Adding Aftermarket Internal GPS to the CF-28

Since we are headed in this direction and it is only a matter of time before we figure this out... I thought I would go ahead and start a new thread devoted entirely to adding aftermarket GPS to the CF-28. This has nothing to do with the thread already started that discusses the factory GPS from Panasonic.

I was going to try to hook up to the IR connection but am having a hard time figuring the pin-out. The IR PC board has the same connection and shows where pin 1 is. But using the same logic and looking at the mobo to figure the pin out doesn't seem to work.

Anyone have any ideas on this. Anyone have any ideas about other places to hook up? Pin 37 on CN18 shows GPS_IN on the service manual. If you follow 009:I9 that is connects to... The connection actually goes to many different places.... If I am reading the schematic correctly.

I am building another CF-28 and really wanted to put in GPS this time.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: As you read on through the pages here you will find that the group did solve this and has found a way to install aftermarket GPS in the CF-28. While this will make entertaining reading for some, others may want to try this. If you lack basic electronics and soldering skills you should NOT attempt this! You could end up frying your motherboard or, at the very least, the GPS unit you would like to install. If you lack the skills, you may want to seek out someone who does and have them do it for you. Either way... You have been warned that the processes and steps discussed herein can potentially render your CF-28 a 9 pound paperweight!

 

where are you hooking up? are you wiring into where the LEDs connect? I would think the signal voltage would be too low for you to do anything with. My next thought is the timing/waveform of the LED output probably isn't just straight RS232 Tx/Rx. That would be just too simple You would have to find out where the conversion from RS232 to IRda takes place.

 

You are correct sir... You also had a good suggestion about the main board idea. I think I'll play around with it tomorrow.

I have taken apart an old cell carrier and take it off the board. It looks like we'll be able to attach the GPS to that much easier... Then use the ribbon cable to hook it up to either of the connectors.

 

What about USB type GPS? You could put one into case, connect it directly into USB port (or USB hub/ USB PCMCIA card)? I think it would be much easier way. (I plan to do it with PCMCIA card, but need one for rebuild (shorten it), then it would be no problem with internal BT etc.)

 

I wonder if USB can handle a star topology. In other words, can you put the internal dongle in parallel across the pins of the external port and still be able to use both?

 

Yes... If you hook on to the external USB port you will lose the availability to use it for other things. That's why I was thinking about hooking into the docking connector. The service manual clearly shows the USB connections on that. This way.... You keep the stock USB port but you would lose the availablity of using the USB on the dock if you were ever hook up to one.

I am headed down to my shop in a few to hook up the main board and check for available voltages. My Father-In-Law is headed up here tonight. He's an electronics & PC whiz... Hopefully we'll be able to figure something out together.

 

Well... I found another main board I had lying around that had a RIM engine on it. The other one had a CDPD engine on it. The main boards are identicle. So... They use the same board for all configurations as suspected. After poking around I found a 3.3V spot on L306. Both boards have nothing in this spot. The right connection has 3.3V. I also found several other good voltages depending on what application you want to run. The right side of C201 has 15.1V. I've also found 5V and 12V... So we can use the board to tie in just about anything!

I'm going to try to hook up the GPS in a few.

 

Hi! do you still have the ribbon on it that connect to CN(A)? if you have, you are almost done of your assignment. Look for pin 23 and 24 at CN(A) follow on that pin all the way to rim board If that is not connected to rim, good, if it is, isolate that to rim brd only at back of connector coz that pin or pins are your tx and rx. Or you may use pin 27 & 28 of CN(A) same instruction to point out on the rim board and then after pinpointing out, install your aftermarket gps receiver module. You mentioned that you already knew the location of a 3.3 volts for your supply, so you are done. good luck

 

With the GPS engine I am using, I only need +3.3 to 12 V a Gnd a TX RX and sig gnd. I am curious on how to make the antenna connection in the top of the LCD??? I m sure a few of you have seen the toughbooks on Ebay that have been modified with the right side GPS antenna....Do I need an active GPS antenna?? I have decided to figure out the pinout on the port replicator port for COM2... Most likely to be the easiest way to start off... I have had the 28 apart about 15-20 times so that isn't an issue....I am just needing part numbers for the GPS antenna to mount to the LCD... If i get that mastered, I will do it to my cf 29 next.. Thanks in advance...

