Adding Aftermarket Internal GPS to the CF-28

Quick note on the gps_in pin, in service manual p71 it's going into a general purpose io that looks like it is only used for switching and identification. Its marked as an input so at a guess putting a 3.3 volt supply through a resistor onto it will cause the gps to show up in the bios.

 

Just a dumb question... If the resistor doesn't change the voltage... Why do we need to use it? I measured voltage before and after and got the same reading...

 

To keep the magic smoke in They don't really do anything on signal lines, more of a 'just in case' thing.
You got a measurement from the gps_in pin?
BTW, if it is for switching then its probably responsible for turning off the irda and turning on one of the internal serials

 

Just checked, the GPS_IN pin is a switch to turn on the GPS option in the bios so the internal serial port can be set up to use it. I got it back to front, the pin is at 3.3v when off and needs to be earthed to enable the GPS option/internal serial.
cheers

 

Ok... When I used the main board to hook up the GPS I did get an option in the BIOS... For a Radio Modem I think. I enabled it but still didn't get anything. I didn't use the resistor though. I didn't see where it would make any difference since the voltage reading was the same with and without.

I used the links I posted earlier to glean a little more info. I have been building laptops all this week so this weekend and next week I can spend some time experimenting with how to make it work. I'd really like to get it working without the main board. I don't really want to be reliant on having to have a main board to make it work all the time. There has to be a way. The main board just makes soldering a little easier.

 

That's the one with the 4 way dip switch to select modules? Switching 4 to on should get the GPS and associated serial port option to show up in the bios.
If not a direct connection from the GPS_IN pin (37 on cn18) to earth will do it. The 2 pins beside it (38 and 39) are both earths so a spot of solder between them would do the job.
Not related to this thread but so for I have found out wireless and bluetooth use the same frequency, if that right is it ok to wire them both into the same antenna? Also, is it possible to use the same antenna for GPS signals?
cheers

 

GPS will require a very different antenna. When I get home I'll get you a link, but google "Jim D Gray", and the first site that comes up has the ones we are using. They are $32 a piece, about 1.25" long total, and are active antennas.

I'm still working on how to mount them in though, and I'm ripping apart my 12" screen bezel and drilling it all over to find the best place. I'm not sure what the guy on eBay is doing to mount them, but it looks like he has some custom stuff involved. He uses the same antennas though.

 

That the ones with the hummer in the adds and the black lid? Oh, and the price
They look really well put together though. Don't know if Panasonic ever did an antenna on the right but it looks factory made and there is nothing under that side of the standard lid to mount on to.
Is the lid magnesium on them? They could be making up a heavy fiberglass lid, doubt it would be simple to get magnesium or even aluminium moulded.
Lashed together an antenna inside the plastic side cover of my one for now. Bit of an improvement but not much, going to have to make up one to go in the lid. Couldn't find out much on what other folks have done, was going to have a go at something retractable instead of screw on as I will only loose the damn thing. Any ideas or any know where to find some photos of others?
Cheers for the info on the GPS antenna. Think I'll stick a plug somewhere for that as I have always needed an external antenna to get a signal quickly with the one I have here. A lot of folks are mentioning getting a signal indoors, is that stretching the truth a bit? Only time mine ever got a signal indoors it was in something little more than a caravan.
cheers

 

I think it's possible to get signal indoors if you're near enough windows. Otherwise it's a stretch...

http://www.jdgastore.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=15

That's the antenna I'm gonna use.

As for the fiberglass idea, it's possible, but I'd hate to be the guy dropping it. I've done fiberglass work on cars before, and I know a good smack will split it.

 

One guy who bought one of the laptops the guy sells on ebay with the GPS bought a laptop from me. The guy lived close enough so I delivered it to him. He offered me the GPS laptop in partial trade for payment. I declined. I wish I hadn't now. But when I saw how it was put together I wasn't impressed at all. This one was the M34s he used to do. It was held together with glue and tape and looked like crap. Plus the screen was way too small for anything useful... Cool looking toy though. I wouldn't mind building one if I could get a deal on one. The ones he is doing now (CF-28s) look much better.

