you feel it is. A sizable down-payment to secure the leg-work to me is reasonable. When you can see light at the end of the tunnel, you can now start asking for payment in full or if they cancel, no big loss as there is a huge line of other people wanting that laptop anyways. It'll be a pleasent surprise to them (and of course, the down payment should be refunded in full).


Edit: damn, sorry for the long post, lol

 

Again, this is like the question before about whether the reseller should refund money based on Canadian-US dollar fluctuations.

You cannot blame the reseller for problems/changes that are completely out of their control. This includes delays and pricing changes; the resellers are not holding laptops hostage trying to milk money out of people, rather, they are being shipped out as soon as they are assembled, built, and tested. As for pricing changes, I'm sure the resellers update their prices regularly, but if you're asking for real-time updates, that is frankly unfair. You have to remember that these guys are trying to make money too and are usually pretty fair with their prices (i.e. not $400 for 4GB RAM, Dell).

As for the money, I'm not 100% sure since I don't work for any laptop reseller, but I think I've read somewhere that they do not take any money before the laptop is shipped. They may place a hold or something to make sure you have funds, but I'm fairly sure the practice is to ship out a product and then take the money. There's no trickery involved.

As for a $100 fluctuation, if you are that unhappy about losing a C-note, then I'm sure the reseller would be more than happy to cancel your order and then you can go buy your cheaper laptop. Again, they are not holding anybody or any money hostage. I believe you have the option to cancel any time before the laptop ships without penalty. You have to keep in mind that these companies have to take some measure to ensure you have the funds to pay them if you do take their product.

I see what your point is and I agree it's a valid point, but the current system has worked for some time without much issue. I'm just not sure it's necessarily to complicate a fairly simple process that does not show any indication of lending itself to major problems.

But, you know, those are just my thoughts.

 

Didn't see this till after so I'll respond separately.

I think what you're touching upon is the inherent problems/nature of online buying: you have no control over what happens and will only receive a final product, hopefully one you are satisified with. With store bought stuff, even cars to a certain degree, you can go around and touch them and test them and whatnot and that lends itself to a certain degree of security on the buyer's part. You feel a certain amount of power that you can make a good, hard judgement on the product you wish to purchase.

Buying stuff online eliminates this sense of "power", so to speak. You're right that you must inherently trust the resellers in this case to deliver, but unfortunately that's the risk you take with any kind of online purchase. It's a flawed system, sure, but there's no simple answer in sight and plus, stuff you buy in store isn't exactly guaranteed for quality either.

Now, for your specific example, that was a very clever and interesting way to handle the problem of receiving incremental payments. Unfortunately, you are talking about one, specific transaction. Perhaps you can afford to lose out on that last $100 or whatever. But these people are running business and to a certain extent, have to take certain measures that the consumer will deliver. At some point, labor costs and competitive pricing will destroy the business were people to constantly cancel. By taking the full price initially, it becomes a much more significant investment and the consumer actually has to think before taking the plunge, so to speak.

I guess I'm kind of rambling, but I'd just like to reiterate that these resellers are not immediately taking your money; to the best of my knowledge, the policy is ship and take money and of course you can cancel at any time before shipment.

Hey, good ideas, naddie, just providing a point of reference for both sides. The biggest issue would probably be the mass implementation of a somewhat more complicated process; remember, these businesses deal with dozens, if not hundreds, perhaps thousands of transcations yearly.

Good long discussion.

 

My solution was complicated because it was a special case transaction between me and one other person. But my point wasn't to use this complicated method of transaction. My point was that both the seller and buyer have to feel safe and on equal footing.

So charging a down payment for the Compal IFL90, then in full when they see that they can fullfill the orders is a simple solution that can be impliemted in a system where there are thousands of orders for a back-ordered item. The components they have in stock are being used in other systems, so they keep getting restocked at the current (updated) pricing. And I don't see the chassis itself change in price. But the end user will feel the price difference of the accumulated price drops of the components used between when they paid for the laptop and when it actually ships.

This is unique than just an "online buying" experience because usually when paid in full, we get our items in an expected amount of time (as long as 2-3 weeks). In that sense, this is not a typical online buying pitfall. The product is known to be back-ordered, but is so popular, that people are willing to line up for it. Making it less unique is that it isn't a console or an item that the value is fixed (mostly because indivudual computer components flucuate on a week-to-week if not day-to-day basis). Hell, I hate pricing parts for a build weeks in advance on Newegg (or any e-store) because I know I can't count on the price to be the same (or similar) when I am ready to buy.

Thankfully their cancellation policy is fair - they give you 100% of the money back if you decide to cancel (if you find a better deal or laptop elsewhere while waiting, or if you find the wait too long, etc).

I dunno, I'm just sayin. Who am I to make a difference. And thanks for not flaming someone for just sayin'.

 

Yeah, I dunno, I've never run a business before. Heck, I haven't started college quite yet.

I'm pretty sure you've got a valid idea. I'm just pointing out I don't see a lot of problems with the current one. While the customer is always king and possesses the true power of money, businesses have to have some rights to earn a profit.

Also, in terms of fluctuating tech prices, I'm pretty certain resellers buy parts in bulk in order to offer such competitive prices. Otherwise I don't see how they would ever manage to turn a profit. So, you see it might be completely out of their hands to adjust prices any more than say monthly or bimonthly. Again, they are trying to turn a profit, however small.

Hey, no reason why people can't have a civil, constructive conversation.

 

I started a small reseller business before. I try to buy the minimum amount and still get the bulk pricing because I know price changes a lot. Once stock is out, I re-buy the same amount at whatever the new market value (but bulk price), and if I want to (depending on competition) pass the savings along to customers.

So don't worry about resellers buying in bulk and have to sell them off to turn a profit. They know what they are doing. Besides, those are common parts used for other builds and not specific to the IFL90. So they'll have to restock (reorder) them anyways as usual. This will mean they aren't loosing money just because the T7500s lowered in price while waiting for the IFL90 chassis to come in.

So what I'm saying is, there really isn't any reason to hold the full amount in their bank accounts. They win everything - they have our money, so they are making interest off it. The customer looses the interest they were making when it was in their bank for the 1-2 months. And if the reseller decides not to adjust the price if the same build cost less when it is ready to ship 1-2 months later, then the customers takes another hit. Even if they cancel and the reseller was generous enough to refund the full amount, the customer lost time and the interest that he/she would have earned is lost as well. Of course, the seller would have actually gained something - the interest made while they had their cash in their account.

