7970m Logging Thread, Games with Utilization Issues (Only post logs, NO questions please)

For some reason msi afterburner IMHO its not very reliable for meassuring GPU temps, the temps you are seeing might be IPCH temps, wich would be kind of normal (not ideal tho)

try using Msi on screen display with msi afterburner AND HWINFO,
First open MSI AB, then K (kombustor) and open HWinfo "sensors only" (then u can close K). MSI On screen display can be opened all the time, no need to close it or restart it.
Now in HWINFO check that your radeon is detected and scroll down the list to CONFIGURE:
now look up the option: GPU THERMAL DIODE select it and check "show" in RIVA tuner section

in msi disable the show on screen option for gpu temp.

You should now see the gpus real temp, you can actually play around with hwinfo while you have a game opened and see different values like cpu usage and temps, etc, etc, even gpu % utilization.

Ah and make sure the game has a profile in "Msi on screen display", this way you can be sure what you are reading, the PCH temp is also available in hwinfo if you want to monitor it (first make sure wich one is wich..)
hwinfo also gives you readings on mins max and average temps, etc.
i hope it aint too complicated (it really isnt).

As a reference my laptop works between 50 and 83 (maxed with kombustor) for the 7970M. In games it varies, crysis 2 reaches 75 tops, diablo III works usually round the 60. Everything in max ultra settings.
I cant comment about borderlands 2, will have to install it and check, but i think its a game issue more than your card.

regards
Voz

 

Don't need to open kombustor. And my 85*~ temps are with MSI, not HWInfo.

 

At least for me i need kombustor open before opening hwinfo or i dont get the 7970 in the list in hwinfo, guess it varies but it doesnt harm

I leave here some benchmarks measured with fraps:
All games maxed in ultra settings or its equivalent, vsync off and no distance or limits set.

2012-09-23 20:57:53 - Crysis2 (DX9 city map second mission, firefight, campaign)
Frames: 3577 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 59.617 - Min: 54 - Max: 65

2012-09-24 15:23:52 - Diablo III
Frames: 5111 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 85.183 - Min: 77 - Max: 93

2012-09-24 17:24:53 - Diablo III
Frames: 5097 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 84.950 - Min: 64 - Max: 92

2012-09-24 22:30:54 - Skyrim (outdoors, out of the first town)
Frames: 2590 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 43.167 - Min: 21 - Max: 63

2012-09-25 15:42:36 - witcher2 (fights in the city, outdoors)
Frames: 2001 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 33.350 - Min: 26 - Max: 40

2012-09-25 15:44:08 - witcher2
Frames: 1837 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 30.617 - Min: 18 - Max: 41

2012-09-26 20:25:01 - witcher2 (medium settings, vsync on)
Frames: 7641 - Time: 130682ms - Avg: 58.470 - Min: 20 - Max: 64

2012-09-26 20:29:10 - witcher2 (medium settings, vsync off)
Frames: 4316 - Time: 59171ms - Avg: 72.941 - Min: 20 - Max: 343
felt like 60 all the time tho.

2012-09-26 20:33:46 - witcher2 (ultra settings, vsync off and hiperreal off)
Frames: 7332 - Time: 128950ms - Avg: 56.859 - Min: 18 - Max: 341

2012-09-25 17:45:55 - SC2
Frames: 4185 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 69.750 - Min: 61 - Max: 80

2012-09-25 20:20:17 - Crysis2 (DX11 and HD textures installed)
Frames: 6507 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 36.150 - Min: 18 - Max: 65

2012-09-25 20:27:15 - Crysis2
Frames: 6959 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 38.661 - Min: 26 - Max: 53


In diablo III activating vsync makes the gpu % go down and FPS stick at steady 60, gameplay is exactly the same so i am using vsync for it.
In crysis i got around 98% usage, except scene swaps and such, but that doesnt count i guess.
Witcher i think i was getting 99% GPU usage as well.
Skyrim i DO get low GPU usage, round 50 or 60%.

