7970m Logging Thread, Games with Utilization Issues (Only post logs, NO questions please)

Lol, go from Ultra to Low in Saints Row 3 and be AMAZED by a 10FPS increase. Amaze yourself with a stunningly smooth 30FPS instead of 20FPS. The game is free this weekend on Steam. Go download it.

Now I know how some of you guys feel. I am lucky the games I play aren't affected THIS heavily. Complete bullshiit.

 

I managed to finish SR3 with the FPS, lol. It was very steady except under a couple situations so it felt like it was at least 30, lol. Using an FPS counter can ruin the fun.

 

Even with a supposed fix in the works from AMD, our 7970M GPU's still won't be able to match the Nvidia 680M counterpart competitor in quality of graphics visuals that come naturally with the Physx capabilities that Nvidia GPU's enjoy.
I saw that Youtube clip that Sheldorconqueror included within his post here, and the graphics qualities of the 680M with Physx make every scene that much better and more entertaining. You get more realistic graphics scenes with the 680m, as well as better speed, better FPS, better battery life, etc, which is something that an Enduro fix/patch for our 7970m's just wont cure.
It's really a terrible shame that Sager charges so much for a swap out for the 680m ($800), or I would have done this two months ago.

I hate to be a wet blanket here, but even with an Enduro patch that might come by the end of October, it still won't make our 7970m GPU's a side by side challenger to the 680m in all areas. It still won't have Physx, and that makes many, if not all games that much more visually enjoyable to watch as we play, because many popular games we play are written especially for Nvidia GPU's.

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I have always believed that the "light at the end of a tunnel" is an oncoming train...

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I have physx enabled on BL2. It's really not that big of a performance hit. Only on one occasion did it drop below 30, and that was only briefly. It's been closer to 35-60 most of the time. And it's not jumping from one spectrum to the other so the FPS doesn't feel choppy or inconsistent.

*resized images to 80% so won't have to scroll (as much)*

 

With/without the FPS counter it was obviously pretty choppy. Still, continue to play games no matter the FPS, as that is respectable. I personally cannot do it, but I used to be able to.

And about PhysX. While it may be cool, it is a feature specifically used to bring publicity to Nvidia. Any developer can make a physics engine built into the game utilize the GPU like PhysX does.

I saw a video comparison, and some things do look pretty cool with PhysX in Borderlands 2. My question: why didn't 2K just make their engine better so AMD can be utilized for these effects? Money, that is why.

Wait..ok I just looked up how PhysX is enabled for you Srikar. The effects are being offloaded to the processor instead of the GPU like with Nvidia. That should be ok since CPU usage shouldn't go past 50% too often in Borderlands 2.

Borderlands 2 - PhysX on AMD - YouTube

 

That's how PhysX works on any AMD system unless you have a dedicated Nvidia card for it. That, and for some reason, I didn't have to edit the .ini to allow the option. It let me adjust it in-game.

 

Agreed, Physx is primarily implemented in games to attract sales in my opinion.

 

Mafia II has excellent PhysX.

I'm going to try physx on high with Borderlands, see if I take too much of a hit in performance compared to it being on medium.

 

In Googling this, I have found that there are TWO different types of sets of PhysX that are used- hardware based (Nvidia) and software based (coded within game software).
From what I was able to ascertain, it seems like certain games (the minority of them) make use of the hardware-based (Nvidia) PhysX graphics features- of which only Nvidia GPU's can use, and then there's the software-based PhysX features that any GPU chip
(in our case- AMD) can use.
So, if what I am understanding is true, then all hope is not lost with getting SOME potential of PhysX use out of our AMD GPU's, as long as the game in question that we play has PhysX encoded within the game's software code?
Am I understanding this correctly?

Anyone's thoughts?

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No, you can enable PhysX in every game (at least that I've played). They all run off of the CPU if you do not have a dedicated Nvidia card.

 

Physx is just a marketing gimmic of Nividia to sell cards. Developers have never really embraced it (Nvidia pays the developers to use it). I mean its been around for years, and when you look at the list of games with Physx, it kinda speaks for itself.