Anyway.. I am in the shop now working on the GPS. I am rewiring it with a few resistors in place this time. I'll post again when I turn it on and fool around with it.

 

In playing around with the GPS attached to the option board I have found that the only way to get GPS to show up in the BIOS is to have both switches 1 & 4 turned on. Any other combinations and it doesn't appear in the BIOS. However... The wireless modem, ring resume and Power Sync with PC also show up. I'm not sure if any combination of turning them off and on will have any effect of the laptop noticing the GPS... That is what I am working on now.

EDIT - DUH... I was using switch 1 & 4... You only need switch 4 turned on to get just the GPS to show in the BIOS...

Back to testing!

 

When you flip any of the switches (except 3), it simply grounds the circuit. Switches 1 & 2 run through pins 35 & 36 on the connector. Switch #3 while off runs through pins 5 & 6, which are grounds. I'm working on where it runs while on.

My "decryption" of the CN-18.jpg diagram is that switches 1 & 2 are for the modem to be shown in the BIOS, depending on which you've got (one is probably for 802.11, the other is cell wireless, or so I'm assuming).

#3 is still a mystery though.

Edit; I've found #3 going through a few various jumpers on the bottom, but nothing going to the CN-18. I've noticed empty spots for a connector on the bottom (CN-103, CN-102) of the GPS card, which I'm curious about. Switch #3 might have something to do with that.

Pin #27 or #28 (Having trouble figuring out which) runs to pin #1 of the raised card on the GPS module. On the diagram, those pins are listed as CFC_SIN2, or CFC_SOUT2.

Edit again; Doing more pondering and looking, if we run an aftermarket board, here is my primary pinout ideas;
Pin #27 - GPS Tx
Pin #28 - GPS Rx
Pin #37 - Ground through resistor
Pin #38/39/46/47 (Use one or all, unsure yet) - GPS Ground

I did however fry my mule board (just a 600, no big deal), so I can't figure out which pins provide voltage, and I lost my old notes on the CN-18 connector.

 

so the smoke comes out of your garage? hehehe!!, Just fine, when i'm doin something like that, i always have an spare.Just in case.

 

Oh, this was my spare board, so I'm not worried. I've got my two fully assembled 28s intact with no harm, and another board (800) on the shelf.

I shorted something out though, and it went bye bye
The arc was cool though.

 

On the yahoo group we have been trying to get some info on the dip switch. Nothing certain yet but switch 2 may turn on power to the wireless options and switch 3 divert it. Will have a poke at it later now I know they are all earth switching as I'm happier sticking wires in them
Another thing found out from the modem datasheets was one of them is using standard modem serial communication but at 0 to 3.3 volts (or 5? it may also have been mentioned here, memory not the best) which by a happy coincidence is what is needed for the serial GPS units you have.
It could be the board for the modem has a serial interface for +-12v but it was mentioned earlier that a card exists with both the rim and sb300 modules, if that's true then one of them has to use the MDM lines from cn18.
Trouble is the MDM lines go into a programable chip so they could do any damn thing, a couple of them look like id lines so it may be locked up until it gets what it wants from them. Also, no idea how the card would show up in the system, could be it shows up as a 'serial port' with a modem on it. In that case it wouldn't be a real serial port but it should still be usable by the gps software.
Will be back on later after poking at the pins, need to get it done as I'm also looking for a switchable power line in there.
Have to go and look at laptops and drink beer now. Life is so hard sometimes...
cheers

 

Modly, I saved your notes in a Word Doc... Hope this is what you are looking for...

________________________________________________________

Some of the pinout I'm assuming based on a diagram on the 600MHz board, But here is what I've got (Pins are labeled 1 - 13, 1 being closest to the handle, 13 closest to the GPS connector).