It may seem like a small amount to you, but it adds up. How many people have paid in full, and what is the average price of the Compal IFL90/Sager NP2090 builds? Currently if they have it in a money market savings account, the average interest rate is around 5%. Oh yea, that's a good chunk of change in a single month, no?

 

Well, you're the resident expert at this point, aren't you? You don't really have to listen to anything a college freshman who should be packing has to say...

But you keep saying that the resellers are taking the cash, and from what you say, investing it to make money. Is that how you ran your business? Again, my impression was they don't take the money into their accounts until the ship the laptop itself, effectively negating any "interest" they could have made. I believe they just verify you have an account or something and then build the laptop. I don't see how'd they be able to offer a full refund on cancels otherwise. The transaction fees would be enormous.

And 5% of 1000 is $50, $100 for $2000. For a month, in a purely business sense, I don't think either business or consumer is losing a lot. Of course, I'm soon to be a poor college student, so I really shouldn't be saying that.

Anyway, I'd be interested to hear how you ran your business.

 

Didn't know you were packing otherwise I would have shut up a long time ago.

In order to get the cash discount, Powernotebooks ask for you to do a direct deposit into their bank for the full amount. This cost them nothing, which is why they can offer a discount (the savings is passed to you). That's nice and all, but in the grand scheme of things, they have your money sitting into their account - the full amount - all while you are waiting in the "list".

Well, it wasn't really a BIG business - it was a side thing I tried to do. It worked alright, but it took too much time (I have a day job as well). It's not something that could support me in the long haul so I decided to quit and just focus on my day job and leave the after hours to relax and have a social life.

Anyways, as you say, you are a poor college student, so every little penny counts. PS: that's $100 for $2000 in the bank A YEAR, not a month. Now it may not be much for you, but it just doesn't sit right with me that a business is making money from interest by holding on to money that isn't theirs just yet. Remember that they don't just have your money. It's the $1300 to $1800 (depending on build) per order. Multiply that the number of people on the list who actually paid. If it's just 10 people, thats already over 13-18 grand. If we take the average and say 16 grand at 5% a year, that means they are making $66.67 per month! For what? Just holding on to your money while you are on "the list". I don't know about you, but that's significant enough to pay some serious bills.

 

1. Yes, yes you should be able to hold them responsible. If my laptop took a month to go into assembly, then any price drops on components during that time have thus made the laptop cheaper for them to build, and the extra they are charging me is a bonus in their pocket. A premium that new orders need not pay. Especially in the case of the exchange rate, if my laptop takes almost 2 months to build & ship, then they have NO right to charge me a then-extra amount that does not apply to anyone who orders later then me. That is tantamount to theft, in a way.

2. Actually, no, they most definetly took my money when i payed for my laptop back in august. Which means i payed almost $1800 canadian in august for something that would be $1400 now. A few c-notes? For a 17 y/o student, that is a **** of a lot of money, sir.

 

Good to hear some opinions. I'm pretty much done packing, so let's get to it <cracks fingers>.

I had my mom pay through Credit Card, but, you know what, I really don't know what the resellers' rationale is for the "cash rebate". I guess you might be right that they are turning around and making money off of it, but I just don't get that feeling. Again, I've never run a business (maybe someday in the future ), but I would imagine there's nothing malicious going on. There were some documented delays at the plants (fire in case plant) that I don't believe you can blame on the resellers. Perhaps they could have done something to alleviate the delays, but that's really a personal matter and it becomes a case by case basis on whose most "unhappy", wouldn't it be? In that sense, what would be a reasonable turnaround for a laptop? 2 weeks including shipping? 3 weeks? For me, I've put in a change of order and Justin told me there would be a 2 week delay on top of a 2 week wait already. Now I'm not particularly unhappy, so I don't really see a need to demand a rebate. Perhaps someone else like yourself might be, but again, it's a personal matter.

Well in response to no. 1, say prices were to shoot up unexpectedly? Say a labor issue or a more expensive parts? If you want the rebate back on a 2 month delay "premium", you have to be willing to eat a 2 month unforeseen "additional costs" premium as well. Would that be all right?

I understand the issue with parts, but regarding the currency, I mean come on. The resellers have even less control over that; in fact, nobody but the global market as a whole influences currency. Just like no. 1 too, what if the value of the Canadian dollar plummeted? Would you be willing to eat an additional $500 "currency fluctuation" tack-on?

At the end of the argument, I'd just like to reiterate on top of my argument that these guys are not holding your money totally and absolutely hostage. You are free to cancel any time before the lappy ships. If you feel monetary differences are great enough, cancel and reorder.

To naddie I say I cannot hope to compete with your experiences in the workplace and running a business firsthand because, frankly, I never have. I think your staggered payments idea is pretty good but you know, you and I have no control over the resellers. Just bear in mind the current system, while flawed, is not inherently an absolute advantage for the business either. They need to ensure they can turn a profit to.

To RLM I say one phrase: "You can't have your cake and eat it too." I understand you are frustrated about the fluctuations and monetary losses, but you can't demand a refund when things are going good for you and not be prepared to eat the difference when things look up for businesses. I really don't know what else I could say beyond that.

Well, there's probably a reason not everyone in the world owns a business, small or otherwise. Like naddie said, it's a complicated, complicated process to maintain and I would imagine there are no perfect solutions. Isn't the struggle between consumer and supplier/reseller/producer the basis of the free market economy?

Anyway, good writing (it's kind of talking, but not really is it?)

I don't think we've maliciously hijacked this thread; it's all in good taste. But of course, I'd love to hear about more people getting their IFL90s and their experiences. Can't wait to get mine.

 

Well, gotta have something to talk about while we wait.

Don't be offended but businesses who only think about themselves and not their customers will think the way you do - "who is going to cover MY losses?" The answer shouldn't be "I'll take it out on my customer".

Your example - if the prices for components got hiked and I promised the customer for a price a month ago and HE already paid for, was it the customer's fault it hiked? Should I say "it went up, so pay up"? As a seller, you still have to put yourself in the shoes of your customers.

Even if the prices of the components were hiked up, no one looses except for the customer. As a seller, you are selling other things to other customers, right? If someone orders another laptop that uses the components that are hiked up, they will pay for it since it is now market value. Your items get restocked. The people who already paid? Either you eat the cost or decide to give the clients a choice of canceling.

Now, canceling them will cause bitter feelings to my customers. Why? They have been waiting patiently while I hold on to their money. I promised them something at that price and I didn't honor it. They lost time, and they are frustrated because now they have to spend MORE time finding another solution from somewhere else.

