Lenovo Thinkpad -> Panasonic Toughbook

Hello,

///////////////*Thinkpad part
About 5 years ago, I tried Lenovo E530 and absolutely loved its reliability. From then on, I bought used T400, T410, T420 and T430.

T400 and T410 died when I fell of my bicycle and the screen snapped in half, SSD survived. Two T420 still sits at home, one acting as a linux firewall/server, and one acting as my main laptop(it was about to be de-commissioned).

Now T430... I think I bought a defective one, because it seems to crash constantly. Worst part of it all was that the main T420 had to be left behind due to limit on luggage at the airport on the trip to Switzerland, which is where I am now.

In the midst of confusion I found and bought a CF-19 Mk 6:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/PANASONIC-TOUGHBOOK-CF-19-CF-191HYAX1M-MK6-I5-3320M-2-6GHZ-4GB-500GB-7PRO-TOUCH/262844456845?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

I can't wait to get my fingers on it. I also ordered a better T430 with 1 year warranty from the seller on e-bay.
*///////////////////////////

Now, I really like Thinkpads, and from what I've read CF19 will be a hell of a downgrade in terms of comfort in usage, considering the keyboard and weight, which I'm not too worried about, because I will always carry CF19 as the "super backup".

The question is, can this super-backup be turned as good as my T420/dying T430 configuration?

My T420 has this:
Optical bay used for SSD(W7), mSATA SSD(data and shared) in WWAN slot, SSD in main slot(Linux), 8gb RAM
T430 has Optical by used for HDD(data and shared), mSATA SSD holding W7Pro, main SSD holding Linux, 12gb RAM.

The incoming T430 should be able to do "swap-and-go" on both Windows and Linux after a fair bit of research and previous experiences.

I also do a "hard" dual boot, meaning I do not use GRUB boot manager to sort through the OS. Linux doesn't know about W7, W7 doesn't know about Linux, this way, I can take out an entire OS and system operates without any issues(If you do "soft" dual boot and remove a drive with an OS, the grub will crash on you).

My search has found these CF-191HYAX1M:
-stated to be able to hold up to 8gb ram by manufacturer, but some people say, it can hold up much more(I will have 2 spare 8gb sticks after I make it home).
-the WWAN card on this model cannot be reconfigured for mSATA.
-I am confined to one drive per caddy, and caddy is unattractively expensive(I am looking into CF18 caddy, still unattractive).

My absolute requirements are:
1. 8GB or more RAM.
2. Linux and W7 must both exist.

There are few approaches I may make:
1. Buy a large SSD, and partition and soft-dual boot
2. Looking into those dual-msata to sata 2.5 enclosures(I am yet to hear back from them whether if BIOS picks them up separately) and use one larger msata to be partitioned off as data and w7.
3. Buy multiple Caddy, and use a large (low profile) flash or SD drive as data storage.

Questions for those who have CF-191HYAX1M, or know about them.
1. Do you have only one HDD or one SSD in your system, has there been successful attempts at having more than one?
2. The keyboard, do you get used to it?
3. Does it play nice with OpenSUSE KDE?
4. Does it play nice with W10?
5. I read about something about W7 and BIOS issues, what exactly is that?
6. Heating issues?
7. Where can I get the clamps/hooks so I can put custom shoulder strap for it?
8. How much RAM do you have? Does this model have 1 or 2 slots? Does it support over 8gb?
9. The "drop-proof", does it still damage the chassis if you dropped it from 1m height?
10. Where the HECK can I find a service manual or the proper driver package?
With lenovo, first google search gives me a pdf of how to disassemble T430 to screws and boards, with CF-191HYAX1M, no luckyet.
11. Headphone, is it necessary to have a divider for a headset with just 1 jack? I would be on many skype and vidyo conferences.

I've used these things while in the military, but I never abused or thought of owning one(and it was CF-29).

Thanks.

 

You would be better off with a CF-52, large screen, very tough and with the core i5 and an SSD it is the perfect combo of fast and reliable.

 

The purchase for CF-19 has already been made.

I am asking questions about the CF-19, not about what to buy

 

One jack for headsets, 1 meter drop is nothing to a CF-19. Drivers are available at Panasonic toughbook support. Best bet, buy the restore disc as the 19 is fussy on driver order loading. 18 caddy will not fit the 19, ide vs sata.

 

Well these sound so far so good. My Lenovo T400 was damaged from dropping it from below waist level, and it croaked from me falling off a bicycle crash.

 

I sell toughbooks locally and my demo is the drop it, then stand on it. I weigh 125 kilos.