Pin #4 is 3.3v (The one pin I can assure you is 100% correct)
Pin #6 is Rx Data (Or pin #11, see note)
Pin #9 is Tx Data
Pin #13 is signal ground (Not sure if this will work as a voltage ground or not, it does not provide continuity to the motherboard ground... I'm looking into this part). If it does not provide a ground, we have a few options, including running a ground wire to a screw on the motherboard (Easy solution).


Rx Note; The RX pin may be mirrored (Tx should be right in either direction), but it does not indicate which is proper orrientation. Just incase, I provided both possible pins.

As for antennas and which module, I'm still at a loss for the best to use. I found a module by NavSync that I really like, but it is far too costly to use for our project. I think the GlobalSat and eTek modules are the best for the budget.

Sorry to hear you smoked the board. That is what I have been trying to avoid!

The multi unit pcb ought to be there in a few days!

 

I finally got a chance to get back to my GPS project and I think it might be working but I can’t find any drivers for the GlobalSat EM-408 and my computer seems to want one.
So I’m having the same problems that I was having with the stock module thinking it’s a mouse or some type of pointing device. I just replaced the original module with the EM-408 on the stock GPS board. Any suggestions?
Thanks.
Jim

 

Caddy.... It's been suggested that we don't need a driver for the EM408... I doubt that the stock Panny driver would work anyway.

 

Toughbook, I fried the board when I dropped my probes on it while sipping my beer. It was an honest mistake, but it happens

Caddy, are you connecting to it via USB? If so, that might be the problem.
If so, use this driver; http://www.usglobalsat.com/download/57/win_usb_driver_installer.exe

If you're going through serial, I don't see any drivers that exist for it (Because technically it shouldn't need them going through serial on any device). The panasonic GPS filter is to help decode, but GPS still won't register in your hardware devices with it installed.

Edit; also, when you do get it configured, set it to something like COM 7. When it's on COM 4 it'll have that issue that you're having, where it thinks it's a mouse.

Edit again; I just re-read your post, and you're using the new module on the original board, and not through USB.
When you use this utility; http://www.usglobalsat.com/downloads/GPSinfo.zip , does it show up as having GPS in one of the COM ports?

 

Toughbook, the board just came, and I'm giving it a lookover and I notice it has 3 extra connectors. Fancy stuff. I'll start going over it in a moment to figure more things out.

Caddy, Wanna take a few pictures of how you wired yours in, and the error that it gives you (or whatever it is that suggests that you need a driver), and I'll see if I can think of any solution for you.

 

Modly... WOW... That was quick! I figured you'd get it next week. Glad youhave it... Now... Get us some GPS!

So.... Com 7??? It was weird... There were times that Com1 and also Com6 & Com7 would show up in WinFast. (What I'm using to check to see if the GPS works) I don't think I even tried it because Com1 was the only one that had "Communications Port" labeled beside it. Would the GPS enable that beside a Com Port if it had been installed correctly?

I have a feeling we're going to make a breakthrough this weekend! heh heh heh

 

ToughBook

Your right the Panasonic GPS driver dint work and when you uninstall them and reboot it goes through the found new hardware Wizard and wants a driver. The only one that it will accept is the touch pad driver or some other pointing device?

Modly
Sorry to hear about the little incident with you beer I hope you didn’t spill much!
Just tried the scan and nothing detected but my hardware wizard is still very unhappy about not having a driver.
It shows in the Bois as GPS (AUTO) I don’t know if I need to change this and was hoping some of you would have some suggestions..

Jim

 

Caddy... Are you using the EM408? Also... Try to look for conflicts on Com Ports...

EDIT - Mine showed in BIOS also but didn't ask for driver.. You might try enabling all and chosing your own IRQs...

Can you post pics of your hook-up?

 

I guess try out that USB driver for the hell of it that I linked.

I've got no clue otherwise though because when I go through serial with my permanent mounted GPS in my cop car, it doesn't suggest a new device is there. I'll have to look into that.

 

Ok this is the best I can do for a picture for now until my daughter comes home with her camera.
Hope this helps.