So far i havent noticed the GPU % utilization issue, except when lowering the graphics settings, but i am playing all the games in ultra very comfortably for now. I will report more findings when i find the time to write a longer separate thread.
One thing i can say for sure, in all games i tested so far activating the video capture feature from msiAB or fraps lowers the FPS and GPU usage by 30 or more %.
But as i said all games i have tested play fluently, even skyrim and witcher wich seem lower by FPS average dont feel slow at all (to me)

 

Fresh news:

 

Enduro at its finest ! Also note that the whole area isn't like that (as seen in the last pic). It's only in one particular area, and only when you're facing toward a certain direction.

Edit: I forgot to upload the pic showing the GPU at 20%, too lazy to do it now, lol.

 

Make sure to state driver version guys.

 

I stated mine a long time ago. Still using stock. That, and there's really not much difference between the ones out as they all have the Enduro issue.

 

Yeah, I had a ton of problems with BL2. It would CTD or blue screen my computer all the time. Did you install the latest PhysX drivers?

I've also been having memory corruption problems and since I pulled out half my RAM it hasn't crashed yet. Not sure which one evened it out but I've played three 4+ hour long sessions and since then, no crashes.

I also don't get any higher than 83*, but I usually hang around 77*-79*. That's with a p150em.

 

Last physx I installed came with Max Payne 3.

 

Srikar, i've been playing Borderlands 2 and i havent had any crashes or bsds.

the only game that crashed for me was max payne 3 until i learned i couldnt use DX11.

currently been playing GW2 and BL2 and BF3 and everythign is running OK. can't really complain and say its not playable, because come on... but i would love full utilization of this card... i'm a bit upset that mythlogic didn't tell me about this problem when i purchased this laptop. i asked the rep whether i should go 7970 or 680 and they recommended the 7970.

i'm using the installed drivers from mythlogic: 8.980.0.0

 

DX9 won't fix MP3's crashes. Trust me, lol. What you need to do is when launching the game, open the task manager and set the game to run on two cores instead of eight. When I did that it stopped crashing all together in both 9 and 11.

Edit: Also, I was around level 18 when BL2 first crashed on me. Since then, it has crashed 3 other times. So yeah... It's so weird. Didn't crash at all yesterday, and what little I played of today has been fine. Also when it blue screens, when restarting the computer my the keyboard light program doesn't load and I'm stuck with blue until I restart the computer again.

 

I cannot agree more with you ebolamonkey, i have about the same performance.

About BL2 i installed it yesterday and it runs very good, no crashes, i have played for 4 hours or so only tho. I got these fraps meassurements in the early missions, with all settings high the mute sound option on .. whatever... on, AA x4 and physx low (did not notice anything special setting it high)

2012-09-27 17:08:57 - Borderlands2
Frames: 11045 - Time: 138841ms - Avg: 79.551 - Min: 59 - Max: 94

2012-09-27 17:12:52 - Borderlands2
Frames: 12058 - Time: 162974ms - Avg: 73.987 - Min: 56 - Max: 89

A little later in the game i did notice my gpu usage and FPS going down, around 15 to 20 FPS in certain melee conditions. I am not completely sure if this issue is solely enduro related but it sure affects playability for this game a bit, its still very playable IMHO, but sure it aint somenthing that should happen. The game doesnt seem so demanding but those boulder shooting dudes probably make a mess in rendering for the card.... I would say that if the problem IS enduro related then it should be fixed in the October driver fixes coming.. or at least improve.

OH and I use catalyst 12.8, since i installed it all games run a bity better and more stable, i recommend using it, havent tried the 12.9 beta yet, but i have never had game crashes or BSODs whatsoever.

 

^A couple examples of what you're missing without Physx. Note that all of those particles, liquids, and cloth interact with the player. Shoot a banner and it moves accordingly and will now have a bullet hole. Shoot a banner enough and you'll rip it to shreds and it'll fall to the ground. Jump through some banners or tents, and they'll rip open. Walk through a bunch of rocks on the ground from an explosion or bullet holes, and they scatter around when you touch them. Rocks will also bounce up and down, sliding downhill, near those rig things that pound the ground.




Edit: Oh yeah, here's a shot of the aftermath from fighting a couple of crystalisks. Remember that all of those particles can be interacted with.

 

I've played BL2 for 7 hours now with no crashing. maybe it's code related to post lvl 18 i'll let u know i should hit 18 soon.

and for mP3, i'm just letting u know what i did. i was on dx11 and it was constantly crashing. constantly. every few minutes. i switched to dx9 and then i was able to play to the end with no problems.