 

look on this: http://www.rcatsystems.com/cube/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=17 that can be mounted on the portion of the panel where the rim antena located.

 

I am pretty sure I have this figured out... At least for my application. Unfortunately I am leaving for the holidays and won't be back until Saturday night. I'll be working on this Sunday for sure.

I will have sporadic Internet access during my traveling but I will try to pop in on you guys while I'm gone.

I hope everyone has a safe and happy Thanksgiving!

 

Hey Toughbook,
Am I understanding that you are ditching the stock panisonic GPS engine? I have the stock internal GPS - is it worth trying to just add a better external screen mount antenna or is the whole engine just not good enough. If so what engine do you recommend? Thanks

Still loving the external WIFI mod - thanks again. Going to tackle the Hard Drive soon - later Thanks

 

I've got a whole pile of things I'm dealing with this week, but here's some ideas to throw around.

While not as good as the modern GPS engines, with a good antenna the stock Panasonic GPS setup might get you some results. Keep in mind, I don't recommend buying a stock GPS system and doing this (for the cost involved), but you could buy one of the antennas that we are trying out (Sarantel Geohelix-s antenna) and route it through your GPS board.

If you have the "Do it yourself" spirit, you can probably do the whole thing for less than $50.

 

Yes... I am ditching the stock GPS setup. I want high tech not trailing edge of technology. There have been others who have added an external anenna to the stock GPS without getting too good results. They didn't use the geohelix antenna though so that may be worth a try.

I think the engine I bought is an EM408... I got it from sparkfun.com I think. It ran $60+ and is a 20 channel setup.

The pinouts (from memory) are
1. On/Off
2. TX
3. RX
4. GND
5. Power

The Rx pin does not need to be used but should be pulled high by using a resistor to get 3.5 volts going to it. I think I can getthis working on Sunday/Monday... Then I'll need to figure out running the leads to the antenna and mounting it.

I hope everyone is enjoying their Thanksgiving!

 

No! The Rx pin must be connected the on/off switch is the optional you may or may not.

 

The PDF doc on this states that you don't have to use it unless you plan on using Sirfdemo software or user written software... If it is not connected... THEN use the resistor. I don't plan on using any software except what the Tx would supply to the GPS software like Streets and Trips... I don't believe that the Rx pin is needed for that. The TX is connected to the GPS_IN on pin 37 on CN-18 (I think... I'm working from memory here.) The RX is not needed for my application.

 

so, you don't need for multi application thats what you mean?

 

Is there any harm in connecting it?

 

Gravitar, the only reason to connect it is so you can write to it's firmware (Change baud rate for example). There is a few neat tricks you can do to it, but if you're using Streets and Trips (like I am), any mods you do to the firmware will make the software unable to read the unit.

I've still gotta try out iGuidance because I heard it can support higher baud rates.

http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25575

I'd still like to add in the RX pin just to tamper with it, but I could live without it.

 

Is this the type of module on your hand? http://www.globalsat.com.tw/mana_php/support/file/EM-408_User_Manual.pdf

 

I just am unsure where to attach it. (Rx) The only thing the service manual shows is GPS IN... Not out.

 

Yup... The EM408... I'll be using that one along with a geohelix active GPS antenna. Modly turned me on to both.... The boy is a genius!

 

I already posted 2 pairs of posible pin assignment based on the schematic of cn(A) or i say cn(18)

 

Hi! if you could send me two of that module I will also send the item that you have requested, do we have a deal?

 

The only units I have are for my laptop... I have 18 other CF-28s... I don't need them as bad as a working GPS. Maybe in the future when I order more...

I don't think the other pin assignments you posted will work... But I don't have the manual with me to make sure...

 

ohlip; http://www.usglobalsat.com/p-47-em-408-sirf-iii.aspx

That's the modules we are using, and finally they have them in stock again direct from the company (So you can get them cheaper, $47 a piece).