 

How do you enable this? I ask, because of the games that I have played, I have seen nothing in the options menu that would allow the enabling of PhysX. If there is an option to "switch it on" so to speak within each game, then I have not been able to see it, unless it is only on the higher end games that people talk about and play frequently that I have not played yet.

(I play Bioshock I, II, Hard Reset, and just got Skyrim, unfortunately, which I cannot play because I have no idea of what to do on it, but that's another topic...)

***by the way, if anyone knows how to play Skyrim- Elder scrolls 5, please let me know, because I have NO IDEA of what to do at the start of the game when the Dragon is flying over the castle, and the 3 archers are shooting at it. I actually hate this game now after having it for only 2 weeks of not being able to do anything, or know what to do, and am thinking of tossing it in the garbage***


Sorry for the rant. Just venting some steam at paying $60 dollars for a game that I cannot play, and now don't like.
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Those games don't even have physx to enable, lol. It's an apparent graphics option you change next to all of the other options in the games. If it's grayed out, then it can more than likely be toggled in an ini file.

What I'm saying is AMD cards can run physx in physx-enabled games. It isn't just for Nvidia cards; Nvidia cards just run physx better as it runs off of the GPU so the game doesn't lag up as much.

Edit: might I suggest you play more linear games that don't require much... Thinking?

 

Lol, the start of the game is the most linear part and everything is scripted, you just follow that other dude who was going to be executed as well. Hate to say it, but good luck with the rest of the game if you can't get past the start..

 

Ok guys here are my testing results with Saints Row 3:

Driver: Stock Sager 8.951.6.0

CPU:

My i7-3610qm stays at a consistent 3.1GHz during gameplay. Check. Saints Row 3 can apparently use all 8 threads according to my data (but often uses 4-6). Check. Now the fun part:

A single thread would have an average 20% load, but the value fluctuates heavily. The main part is that a thread never hits 99%, and in fact, the maximum recorded single thread usage was 79.4%. The average of each thread starting from Core#0 Thread#0 in usage percentage follows: 38%, 20%, 14%, 11%, 24%, 9%, 33%, 3%. Overall CPU usage averaged at 20%, and the max recorded was 39.8%.

I was playing at ULTRA with MAXED OUT AA and AF for most of my time, but gradually made my way to the medium preset just to see if there were differences in FPS or CPU performance. I cannot wait until developers start utilizing the empty highways these monster threads offer.

Now for the 7970m:

Ultra preset with max AA and AF. Temperatures stay under 70C. Check. Utilization outside is 50% to 60%, frame rates outside from 20FPS to 30FPS, utilization inside 70% to 90%, frame rates inside from 40FPS to 55FPS.

In the end, it is OBVIOUS that Enduro is really causing massive performance losses. Frame rates outside should be at least 45, but they aren't. The CPU is being so underworked it actually makes me sad. It wants to do more, and it could probably take most of the duties the GPU has for it's own.

Here is a post I made at the Rage3d thread:

"Caveman I just thought of some thing.

So I did some Saints Row 3 tests. CPU usage averages at 20% usage (i7-3610qm) and the 7970m is worked from 50% to 60% outside (20 to 30 FPS) and 70% to 90% inside (40 to 55 FPS).

Remember how Chris at tomshardware said that AMD told him that the driver bug is keeping the hardware (7970m) from getting data fast enough? I think I get it now. Maybe the CPU really IS being bottlenecked by the Enduro bug, not able to send data as fast as it should be able to to the 7970m. I mean really, 20% CPU usage? The CPU sends data to the GPU to render, and that is a fact I hadn't realized until recently. When the GPU needs to work more, it means it is getting more instructions from the CPU. If it can't get those instructions fast enough, the GPU will go underutilized, and the frame rate plus the rate of time will fall. So, that would mean the 7970m to HD 4000 isn't the problem, but the i7-3610qm CPU to 7970m is, just as Chris said!

Inside buildings, where there are less moving objects and physics and crap, the CPU doesn't have to send as much data and thus the bug "ceiling" is not reached, or at least not broken too heavily. The bug "ceiling," (the point where the CPU will stop sending data at a fast enough rate due to the bug)" if my speculation is correct, will be removed in the October driver.