 

Well, I do often go on nice hikes, with a telescope and I am most skeptical about damaging the laptop, I guess I can externally carry it now.

Speaking of which, would you happened to have answers to some of my other questions? One thing most related is clamps/screws for a shoulder strap.

 

You can find all the drivers here.... http://business.panasonic.com/support-computerstablets-driverdownloads

 

CF 19 does not have an optical bay.
A USB optical drive is needed and it needs to be a Panasonic brand optical drive.
No room for a second drive of any kind.
No MSATA at all on a CF19
Dual boot or two separate caddies are the only solutions for two OS's
Keyboard is up to you. What I adjust to, you may not. We can't answer that.
W7 issues are early models not yours.
Clamps--try Heartlands USA. That's the official Panasonic distributor.
Dropping depends upon WHAT you drop it on. Pillows--not much damage..Concrete may scratch and lightly crack plastic parts.
All four of my CF19 mk6's have a microphone and headphone port. Don't understand what the issue is with that.
I have never had heat issues. It is designed for high heat.
W10 depends upon how it is installed.

You will never get a CF 19 to run like a Thinkpad T420. A T420 is a standard laptop that has performance as a priority.
CF 19's are fully rugged military laptops with RUGGEDNESS as the priority. Performance is not a priority.
Panasonic's BIOS can be very picky about any oddball non Panasonic hardware. Special SATA drive conversions are hit and miss. This is done by Panasonic on purpose. It is to preserve reliability. Reliability in 130 plus degree desert IS a priority for a CF19.


Service manual..easy...Be polite and show respect to regular members in this forum. Show respect for our love of Toughbooks and our knowledge.
We are mostly an "older" group of guys and don't respond well to arrogance or people acting entitled.
The respect is required to me because I spend many HOURS and sometimes DAYS searching for these manuals. They are not easily available as you have found.
I am old enough that I can refuse to help anyone that I don't feel appreciates the work we have done.

Read what you wrote there. Is this really they best way to ask for my help?
Toughbooks are a "hell of a downgrade" to a Thinkpad? No they are just designed for a different purpose.
My opinion is a CF19 is already better than a Thinkpad. You will NEVER be happy with a fully rugged Toughbook if you keep comparing it to the Thinkpad.
A military Hummer will never be as comfortable or as fast as a Lincoln. It's not supposed to be.

 

*perceptions can be deceiving*
insert something about "contempt prior to investigation" here ---> X

i own (2) T400 and another smaller "T" ... have worked on several of them .
they are a bit "dim" for daylight or high ambient light viewing .
i swapped out the ccfl backlight in a T400 ... it did not help .
you will not have this problem with a '19 !

i understand about grub and dual boot systems ... they can be a PITA and that is why i do not use dual boot systems (anymore) .
a complete install of two OSes on a partitioned drive will work (no grubbing ... go into bios on boot or use the boot device select function) .
the absolute best way is to have two drives in two caddies ... with a '19 it is a very simple matter to open the hdd/ssd caddy door and swap them out , however , this is not so good for *sharing* files between OSes .
a '19 with a ssd and 8 gigs of ram will run about as well as a T410 ... maybe better .
unless you do a bunch of video editing/rendering , anymore than 8 gigs of ram is a waste of money .

audio jack ...
i believe you are talking about a 3 conductor (TRS) mini plug versus a 4 conductor (TRRS) mini plug . as an example this is most apparent with *apple* products (-cough cough gag- as the testosterone drains from your body) .
the '19 uses a TRS jack for the headphone and likewise for the mic ... you will need a *splitter/adapter* to use a TRRS type plug with the jacks on a '19 .
also , the mic jack on a '19 has a constant B+ on it ... no provision for turning off what is commonly known as "phantom power" (this is true with most comps) .

drivers ...
as mentioned , the drivers needed are available from the panasonic site .
these have to be installed in a specific order ... if not it causes real headaches .
using drivers other than those written by panasonic can cause problems .
there are only a few instances where drivers from the manufacturer (say ethernet drivers) can be used .
windows updates can (and will) install *crap drivers* ... turn off the automatic updates and "pick-n-choose" what goes into the '19 .
the best/easiest way to load a system on any toughbook is to use (as mentioned) a recovery/restore disk from some source (not just heartlands) .
these have the correct OS and the drivers specific to the model of machine (be sure to get the correct MK#) .
i have loaded systems from scratch ... it is not the same as with other comps ... uuuggghhh .

linux flavor compatibility ...
if you look at a couple of threads here , you will find that certain versions of 'nix do not play nice with these machines .
one of the most common and widely used 'nix variants is "mint 18.xx or 19.xx" ... and it has audio problems (among others) ...
there is a fix for it ... and as the toughbooks are not widely used , finding information about fixes is more difficult than with common comps .