This is the antenna; http://www.jdgastore.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=15

They are $32, but you have to call in your order.

Toughbook, thanks for the praise and whatnot. I've been doing what I can for interface work, but this week I kinda hit rock bottom with my personal life (had to put my dog to sleep), so other than an occasional visit on here, I've spent the whole time keeping myself occupied with non-thinking tasks.

So are you using a RIM board to do your interface with?

 

Modly,
Sorry to hear about your Dog - always sucks. Later

 

Modly... Yes... Using the RIM board. As I said... It looks like Panasonic used the same board regardless of what went in... GPS, RIM, CDPD, etc... They all look to use the same board.

Sorry for your loss. My wife and I had to do the same thing a few years back. Nothing can prepare you for that. It's like losing a family member. It will get better. Hope all else is well...

Rick

 

I'll have to be on the lookout for a board then. Don't suppose you've got a spare I can buy off you?

As the week has gone on, I've realised my dog had a great happy life, and the only way he'd have had it better is if I lived out in the country rather than the city, so I've felt a little better about it.

 

Modly... I think I have a spare... I'll look when I get back. I'll let you know on Sunday.

The one thing I need is a little clarification on the wording of the EM408 doc... It says that if the Rx pin won't be used that you must use 3.5V and a resistor to pull it high. Now... Does this mean that I need to find voltage somewhere and find a resistor to make it 3.5V at the pin or does it mean that I need to start with 3.5V and use a ????? resistor? The wording is not very clear. Do you have any idea?

 

Might find some useful info here about the EM408...

http://forum.sparkfun.com/viewtopic.php?t=6623

 

I just ordered two more Em408s from the site above. They are $20 cheaper than where I got mine... (Sparkfun)

 

We need to give it voltage, because it normally would have some entering in from the USB/Serial connection, and the resistor is to keep the voltage low (and stable). I'll have to find out the value of the resistor needed though.

Unfortunately, the great electronics store that was just around the corner.. went out of business (like all places in Michigan), so radioshack is my only bet. If I'm lucky, I've got a few spare resistors laying around from my MegaSquirt project, and maybe one will be right. I'll also have to pick up a new tip for my iron, because I accidentally knocked it off my bench and bad things happened to the tip...

 

Is the EM-408 the best one to use? Looks like a good price and they're discounting it further for thanksgiving so I might give it a try.

 

They are the best bang for the buck. They are easy to wire (5 pins), have an external antenna connector (very few others do), and support 20 channels.

Only one other module I found anywhere had the antenna connector, and it cost more than twice as much as what I found them originally priced at (Roughly $130).

 

Since i have dificulty in acquiring Em 408 and the globalsat retailer here in canada only entertain for bulk of order of at least 100pcs. I am now decided to instal usb type gps receiver on CN(A). Hacked the unit and instal it as the same as a module. I don't know yet if this usb type gps receiver has a provision for external antena coz i don't have this type as of to date. From my understanding it has a patch antena builtin inside, right? if it will be the case most posible it has antena connector inside.

Don't you know guys that CN(A) also has a provision for USB, Thats right i reviewed the schematic and it is clearly specified on it. It is more cheaper and also easy to acquire with the exemption of the geo helix antena

So for me, all problem solved for internal gps. All i need to do now is to gather all the necessary hardware to complete the long lasting project.

 

Does USGlobalSat not ship internationally?

If not, try http://www.starlite-intl.com/Detail.asp?pid=1885&Key=

They are based out of Michigan.

 

I was curious so I went through the checkout process (but did not place the order yet).. something must be wrong with their checkout page.. They show zero shipping charges no matter what shipping method you choose.. even UPS red! Assuming there is free shipping one way or another, they're still quite a bit cheaper than star lite. Even if I could go there and pick it up in person (and judging by their terms & conditions, that is doubtful) it would still be a few $$ more.