Jim

 

Cadillac... You are brilliant!!!!! I just added to your rep for that one! Pin one on your diagram is hooked up straight into pin 37 on the GPS... Now I see more clearly what you were talking about this whole time. DUH! I'll unhook the crap I have hooked up (Which is roughly similar to what you have) and give it a try! I just need to hang a few more X-Mas decorations for my wife and I'll get to work!

Awesome... Just awesome...

EDIT - Looks like I have been gargling...

 

Did you add any resistors in there anywhere?

 

Hello all, just wanted to introduce myself :GEEK: and say what a joy it's been keeping track of the wonderful job you all do keeping us updated with all the hacks, info, etc...
I've been reading this forum for months and finally decided to join. I'm also currently customizing one of my cf28 so hopefully shortly after the holidays i'll have pix of the finish product.

 

Scared1... Welcome to the forum! You picked the right place... This is definitely one mod crazy group! If it can be done... We'll get it done!

There are a ton of posts around here... Help yourself and feel free to post any questions. Just remember... The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask!

 

Just checked the pins, only basic voltages for now but have the switching figured out. 35, 36 and 37 all switch on the internal serial port. 35 and 36 give the wireless modem option and 37 for the gps. all of them are earthed to enable.
All of them come in through the serial port, there may be options and switches on the MDM lines but the serial does all the communications. Looks like that RIM+SB300 board uses cn40 if it needs control as well as data lines.
Both of the modem options switch on 3.3v to pins 13 (MDCOC_ON) and 15 (MDM_PWRON), these pins are 0v otherwise.
Nothing extra shows up in the system for control software, may do something with drivers but the inputs on their own just enable the port.
With everything coming through the serial port there will only be extra devices found as windows probes the port (usb and pcmcia say 'here I am, use me').
The circuit for getting serial coms from a logic device (0>3.3 or 0>5v) is tricky, that's why the max232's are so popular. If you can tap into the tx and rx lines where they come out from the modem card (the pcmcia bit) it will do the same job as there will have to be a serial interface on that board for the card to work.

Incomplete pin info:

1 m-micin 0v
2 gnd 0v
3 phone3 0v
4 gnd 0v
5 va3 3.3v switched
6 va3 3.3v switched
7 vc3 3.3v always on
8 vc3 3.3v always on
9 gnd 0v
10 gnd 0v
11 susb 3.3v
12 mdmsw 3.3v
13 mdcoc-on 0v 3.3v with modem jumper
14 vm1cut 16v kills unit. pull battery to reset
15 mdm-pwron 0v 3.3v with modem jumper
16 mdm-reset 0v
17 mdmpw-ack 0v
18 riwm 0v
19 cfg-dcd1 4.4v no serial lines tested when port enabled
20 cfg-dsa1 4.4v
21 cfg-cts1 4.4v
22 cfg-ri1 4.4v
23 cfg-sin1 0v
24 cfg-sout1 0v
25 cfg-rts1 0v
26 cfg-dtr1 0v
27 cfg-sin2 0v
28 cfg-sout2 0v
29 bt-usb+ 0v
30 bt-usb- 0v
31 bt-reset 0v
32 bt-dtch 0v
33 bt-wkup 0v
34 mdm-boot 0v
35 mdmid0 3.3v modem+serial+pwr conf option. pull low
36 mdmid1 3.3v modem+serial+pwr conf option. pull low
37 gps-in 3.3v gps+serial option. pull low
38 gnd 0v
39 gnd 0v
40 vc5 5v switched
41 vc5 5v switched
42 va5 5v always on
43 va5 5v always on
44 va5 5v always on
45 va5 5v always on
46 gnd 0v
47 gnd 0v
48 vm1 16v
49 vm1 16v
50 vm1 16v

Sorry about the length of the post. If anyone want anything tried on the pins let me know. I'll be hooking up something to the serial soon to give it a try.
cheers

 

Okay... I'm at a loss again. I thought we were tying the GPS IN to pin 37.. I made the mistake of tracing it to pin 27. (No wonder it wouldn't work.) However... After tracing pin 37... The only place I see it going is to the switch, the other side of which just goes to ground? Wouldn't we be better off just wiring the GPS IN to the spot before the switch? What am I missing here?

