AMD Radeon 6970M - ETA from Resellers?

So what is the way/process until final release?
Maybe:
AMD is building the card - in that case in MXM 3.0b - and then sends ES to the manufacturers, who will modify the "standard"-vBios and the BIOS of their machines to work perfectly together? That would be only software based. Or is the hardware modified, too?
Anyway, if Clevo is ready with some basic modifications, they send out some examples to the resellers like Eurocom - and what for? To test it a little bit more?
If AMD and Eurocom would work together, that would have gone another way than the above, what is hard to imagine, since the Subvendor in this case is stated as "Clevo"...

 

Yeah, I've seen Ben Hecks mods. They're nice, but from what I've seen they go for a ton of money and he puts a LOT of work into those. Yes, you can have a portable Xbox or PS3, but it's still a massive laptop and you'd be carrying that in addition to your regular laptop. Most games are console ports nowadays anyway... why not just get the PC version?

 

If it comes out 2nd week March that is great news. Cebit technology fair is happening next week in Europe (March 1), which will have many reveals most likely.
I would definitly snag one of these to save some money for the performance difference.

 

well......a lot of sellers in taiwan sell a kind of es(qs) laptop cpu and help you install it
if the es is same from retail version(like i7 980x es q4eg) call it qs: qualification sample
(q3fe a0 2.4g.........q3qp a0 3.07g.......q4eg b1 3.33g)
if the card are qs it will run good......with finalized bios

 

I got an answer from AMD, in German:
"Offiziell ist diese Karte noch nicht auf den Markt gebracht, dies muss aber nicht heissen, das Sie nicht schon eine "richtige" Karte haben, wahrscheinlich verkauft hawkforce die Karten einfach frueher, als "erlaubt". Wir werden es weiterleiten und danken Ihnen fuer Ihre Mitteilung."

Translation:
"Officially the card is not for sale on the market at this time, but this doesn´t mean you didn´t get a "right" card, probably Hawkforce is selling the card earlier than it is "allowed". We will forward it and thank you for your message."

 

I remember that Eurocom does circumvent Clevo with some of their custom modifications, which is why they have to cover themselves the first year's warranty as opposed to most of the other Clevo resellers. I might be wrong though.

 

Update on the 6970M situation!

Below is the official reply from Clevo:

At this time, Clevo has not finalized nor have a final ETA to when Clevo will release AMD Radeon 6970M Video cards to Clevos customers.

Any AMD Radeon 6970M cards being installed and sold on a Clevo unit are selling invalidated and unapproved engineering samples or unqualified to be used with Clevo hardware from 3rd party sources.

Use of these non-validated hardware will not receive any support from Clevo or Clevo authorized customers and warranty voided to Clevo hardware.


I hope this clarifies things a bit.

Thank You

 

Hmm so Eurocom is selling engineering samples.. not surprising considering their M.O.

I wonder what, if anything would happen if AMD and Clevo caught wind of this.

 

no problem..........if the es card goes wrong during warranty then who sold that should deal with it

 

Exactly what I expected to hear. This means the whole machine is voided, so the reseller or Eurocom is on the hook for all warranty and repair costs.

I've never seen it proven, that Eurocom actually does any modifications. They claim to have engineers, but they still release everything at the same time as the other Clevo retailers. You have any examples?

 

Thanks, good to hear another official source.
I am in communication with AMD and am very surprised that they reply that fast.
Now they want pictures of the cards, too and if it has a serial number, they want it, too...

 

Good stuff. Hopefully Eurocom receives their long deserved smack down.

 

I didn't say they do that much of Clevo unsanctioned modifications, but some examples would be some (claimed) BIOS changes and the modded heatsinks for D900F (HD5870 and 480M GTX):
ATI HD5870 video card Heatsink modified for D900F - eBay (item 110535397132 end time Mar-15-11 10:27:19 PDT)
Are these cards officially supported in D900F by Clevo or does any Sager reseller offer or stand by those heatsinks?