So, if ohlip or any other canadians would like me to buy one for them from usglobalsat, let me know. I'll probably be placing an order in a few days. (no great hurry though, as it looks like this product is NOT covered by their 20% discount sale

 

Hey guys... I am a newbie, but valuable info none the less... Here is the mod I decided to do on my CF-28 P3 1Ghz.... I am great with a dremel tool, as you cn see from the pic.... I also have the resources of working for a company that deals with super small circuit boards.... I plan on using an EM408 engine, and mounting it right to the top of the LCD as the pic shows.... You can see that the "TOUGHBOOK" badge fits perfect over the GPS antenna...Please feel free to let me know your opinions on my crazy ideas....
I removed images due to size... PM me if you want to see them or go to
http://www.geocities.com/copracr2000/panasonic/gps2811.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/copracr2000/panasonic/gps28111.jpg

 

It might work, but optimally you want the patch antenna to aim up.

I don't remember the specs on the modules, but they have a radius that they cover, so in theory you'll see less satellites. Of course it's 4am, and I'm about to head to bed, so I'll look it up in the manual tomorrow.

I like the thinking though, and I too love my dremel.

 

I like the concept.. maybe under the nameplate would be a good place to hide a flat wifi antenna?

 

Copracer... Can you please adjust the size of your pics? They distort the page and make for long upload times for some people.

Thanks!

I just got back in and I'm pooped from driving from upstate NY... I'll work on this tomorrow.

Modly... I think I may have a spare board but the ribbon cable is TU... I also have a ton of resisitors. I can send some to you if you like... PM me your address and I'll ship everything out.

(This is a good reason to save all your old electronics... Scavaging!)

 

Well... I tried hooking up everything and no go... When I have the time I'll go over what I did and you guys can comment on what you think.

 

That’s a bummer Toughbook sorry to hear it didn’t work, I would still like to hear about it if you get time.

 

I'm in the middle of building 3 different Toughbooks... When I get the chance I'll take pics and post what I have done so far. I know a few other things that I need to try.

One question though for those of you who may know... The stock Panasonic GPS required drivers to work correctly... Won't an aftermarket one?

 

Is that why we had to change the port config. in device manager to make it work? is there a driver that corrects that?

 

Toughbook, my USB antennas only require drivers for the USB conversion so it becomes a COM port... so as far as I know, we won't need one.

However, Globalsat drivers should do the trick if all else fails. (For our setup anyways).

And you're in good company... We are both buried in projects. I've now got a computer to fix for somebody on top of my transmission (with an aux. overdrive transmission added), rebuilding a Ford 9" rear end, fabricating a 4-link rear suspension, and rear disc brakes. That's all on top of my toughbook

 

Sheesh... Thanks for reminding me... I have to squeeze in a desktop reformat somewhere along the line this week. For a friend... You know how that goes.

 

Ok, I should have read this thread before asking about the panasonic internal cards
For the gps pin on cn18, it would make life more difficult trying to use it. Between cn18 and cn40 there are 2 standard serial ports connected internally in the same way as the serial plug on the back. No drivers should be needed as the gps signal is more or less just a stream of text kind of like the signal from a modem.
Easiest would probably be to get an old serial cable and attach the gps unit to the port on the back to get everything set up, then hack an internal card to get the same connections but on one of the internal serial ports. At least that way the gps and the software are known to be working so there is only the connections to debug.
I don't think I have any serial devices here, if I can dig up an old modem or something then I'll plug it into the internal port to be 100% sure it's not doing anything stupid.
The irda does act stupid on my cf-28 but I'm fairly sure that's the board f@#$#d and not braindead hardware, never use it so not gone into it much.
cheers

 

Oops, I should RTFM before poking at the keyboard. That thing MAY work directly on the rx/tx lines of a serial port and with a 3.3v supply but it would be a lot better with a serial interface chip (max232) in between (serial is +-12v).
The max232's are really easy to wire up and are only around 1$, there are other options to wire the gps up directly but it would be kind of hit and miss on the manufacturers specs to get them working.
As it happens I need to pick up a max232 today for another project, if anyone is interested I can do a schematic to put a max232 on a bit of stripboard with connections for a standard serial port on one end and the gps unit on the other.
cheers