If I was a seller, I would not only give them their money back in full, but a small free gift for the troubles and ease their pain. It should not bankrupt you (after all, you're not banking your whole business selling just the IFL90, right? You are selling other stuff.). Plus, I take solace in the fact that the interest I made with their deposit should more than cover the small gift.

Newegg has done that before - an appreciation gift sent to me because they screwed up an order. In the end, I got what I ordered for despite that i came weeks later than it should. One of those cheap MP3 players. I didn't care for it, but it was the thought that counts. They really seemed to go out of their way.

 

I'm going to jump in on the business thing one more time, hopefully the last time, because as L1 said, I'd like to see it go back to its original intent, even though I was probably one of the principles involved in the hijacking.

There is a difference in the definitions between accountability and responsibility. To simplify, responsibility means its your fault, accountability means whether it is your fault or not, the buck stops with you. As a previous military officer, I spent my entire life being accountable for my actions and those of everyone who worked for me, whether I was directly responsible for something they did or not.

Now as a member of the civilian workforce, I think some of you guys will see where some of us have this concept of the vendors being accountable to the customer, regardless of whether or not they are to blame, once you join the same. I do not know that anyone here has claimed that any of this is the vendor's fault, the point is that they are the ones accountable to their customer's. Example: I do not know that Microsoft is responsible for all of the defective 360's on the market; for it to be their "fault" it would have to be a design flaw. Since there are plenty of units based off the same initial design that operate fine, let's make the assumption, for the sake of argument, that it is a flaw in the manufacturing process. The manufacturing is outsourced to fab plants in Asia, they are not Microsoft plants. MS is still accountable, even though they may not be directly to blame for the flawed manufacturing process.

This is why I provided the examples of how I had to recently deal with errors in products getting to my customers. I was not responsible; ie I was not to blame, and it was not my fault, but as the closest in the pipeline to the customer, I was accountable. This is not a matter of how "my business runs". This is the fundamental basis of corporate behavior in a capitalist economy, or at least in the US judicial system. I think if you run this by any business ethics professor at your college, his cut would be in a similar vein, random samples on the periphery notwithstanding. Acceptance of anything less than that, IMO, is due to a customer agreeing to let something go, not because the customer does not have the inherent right to demand the service they bought into. Despite the requests for legalese, when you run through case studies you will find that most rulings dictate that unless a vendor has a specific disclaimer on their website or whatever contractual vehicle that was used to indicate that there should be an expectation of delays, then there is no reasonable cause for a customer to expect anything other than material paid for delivered in accordance with the prescribed schedule. The judicial and business assumption is that, unless articulated otherwise, you are buying a product to be delivered at the agreed upon time. Our system places the onus on the vendor/provider to caveat this expectation, not on the customer. This out can be covered with a statement as simple as "Delivery dates are estimated to the best of our ability, but are not firm commitment dates for shipping. Vendor X will do everything we can to deliver your product as close to the advertised estimated ship date as possible, but in the end your purchase order does not carry with it a binding delivery date if the cause for delay is due to supply issues or other factors outside of our immediate control."...or something like that. A lot of sites have disclaimers like this, and maybe these guys do too or did, but nobody has pulled that thread yet.

If a defective part is installed in my car by the dealer when I take it in for service (tomorrow), and there is an engine failure that deprives me of my ability to use the car, I can assure you that that dealer will provide me a rental car for the duration of the downtime of my car, and conduct repairs to my car for any damage caused by installation of the faulty part, even though they (the dealership) did not manufacture it and even though they are not owned directly by Ford. Whatever has to get worked out between the dealer and Ford and the part manufacturer and all of that churn will not, and should not, effect me. I should not have to get involved in it and manage it. Now that does not give me the right to sue the dealership for a few million, but it gives me the right to be delivered the services purchased, as long as I, the customer, did not do anything to cause the malfunction.

So my intent is not to start this debate over again or ask or expect people to change their minds; I just thought that by maybe throwing out the difference in the definitions between accountability and responsibility that it might offer some clarification about how and why some of us have taken the position we have. And I'm not saying older people know everything and college people don't know anything, I just wanted to offer perspectives based on dynamics that maybe some folks had not been exposed to yet. Anyway, I'll shut up. Me tired.
- Vr/Z.

 

I see your point and I don't want to come across as haughty or anything. I definitely understand making the customer happy and it's true it's usually nothing important but the thought behind actually trying to make the customer happy is what counts.

However, I think you only saw part of what I meant to say. RLM was contending that he wanted a rebate because the Canadian dollar has strengthened in the last two months against the American dollar and the perceived value of the laptop has gone done. Now, truthfully, the hardware is exactly the same but the outlay for it has changed. I don't see how it's fair to the business to expect to be extra apologetic and refund the $400, but say the Canadian dollar dips to the American dollar, swallow the loss and say nothing.

Certainly, the business can do something behind the scenes to make up for that $400 because I'm sure they are aware of it. Perhaps offer a free upgrade or some add-on to make the customer happier and turn the profit. But doesn't this fall directly into the company's discretion? They can choose to make a refund on a personal basis, but if there is no widespread outcry, from the business' perspective why should they do anything? Ethically it's murky, sure, but we're talking about the cutthroat free trade market here.

I guess my point is, I don't think it's the express obligation of business to make amazing deals because I'm sure they eat losses too at times. It's certainly good business practice to make your customers happy and if it means skimming off a little of the profit margin, that's a worthy investment. But if consumers all adopted this attitude of entitlement then businesses would be forced to shut down at some point wouldn't they?

Ah, I'm rambling. Again, I'm just entering college so I have no biz experience whatsoever. Just my thoughts. I'm not massively pro-business and I don't mean to attack anyone personally.

Whew...

 

The problem with the Canadian buyer could have been minimized by only taking a small deposit instead of the full cost (or eliminated all together by not taking orders at all). What reason would a seller need the full amount for? None. (They haven't paid and bought any Compal IFL90 chassis yet simple because they are not available hence the wait for us). As I stated before, the other components doesn't even enter the picture because they are used for other builds.

I'm not saying that they are obligated to offer low prices, did I? Not at all (dunno why you brought that up). It's simply a suggestion on how to be fair to your customers, as this current system isn't really fair.

But of course, a few dollars here and there from an individual isn't a big deal. If they all go to a single place, it adds up. The person holding all that money comes out on top, while everyone else only looses a little. It's not that bad of a hit for the customers. If 10000 people gives me a dollar, it's no skin off their back. But I made $10,000. Fair to you?