 

Same with me on both counts.

I'm more than 30+ hours into BL2.. BL2 runs flawlessly at max settings. I do however have the Physx set to low. I enjoy the extra effects of med/high Physx..The problem is, when there is a big gun fight the fps drops to near single digits.

As for MP3. On DX11 I could play for around 15-25 mins before a crash. On DX9 flawless. I had similar DX11 issues with Batman: AC. Switching to DX9 also fixed the crashing.

I still cant however, run Sleeping Dogs. I get a constant "HkShip.exe has stopped working" crash. The only way I get the game to run is by setting it to "power saving" and playing in 720p/24fps. I haven't started a serious playthrough because of this. I've owned the game since August. Really upset about that one.

 

Guys, this is a bit old (18 SEPT), but its highly encouraging news and confirms what many have been saying, the good bit is that Jarred form Anandtech is very confident the underutilization issue will be fixed..

SOURCE: Anandtechs article, page 19 of comments

Even if its old post its great news!.we can hope for the best or keep on crying like many will anyway... lol

cheers
Voz

 

Why are you posting old news? No need for it.

 

The "transferring...worse" part was new to me.

 

i called it first! lol j/k .. but yeah, this is exactly what I have been saying for 2 months now. DMA bottleneck between dGPU and iGPU, hopefully they can implement some sort of optimus copy engine-esque workaround.

 

1) Because i myself havent read these before, only went back to the article yesterday.
2) Since i did not read this here (i do check NBR lot more often) i thougt it would be useful to post it since probably many NBR users would not have read it.

Of all the latest news, this one is by far the more complete and encouraging one, so its important its quoted in NBR, if someone did quote it before my apologies, i missed it.

Point taken, BUT its not a hardware bottleneck, even if its transfer related.

 

It was stated on tomshardware that this is driver related, and remember the whole thing, "over the PCIe bus and some other areas." The most we know is that there is a "balance" issue between data going in and data going out of the 7000m card, and one of the pathways includes the PCIe bus. The others probably include those within the 7970m itself and the connection between the CPU and 7970m.

 

imho CPU has nothing to do with this, other than the fact that iGPU resides in the CPU itself, its definitely not bottlenecked i have tested several games and they all show normal CPU utilization. Also, there are no other data pathways connecting the two, PCIe is the only path. Whatever was said on TomsHardware was pretty vague and sounded like the writer was not sure himself and was paraphrasing. I dont know what you mean by "balance" issue - iGPU & dGPU both exchange data via PCIe and the problem is that this exchange is currently synchronous (think half duplex). With nvidia optimus its asynchronous, so essentially you have a full duplex data operation which does not wait for for data to come back before sending again.

 

Hi, guys! What settings are correct here
And the high performance. Thanks !

 

That's not where you toggle Enduro settings. That's your power settings. Enduro is in the Catalyst Control Center. Or simply, right click the desktop and there should be an option to change switchable graphics.

 

The CPU transfers data to render to the 7970m through the PCIe lane? And the iGPU sends data to the 7970m? Is that just data telling the 7970m that it is ready for more display info?

Btw check THIS out:
AnandTech - NVIDIA Optimus - Truly Seamless Switchable Graphics and ASUS UL50Vf

At the bottom, "There may be a slight performance hit relative to native rendering, but it should be less than 5% and the cost and routing benefits far outweigh such concerns."
And THAT is the value AMD mentioned recently, which was the 1%-5% performance loss that would be expected after the bottleneck was fixed. They say the 12.10 driver will fix the bottleneck, meaning the hardware feature for asynchronous transferring needed IS onboard the 7000m series cards, it just isn't being managed properly. Oh, and Nvidia implemented the Copy Engine in early 2010. I would eat my hat if AMD hadn't taken note on that hardware feature by the time they were developing the 7000m series.

I am so damn excited for the next release.

 

This I know))) How correctly to adjust the plan in the screenshot ?

 

Ok arctic, this is a nice read.

From Virtualizing The GPU: How It Works : Can Lucidlogix Right Sandy Bridge

"Naturally, the process of mapping one adapter’s frame buffer to the other’s over PCI Express is not free. You’re generally looking a 1 to 1.2 ms process.