W10 ...
you are on your own with W10 ... some people like it , some don't .
again , a restore disk is your best option here .
trying to pick out the correct drivers at the panasonic site will be a pain .
i am not quite sure of this ... i think there is some kind of problem when using a dl version from MS ... one of the other guys might be able to clarify this .
W10 , in my opinion , is way too picky about hardware security and similar things ... and the toughbooks are picky about (some) hardware ... not a good combination ... W10 is too invasive and if it was a person i would say that it is an "ultra paranoid control freak" .


the keyboard ...
i have no problems using the keyboard on my '19 and then switching to a "regular" keyboard ...
like most other things , practice and familiarity go a long way toward ease of use .

wwan sata ...
i think that shawn has just looked at an adapter of some kind ... might not be related .

again , i do not see a performance issue between the "T" and a '19 .
the '19 you ordered has a 2.6GHz i5 cpu in it :
https://ark.intel.com/products/64896/Intel-Core-i5-3320M-Processor-3M-Cache-up-to-3_30-GHz
not exactly a slouch processor .
it all depends on how fast and extensive the stuff is that your want to run .
i run my '19 with a gps program in an airplane doing about 200 MPH ... it "keeps up" nicely with a view relative to about 3000 feet .

 

Shawn, I apologize for coming off disrespectful. I just wanted to mention to you what exactly the purpose of my CF19 will be. It will be a machine that will be used in fields, and as secondary if something goes wrong with my primary.

I meant the downgrade in terms of performance and office-environment protability, since I am spoiled by the nice keyboard layout for T420(even T430 layout drives me nuts sometimes). Also in retrospect, my new incoming T430 has i7 quad core, with 16gb ram and will have the 2ssd+hdd from my dying HDD.

What I meant by dropping is, dropping the toughbook on the ground, say... hardwood floor at home, or a piece of rock while climbing.

Audio and Mic Jack. I am used to a single microphone-headphone jack, that only has one plug, and I read that at least Mk3 has 2 separate jack.

CWB32, would you run over this:

because if I can do that, I can make a third partition just for data for sharing files, and it would be 100% what I am looking for.

Also, in terms of RAM, are you saying that the Mk6 that I ordered has 2 slots? If so, I will have 2 of 8gb sticks free after my current T430 is scavenged.

Lastly, about the optical drive that is alarming!
I cannot boot from a Lenovo USB optical drive?!

 

yep ... you can partition a big drive and then load the OSes on those partitions (dedicating the third partition to data) .
on boot , you can either go into bios and change the boot device (partition) or there is a "which device do you want to boot from" (i forget offhand what the key press during boot is for this) ... it is a one-time select per boot .

there are two ram slots on the '19 motherboard ... as per my outline previous , "normal" users will not really benefit from anything over 8 gigs of ram (4 gigs per stick) .
look at the specs of that processor/buss and also the design of the motherboard ... you may not be able to address over 8 gigs as a design limitation .
(wasn't there someone here who tried more than 8 gigs on one of these ?)

to be honest , while the lcd is ok ... it was not designed for "critical" and/or "video rendering" use ... this requires a decent monitor that you will just not find in a laptop .
in otherwords , if i tried to use my '19 to do color correction (etc) on a large photo file (think photoslop) would i trust what i see on the screen ?... no , i would not .
the dynamic range , color tracking , contrast , gamma and a few other things are just not there ... it was not designed to do this type of work .
for quick and dirty work ... say taking a photo , cropping out the little kid on the side of the picture that is picking his nose , and then shipping the resultant file to your boss for the editing department to deal with ... yes , it is good enough for that and to see that your exposure is workable and not a complete pile of crap .

i covered the audio jacks in my post ...
while the audio in the machine itself is mono (only one speaker) , the headphone jack/processing is true stereo ... the mic jack is mono .

external optical drives ...
there are some drives that do not want to work with the panasonic machines , i believe they have to be set as a "master" .
also , do not rely on the usb to provide power to run a drive ... use one with it's own power supply .
i have used a few different types of optical drives with my '19 (and others ... see my signature) .
one of the best i have found is to use a decent drive that you would normally use in a desktop or *box* along with a sata to usb adapter hooked to it (with it's own power supply) .
i have used this to load systems on different machines .
i really cannot justify one of those fancy cd/dvd burners that has a nice case and usb output ... just make sure that the drive can write/read multi-layered disks .
i have a 25 USD LG optical drive set up almost permanently next to my main windows box ... i get the power to run it from said box .
you can try your lenovo drive ... it will either work or it won't .

