AMD Radeon 6970M - ETA from Resellers?

If it is something that Clevo should 'complain' it is the Eurocom's official launch date, e.g. February 1-st, and not the actual release of the cards in some configurations after that date.

They didn't sell those cards under the table, they have been saying that all along in the open, even if they have been ridiculed all this time.

Also, I do not think any serious company would officially advertise a public launch without having all the NDA, contract agreements and paperwork being in order, especially if they have high profile corporate customers that may act harsher than Tirenz.

 

The main issue here is still remaining if the 6970M card shipped is ES or not, people needs to stop looking at this issue or at Eurocom with one of their eyes covered. And start looking into the facts from past history.

Fact: Eurocom has never hit their release date in the past using official product, Fact: eurocom has always practiced using an extra early target date to screw with the users, and the only times they have hit this early target date is using ES parts or some not yet finalized products. while saying that they have moded and worked around the issue out of Intel / AMD / Clevo’s loop. I think this have been proven to be untrue many time as well.

Eurocom is only as big as to some users that keep one if not both of their eyes covered; to me they feel like an overinflated balloon ready to pop, as if they are so large why can’t they play by the rules and why can’t they meet an official deadline or even their own early targets by using officially released parts? Why mess with the mass with ES parts? It only shows that they are greedy that they are only in it for the money; business ethic comes much later if not last, Not really sure where they put their users.

Fact: other companies that has followed the same practice as eurocom just to name two PCMICROWORKS and Killernotebooks, both of these and others that follow the same business practice as eurocom in the past have all folded leaving their users with a bitter and sour taste that I think still remains at this time.

So I think there really isn’t much more to say here, until we find out next week if those 6970M cards are ES or Not.

 

Or...Tirenz already knows those cards are ES and he's trying to figure out what to do about it before informing the general public? I mean, even if you are traveling, how hard is it to find simple tools and 10 minutes? Not that he in anyway owes us an explanation or anything.

For many people, criticizing people who trade or knowingly own ES components is purely hypocritical. Especially if you build or benchmark a desktop. I was previously a member of a well-known and respected forum that protected its classifieds with a 100 post requirement simply for the fact that people routinely sold and bought ES chips. If a newcomer asked what ES meant, the standard explanation was "extra spicey", lol. This is not to say that engaging in this behavior is not wrong or illegal, it certainly is. I personally never bought anything like this, but was surprised to see how easy it was to obtain. How many samples do OEM's need to get in order to test? I've also never heard anyone say that they got in trouble for it or knew anyone who did. I always assumed the danger or risk was about as bad as ripping off a mattress tag. The only thing that sucks is that you don't get a final production version, and it could possibly be purposely crippled, or even flawed. Hence why I never thought seriously about buying any of that.

But in order to stay on topic with the off topic, Eurocom is trash and everyone knows it. For God's sake there's a sticky dedicated to the idea on this very forum.

With all due respect and no offense intended of course.

 

He's traveling...which my guess means he did not bring the beast with him...as it weighs nearly 12 lbs. If it were a business trip or some trip where he knew he wouldn't have much time to game.

 

Good point, I temporarily forgot that we were talking about an X7200. I would hate to leave that thing at home even if it did weigh as much as a cinder block.

 

Yep, that´s exactly the case
Do miss it though

 

Ok, back and here we go!

Model:

Heatsink:


The card overview:


The Chip (and what do you say )

 

ENG = engineering sample

bad deal.. from here i'd first notify AMD, see what they have to say, then Euro..

 

Would like to say I was surprised...

 

Yeah, it is an engineering sample..

So Eurocom did scam you directly, as they stated that it wasn't an Engineering sample outright.

Notify Hawkforce, and if they don't take care of this, then Eurocom.

 

Sent the pictures to AMD - as they wanted them, too.
Will post it when I get answer from AMD...
After that I will mail Hawkforce and ask what do to now, cause I am not willing to pay that much money for 2x ES...

 

Yeah, what I see is hawkforce and Eurocom going back and forth fighting over who takes responsibility.

Definitely let AMD know and hopefully get this resolved quickly.

 

Man that's horrible. Sorry for doubting you. I will definitely not by from Hawkforce. Did Hawkforce get them from Eurocom supposedly? Who takes responsibility?

 

Every communication I did only with Hawkforce. I wanted to buy a new notebook and Hawkforce has a good reputation here in germany.... so I ordered the X7200 with GTX 485m- and Hawkforce called me and said they were only available at the end of february. BUT he could get the 6970m CF for me which he would get from Eurocom directly.
I did that then and that was it basically - as said before, I talked to Hawkforce after reading this thread and they said "no, they are not ES, don´t listening to everything you read at NBR..."
So, now I really can´t wait to hear what he will answer me... but first, I want to get an answer from AMD and them saying it is an ES. Then there is no way to say the cards are no ES for Hawkforce/ Eurocom...

 

this is what i am most interested in. i hope they take action or something. maybe compensate you for being i concerned/ripped off customer..

 

AMD shouldn't take any responsibility..

Sending out engineering samples to test them out beforehand is typical business practice, it was Eurocom's fault for selling those cards as ES's are forbidden from being resold, at least that is the policy for Intel.

Either Hawkforce or Eurocom is going to pay dearly for this.

 

Be sure to post AMD's official statement as I also have an engineering sample 6970M.

 

In a X7200/ Eurocom, too?

 

Right now, MXM-upgrade also sells engineering samples.

 

No, I got the card from MXM-upgrade.com to test in my Alienware M17x.