So, say you’re running Call of Duty at 100 frames per second. That means each frame is being rendered in 10 ms. Factor in the time it takes to move that frame from the discrete GPU to the other GPU for output, and you’re looking at 11.2 ms or slightly more than 89 frames per second.

Now take that number to the other extreme. Let’s say you’re running Metro 2033 at 20 frames per second. Each frame gets rendered in 50 ms. Add 1.2 ms for the frame buffer transfer and you’re looking at 51.2 ms, or 19.53 frames per second. Clearly, the concern about overhead is more pronounced at higher frame rates, where performance theoretically won’t be affected as severely."

Man does the internet rock.

My question is, is how the HELL did AMD pass a driver for the 7000m series that contained a bug that DISABLED THE COPY ENGINE? (assuming they implemented one). How can a professional driver team let that happen? An extremely important feature going unused in many if not all games for 6 months. It is unthinkable.

 

it does, its the only bus connecting the two.

it does, not sure what that data is but Optimus papers refer to a 2 way data exchange between both GPUs.

I dont really know, i would imagine its something like that.

just to clarify - I am not saying that the necessary hardware for asynchronous transfer isnt there, just that it would appear that AMD are not utilizing this method and rather everything is going via regular synchronous DMA transfer.

 

i dont think copy engine is a hardware feature, but rather a transfer trick programmed into drivers that works around hardware limitations of switchable graphics over PCIe. I think AMD just did not fully test their current implementation to become aware of this problem.

 

I only have "Link State Power Management" under PCI Express. It's off for both battery and plugged in.

Edit: Why can't clicking reply under a post add the quote?! The forum options here greatly need some work (I'm looking at you, insert image button!).

 

On topic, I've actually managed to get to 0% GPU utilization! Yay! Yes, this is on the 7970! Lol.

 

Oh happened to me really often Srikar, even on torchlight II.

 

The Optimus copy engine is based on a hardware feature, a fact stated in most descriptions of the copy engine.

 

i stand corrected then, description that I've read sounded like its simply an alternative transfer technique. in that case I am seriously hoping that AMD have in fact developed a counterpart of their own and simply did not make use of it somehow..

 

Some more comments from Jarred, he is answering me if the issue is hardware or software related:

I bolded the relevant bit, seems the tests are really showing good numbers...
as to the root casue, we probably will never know for sure, but clearly improvements without hardware intrussion is a software related issue IMHO, in the end thats what software does: making hardware work better (or up to its limits, wich are not yet reached for what Jarred says)

cheers
Voz

PS: i am so addicted to BL2 that i stopped watching the GPU %s. I did record some fraps tho, and yes there is a minimum of 0 FPS in one!, but that really didnt show in the actual game (i was fighting captain flint i think). Its not completely fluid but i didnt feel stuck at all. As Jarred stated, we have to take a closer look at meassuring tools and their records.

2012-10-01 16:30:18 - Borderlands2
Frames: 7610 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 42.278 - Min: 21 - Max: 61

2012-10-01 18:24:56 - Borderlands2
Frames: 9055 - Time: 180000ms - Avg: 50.306 - Min: 0 - Max: 64

 

Or alleviate hardware incapacity. Its pointless to make any predictions at this point, since the patch is coming soon (pretty sure everyone is willing to wait a while longer). We will soon see if it indeed fixes the issue, or if it is another disappointment. 1-5% performance hit would be acceptable, but something like 10% would be really pushing it.

 

AnandTech - Testing AMD

Mother of god.

 

Hoped to see some min fps as well as utilization reports.

Interested to see AW vs Clevo comparison when the hotfix is released. Definately a big step towards eliminating the issues. Hopefully AMD will keep on working on a more definitive solution in the future.

 

yeah the report doesnt show GPU use %s, but i guess we will have to live with that for now. One thing is clear and that is that lowering graphic details will yield better FPS.
The AW/clevo 7970M equipped notrebook's comparison would be the judge for the fix, 680M clearly is and will continue being a superior card for a superior price.

As Jarred stated the real good news is AMD's commitment to release drivers on a regular basis.