I would also wait for the AMD official answer though; not sure if Flextronics is censoring the direct relationship between AMD/ATI and Alienware either.

 

I'm curious how AMD/Clevo wouldn't have already known about this. Eurocom didn't exactly try to hide what they were doing.

 

but Eurocom is the few who have quadro 5000m and 3*8GB ddr3
is there other seller have 5000m & 3*8GB?

 

Yeah, they have it on paper. Like always.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking. Eurocom is one of the big 3 companies that imports directly from Clevo, so I would think that they have some kind of connections to get actual release versions of products early. This seems to be a case of them simply selling something before the release date. My guess is AMD called it like they saw it and Clevo attempted to dump the responsibility of it by accusing them of selling ES cards.

Did Tirenz ever get a look at the actual die to confirm if the chips are ES or not?

 

Opening it up will be the only way to truly know what's going on here, otherwise it's all mindless speculation and accusation

 

As I said earlier, I´m on the road and can´t take a look right now. Wednesday we will know more . Still hoping that the cards are not ES... would avoid a lot of frustration...

 

maybe 'that' release date is for retail sales. you don't really know how the corporate sales are being handled by all parties involved.
it is possible that tirenz got a piece of a corporate sale surplus.

 

What is all this whining and complaining if you don't even know if the 6970m are ES samples? Why would you write AMD before you even knew your cards are ES samples? Makes no sense, just sounds like you are more or less trying to get a vendor in trouble.

 

If they are selling ES's then the vendor deserves to get in trouble. It's idiotic of them to not follow the rules and go ahead and sell stuff they shouldn't be and then think they can get away with that kind of BS (if in fact they are selling ES's).

 

What kind of whining do you mean - I read here that all resellers said that the 6970m is not for sale right now, and since I DO have the 6970m I asked my reseller and wrote what he said here.
After being reassured that the 6970m is not for sale at this point, I asked AMD if there indeed is a deal with Eurocom that nobody seems to know and in case there is no such a deal maybe they could tell me if my cards are ES or not and they should know then that something weird is going on. No more, no less.

 

I think it is just that: Eurocom sold the cards in their configurations before they were "allowed" to do it, hence a PR problem for AMD and Clevo.

 

Well, I just like to know the truth, that´s all.
There are many possibilities:
a) Everything is all right; (btw I would prefer that!) -> AMD and Eurocom have some kind of a deal, ok, they left Clevo out, but if they give full warranty by themselves, it´s ok for the customer, I guess. And no one could say that they sell the card too early...
b) There is no deal and they are selling ES;
c) There is no deal, but they sell cards too early (no ES)

Since there are many people who are saying different things and it is not all about ES but maybe selling too early, there is something that should be figured out... no whining right now- ok, maybe just a little speculation... but that´s in the humans nature

 

pictures with the die, but I don't know what are those either ...
AMD?s Radeon HD 6970M : AMD's Mobility Radeon HD 6970 In CrossFire On Eurocom's Panther

 

Just seems weird that you are going to complain about getting a 6970m earlier than a lot of other people. I wouldn't complain unless I knew they were ES. If they are not ES then why make a big fuss. If anything be glad that you got the laptop with a 6970m earlier than other people instead of knocking the vendor. I don't think there is anyone else that would be complaining and writing AMD so long as they didn't get an ES version.

 

Let´s say it this way: It is as you are saying, but if it turns out I did get it before others and it was not supposed to be(not legal), it is called unfair competition- because other resellers are losing customers that way.
I am leading a movie theater myself and I would compare it this way: If there will be a new film out there in 2 weeks and the film distributor say you can presale tickets one week before and every other cinema does it too, it´s fair competition. But if one cinema breaks that rule and starts selling 1,5 weeks before, many customers will go to them, because they can get their tickets already. That´s just not all right and I see it this way in the case with the 6970m, too... and only AMD can say if it is "legal" or not. So asking them seems natural to me.