 

Okay... I followed Cadillac's picture to a tee except that I wired the Tx directly to the #4 switch... Keep your fingers crossed...

EDIT - No dice... I'm assuming that I should see data flow even though I'm down in the shop and have no chance of tracking a satellite... Yes?

 

Ah did I forget to mention I’m just a Hill Billy with a soldering iron and please don’t attempt what you see here.
I still can’t get past my driver issue.

Please let us know how you do.

Jim

 

I did the exact same wiring, and got nothing.

I'm still tampering though.

 

I'm still scratching my head because it sems that both sides of the switch are grounded. I'm wondering if maybe my last attempts fried my GPS engine. I have two more but don't want to hook them up until I get this figured out for sure. :confused2:

Back to the drawing board!

 

So when you reboot are you getting the found new hardware looking for drivers not happy with any options I give you thing? Wizard….
Or is this just my little Hell?

 

Cadillac, I have kind of lost track on who has what. Your using a cf-28? If not it could be that using the internal serial is pushing the touchscreen to another port. Just a thought with it wanting a mouse driver, some models touchscreens use serial.
cheers

 

Cadillac, hooked up as you've got yours, it does not pop up a hardware wizard or even show up as GPS. Once you get a photo, I'll confirm I'm doing the same thing as you.

 

Thanks Stan.
Yes I am using a CF-28 with touch screen.
When I first tried I got nothing just like the others but I applied all the tricks to try to get the stock GPS unit working like the reg edit skipenum.
After I removed all the changes I made for the old unit including the drivers I started to get this found new hardware and need drivers pain in my “you know what” and I cant seem to get past this to see if it’s working.
If you lived closer I would just send you a module and you could join us.

Ok Modly
This is the photo let me know if this is a help or I will try again.
Jim

 

Lol, long drive to France Strange its showing up as a mouse though.
Don't know if minicom exists on windows but that or something like it would show you each byte of data on the com ports (it's like a 1970's version of messenger, doesn't mess around with protocols just puts what it finds on the screen).
I'm going to take the final desperate step and (god save us) read the manuals. I think I can figure out a pinout between the 30 way cable and the gps units everyone is using. It may get things clear in my head at least (bit slow sometimes, and it is Saturday..)
I think it would make sense to only have switch 4 on at the dip switch. Could be windows is looking for a driver due to a signal from the modem lines on the daughter board.
cheers

 

Ok I got it working and I’m an Idiot.:confused2:
Thanks Stan I’ll tell you about it tomorrow.
Jim

 

Have an idea for the pinout for either of the wireless options, which of the wireless cards are you trying? The sb300 should be linked with a 30 way ribbon and the rim with a 22 way according to their manuals, is that right?
Also, does anyone have the datasheet for the standard panasonic gps?
So far the logic output on both the wireless cards is just right for the em408 module, the 3.3v input is a problem though. It will (EDIT) NOT need to be pulled from pin 40 and/or 41.<5v lines
It will need to be pulled off pins 5 and/or 6 (3.3v switched) of cn18, either wherever they appear on the daughterboard or directly at the connector.
The rx and tx lines can be pulled off the cable to the wireless module for either type (rt>rx & tx>tx).
Earths are everywhere on the damn thing (as the signal meter for my wifi keeps reminding me )
All the voltages and logic should be 100% at that. By the looks of it the sb300 would be the better card to try it with as its communications are closer to a normal modem.
No idea for retrofitting the standard gps. If the tx and rx pins for the modems are shared with the gps then it would just need to be fed 3.3v as there is a good chance the standard gps is 5v.
EDIT sorry about the typo.