 

Am i the only one disappointed ?
I know it's a beta and it's still early but I was expecting more than 6.7% increase in 1080p and I don't care much about low resolution.

 

Let's wait...
In review they used the max FPS as parameter.
What matters is an effective increase in the average FPS

 

Not sure where it says they used max only. It doesn't say whether they used average or max, but you could infer they used average because the max FPS for BF3 at max settings is obviously not 41FPS. The max is much higher than that.

 

Yep, I'm holding my breath until the actual fix comes. I will say that I don't expect that until the end of October though. AMD's track record with this issue gives me no confidence that they will deliver it before the end of the month.

 

There is no point in releasing bugged/untested driver. I'd rather wait longer for the driver than have it released broken (it still might be though, but less likely).

Also from Jarred: "We have not been able to test non-Enduro 7970M yet; I'm hoping to get the M17x R4 + 7970M in some time in the near future. At that point we can get a better view of the performance with/without Enduro. ( And we might have another driver updated from AMD by then as well.)"

That might not be the final version of the 1st utilization fix.

 

That is correct. The fact that the first semi-public release already does so well indicates that there is a lot of potential in the work AMD is doing right now, but for the short term, the hotfix that will be released to us will have similar performance but some additional stability improvements to make sure it is suitable for us when it comes out in a week. Think of this week as the time for "finishing touches."

This is a hotfix, meaning it won't be WHQL and is more of a temporary thing. 12.10 WHQL will be "the" driver, but AMD will continue to make improvements after that as well.

 

If you take batman out of the equation its around 12% improvement. You gotta consider that in ultra settings the underutilization isnt so bad as well, so there its NOT going to improve much. Also one must consider that the underutilization issue doesnt show always in many games, but moreso in MP 64 BF3 for ex, certain maps, etc. Benchmars seldom consider such specific settings, so in the end it will be us users who will have to test the fix for real....
Also 1 or 2 FPS average is a lot in ultra settings.
I also miss min FPS data, the underutilization shows in min FPS more than average (i got 0 FPS in BL2 for example, even tho i didnt notice it ingame)

The real deal will be results with overclocking and compared against AW without enduro, thats the real deal we are waiting for.

Jarred has been quite accurate so far, so even if its next week or end of the month its pretty soon.

Bottom line is that if you are expecting 7970M to outperform or equal 680M you are in for a dissapointment. This card is 30 to 40% cheaper, and it will be 20 to 30% slower than 680M in the long run, better in some games, equal in other, but worst in most, thats just reality.

 

"Soon" is rather relative in this case don't you think ?

But yes. The 7970M is not equal to 680M, which should be obvious when looking at the price difference. There never really were any problems with the max fps, just with the fps dropping low when it was not supposed to. Hoping the future patches will make the Enduro enabled 7970M a close match to the 7970M without enduro.

 

It is phrased that way to make it sound more fancy, but there's no extra real-world-physical hardware involved. Just drivers, dll's, and BIOS co-operating with them. The hardware involved is just a plain vanilla PCIe 2.0 x16 link.

iGPU and the dGPU don't communicate with each other, they just render into the same framebuffer in main memory. It's the job of the CPU, the OS (that's why this works only with Win 7 and beyond), the drivers and the BIOS to enable distributing the surface areas and sharing the job of creating the frame which the iGPU sends to the display.

 

I quoted you from rage3d Tranta... those are really poetic words, you have a writing gift man... lol
I could "almost" feel sorry for AMD driver team, but .... NOT YET... they have to come out and speak their mind and feelings before... your scenario is pretty emotional tho.

i guess we are slowly becoming hopefull a real fix will come from our "AMD fathers".. lol

 

My NP9150 order is on hold until the end of the month because I selected the 675MX. Only problem is my old vaio broke last night, so I'm without a computer for an entire month unless I change my gpu... and I work off the computer, so I need one. The info about the hotfix and potential driver fixes is making me reconsider my position on the 7970. I may join the club and just hope for a fix. IDK how I would survive without a computer for a month if I didn't get the 7970...

since this is already a discussion thread, anybody care to share their thoughts? as amd owers, I think you're qualified to give your opinions.

gtx 675mx-4GB gddr5, almost as powerful as 7970 but no enduro

or

7970-has that little issue with you-know-what

both same price