 

Thank you CWB32, I may ask more detailed question on partitioning and setting up individual OS on each. I will probably need to have su-partition dedicated to boot for both OS's. I am currently in process of making a deal who is offering a dell 800gb ssd for 200Cdn.

So, are you saying that BIOS can boot from separate partitions, instead of just the drives? I've never experienced that personally, but if that works, the toughbook might as well be a primary laptop for me, but I would always carry a T430 even for emergency backup. I am away at CERN and it's absolutely not fun leaving my reliable T420 at my home in Canada(airlines told me to lose 5kg and T430 had more important data on it).

I should mention that I am a physics student. Video rendering is not the number 1 priority, however Intel 4000 is the absolute minimum I will go, as Intel 3000 on T420 is not up to the task sometimes when I put high resolution pictures on some of the presentation slides.

So CF19 has a speaker of its own? That I did not know.

May I ask you to point me in the right direction in terms of setting different OS's on a single drive without grub by any chance? This will be absolutely useful even for my future laptop projects.

 

You are flirting with danger anytime you dual boot anything with Windows......eventually Windows will update and overwrite your boot loader. (that's the simple way of saying it) Yes, children there are ways around it, I said the simple way....(children refers to those jumping up and down yelling "that's not true")
I have a triple boot right here that requires a separate boot disk......hmmmmm hey there's an idea, if you boot from a usb and the usb assigns the working OS...IOW the bootloader is on the USB........mind drifts off.....

IF I was making another dual boot.....I would:
1. Load/install/update the Windows product.
2. Turn off automatic updates....possibly even disable WLAN /WWAN in the windows product.
3. Load the Linux product and let it write the partitions and the grub menu.
4. Back-up the completed system to bootable USB.
5. Save future critical documents to another media....like SDHC.
6. Relax and enjoy.

Buy another caddy and hdd to be safer.

BTW...Matt at Proton (Chicago) has d-rings and straps.

 

Sheepman, is there a way around it without having the grub menu? Basically if everything is set up well, I want it to boot Linux without any interruptions or countdown, and boot from windows if and only if I interrupt it. I have attempted this while grub menu is alive, but funny thing, it superseded my windows boot, and things didn't work the way I want it to.

 

yeppers ...
mixing windows and *something else* is like dating sisters that are either twins or a year apart in age ...
sooner or later , there will be trouble .
just ask the guy who has been there and done that .


"So, are you saying that BIOS can boot from separate partitions, instead of just the drives?"
hmmm ...
as i see it , the bios does not care if you have one drive or a dozen ... you tell the bios which drive to boot from by setting a default or manually select one .

more on the multi partition setup ...
if you partition the drive into three chunks , label them C/E/F (did you ever notice there is no "D" drive ?)
and now the tricky/PITA part ... drop in the recovery disk (or if you have masochistic tendencies a W7 professional disk (like i said , i do not care for W10) and tell it to load on the "C" partition , you will not be making a recovery partition .
once that is done , then load linux on the "E" partition .
the F partition is self explanatory , however , the formatting of the 'nix partition should be NTSF (or however it is spelled) ... this is to ensure the best compatibility between the two OSes when loading data files onto the the third partition (that is also formatted the same) .
you don't have to absolutely have to use the windows formatting style ... i have no problems swapping files between the two OSes .
(@sheepman ... isn't there a format in 'nix that is compatible with NTSF ?)
when you boot the machine you can push a "Fx" or "del" or whatever the key is to get it to boot into the bios or the "select alternate boot device" .
it would be easiest to use the "alternate boot device" instead of going all the way into the bios .
(i do know that on certain machines that the alternate boot device is/can be selected from within the bios ) .
select the partition/drive letter and away you go .
by doing it this way , the OSes should not know that the other one exists .
mind you , this is not the greatest way to do this but any multi-boot system is going to have a few compromises .

i really do not recommend any form of multi-boot and believe that individual drives are the safest and best bet .
i had in mind to use an electronic switch IC (say a CD4066) to use as a DPDT to switch the data lines on a couple of ssd .
this would eliminate the need for two carriers as both drives will fit into one carrier .
a small switch mounted *somewhere* would allow selecting the desired drive/OS .
the caveat to this is that when a drive is not selected , it is effectively remove from the machine ... no data sharing .
in this case , an external usb drive can be used commonly between the two OSes .
(although ... is there room in the carrier for a third drive that can be internally hard-wired to a usb port ?)

i believe that there is a way to set the precedence of the 'nix/windows boot ... as well as the timeout .
again , you will be using the grub ...
there may be a way around this by setting the default drive in bios (aka : first boot device) .
it should then boot into 'nix unless you select the "boot from this device menu" .

you do realize that pictures from cern are requested/required to be posted here .
(and none of those wimp(y) (ooohhh a pun) little files)
so , what are you going to be doing there ?

