To Mod or Not to Mod

HI,
Yes, the desert but also many other equally inhospitible places. This use establishes my need for reliability, not just for the Toughbook but also all the other gear I carry and the vehicle. Help is just not generally available.

Sparky

 

Like TB said, lets calm it down and get back on topic. We all know where Sparky is coming from and his outlook on us. Let's just all agree to disagree.

Sparky, I firmly believe you should only come on here to seek an answer to something you are doing. Please do not attack the Mods that are performed by these guys. This isnt your normal Dell crowd, as you might have noticed by now.

Doobi, I could not have said it any better. That's all I am saying from here on about that arguement.

Now, back to the original scheduled program. Garmin GPS systems have been brought up several times here. I have the Garmin PC GPs system I used to use to play around with. The one thng it has going for it is it's very user friendly. You can be anywhere and find the directions, phone #, address, and such very easy. It will even tell you the current gas prices your near if you have the web with with, as well as flight info, and weather. The GPS part actually locks on very well and never loses signal. The downside is it is not very user configurable at all. You would need to get a seperate Garmin device to do that. Garmin does make a very nice set of TOPO maps that you can install, along with any body of water as well.
I recently bought the Delorme, which is actually just the oppisite. It is so confusing too me. However, it appears it will allow me to do ALOT of configuring once I figure it out.

What I would to know is what type of software are you guys usings with your systems? Can it be used with different software of one's choice?

 

Toyo,
I have a couple of issues with Garmin;
1. Their so called topo maps are vector not raster so they look like a video game not a classic topo map. I'm old and not of the video game generation so I can't stand them. Spare me the little blue mountains with snow on top!
2. In the US at least, the National Parks are not on the Garmin Topo maps, you have to buy 3 disks at around $75 each to get topo maps of the parks.
3. Garmin very proudly sent me an annual update disc for my city and street maps for my little Garmin 276c. When I went to load it the first screen was a form to send them $75 for the update. Enough for Garmin.
The DeLorme topo maps are great, the user interface is way too complicated. They are serious GIS people, and Topo is a stripped down version of their XMAP software. Its like using AutoCad instead of Paint. Much more powerful but a very steep learning curve. If you are serious you might as well learn OZI, its cheap and very powerful. Maps can be found for free for almost any area of the world if you are using OZI and not locked into a single companies map files.
CAP

 

Cap, I am with you in regards to the way Garmin does there mapping updates. However, I have noticed they have changed the way they do it. I think it's a buy it once and then it's free for the life of the unit. But here is the catch. Garmin discontinues, and stops supporting there units way too soon. I have a 376c, just a step up from yours. It is just over 3 years old I believe. It was there mac daddy at the time, in the last 6 months they have stopped upgrading the software and everything.

The Delorme is WAY to complicated. I think I might return that one. I would like to know more about the one you were describing though. Or, if I would ever send my unit to TB he can install his magic.

 

I guess I need to play around with OZI and learn it.... Is it hard to pick up?

 

HI,
I do not use Garmin maps on my Toughbook. I think they are useless as is Delorme. I use my Garmin GPS strictly for current GPS location, its trip computer, and to get coordinates so my software can plot real time vehicle location on the computer sceen.

I use REAL, topo maps published by the USGS. The particular software package I use is by MY TOPO, formerly Maptech. The maps, at a variety of scales, are spectacular. They are actual scans of the USGS topo paper maps. This is the only mapping software I would be willing to bet my life on. But, there might be others that I am not familiar with.

Sparky

 

Karma16,
I certainly did not recommend Garmin for anything! The term raster when used to refer to maps or charts means scanned from originals. Vector charts, like Garmin's are digitally derived. DeLorme Topo, as well as several others are scans from USGS, DMA, NOAA, and several other government agencies. They are all free to anyone who can find the download sites. The thing with virtually all consumer mapping software out there is they require the images to be used with proprietary file extensions which belong to the software companies. Ozi, which is kind of a shareware deal, will use maps in most of the formats used by GIS professionals, i.e. BSB, USGS, DRG, SID, etc. It will also use maps from most of the GPS manufacturers, Garmin, Magellan, Lowrance, etc. Or you can scan your own. DeLorme's maps are fine, they just have a very frustrating user interface as mentioned in my previous post.
CAP
Rick, Ozi isn't that hard but its not for nit wits.

 

I don’t want to cause any disagreements here but in a lot of situations I like vector maps and charts
Sometimes they have less detail, but the ability to layer information is nice
And you can change scales from ft, yards, meters, kilometers, miles, nautical miles etc

Alex

 

Alex,
I just don't like the look of vector charts, not what I grew up with I guess. DeLorme Topo does allow switching from feet to meters to nautical miles etc. You can build any number of layers over the map and show or hide them as you please. As I said, most people don't know how as the user interface is so lousy and non-intuitive. If you take a look at their forum you can see how much trouble most people have with the program. My biggest gripe is with the proprietary map formats. At least Maptech uses .BSB and .KAP files for Offshore Navigator so the NOAA downloads work for nautical charts. They just don't tell you how to point the program to the downloaded charts. I bet you can figure it out. It takes about 45 minutes to update all charts from Eastport to Key West and its free. Our coast guard actually checks to see if our charts are current.
CAP

 

HI All,
I don't have any experience with free maps. I can't comment on their quality. But in this world you almost always get what you pay for. My Topo (the brand name) maps are not free. In fact, I had to pay about $100 per state. I have complete map coverage of New Mexico (where I live), Colorado, Utah, and Arizona. Maps are provided in 7 1/2 minute, 100,000 to 1 and 250,000 to 1 scales, all topographic. All scales can be displayed in 3D. Additionally, the scales can be modified using the My Topo software. This offers great flexibility.