 

I’ll give you a list of things I did tomorrow.
Now I’m tired and I’m going to drink a beer but I’ll post this pic first.
Jim

 

Looks a funny color on my 12" screen buts its a pretty picture non the less. Nice one

 

Sweet! I've gotta try a few things tonight still, but I'm now cleaning the flux off the board, and am letting it dry. I hope it works when I fire it up.

Edit; I fired fired it up after switching my wires, and I've got a receiver.

However, it's cold and snowing out there right now... so I'm not gonna test it just yet.

So now that it receives a signal, I'm gonna focus on the antenna portion. Mounting is first, then wiring...

Edit again; figured I should at least post my working pinout;
Pin #1 (Enable/Disable) - Pin 5
Pin #2 (Ground) - Pin 3
Pin #3 (GPS Rx) - Pin 2
Pin #4 (GPS Tx) - Pin 1
Pin #5 (+3.3v) - Pin 7

 

My hookup is exactly the same as Cadillac's except I have line 4 from the EM408 going to pin 4 of the switch.. BEFORE the switch.

EDIT - Too much Jack Daniels.. Just went back and read everything 3 times... Wired it like Modly.. Without the resistors... Giving it a try

 

You're right.. I'm tired too.. But I'm pissed. I've wired mine exactly like Modly's but no joy!

I guess I'll sleep on it.

Is it because I'm in my shop and need a clear view?

 

The antenna mounting part is harder. I'm trying to dremel my screwed up 12" screen bezel out to fit, and it's gonna be extremely tight.

I'd still like to figure out what the one guy on eBay did for the antenna, because the only way I see that working is making a custom rubber corner piece, and just hacking out a chunk of magnesium.

Edit; Toughbook, I tried taking a photo of mine, but my camera is not doing so well at closeup shots... it is making it blurry as hell.

I'll borrow a camera tomorrow to snap a photo. In the mean time, when you wake up, power it up and verify you've got 3.3v on pin 7. I had looked up some info about GPS receivers, and if they don't have the right voltage, they won't work.

Also, grab the GPSInfo utility from GlobalSat, and run a scan. Just incase it's setup for a different COM port than you think it's on.

 

Good stuff Modly. So the thing is more or less pin for pin compatible with the original unit? And the wireless boards have the gps mounting there and ready to use? Now that is good news, especially considering the price of original gps units. Nice one Cadillac.
Something I was shown many years ago for bike control levers may come in useful on the lid. Bending cast magnesium or aluminium needs heat but heating magnesium can get 'interesting' pretty fast The soot from a match or lighter (or acetylene) breaks down at a safe temperature for both metals. Soot up the piece before heating it and when it goes from black to bare metal its ready to bend.
It would be a bit extreme and a toughbook lid will suck the heat out fast but it might do as a last resort if just a couple of mil are needed.
Great to hear thing have worked out.

 

Modly you are correct I needed to switch Pins 1 and 5 on the EM-408 module or 7 and 5 on the board. I got in a hurry and never confirmed voltage after soldering and just assumed voltage stayed the same but I was getting a voltage drop across pin 5 the one I was using for power in so after switching and using pin 5 for enable/disable and pin 7 for power the module was working and happy. Confirmed voltage 3.3 on pin 5 and 7 after hooking the module back up. I made a new chart to reflect this change and please disregard all my past ramblings. Also I had to remove both com ports in my hardware manager and reboot before it would see the new module.
Now for the bad news I was trying to confirm the module was sending NEMA data and hit the wrong button and now I’m getting a software error and can’t change back. Use caution when using Sirfdemo it can ruin your night in a hurry. I will call GlobalSat on Monday and see if they can help me out.
I have a couple of good ideas for mounting an antenna but wont be able to work on this again for awhile so I will be watching to see what you guys come up with.
On a side note GlobalSat is coming out with a new module “ET318-02” and IMHO this would make a good module for us as it has no built in antenna and a newer chipset.
I may also try a “ET-333’ for similar reasons.
Good Luck .
Jim