Oh well... what IS the intended topic? lol. My order and ETA for the IFL90 is in my sig. There.

PS: I didn't know about the fire at Compal? Is that the reason for the back order? Any links to this "old" news? I only came here when I was researching to buy my laptop. Didn't even know the IFL90 was back ordered until I started ordering.

 

Lol. We're discussing why we're waiting for our IFL90s. I don't see anyone objecting. It's just fair, level-headed banter, no attacks or flames or anything.

Anyway, in terms of what Zeux said, there is a thin line drawn in the sand between accountability and responsibility. I agree that ultimately in taking payment, and as naddie points out, the issue with taking full payment as soon as the order is placed the resellers take ultimate accountability to deliver the promised product. However, does it necessarily make it their responsibility to make up for problems completely out of their control? Such as the Compal case fire which Donald (paladin44) mentioned previously in this thread I believe. How is Xotic or PNB responsible for the Canadian dollar getting stronger? They have no way to make it go up or down either way.

Of course, I realize that good business practice dictates that the company go above and beyond being simply "accountable" for delivering a final product properly. In order to appease people and earn repeat business, they must take on the "responsibility" of making the customer happy no matter what.

But then this kind of runs into the issue I've harped on several times. Each laptop is a very personal, individual purchase; there's a reason Xotic and PNB give you so many options when configuring a laptop. Therefore, shouldn't Xotic and PNB treat each and every individual as a specialized purchase? Xotic is building a laptop for me; although I don't like it and would certainly like a rebate/free upgrade, I do not feel like pushing for one as if I were somehow entitled to something simply because an order is running late or the turnaround is rather long. In cases like naddie, you would appreciate the company making a gesture that "we are trying and here is a token of our appreciation for sticking with us". Is that right?

Therefore, isn't this what customer service is? If, say naddie, you were to speak to a CSR, I'm sure they could arrange something if you pushed hard enough. From my experience with the CSRs, they are very responsive and work hard to please customers. As for myself, I wouldn't say I am "above" asking for a rebate, but I don't feel it's necessary. Maybe it's because I'm young and have plenty of time? I dunno.

Also, on another point, I've been thinking about the rather vague "Phases" that Xotic employs (I'm not sure about the others). Rather than put down a firm ETA on, in this case, a website, they keep it purposefully vague so people cannot ask for compensation because of a missed deadline. I mean, Dell is the premier example, "Dell-lays" leading to huge rebates and tons of free stuff because tangible ETAs are pushed back over and over.

I dunno, I might be rambling again. This much is true though, both Xotic and PNB have excellent track records and have built up a considerable reputation on these forums and through themselves, not undeserved either. Obviously they are selling significant numbers of laptops (back orders) so I would assume they are doing something right. Perhaps it's not perfect and perhaps they could do "more" for the consumer, but no business is perfect.

Well, it's probably a bad sign when I start misquoting people ^ (naddie). I got a big day tomorrow moving in and all. It's fun debating. I think we're starting to blur the lines between making points and grappling with shoulds/woulds/and coulds. Still interesting tho.

 

I hate to say it but I think it was an impulse buy, and the fact that I read a few posts that says the IFL90s are already shipping.

After reading this post, I got to thinking...

Why take full payment and not a partial payment (such as a down payment) for the IFL90s? (In regards to cash payments to get the rebate). Most other stores won't even charge you until they have the item in stock and ready to ship to you (credit card). So how can we have a way to secure a pre-order product with cash? My suggestion was a down payment and not full payment.

That's all I'm asking.

BTW: As for the "no business is perfect"... the tension between clients and sellers could be easied without much effort (or any extra money) on the seller's part. Why not impliment it? Make their customers happy? There is a difference between "nothing is perfect" and "there's always something flawed" mentality. One of them allows for the business to strive to be as "perfect" as they can.,

 

Seriously guys, this is the IFL90 SHIPPING thread. Not the "whine about how people do business". They do it their way, if you don't like it don't order from them. No one is holding a gun to your head.

Get it back on track, heck, start another "whining about things i DO have control over thread".

It's seriously annoying reading 20 paragraph posts that say the same exact thing every time. Like I say, if you don't like it, don't order there. They aren't holding your money hostage, and you KNEW before you ordered that's how they were doing it.

Lets get the thread back on track.

Speaking of which, mine is shipping soon!

 

I believe I made your point a bunch of times.

Sorry about the long, long posts but you don't have to be an a$$ about it. We, at least I, have made it a point to ask about others in later posts and there was nothing malicious meant by discussing so lengthily. We were just debating. Perhaps we got a little off track, but you didn't really have to read it if you didn't want to...

No offense meant, of course, and hopefully you get your lappy soon. Mine's run into some unfortunate snags.

Hey, congrats on getting it soon and hope you have fun with it, it's a great machine.

 

Hey Lazyone- when did you order? Any status on yours?

I just wonder when mine would realistically ship since I just ordered it on the 20th (only 2 days ago). If the shipping is going to when Penryn ships, then I'm canceling for a Penryn-based book.

Donald sweet-talked me in.

And what's going on at Compal?

 

Get it back on track? It's called the " Shipping/Waiting Thread". To be on track, I guess you want us to ..... wait for them to ... ship, do nothing else, and that will do it eh? I mean, because if we talk about other stuff, let's say, how to hook up an external monitor after we get the laptop, or some other laptop feature, well, that wouldn't fit here either, wouldn't be expected in THIS thread about .... what .... SHIPPING and WAITING. So, when I and a few others hijacked this thread, the posting had already slowed because there simply was no new information except, "sorry the wait is so long", and the other posts kept asking over and over, "when, when, when?". THAT was whining. There comes a point after asking 'when' so many times, and after comparing shipping times with others who ordered after you and received before you, where some of us had to stop and think a little.

So, a few of us asked ourselves "why", instead of only "when", and decided that how the resellers do business may have a little, or nothing, to do with WAITING and .... SHIPPING. And that's how we got from A to B and on the way to C, D, E ...?

If you are talking about Naddie and thelazyone22's little side thread about how naddie does business, OK, granted, it isn't an exact fit in this thread but I mean what the heck, all people here are doing is " WAITING" for " SHIPPING".

thelazyone22, naddie, RLM, Zeuxidamas, have all contributed fairly, openly, and for the most part have stayed on track regarding this topic about reseller "accountability vs. responsibility". All of us have agreed its nice to be part of a thread that doesn't flame, or attack and has stayed respectful. I REALLY like that; respect, patience, and tolerance for each other and our thoughts.