Now, why some games aren't affected? Because it is a software bug, and not a hardware limitation, and a bug won't necessarily affect ALL games. Skyrim runs fine, but before I patched the game, it ran TERRIBLY. And I mean the new patch doubled frame rates in many areas. The reason was due to a bug (fixed by Bethesda) that restrained the Sandy/Ivy bridge CPU from being utilized properly. Aha, booya!"

 

wow, in all honesty this is the best thought out post i've read in this forum. & well, i think you have solved the mystery of where the performance loss is coming from.

Its funny, i always wondered why there was lower utilization in throughout demanding processes in game.

i am glad to quote you as my first post.

 

I agree that there is some sort of bottleneck where data needs to be transferred from dGPU to iGPU, but i dont think CPU is the main cause of our "enduro issue".
at the bottom of this link bellow shows that CPU usage for SR3 is normally pretty low with a 4 thread CPU. Our CPUs are 8 thread, so expected CPU utilization should be even lower:

Saints Row 3 Benchmark – BenchmarK3D

also, kombustor and 3dmark06 GPU tests both have almost no reliance on CPU, but under-utilization issue still very much exists there.

 

F1 2012 plays on integrated graphics, but won't play at all when I switch it over to high performance in CCC

 

Yes, I can confirm the same problem. At first I tought its due to the 9.1.0.0 driver im using but after triyng the stock driver the game still wont launch on high performance. It runs fine on the integrated graphics..

 

So back to Borderlands 2. With physx on high, I was getting some really bad FPS in a couple of certain areas (15FPS at bloodshot stronghold and the highway behind it) and the differences between it and medium physx are minimal. It's like maybe a third less particles and cloth is no different. So, stick with it on low (best FPS at all times) or medium (5-15FPS difference depending on the areas).

 

Why are you trying to be so insulting here?
Your suggestion and remarks are not called for, and not wanted.

As a newbie to Skyrim, I didn't have any idea of how to play it, but I now do, as I just discovered and found out a method to get it to play without any prior game experience or help, thank you.

Edit: Might I suggest YOU take your insults somewhere...else?

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kar;8858063]Those games don't even have physx to enable, lol. It's an apparent graphics option you change next to all of the other options in the games. If it's grayed out, then it can more than likely be toggled in an ini file.

What I'm saying is AMD cards can run physx in physx-enabled games. It isn't just for Nvidia cards; Nvidia cards just run physx better as it runs off of the GPU so the game doesn't lag up as much.

Edit: might I suggest you play more linear games that don't require much... Thinking?[/QUOTE]

 

Since having NO past or prior experience nor help from anyone who has already played the game, I didn't realize some aspects of it, and I finally found out what I was looking for, and am now playing it.
Oh, and yes, after the opening cut-film sequence scene, there is no intuitiveness to know where to go or what to do next, but I found out on my own.
Unlike some other people here on this forum, I know that there IS the possibility of learning and discovering while doing something for the very first time, which is really why we are here in the first place with our Laptops- learning about gaming issues as it relates to Enduro, and exchanging info and ideas without trying to be rude and insulting.

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Except it tells you exactly what to do and exactly where to go.

 

Maybe next time he won't even reply... This is a forum, it's a place to discuss. Not a question-answer thingy. If you want that, you can try Gamefaq's answer section.

 

....chill out man. Like Srikar said, it tells you exactly where to go at the beginning. Plus if a big f*cking dragon attacks a village, are you going to wander around out in the open or look for the nearest (only accessible) bit of cover? I know which option I'd choose. This is the most linear part of the game is all I'm saying..

 

As with cut-scene videos that I have played in other games, I muted the sound while they were talking because I had no idea that in this case they might have said something useful, so I didn't hear what they had to say at that point.
When the game began with live action, I unmuted the sound, and started playing. I was unaware at the time of what was being said to would indicate what I was supposed to do, having never played this game before, so your assertions were way out of line, and not welcome.
You could have just as easily said that there were clues within their conversations with my character during the opening sequence that would have instructed me of what to at that moment, without being rude. There is nothing intuitive about what to do in that game, unlike most other games that I have played.
I asked a simple question, and wanted a helpful response, but you gave none.