 

Why so defensive of Eurocom? What do you care about the guy calling around making sure he's got a warranty from AMD on his GPU, and making sure Eurocom is not breaking the rules/law? You seem to be making a big deal out of this. The guy hasn't been able to check his GPU yet, and doesn't feel like waiting to find out more about it and wants to make sure everything is legit. No big deal here.

As for getting a 6970M earlier, honestly, earlier or not, who wants an ES GPU when paying that much for a laptop? I would want a proper GPU with a proper warranty.

Kudos to him for trying to get to the bottom of this situation.

 

But he doesn't even know if his GPUs are ES. He should check them first. If they are not ES then it's not a problem for him from a consumer's perspective.

 

So long as your 6970m is not ES...

From a consumer's standpoint why would you be concerned about the legality unless you work for another vendor, or are in competition with Eurocom? You have done nothing wrong. Just check to see if the 6970m is an ES. If they are not then there really isn't cause for complaint unless you work for a vendor or are a vendor in compeition with Eurocom. If you don't feel comfortable checking to see if they are ES samples then ask to return the laptop perhaps.

I hope you do resolve your problem however and get to the bottom of this.

 

Good point, in that particular case, but then there is the case of Eurocom selling these GPU's before it should even be possible to, with no word of an exclusive deal with AMD.
That is a case of it's own, and should be looked into as there may be some legal issues that need to be dealt with by AMD if Eurocom is doing things it's not supposed to. Considering Eurocom's very checkered past, it wouldn't surprise me if they are doing something they shouldn't be.

 

I already pointed out that from a consumers point of view, yep, that´s it, but as I pointed out, too, I can not only see it this way - and I don´t think that I have to say "sorry" for that. Infact, even as a customer, I want to make a good deal but I want a legal deal and I want to hear the truth about it- and I want to trust the company. The first time in my life I paid 3000 Euro for a high-end laptop and I just want everything to be all right, including the deal.

 

How could they not be ES, KipCoo? But at this point, it doesn't matter. Even if they're not ES, Clevo still says the warranty is void, because the chips are unauthorized either way.

Why be concerned? Because Clevo washes their hands of any machine being sold with the 6970M, ES or not, and trusting Eurocom to cover all warranty costs is a scary proposition.

 

Clevo cannot pretend the warranty is void since Eurocom doesn't rely on it anyway; it is just PR with Clevo trying to alleviate the other resellers' feelings.

Myself I see this as a power struggle: probably Eurocom is the one company or the most important company that qualifies / tests these cards in the Clevo chassis before they go mainstream with all other resellers. For this reason they may feel entitled to sell these configurations ahead of the competition; it is therefore the direct relationship between Eurocom and Clevo what goes on this front: Eurocom forces Clevo's hand on this issue and Clevo may very well cut Eurocom off the reseller pipe but at the risk at loosing a lot of business.

Eurocom officially advertised Feb 01 as the launch day for 6970, therefore they don't do anything other than being consistent with their launch plans, which were derided from another angle on NBR anyway.

 

I get all of that. The only question lies with whether Eurocom is selling illegal chips.

I guess we should just postpone this conversation, until Tirenz opens up his machine.

 

Understand your perspective. For me the trust is in the product that I buy, not as to whether if it was released too soon by the reseller however. I do agree that a consumer shouldn't have to check to see if the gpus are ES. Some might not be comfortable doing that. Didn't you say Eurocom said the gpus are not ES however? I don't think you'd have trouble getting the warranty from Eurocom. They are a well known reseller.

And another note, the whole 1 year warranty on a $2000-$4000 dollar laptop is really poor. I wish Sager/Clevo laptops carried a longer warranty.

 

Don't you think that a vendor who plays fast and loose with their suppliers may be playing fast and loose with their customers?

If you can't explicitly trust your vendor, why would you spend a single dollar with them?