Topics evolve, change, move, become fluid, turn around, etc. especially when people have nothing else to do but wait.

I will admit, I should have dropped out because I canceled and by that definition, Zeuxidamas should never have given his 2 cents because he didn't even have to WAIT. But the thing is, this is a forum that welcomed us. We all had something in common with the thread, the IFL90. Some of us waited, some of us still wait, some of us canceled early. But all of us believe that what we have to say contributes to a better understanding the issues, and an opportunity to learn something from each other, 'different points of view'.

Of the people I've listed above who have contributed this past 4 or 5 days, including Donald from PNB (is he whining too?), we believe we are not whining. While I disagree with some of the points, they have disagreed with mine as well and that's what's called intelligent debate.

To date, your basic response to almost anything we have said about the resellers is once again, "they do it their way, if you don't like it don't order from them."

Your point has not changed very much since you first stated it. I see it, note it and respect it. So, essentially it has become 'our' discussion and has moved on, and has grown. We respect the challenges others have made to our point of view and for one, I have learned something. If you have nothing else to contribute, then getting this thread 'back on track' means stay calm and allow the rest of us to continue adding more info to an interesting debate about WAITING and SHIPPING and all the curious side aspects that we seem to be less annoyed about than you are. May we continue now?

PS: aeauvian If you are annoyed with 20 paragraph posts, try what I did through college, read only the BOLD print, take your test and say little. Just kidding, you have contributed more than you know. You mean well and we need some moderation from time to time. (Wasn't kidding about the bold print method for college though!)

 

I for one have rather enjoyed the byplay thats happened the last few days, it was far more entertaining than the sparse fare we've -been- getting.. and since it has to do with the resellers who are doing our shipping I say it was on topic, perhaps on the fringes of it but close enough. considering how far it could have gone, but didn't and how fun it was to read (if you bothered) I'd say let 'em debate.

and for the slightly more tedious aspect of this thread. Mine shipped yesterday! should be here next week! over 2 months of waiting is finally nearly over.

 

Thanks Nytingale!

I've enjoyed participating and I know others have. Otherwise there wouldn't be "20 paragraph" response posts.

Extra Extra, Read All About It!
BTW, from talking via email and PM's with you, it seems that those waiting for WXGA's on the IFL90 is essentially over if you ordered from Xotic or PNB. As Paladin/PNB posted here a day or so ago, hundreds became available and both resellers (and others) are shipping as fast as possible. The Compal IFL90's (Xotic's FORCE 3297 and PNB PowerPro J 10:15) in the WXGA resolution appears to be on course and shipping fast! Great news for many of you! I don't know how that applies to Sager versions with the WXGA, probably the same. I hope this is all true as I am saying and I'm not becoming a 'good news' rumor monger.

On the other hand, from what I am hearing from some of you, the WSXGA higer resolution model are still delayed. From my local reseller, seriously still dealyed.

In any event, while you wait, let the debate go on!

PS: My local reseller has mine ready and I'll pick it up Tuesday! Unfortunately, he was reluctant, actually, refused to give me a list of names of other non-internet resellers listed in his association directory. Something about ethics ....

 

I think I'm going to cancel my order. Is it because of the wait? The disgust of the full-payment? The lack of update?

Hell no!

Fry's Electronics have the Toshiba Satellite X205-S9349 for $1499.99!

17" WXGA+ 1440x900 Glossy
T7100 (1.8 GHz)
GeForce 8700GT 256 MB GDDR3
HD-DVD/DVD SuperMulti Drive
2-way speakers with sub (sounds awesome!)
240 GB HD (2x120GB) 5400 RPM (1 Fujitsu with flash memory, 1 Hitachi no flash)
2 GB of DDR2 RAM
1.3 MP webcam

The only thing I don't like about the laptop:
Big screen (wanted something more portable), soft keyboard, slower CPU (originally wanted a T7500), battery life may be much lower.

But for the same price as the Compal IFL90 and a faster video card (and MXM III), I really can't complain.

I dunno if I am gonna keep both HDs on (Vista on one, Ubuntu on other) or take one out (extend battery life) and just partition it for both OSes.

I'm typing this post on it as I speak. I'm going to play around with it for a few days to see if I like it. If not, I'll return it. If I decide to keep it, I will be calling PNB to cancel my order.

For those who are interested, check your local Fry's Electronics!

 

My Configuration ----------

15.4 WSXGA
Core Duo 2.4GHz
4GB RAM
250GB Hard Drive (5,400RPM)
combo DL superMulti DVDRW/CDRW drive and software
4&1 card reader
Intel PRO/Wireless 4965 802.11a/g/n
Bluetooth
9-cell battery
OS Vista 32 Ultimate or XP Pro (not sure yet)
Car adapter
3 year warranty, on site only because my dealer is local

I don't know about anyone else, but with that configuration, I paid about $2,200. It seems about the same or a little less than PNB and or Xotic. If your IFL90 was about $1,499.99, it must have been fairly basic and this Toshiba would give you a LOT more for the money, yes?

I didn't see it on FRYS.com, like you said, in their stores. I did see it on the Toshiba site for $1,899.99 and $2,399.99 for the Elite version. I'm sure Fry's is cheaper as you said. Both have only a 1 year parts and labor warranty. Toshiba's basic 2/3 year warranty would be about $135.00 more and their 3 year, about equal to Xotic and PNB standard warranty on the IFL90 would add about $179.00. For their 3 year on-site, add $225.00.

The video card is the DREAM! Other than that, it has a slower processor and the hard-drive is 2-120GB drives. I looked at it awhile ago and 17" is way too big for me to lug around on my back and bike. I get home or work and plug the 15.4 into an external monitor anyway. But I would LOVE that video card! Despite the 4 Harman/Kardon speakers, no matter what brand or how many, they are all about the size of a nickel or so. I have never heard 'fantastic, unparalleled' sound on ANY notebook to date. I listened to a Satellite once with the 4 speakers and I admit it is good, even very good but not 'excellent'.

I wish you the best in your choice. Buying a new laptop almost made me crazy this time! Choosing is never easy because there is 'no' perfect lappy. Good luck and happy times with it.

 

Well, I finally received my IFL90 but its really odd...the manual talks about LEDs in top right corner of keyboard (for NumLock, CapsLock and HDD Access) but mine doesnt show any such lights. Furthermore, right next to where these LEDs should appear, are 5 touch sensitive "hot keys" which on my machine do not respond. I'm wondering if its possible some wire was not connected inside my laptop - Im a bit scared to open it up..I have experience with desktops but none in playing inside laptops! Any advice or knowledge about this issue?