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It's not a linear game. Muting dialog is pretty dumb on your part. Not our fault you screwed up and want to blame it on others.

 

Actually, I did that for quite awhile, and searched the entire village in vain for some kind of clue as to what to do next.
Without some kind of clue or visual indicator that I needed from the start to direct me, I had no idea of what to do, or where to go next, because I have never played the game before, nor seen it being played. It's hard to know what to do when you know absolutely nothing about the game.
I finally jumped to another area that I had not thought possible to jump to, and then things kind of started to fall into place.
The game is playing now, so I am good with it.

My apologies to those here about this segue into taking another momentary direction away from the discussion, but since you guys might have played the game, I felt it necessary to ask a question about a common and very popular PC game that you all probably have played before, and knew more about than I do, so I asked. ______________________________________________________

 

I know you are trying to be an A-hole here, as you have with other people here in this forum, but please try to withhold your rude comments, because they are not welcome here.
I never blamed anyone else. That is your limited assumption, based on ignorance. I simply asked a question about how to play the game, and you felt it necessary to make a rude and insulting remark that was way out of line. That's a 'YOU' problem, not a 'me' problem.
I came to this board to seek out knowledge about the GPU issues we are all having, and expect a level of courtesy and professionalism here, and what you provide is none of that.
If you don't like what I have to say, or the questions I ask, then you have a choice to ignore them. What you respond with is borderline childishness, and I ask that you grow up, and act like an adult, if that's even possible.

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I don't know where to begin. You muted the game? Why? Who even does that? It doesn't make any sense. Of course there's going to be something helpful in the intro, like there is in most games.

The whole point of Skyrim is that there is freedom to go where you want and do what you want. It is a free-roaming RPG. Except for the start. That is completely linear. So basically, you failed to get past the easiest part of the game due to your own ignorance in muting the volume...

Anyway back to the issue at hand.

 

If you find my very basic comments as rude, then perhaps the internet is not for you. :hi2:

 

Forget about that people , enjoy your game and life's goes on
To get back to the subject :
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/689729-driver-beta-enduro-5-5-leaked.html

 

Old, plus doesn't help Enduro any. :\ I'm thinking Enduro-specific drivers won't be out till maybe mid to late October.

 

Enduro 5.5 UI and drivers with native mobile support this week. Enduro utilization issue, I hope that driver will be leaked soon, rather than waiting til October.

 

I muted the opening cut scene, because I usually do this to the other games that I have played, due to their irrelevance with them in the past. Most other games that I have played that have had said opening cut scenes were not important in any way to the general outcome of the particular game, so I ignored it at the time.
I had no prior knowledge of it being useful or relevant in any way, but now I do, issue and problem solved.
As I have said, I had ZERO firsthand or prior knowledge of playing Skyrim, and I bought it due to what was told to me by Best Buy, and it being a first person-esque kind of game, so I came in completely out of dark on this one. You live and learn as you go, and the same is true here.

Thanks to those who ideas were of value, and no thanks to those who snarky,pissy, and worthless comments were of no value at all.

Yes, you're right- back to the issue at hand...
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Nah, been on the Internet for 17 years now, and I don't need any comments about it from you.
Perhaps it is YOU that need the help...?


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... It's just a game. Get over it. If you couldn't figure out the intro, then move on. Though it is odd since it's been on Steam's top selling game for over a year now, and the only Steam game that continues to have such a high price tag. Meaning, MILLIONS of people were not confused by the intro.

 

Hulawafu I have been dying to know if you have a source for "Anyway, very happy to hear new 12.9 beta this week and a fix for Enduro Oct. 1." or if you just misread an announcement. (quoting you from the Rage3D thread).

 

Nope,just misread the tweet.

 

Im planing on gettin a p370em with 7970m CF. A 680m SLI solution costs me about 1000 euro more. Its way to much for what will probably end up beeing the same performance, if we are to believe the new drivers on the horizon.

I heard that with a dual setup, there is no enduro anyways. Im hoping i'm making a good decision.