If vendor reputation or ethics don't matter, you'd be better off buying a bare-bones and doing your own integration. At least then you know what you are putting in your machine.

 

What one year warranty? Malibal and a ton of others have a standard 3 year labor/ 1 year parts warranty. Most laptop companies only have a 1 year /1 year, or maybe 2/2. I find that pretty good, since labor is usually pretty expensive. But just like anywhere else, they all allow you to extend that warranty as well, which I might end up doing for a 2/3 (and buying with my American Express makes it 3/4)

 

That is too much to assume. Eurocom could have excellent support and customer service for all we know. I've never bought from them, but I've heard good things from Eurocom and Gentech just from reading the boards so I think their reputation is good.

If consumers were so concerned about business ethics they wouldn't use a Microsoft OS...heck they might not even have a pc. Intel, Nvidia, AMD, Microsoft, etc...you can find dirt on all these companies.

 

You've got to be kidding. You obviously haven't been reading the boards good enough. http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/428769-fair-legal-business-practices.html. Most of us know how Eurocom rolls. I'm shocked that you are acting like you just got here yesterday considering you have over 400 posts here.

 

OMG. Please try to stay on topic, at least discussion regarding the 6970 instead of all this back and forth about eurocom that we have read so many times...

And please don't reply to this post

 

^Isolated issue however. That's the way it is with everything. Just because one person has a bad experience out of 100 or a 1000 doesn't mean a company is necessarily bad. For all we know the buyer could be dishonest, a competitor, etc. Hard to take reviews seriously over the internet. I bought my laptop used however, so I can't really say if any of these companies are good. Had the np8760 for about a year now and the laptop really has been a great performer. I can only vouch for Clevo as a quality brand, can't vouch for any resellers in particular.

 

His worry would be that if Clevo renounces their support, and Eurocom gets in enough trouble with AMD and Clevo over an actual contract breach from selling too early, they could suffer enough to not be able to cover their warranty themselves.

Eurocom isn't quite that small though so the likelihood of them folding in the next 2-3 years isn't that high but that would the the one reason he would be worried as a consumer...

 

Yeah, but the one who posted THIS could be EUROCOM, I could say, too .
As I said before, I´m running a cinema, that wasn´t just an example. Will never sell prof. PC, so don´t worry. And still hoping everything is all right... Wednesday I will know more...

 

It's not the whole laptop that is in question, it's just the 6970m. I just don't think Eurocom would have trouble replacing your 6970m if they are indeed the biggest Clevo vendor. Good luck though.

 

It's not an isolated issue, the more you look the more you will find quite a few others who've had similar issues with Eurocom, I myself have had similar issues with them. They don't have such a bad reputation from only one isolated issue.

Back to the topic, someone posted on the first page that another reseller Santech is also selling the 6970M as well, is this a sister company of Eurocom? or is this it's own company? if it's not a sister company, then maybe there is a deal between AMD, Santech and Eurocom to get retail 6970M's earlier than other resellers.

 

There wouldn't be enough money in the world to pay AMD to tick off all their other vendors by letting one or two release before the others (by a month or more). AMD is not stupid, and a move like that would be suicide for any business.

What possible incentive could a company like Eurocom give AMD to give all the other vendors a sour taste?

Final observation from me: Isn't it odd that you aren't seeing a ton of posts from vendors here? Could it be that the vast majority of the vendors who participate here have... Ethics? They all know if Eurocom is acting contrary to the vendor agreements. I respect them for not pointing fingers, but notice that no one is leaping to Eurocom's defense, either.

I won't comment more on this thread. I hope all works out for Tirenz, I think he's in a difficult position.

 

The only company that could afford to buy that kind of exclusivity lead is Dell. A single Clevo reseller doesn't have enough money to make AMD blink.

It's silly to even consider the validity of Eurocom's claim.

 

Well things are said that M17x R3 is about to be back on shelves. Let's see how that turns out.
BTW: from the review the 6970m is really strong. and the R3's are a lot like P170HM's