 

CWB32, I do not have less than 2MB pictures.

I am part of ATLAS collaboration, starting my authorship qualification, doing some physics analysis on Higgs Production and participating in an irradiation project of a next generation upgrade sensors. With my T430 failing once a day(as seen in the picture, I am desperately trying to reapply thermal paste hoping that it's the cause[someone put wayy too much on it]).

With a new T430 and CF19 sitting at my parents' house in Toronto, and my T420 sitting in my apartment in Ottawa.

When I get a week off at home, I will probably dedicate a day or two on experimenting with 2 OS in 1 SSD methods, and choose what works the best. I am still surprise that you can distinguish partitions from BIOS, because I never had that. Thank you CWB32, if you would like some pictures from CERN, I can share them in another avenue, without 2mb limit.

 

the partitions can be thought of as individual drives in the same package (well , sort of) .
there is a way to partition so that the bios thinks it is a bunch of drives .
i'll double check on that .

"... participating in an irradiation project ..."
i have participated in some irrational projects ...


why is the 430 failing ?
is it truly a thermal problem ?
i have never seen a cpu get too hot from too much paste between the mating surfaces ...
what is not needed at the interface is squeezed out .
i might be a little concerned if it is a "silver based" grease ... getting on the cpu pins ... but the electrical resistance is (usually) measured 10s of Mohm per square .
you can try loading a program called "speccy" ... get it right from the piriform site ... it is free .
this will tell you (among other things) the temperatures of the MB and cpu .
if it is thermal cycling it may be because the cooling fan is not working or the heatpipe(s) have gone south ...
or , it has somehow been told to use "passive cooling" (no fan ... throttles back the cpu in relationship to temperature) .
i have seen a few cases where back in windows power plans options , that the minimum cpu speed was set to 100% and the max was the same ... the cpu was running full tilt all the time !
i will take it that you have blown out the end of the heatpipes that have the cooling fins on them ... i've seen those so packed that it looked like a piece of felt .

higgs production/field ...
i have not been keeping up on the current events (another pun) of particle physics .
what is the state of the higgs field research ... heck , have they even found it ?
have they determined any possible quark constituents/configurations ?

i'll see what i can come up with for large file sharing ...
this might go the route of file sharing via (say) *deluge* or another similar program .

 

CWB, as for Higgs production, I cannot make official statement, that come after un-blinding and publications. Latest published results so far confirm the observation of Higgs particle. Some theories predict 2 more different "flavours" of Higgs to complete the standard model, but again, a published theory, no experimental proof yet.

I am in a team to build detector upgrades. Our irradiation projects are oriented to study the effects of proton beams and particle showers on the new upgrades.

Why is T430 failing? IT says motherboard might be damaged. My optimism has so far ruled out:
1. RAM
2. Dust bunnies
3. Power supply/battery
4. OS(happens on both linux and windows)
currently ruling out thermal.

So far, I can only say that the cores and MB were at and above 70 deg celsius when it froze. There were cases when it did not froze while above 70 deg celsius. 70 is high already so thermal paste reapplication was just to drop that number, so far running at 50 +/-10 steadily.

I am also looking at some cooling pads, or one of these,
https://www.amazon.ca/Mekarsoo-Powe...98251804&sr=8-26&keywords=cooling+pad+14+inch
which returns to a point about CF19. There are no cases I could read about CF19 crashing due to overheating. How is that possible with i5 core with hd4000 inside an enclosure without a fan?!

 

Lenovo drive "might" work. You will need to try it and see.

 

Cooling is possible because of a well thought out design.
A design that uses the entire magnesium case as a heat sink.
A design that runs the SATA slower to reduce power consumption and heat.
For me, the backlit keyboard is easier to use on the CF19. Maybe it's the gap between the keys.
Most CF 19's have 2 ram slots. Any model with a camera has only one slot.


Side note.
I still want to see a quad boot drive. Separate partitions and no virtual drives. Grub is fine. Winner gets a slightly used Intel 5100 wifi card. Preferably the drive is set up for a CF 31.
Win7
Linux
MS-DOS
OSX


Watch this official video

 

Shawn, that video, and videos alike, and fail rate statistics of Toughbooks is why I want to use it as a super back-up, as I know it will work when I need it.

Are the keyboards on CF19 as easily installed as say, Lenovos?

 

PM me an email address.