 

680M sli over 7970M crossfire would be completely bonkers, unless you got like tons of cash laying around

 

Dont be so harsh on transphasic, its true opening scenes dont usually do anything (although muting them is missing part of the fun of the game anyway..). Now they are more part of the game in many titles, so watch out. For example i almost got stuck on NFS the run getting out of the crushed car at the beggining! I figured it out but it wasnt expected at all and there were no clear indications of what was coming (after being crushed four times i got it...lol). Crysis 2 and witcher both have similar interactive scenes if i recall correctly.

I have read that there is no enduro in crossfire 7970, and that it runs great, so dont by any means go for the 680 sli....

About the coming drivers i expect some improvement, i will post some new findings about it tho (yeah i got my machine for a week now and have been testing its limits), that might bring more light on the issue even if it doesnt mean more hope of improvement.

cheers
Voz

 

That means that with crossfire, i will never get to use the GPU inside the 3920xm, will I ?
It will be always on, the 7970m, and erhaps by low utilisation the second gpu turned down.

And yah, i will be getting the 7970m cheaper than the normal cost, thats why 680m sli will cost me about 1000 euro more, and i thought maybe because of drivers and extra 2 gb of memory would be worth it, but 1000 euro is a lot of money for what may be the same performance with the AMD solution, and more than 2 gb in 1080p, is questionable.

 

Anyone else getting blue screens with Borderlands 2? It happens randomly and I know it's the 7970 due to the blue screen telling me it's the atimpag file. It's just so weird. Sometimes it happens when I'm in the middle of a firefight, others? When I'm staring blankly at a slot machine. One time it happened when I went afk to get something to eat, lol. And the times it happen are random too. It has happened within an hour, and it has happened after 5 hours. I'm completely stumped. And it's just BL2 that does it.

 

Hey all
Regardless of the enduro issues, seeing and reading about some of your 7970M's temps have got me really worried.
This is my temp playing Guild Wars 2:


I've opened the laptop to check the heatsink, check the seating and tightening screws that kinda stuff. Was gonna replace the paste while at it but didn't have any MX4 left so I ended up only cleaning that mess of a paste job that they did (I got the IC Diamond "upgrade" too, way to throw money away). I didn't clean everything of course, only the excess around the die and left a thin layer on top. Temp dropped to 90-95 instead of 93-100 like before, but that's still ridiculous. I'm at a lost as to what to do now. Is a full cleaning and repasting really gonna drop some 20 degrees?

Regarding Guild Wars 2, I run it with everything @ max settings. The game struggles around 30-40fps most of the time, and it feels slow and choppy. Lowering the settings actually lowers the frame rates, as low as 20-25fps.
Afterburner for me shows a CONSTANT 98-100% usage, but I just can't bring myself to believe there isn't some underutilization going on. There are brief moments and areas where the fps jumps up to 50+ and it's such an amazing smoothness but look around a little bit and things turn back to crap. This game absolutely should not be this demanding.

I'm sorry about the long post but I'm a bit overwhelmed with no so good feelings right now. Got my 9150 through Xotic over 2 months ago but I could only start using it 2 weeks ago.
ANY input would be appreciated guys.

 

I'm getting 85* in Borderlands 2. I'll load up Crysis 2 sometime today or tomorrow to see what I get in that. I didn't order the ICD "upgrade" either and I live in Texas with no central air and walls that aren't really insulated, so living on fans only lol. But yeah, that temperature does look ridiculous. What about your fan speed?

 

What do you suggest I use to check fan speed? I can tell by the sound though that fan's getting a workout. I don't have AC either but i'm on the east coast and it's been quite cool. I could download Crysis 2 tonight to have something to compare with your results.

 

I'm using the MSI fan speed OSD, but it's been at 0 ever since I turned it on. I haven't heard the fans kick on (or go higher?) so I'm not sure if it's working or not. Might try to see if I get different results with HWInfo64's monitor.

Edit: I have other games too so you don't have to go out and buy Crysis 2. I could try The Witcher 2, Saints Row 3, Max Payne 3, Darksiders II, Deus Ex: HR, LA Noire, etc.

Edit2: MSI Afterburner's fan speed is junk. Use HWInfo64's. It's showing mine at 35% right now in BL2.