 

Looking at the pictures. I don't see the LED's. Perhaps they come on when the function is used, next to the 5 hot keys? (see the review and pictures on NOTEBOOKREVIEW.COM/Compal IFL90 User Review Lots of pictures and enlarge them.

Don't really know about this but will get mine on Tuesday and find out I guess.

Numerous posts about this issue. Some, not all ship out with some cable not attached inside to activate the hot keys. There are posts and links (do a search) about how to attach it yourself and activate the keys. Or, just call your reseller tech hotline or whatever they call their support. The hotkeys DO work with minimal help.

 

Aladdin:
I ordered my PNB IFL90 back in June and received it only about a month ago. My hard drive light and the heat sensitive buttons didn't work either. I pulled the cover off of that button area and sure enough, mine cable was not connected inside. And this was AFTER it was a well known issue.
Just follow this link to help yourself out, or call tech support. Just make sure that you pull those little gray tabs out so that you are able to insert the ribbon cable. I didn't read Sto-Com's thread closely enough and it took me a while to figure it out.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=2275751

 

jurassicjet's link is the best to fix this issue. I still recommend calling your salesperson. This issue was known awhile ago. IMHO, it is the resellers who should check to make sure this does not become your issue. Once again, accountability/responsibility, whatever... as I understand it, most of the resllers do a 24 hour test before shipping it. It should have been picked up during that time.

Paladin44 posted about it back on 08-29-2007 and it was known before that.

There is more about the issue in that thread.

In any event, if the link in jurassicjet's post didn't include the following, here is a great pictorial on how to attach the cable.

Power (WOW) button cable attachement etc

Finally, here is a picture of the LED's next to those heat sensitive power buttons. I gussed correctly, (I hope ), they come on when in use. Click the thumbnail.

 

...I hate to tell you this after having to read through all of your whining and wasting space on this forum, but your configuration is horrible. The 32 bit OS'es you plan to use will not address even 75% of your 4GB of RAM(see http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605 ). You also waste more money on a 2.4GHz cpu, when you probably wouldn't notice the difference over the 2.2GHz. You then decide to skimp on hard drive performance by going 5400?! The money you could have saved on ram and cpu would have bought you a noticeable performance gain with a 7200.2 3gb/s hard drive. Guess your local dealer is more concerned about money than informing you on what makes sense to purchase.

Should have called PNB. Mine ships monday and although I ordered June 21 worth the wait. They do issue refunds for the diff between what you paid at order time and what they sell for now. In my case I traded for some upgraded hardware.

 

Sorry, but I agreed with mike008us

There is not justification on getting that many parts that are powerful and then crimping them with a 5400RPM hard drive.

Make the RAM 2GB, and go with a 7200RPM drive, like mike008us said. With the parts selected, it will vastly improve performance. If you are worried about batterly life, it shouldn't really make too much of a difference. If you do decided on keeping the 4GB, go with 64bit, otherwise the RAM will just sit there.

 

Thanks for the kind way of introducing yourself. Not everyone has disagreed with my whining and wasting space.

Regarding my choices ... if you are offering advice like bxturtle, then thank you in advance. I am still a novice at buying laptops, not using them. I am not a gamer.

My reseller explained a lot and perhaps I didn't understand everything. What I did understand is that with the brand of HD he chose, the 5400 will run cooler. It may be both our mistake. He is more familiar with Asus as I've mentioned and in that regard, on a C90, the 5400 RPM is preferred for the cool reason on that machine everywhere I've read about it. So, perhaps it's not an issue on the IFL90. I'll take it under consideration and get back to him, that part of the configuration can change. He lives 45 miles from me, has the hard drives, not an issue.

Regarding the 4GB, again, being an old customer, I can change to Vista Ultimate 64 bit (my eventual intention) as quickly as I can the hard drive. So, let the RAM sit for now, won't hurt anything. The money isn't my biggest concern right now.

So, the biggest issue is the hard drive. I appreciate the advice and will probably make the change.

Very unkind, very untrue, and very unnecessary. I am not locked into anything regarding the OS or hard drive. I am stuck with the 4GB obviously. As I mentioned, I did order from one of the online resellers (PNB/Xotic) before canceling. Both of them DID discuss the OS/4GB issues and recommended strongly against it. They did not however say anything about my choice of a 5400rpm hard drive and allowed me to configure that. So, according to your view, PNB and Xotic are "more concerned about money than informing [me] on what makes sense to purchase." The fact is a lot simpler, both of them simply didn't recognize my ignorance, as a result, I didn't ask the right questions, and, they accepted my choice with honesty and integrity the same as my dealer.

PS: bxturtle
Because I could afford the 2.4GHz, however slight and unnoticeable, it won't decrease my peformance and will increase it if only slightly, right?

In your opinion, how much of a peformance improvement for a non gamer will the 7200rpm make on loading times and overall? Can you point me somewhere I can see some more info too.

 

I would say a non-gamer would still notice the improvment. That faster RPM will increase the boot time for whatever OS you are running, the jump should be fairly noticable as far as "big" differences go. The main reason would be for moving/playing any music or videos. As a non gamer, keep in mind you do have what is a fairly good gaming rig, so the other parts would probably help, but In my opinion, go with a 7200RPM.

Either way, I'm sure you'll like the machine, I'm getting mine tomorrow .

Can anyone find benchmarks to prove (or disprove) my opinion? Any other input?

 

Well, parts of this are probably going to get me flame-sprayed but here goes:

I could not find hard benchmark numbers to support your position, but in general, every write-up I found supported the assessment of 5400RPM drives versus 7200RPM drives, that is that the 7200RPM drive is faster and provides a performance boost, with faster random access seek times and (obviously) file transfer times..other than that, the "performance gains" are only detectable under specific conditions and for specific applications or tasks for the average user.

So my only thing is that I question whether or not anyone who is not doing a lot of audio or video editing, or managing a huge archive of data is really going to see the difference. 15 seconds faster boot time? What do most people do while their PC is booting up? I guess I just don't sit there watching it and getting hacked off that it is not 15 seconds faster.

Actually I would contend a gamer is not going to see that much of a difference in-game, since most of the data the game needs is loaded into RAM and then most of the data is accessed from there. It will provide a boost in level load times, but not once they're in-level. WD's not a huge gamer, so I guess that does not matter.