 

I don't know how easy Lenovos are.
CF 19 keyboard swap will take removing 7 screws. Loosen the double face tape securing the keyboard. And a bunch of money to afford the backlit keyboard. You need to make sure you insert the power cable properly.

Only laptop other than a Toughbook that I own is a 2 old Macbooks. I got them to experiment with putting OSX on a Toughbook.
Ironically, Now 1 has OSX on it and the other has Win 7 on it.
It's much easier to put Win on a Mac than to put OSX on a PC.
I like OSX so much better than Win but Toughbooks easily win out.
Zorin 12 is a fair substitute for OSX.

 

Lenovo, you take 2 screws to access RAM and mSATA/WWAN port, take 2 screws off with keyboard diagrams, then pry the keyboard and disconnect it. 1 minute at most, with the right tools.

I'm not even sure where to begin to look for MS-DOS. Wow... I remember making my first computer games on it. Back when I couldn't use the phone when someone was on the internet. Good times.

 

"How is that possible with i5 core with hd4000 inside an enclosure without a fan?!"
have you ever heard of "black voodoo" ?


the bottom of the case is the "other side" of the heatsink .
plenty of surface area for radiation ... and thermal mass .
the trick with these is to place them on a hard surface so that there is some convective air flow/cooling .
there is also some throttling back to provide thermal headroom .

if re-gooping the interface dropped the temperature that much , that must have been some lousy paste or there is/was a mechanical problem with the interface contact/stability/integrity .
check that aspect closely .

if the higgs model predicts two more flavors ... i wonder what effect they have on varying the field or would they each interact with a given *family* of particles ?
also ... if one goes with the (as it were) traditional field theories , how would they exist simultaneously ... perhaps just slightly out of *phase* (for lack of better terms) with each other and thus , would not really react with each other .
perhaps all three interacting produce the field/effect as we observe it ... and by themselves or as a pair , the result is nothing .
there is plenty to speculate upon .

 

The quad boot is a more difficult challenge than it seems. Especially to get OSX fully running on a Toughbook. I have spent many hours working at it.
It probably would not be impossible to do quad boot on a Mac. Not sure if MS-DOS would run. No BIOS might be a problem.

Forget everything you know about working on laptops.
QUIT COMPARING to the other brand. I am not angry, but comparing is pointless. Don't worry, we will talk you through it.
Toughbooks are built to be rugged and waterproof.
Thinkpads are not rugged or waterproof.
Toughbooks are not easy to work on. (at first anyhow). There is a learning curve.
You do not get Panasonics reliability ratings with something that is "easy to work on"

Forget the Lincolns you are used to working on. This is a Hummer.

 

"QUIT COMPARING to the other brand"
insert girl dating analogy here ---> X

 

In response to CWB32, interesting. So, a cooling pad would still be useful for a toughbook I suppose. Right now, my laptop is doing fine(but it usually crashes over night when I am not looking at the screen consciously). There was a LOT of the silvery thermal paste I removed Today. I am not an expert, but there was more thermal paste than the entire CPU(well i5-3230M is tiny). I put whatever the IT people brought me today. It looked white and there was something to do with "Thermal" in French on it. The core temperature is better than before.

As for Higgs, flavour is not the best word, Generation I suppose. Standard model has 3 generations of quarks
up charm top, down strange bottom, 3 generations of leptons electron muon tauon, 3 generations of neutrinos to respective leptons. Since we found higgs, and if we wish to confirm the standard model and SUSY, we want to see 3 generations of higgs, and probably 3 generations of undiscovered associated to higgs. At the same time, CP violations have been observed, which is against the standard model, so we may not expect higher generations of higgs.

Shawn, Thank you, and I am certain I will need your help to get set up on the cf19. I am only comparing because I only know thinkpads really.

If all goes well, I may eventually jump up to CF31, and so on as far as I find really good deals. I am a big fan of fully rugged. During my military service, I used toughbooks somewhat extensively with Windows 95/98. I don't remember the models, but they were heavy, very much waterproof and definitely out of my budget.

 

ya know ... using the '19 as your main machine would impress others and make those apple users turn green and puke !
there is another advantage ... if someone disagrees with you ... it can double as a "viewpoint recalibration" tool .

 

Haha, according to someone's point of view, Thinkpads are pure anti-macs:
https://wiki.installgentoo.com/index.php?title=ThinkPad
First paragraph kills me!

You know... almost EVERYONE I've met at CERN, including supervisors and colleagues do use and own a macbook, and one supervisor even offered me a macbook that he longer uses. I insist that I won't go macbook, because I like modular hardware and software.