Maps can be read from the DVD's or stored on disk. Disk is much better but the maps take a lot of space. Better still, I have all four states stored on a 64 GB thumbdrive that I interface to the Toughbook's USB port with an extension cable. The thumbdrive is apparently as fast as disk and it saves wear and tear on the hard disk. This is especially important when driving very rough trails which could cause the disk to crash. This scheme works very well. But, it takes quite a lot of time to transfer the DVD's to the thumbdrive. It's worth the effort.

Sparky

Sparky

 

Sparky,
When I say free maps I mean free maps from the government agency who does the mapping. The maps from which your expensive maps are copied. You do understand that the only outfit which can afford to actually collect all the data that is on a 1:250000 topo map is the government, right. The maps are free because you, as a taxpayer, have already paid for them. As I said before the US maps are all out there in raster or vector format for free. Check out the links on the OZI site, you will find your NM topo maps for free in very short order.
CAP
Free New Mexico maps, http://libremap.org/data/state/new_mexico/drg/

 

Hi Capt,
I have been looking at the OZI site based upon your suggestions. I have not yet downloaded anything but I plan to give it a try. It looks interesting.

One issue with Maptech is their maps cover the USA very well but almost nothing internationally such as Mexico. I have emailed Maptech about this lack and they don't seem to be interested. I have assumed that the necessary maps don't exist but I don't know for sure. I don't know if other countries have an equivalent agency as the USGS to do the mapping. Probably Canada is so endowed but I doubt that Mexico and other less rich countries are.

Have you actually used Maptech Terrain Navigator software? If so, how does it compare to the OZI product? I have been very happy with Terrain Navigator features and reliability. I don't see myself switching to another package for my normal usage. But for less common usage, I don't have anything against using another package as long as it is excellent; excellent being the operative word.

Last question: how do you use your software? Are you doing real time tracking in the back country? This is crucial for me.

I'll keep you informed about this experiment. Unfortunately, my little Jeep is not currently running. I'm in the middle of some mods. I'll probably try OZI real time tracking in my other vehicle. A full test will take some time.

Thanks, Sparky

 

Sparky,
The only Maptech product I have used is Offshore Navigator, a marine chart program. I like it a lot. They have recently stopped linking to free map download sites, they'd rather sell you a DVD. OZI is a very powerful program, basically open source, which gives you the option of using an extensive array of maps in different forms. Look for the free map links on their site, I think you will be surprised at what's available. We had one member here who needed maps of Morroco. I was able to find them, unfortunately only in Russian. Just search on Google for "free maps" and you will find plenty. As I said the originals are all government generated with few exceptions.
As for where I use GPS, at work chiefly for dredge positioning and spoils disposal where sub-meter accuracy is not optional, it is mandatory. For driving, any thing from S&T for highway to DeLorme for topo maps when we go off road. How far off road? Mrs Dogfish and I would not think of going where we go in the desert without a minimum of 5 gallons of drinking water and a satellite phone.
CAP

 

They seem to charge money for the full version, how do you consider this open source? am I missing something?

Also, excuse my ignorance, but at 90 USD this software seems very expensive. At least compared to MS S&T.

What justifies this price?

thanks

 

If you take Toughbook's advice, the Globalstat website has Iguidance for 30%off which puts it around $70.

 

gothed,
I consider it open source because the owner makes source code available for others to add functionality and applets to the base program. M$ S&T is a very basic street navigation program. you have very limited control of what's on the screen, for instance, on a pc screen you have to zoom in so tight to get minor roads to show up that the area shown by the map is too small to be of much use. I was thinking today that as bad as their auto routing is, its amazing that they can do it at all.! When we are talking about OZI and other programs like it you cannot compare them to any consumer oriented street direction programs, they are so much more than that. If you have to ask the difference between S&T and a serious GIS program you probably don't need the GIS. I don't mean to be snarky, Sparky and I are talking about serious navigation software which the Garmins, Tom-Toms, Magellans are not. They are fine for what they are, I use a fairly high end Garmin unit for quick and dirty turn by turn trips to addresses I'm not familiar with. I just like OZI best of those I have tried, I do hear some good things about Fugawi but have never used it. The point about OZI is you can use it without being chained to a vendor who charges you $100 per state to burn free maps to a DVD and locks the maps so they will only work with their software. OZI is a real deal when compared to other programs to which it can be seriously compared. Think of a state issued roadmap: S&T. Think of a highly detailed topographic map:OZI.
CAP

 

Several factors

Ozi is the most versatile software as it allows a multitude of different types of maps and charts to be used
No other software program on the market has this much versatility
Most programs restrict you to run their propriety charts and maps
Does this sound familiar
You buy a printer for $49 and the replacement ink cartridges cost more that the printer lol
If you add up the price on other programs to unlock other regions or functionality you will find out that Ozi is a bargain
They also upgrade their program from time to time and you are entitled to upgrade to the latest version at no cost
Not so with other commercial software on the market, you either pay full price when a newer version is released ,or you pay a discounted price ,nothing is ever free

Alex

 

Your CF-30MK2 still has its OEM GPS? I didn't think it'd stack up well against the modifed 20channel GPS with active antennas Rick and Teo offer...nonetheless it is good to hear it's working well for you