For the average user, is the faster load time of a word document or spreadsheet really going to make a noticeable difference? Video, image editing, audio, certainly.

As far as memory goes, since you can not get 1.5GB SoDIMMS, 4GB is the only way to get above 2GB when you have a machine with only 2 RAM slots, no?

I agree that maybe there is a mismatch in parts, and so, to get the most out of the system, moving to a faster hard drive maybe makes sense, since WD says that money is not a major issue. Real world, I do not know how much it buys him. Faster seek times, no doubt, but WD will have to talk to whether or not he is doing anything with the system that would make that a significant jump. It would have been nice if the initial assessment could have come across a little more politely as well (not you turtle).
- Vr/Z.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't need an article to tell me that faster hard disk seek/read/write times will improve performance. I know the hard drive is bottle neck in the overall system architecture(afterall HD seek time is in ms, ram is in ns). If it was affordable every system would have flash based storage(not magnetic disk). Remember not everything is pre-loaded into ram. You rarely will find yourself waiting because your CPU isn't fast enough.

Also, when you have a 3.12GB Ram limitation, minus video RAM (512MB here), you're left with about 2.6GB addressable system ram. Not really worth it to have 4GB. And to answer WD, going to 64 bit Windows won't be as easy as swapping your hard drive. You'll have to purchase that new 64 bit Windows license, transfer your data, re-install and configure apps, etc. It would be more cost effective to upgrade to the next Windows 64 bit OS in a few years when you buy your next laptop or just go 64 bit now. Zeux.. the fact is that no matter what you're doing with your PC the hard disk is going to be continuously accessed and if you're buying a system for it's high end components, you would be foolish to skimp on this key component. It's like putting cheap all season tires on your 400h.p. sports car.

I'm done with this forum because my laptop will be here in 2 days. I'm not a gamer. My primary use for the laptop (95%) will be my IT business. The other 5% will be gaming. I don't feel I was out of order in response to WD seeing how he spoke about PNB/Xotic. If he's a novice he's welcome to ask q's. However he shouldn't hide beind being a "novice" after he's cut-down resellers with good customer service and great prices because he's too needy and can't understand that their supply issue is beyond their control. For being tech-friendly resellers they do an awful lot in the customer service department. They're always there to answer questions beyond their advertised hours and email at all times of the day. When I say tech-friendly, I really mean they know what technical users want and have technical answers for our questions.

 

Thanks for your opinion on the matter, Zeux. While I agree it may not be all that much of a difference, I think it would make a larger improvment than hopping from 2GB to 4GB or RAM would. HOWEVER, this is speculation. My laptop is coming tomorrow, and I will be putting home premium 32 bit vista on it. I would have gotten 64, but the lack of software taking advantage of it saddens me.

Overall though, If thats what you ordered, stick with it, it will still suit you very well. I can speak for myself when I say I would just leave the config be, I would be too afraid of complicating things by changing it.

The 7200RPM is something to keep in mind for next time however.

There is always a next time
As I am new to the forums still as I registered to ask questions on this machine, I hope I have been a bit helpful.

I'll still check in time to time, even after I get my laptop tomorrow.

Oh, and to everyone who ordered recently for WXGA, or is still waiting on the matte screen, I hope yours comes in soon!!!

 

Him. I've spaced out on the last few pages with the long rants. All I have to comment is something I'm seeing on PNB.
It's all good waiting but now I'm seeing this. "Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 4965 802.11a/g/n (Back ordered till mid October)" Mid freaking October!!! I'm OK with waiting on the screen, I'm OK waiting on Compal but the freaking wireless card was in when ordered, I'm hearing of the smaller screens going out first and now there out of the wireless card. First come first serve but when one monitor comes in first and you jump over the line of others to serve the new orders (That monitor was added the day after I ordered) as it wasn't a option the day I ordered now its personal and now its bull.

I'd like to hear from Donald about this. It was a July order for me and it's been 2 weeks since I could get in contact with my sales rep (Donald) I've only called 3 times in the time but now I cant even get in contact? I just want an update but from what the site is saying it is unacceptable.

It's not like I can switch to a lame Dell or retarded HP. They dont have the performance and offer an unacceptable warranty where the OS affects the hardware warranty. So no Gentoo, no Ubuntu, no Fedora, nothing but Vista.

Sorry for my long rant. I hate long posts too and this is a long one.

 

mike008us,

I hope you return once more.

I have said all along that the customer phone service has been excellent with PNB/Xotic. And, I said it again in my last post, ... "they accepted my choice with honesty and integrity the same as my dealer."

My criticisms have always been about the total package, from purchase to receipt of the product. Advice, assistance with buying, is SUPERB, EXCELLENT, FANTASTIC. Other practices, not my style. This WAS the FIRST, and LAST time I will ever pay in full for a product, of any kind, without a reasonable and timely return. People told me, 'that's the way it is with on-line laptop buying, you pay and wait'. I say hogwash, that's the way it is because you allow it to be that way. It is MY MONEY and nobody will hold it hostage again.

You said I should put up or shut up so that IS why I canceled. NOT because of how they treat me on the phone or because I think they are evil. I simply believe, they like many other business are perpetrating lower business standards overall and by accepting them, we pass them on to the next generation of consumers. Every time we do nothing, the standards become lower and lower.

One action would have been to not order until they were ready to ship regardless of who was responsible for the delays. Again, this wasn't about delays, for me it has always been about doing good business. The delay was one aspect of it. How the resllers handled it did not represent the best choices on their part. I would have watched the forum representing my laptop and wait until it is shipping regularly. With the abundance now of the WXGA screens, and if the wireless was not a new issue, it seems that if I ordered an IFL90 WXGA today, the wait would only be about 1-2 weeks. During the 2 months of watching and waiting without buying, I would have been in control of my money, it would have earned 'me' interest, and would have been available to me if I saw something else I wanted. That's good consumer practice. Had there been a small pre-pay option, I may have also chosen that recognizing the resellers have to get something down in good faith and to begin the process. THEY chose not to make that an option. But full payment without a 'reasonable' expectation of receipt of purchase is simply unacceptable and why I canceled. You already heard my rants on this.

Anyway, I believe you mean well, thank you for your advice, and I congratulate you on getting your laptop. Have fun with it!