 

yeah ...
you might tell them that apple products and macs have a tendency to remove testosterone through the fingertips or eyeballs .
heh ... the stuff is expensive and if it aint on the list , it aint gonna work .

heh heh heh ... "4chan" .

 

Well Mac's approach reliability from a different angle.
Lock everything down so modding and adapting hardware or software is almost impossible. That reduces the chances of an owner mucking it up.
I would like to see a Mac Fully Rugged laptop. It sure would be interesting.

Thanks for that link..That was fun to read.

 

No problem, there's one for Toughbooks also.
https://wiki.installgentoo.com/index.php?title=Toughbooks

 

As far as thermal paste goes...I am not a fan (unintentional play on words but I like it) in regards to Toughbook.
A bunch of engineers in Japan opted for thermal pads for Toughbooks. So I buy the best ones I can find.

There was a write-up from England about six/eight years ago discussing where paste added to pads detracted from cooling performance. I've looked several times since then but it's lost in electronic wonderland.

Prove me wrong you lurkers out there, I'll still use thermal pads.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A subject you might explore is "chainloading" your OS's. I've read a little but it required too much thinking at the time. Subject was getting Linux to see a DOS dual boot.

Another possibility is running Linux with Windows VM. (Is that right???the virtual thingy)

Just throwing ideas out there.

Jeff

 

Thank you Jeff, but I cannot do VM for sure. It was well-explored for a year or so before hard dual-boot. I do need a full Linux and a full Windows(I tried W7 in VM from Linux, and Linux in VM from W7 machine).

I will do some reading on chainloading OS's

 

Wow... A lot to read for a day's worth!

SJ... You will LOVE your Toughbook. I'll be the first to make the prediction... You might as well start calling it "your first Toughbook" as they are addicting as heck! You WILL buy another... Then another... Then another. You will then start selling other stuff in order to buy more... And more! You are just getting started on the slippery slope! Congratulations... Just lean back and enjoy it!

I find Toughbooks MUCH easier to work on than other laptops. Toughbooks, to me, seem to be made to be able to be taken apart. Most other laptops are a compendium of snap together plastic and are made to be put together... Not really to be serviced. Last I read the Toughbooks had a mean failure rate of 1.7% or something like that... The next best laptop was in the 13% range!

As mentioned... There is a slight learning curve but it is intuitive and easy. The other good thing is that they are VERY forgiving of any potential mistakes. A lot of us here have spent years coming up with out own inventions or modifications. I have made every mistake there is to make while learning these things over the past 10 years. I have never made the magic smoke come out even though I have made some spectacular blunders when I was learning early on. They are hard to kill... They are built that way.

One suggestion... Get on eBay or Amazon and buy a good Wiha brand screwdriver set. You will mainly be interested in the Phillips head... But I would get a slotted & Phillips set. This is the set I bought... Though I have many others...

https://www.amazon.com/Wiha-26199-S...98268561&sr=8-2&keywords=wiha+screwdriver+set

I keep them in my kitchen drawer as I use them so often... Not just on Toughbooks but EVERYTHING! They are precision and work well!

Have fun!

 

"There is a slight learning curve but it is intuitive and easy"
certainly easier than the learning curve associated with women .
(and i am betting that it is an open curve , not closed)


there is one major bugaboo with the toughbooks ... one of the reasons you don't have to play this :

there are plenty of sub-circuit fuses for protection .
these fuses are scattered and not always easily accessible unless one removes more *stuff* .
and they are tiny !

 

Yeah... But seriously... How many times have you ever burned out a fuse by fooling around and/or doing something wrong? I remember burning out an LCD screen fuse on a CF-28 one time... But it was an easy fix.

A short story... Last year I had an old customer email me asking if I could build him another CF-30. He owns an excavation business and bought 4-5 Toughbooks from me. He said that the laptop works fine... But only in the port replicator. He said he needed to be able to bring it back out in the field. This made no sense to me at the time but then the story unfolded. One of the guys had left the Toughbook on his truck bed and drove off. The Toughbook fell off the back of the truck and was then run over by a bulldozer. This crushed the LCD lid and screen... He had pictures of the keyboard being shattered after it left its imprint on the LCD. The case was cracked... But hey... It STILL worked! I was amazed the motherboard was intact. I just checked my old emails trying to find the pictures but I couldn't... If someone were to have asked... I would have guaranteed it was beyond hope. But he had been using the crushed laptop in his office for months in the replicator.

I shipped him out an identical barebones unit and he was able to transfer the hard drive, battery and DVD over to the new one.

These are amazing toys/tools... Just one reason I use mine to store the nuclear codes!

 

"How many times have you ever burned out a fuse by fooling around and/or doing something wrong"
on a toughbook , i have popped 2 fuses and have swapped out 7 fuses popped by *others* .
some were easy to get to , others were a PITA ... especially those located on the side of the MB facing the keyboard .
complete removal of the MB is almost always needed in the latter case .

with my mom , when i was a kid , it wasn't always a fuse she would pop ...
most times she would blow a gasket !

 

I think it's impressive that a laptop has fuses!

Also, I wonder if some toughbook suppliers would want to buy a badly damaged toughbook as a showcase to show off that "this thing has been ran over by a bulldozer, and it still works" in a display case

 

laptops have fuses ... many use a "polyfuse" .
these are self-resetting types ... not a mechanical circuit breaker but actually a polymorphous conductor , this makes it a "solid state" device .

most of the toughbooks and ruggedbooks use "one-shot link fuses" .
the thinking is that if a fuse pops , there is a reason for it and it will not self correct .

 

Yeah... I distinctly remember being 5 or 6 and plugging one of my mom's bobby pins into the wall socket. No blown fuse... Just a blown Rick... It knocked me across the room. It was that day I discovered electricity!

 

After my CF-28 fiasco... I started harvesting fuses off of the MBs... IIRC... They are white little blocks most times. I remember on the CF-28... I didn't have a spare fuse so I crafted my own with an old Buss fuse of the same specs. There was plenty of room to fit it and it worked well.

 

yeppers ...
there was a cold air return register in the floor below an outlet .
the story goes that i was still in diapers and would sit on that register and poke things in the outlet .
my mom and sister would hear me making "strange sounds" and come running ...
one would have a broom and knock me away/off of the outlet and register .
they finally started keeping a broom near the outlet (talk about your *repeat offenders*) .
the proof of this was made by my dad ...
in the 50s up to the mid 60s 8mm movies were the rage .
if you were shooting indoors , you needed a very bright light source .
my dad used a 4 200W lamp bar ... those lamps were only good for about 2 hours at the most .
yessir ... there is a movie of me sitting there and shoving something into the outlet and then bouncing around and pulling my hand back ...
a few seconds later , i did it again !
now ... remember my dad had to have set up the equipment ahead of time and as he could not be there all the time to catch me in the act ...
he had to have prompted me !

 

Now THAT made me laugh. Those were "The good old days"... I can picture you and your dad doing that.

These days... It would be posted on YouTube and he'd be arrested and you would be placed on Adderall and institutionalized! I'll bet you are also a closet pyro like me! Ha!

I remember the old 8mm days... Though now I am more into 9mm.

 

yep ... 9mm ... used to do 105mm and 155mm .
i was into chemistry by the time i was 10 ... of course a smattering of physics along the way .
i recall a poster of the then known quarks (and some theorized) on a wall when i was 12 ... i have no idea why i remember that ... could i be remembering it wrong ?
there were only a few , this would have been in '68 or thereabout .
i leaned toward electrical , electronics and mechanical .
heh ... helped a childhood friend build a dye laser completely from the ground up (i was 15-16) ... including building/winding the power transformer by hand ; about 150 pounds worth of copper and iron .
it used rhodamine 6G with everclear as the solvent and the lase tube was about 14" X 2" thick walled quartz glass .
it was built to be pulsed at about 60Hz and used a glass tube cooling tower and variable flow pump .
(never got the "Q" switching style to work ... stuck with fixed mirror compliment)
it got him to the GE finals in florida that year .

things were different back then ...
when we set off some of our "experiments" one or two of the city cops would show up to check on our safety measures ...
part of this was them actually *testing* our devices and mixtures .
yeah , i sure miss those days .

 

That takes me back... Though you are definitely the "brain" in this conversation. My strong suit is collaboration. Identify the best and brightest... Team with them... We discuss... We do our things then come back and report, chat, debate, etc. I have learned SO MUCH not being the smartest guy in the room! This forum, specifically the Panasonic Forum, has TOP TALENT! I explained to the owner here years ago... The Panasonic Forum is after truth, performance and slick mods that do us all good. We don't discuss religion or politics or who is doing Kim Kardashian this week! (or which "direction" her latest kid is pointing!)

My dad was a Ham Radio Operator.. I remember us building his Heathkit SB-102 and other stuff... Erecting his tower on the side of the house and every year at Field Day! Somewhere around here I have a 4" tall trophy for being the winning rabbit on the 2M rabbit hunt we'd go to on weekends. That was a blast and I wish I could live it all over again!

 

@Toughbook ....Rick it sure is nice to see you back to you old self

 

Thanks Blair!