 

Even though Mike is not coming back, I wanted to apologize and make clear my response and its intent:

I was not trying to lecture anyone who already knew this information, I was just trying to highlight where a faster disk access time would help, where it wouldn't, and whether I felt it would be noticeable. I did this in an attempt to help out Windance, who it sounded like was considering swapping some items out in his config, maybe now or further down the road. Dance, I also wanted to hopefully pass to you that despite the comment that "your configuration is horrible" I think it's ok. You may not be leveraging every ounce of capability, but I think you will still be ok.

In case I did not communicate it effectively the first time, WD, if you wind up buying another one of these, I concur with mike and turtle, that it is feasible that some additional cost was incurred by stretching to 4GB of RAM and the 2.4GHz CPU but tying it to a 5400RPM HD that is not buying you too much additional head-room. I would pitch that 2GB of RAM and the 2.2GHz CPU would have been enough. I think my perception though, is based more on the incremental cost increases caused by individual components, and the noticeable difference in performance they provide to the user. mike and I probably have the same opinion, but come at it a different way.

So again, I apologize, I was just trying to communicate that, for you Windance, I do not think there is a huge amount to be gained by swapping anything out on your laptop right now...other than maybe getting a lisence for 64-bit Windows Vista. The only thing I disagreed with was how mike presented it the first time around.
- Vr/Z.

 

Spoke with Donald and he says the 1200x800 LCDs have no wait any longer, so I switched my screen.

As for the Toshiba X205, I was going to return it, but my brother expressed interest in purchasing it from me. He wanted a portable gaming machine to play Starcraft 2 when it comes out and this would be a good machine to do that (and to replace his desktop completely).

I wanted something even more portable (the 15.4"). The Toshiba is great, but in the end, the size will kill me.

Anyways, 1200x800 on a 15.4" - how is that? Will the fonts be too big? I'm so used to 1200x800 on my 12.1" (MSI MS-1013/S270), but wonder if I stretch that res to 15.4" it would be uncomfortably big.

 

Well tonight when I get mine I will tell you about the 15.4" at 1200x800 screen. I didn't want to pay extra (or wait) for a higher res, and I went to best buy to check out how they looked, and it seemed ok. I'll keep in touch and let ya know.
I will be home in about 5 hours, and it better be on time!!!

 

One of the reasons that I went with an off-the-shelf solution was that I could not see the use or need, in contrast to the higher cost, of a higher resolution screen in a 15.4" display. 1280 X 800 has worked fine for me over the last two or three laptops.

Where it causes an issue, if you are using it to play games, is whether or not that specific resolution is supported. Even though some games come advertised as supporting widescreen, the 1280 X 800 resolution is not always an available option, so you have to set it at 1280 or 1024 X 768.

I use 1440 X 900 on my widescreen 19" LCD's that I use on my desktops. I think 1280 X 800 is fine for a 15.4" LCD.

Naddie, I agree with you on the switch to support greater portability. I had gone with a 17" HP to try and use it as a gaming notebook replacement, but when I saw that the 15.4" Compal's had become available, I chose to offload my HP and go with the IFL90, despite the lower resolution.
- Vr/Zeux.

 

Hmm, it seems i was mistaken. I ordered august 14th, not the 17th
As of today, my laptop has been in "sent to production" for 8 days, after being in "Pre-order pending" for a month and 3 days.

I guess i will continue to gaze forlornly at the steady stream of people who ordered end of August and even early September, who have received their laptops while i continue to wait patiently for something that may or may not ever make it out of the mysterious inner darkness that consumes the Xotic PC warehouse...

 

Zeuxidamas, your comments were well intended, well taken, no need to apologize. I truly understand the 4GB issue and would have changed to 3GB if I had understood in time. My reseller had that as an option. Nonetheless, 1GB will sit and do no harm. He gave me deal on the 4GB and it cost about $20.00 more than the 3GB would have. On PNB, the difference between 3GB and 4GB is $100.00. He would probably not offer me the deal later. Had to take it and let 1GB sit for $20.00.

PS- already have a license for Vista 64, tried it and right now, XP Pro meets my needs better, personal choice.

Been reading about the 5400 vs the 7200. In the end, you guys are right when comparing a 7200/200GB to the 5400/250GB hard drive. There would be about a 20% improvement in access speeds. Transfer speeds would be about the same. However, when comparing a 7200/100GB or 160GB, the 5400/250GB comes out to about the same or better because of areal density of the 5400 which is greater on the 5400/250 vs the 7200/100.

"Areal density, also sometimes called bit density, refers to the amount of data that can be stored in a given amount of hard disk platter "real estate".​

So, the 50GB difference in density between the 5400/250 and the 7200/200 would not make much difference and the 7200 would have been a better choice.

Overall, a 7200 will always have greater access speeds no matter what ... but they are compensated for in my system by the 3GB of usable RAM, 2.4GHz process, lower resolution (yes, I changed to WXGA at the last minute after seeing the text and icons too small for me) and XP Pro.

I have my laptop now, it IS fantastic, slight glare on the screen (but at least I can read it and deal with it), and the rest I still need to test.

When the newest 7200/300GB or whatever comes out sometime next year and the price drops, I can put the 5400 into my enclosure as a 2nd backup drive, already have another 5400/160 in it.

I will still frequent this thread. It has been helpful, entertaining and for the most part, comfortable. Thank you all for your help and advice.

 

So what's the verdict?

 

Sorry, didn't see your post til now. Fry's does not have it on their site or their papers. I went up and saw a display that says $1399 for the x205 with the T7100. They were going to sell the display, but found they had it new (for $1499). They were discontinuing it (weird, since it is a new model). That was the Downers Grove, IL location. YMMV.

As for my config for the Compal, it's in my sig. It's "basic" I guess, but it's still a lot of laptop for me. I am coming from an MSI MS-1013 (S270 equivalent).

15.4" 1200x800 Glossy
Core Duo 2.2GHz
8600GT 512MB GDDR2
1GB RAM (will buy another stick elsewhere for cheaper).
160GB Hard Drive (5,400RPM - load times not an issue with me while money is!)
combo DL superMulti DVDRW/CDRW drive
4&1 card reader
Intel PRO/Wireless 4965 802.11a/g/n
Bluetooth
9-cell battery
No OS (already have licenses for XP Pro and Vista Ultimate)
1 year warranty from PNB

A little OT - Will there be a 8600GT with GDDR3 for the MXM-II so we can do a slight upgrade in the future? I know the 8700GT is out of the question (MMX-III). Looks like 8600GT is the best you can get in MXM-II, but I'm hoping for better in the near future.

 

well i changed my order from the powerpo to a sager.... im on it right now and i LOVE IT!!!