 

I didn't say it was their fault he's just giving them proof of which of the resellers are misbehaving

 

Yeah, it's about time Eurocom get justice for shady business behavior..

 

That's Eurocom for ya. I'm not the least bit surprised by this, but you'd think after all the hot water they've gotten into over the last few years by threatening, stealing from, and lying to customers, they would learn their lesson, but nope.. Such a self destructive company, It's like these guys want to go to jail or get sued or something..

It'll be interesting to see what comes of this.

 

Yeah, as now AMD themselves have started to take action, it's interesting to see how this will turn out, as it is not some end user vs. Eurocom, but the actual corporate vs. "small" reseller.

 

Well you might get lucky and the ENG samples might last you 3-5 years anyway... ENG samples are sometimes cherry picked from early production so it might not be a bad deal...

 

That is true, Engineering samples could actually be better. I think Tirenz is concerned about the warranty however and I would be too. What a mess.

 

Wow, that's no good. Let's hope you get swift turnaround on getting a replacement or refund. I know we all hope that Eurocom gets its just comeuppance.

Anyone know AMD's policy on trading ES? I'm sure there has to be a legal agreement between Eurocom and AMD that has been breached.

 

Even if there is... I would think that Eurocom would be able to get around it by just simply not carrying AMD goods anymore... Would probably be hard to find a court with jurisdiction to enforce a fine between them and a breach of contract suit would require demonstration of loss, which would be virtually impossible in this case.

AMD has no leverage except to enforce no shipments to Eurocom, and they can't even control that Eurocom does not get their products aftermarket...

 

Well the best thing to do is create more awareness of Eurocom's bad business practices. One question is what if Hawkforce is just saying they got the laptop from Eurocom to avoid liability? That's another problem.

 

Sorry to hear the news, probably the worse move Eurocom could have done.

If it is less than 2 weeks since you have received the laptop you can send it back since you have bought it online. I think that the BGB (German Commerce Code) specifies that you need to send at least an email within that period without any hassle, then you can actually send it by post.

Some relevant link from where you can start some legal research:
§ 312d BGB Widerrufs- und Rückgaberecht bei Fernabsatzverträgen

----
Some translation from a similar contract here:

Return Policy

The right of return does not specifically have dealings with companies.

Return Policy

You can return your goods without giving a reason within two weeks
Return the goods back. The period begins with receipt of this notification in writing
(Eg by letter, e-mail), but not before receiving the goods to the consignee (in case of repeat
Supply of similar goods not before receipt of the first installment), and also does not fulfill
our obligations as per § 312c Section 2 BGB in association with § 1 Sections 1, 2 and 4 BGB-InfoV
and our obligations in accordance with § 312e Section 1 Clause 1 BGB in association with § 3 BGB Information Regulations. Only if not
shipped by parcel (eg bulky goods) you can be returned by
Revocation request in writing to explain. During this period it is sufficient to send the
Goods or the payment. In any case, the return will be at our expense and
Danger. The return or the return request must be sent to ...

Return results

In the case of effective return to the respective benefits received and
any benefits (eg interest) surrendered. In the case of a deterioration of the product
Call for compensation. This does not apply if the deterioration of the goods to their
Check - as they would have in a retail store - is due. Moreover,
to the obligation to pay compensation for a through proper utilization of the thing
prevent deterioration caused by the goods as your property
and remove anything that could affect the value. Obligations to reimburse
Payments must be made within 30 days. The period begins with the dispatch of
Product or the written request and for us to receive.

End of withdrawal

The right of return according to § 312 BGB d para 4 does not apply to distance contracts for the delivery
of goods that are produced according to customer specifications or clearly personalized
Needs are cut. The Rückgabrecht does not apply to distance contracts for the delivery
software if the delivered data carriers have been unsealed by the consumer.

 

Well, so far I only got an answer from AMD saying that the message/ pictures are forwarded and I´ll have to wait, but the operator wrote that "besides AMD I think that it looks like scam"...
So I´ll have to wait some more and see what happens.
Right now I want something like an official source that "ENG" means Engineering Sample on AMD cards, so that I can write Hawkforce and tell them I have prove that the cards are ES.
BTW, of course ES can be very good, but who knows? And I don´t know what if I want to sell the cards later, don´t know but I guess they won´t sell as good as a "right" card...?
If I am looking for a better card to upgrade my laptop and someone like mxm-upgrade sells ES and I know it, then it is my decision, but in that case I got a completely new laptop and thought it would be "all right" with official components...
I searched on Eurocoms site and found this:
http://web.eurocom.com/ec/ec_GetReleaseB(76)
At the bottom there is a phone number for "Eurocom Deutschland", and it is nearly the the same number as Hawkforce number and definitely the number I was called from when we did a phone call back then.
So they obviously work together and Hawkforce IS Eurocom "Germany"...
Right now I have another problem with the laptop, it doesn´t start on battery- no matter how long I push the power button. It runs on battery though if I start it with power in and plug it off.
I asked Hawkforce what do to about it and he says "it´s a common problem" with the machines and he can´t do anything. Might be a BIOS problem and he will try to get the attention of Clevo to it...
Jesus Christ, for the first time I spend so much money and nothing is as I expected- all my laptops before I got from Ebay and they had less problems then I have right now.
Will inform you as soon as I hear anything new...

 

Almost every review (NotebookJournal, NotebookCheck...) posted pictures of the ENG, and noted that they were reviewing engineering samples. That's all of the proof you need.

 

Thanks, yeah, but it is more than 2 weeks now.
3-4 weeks...
And I´m not that sure that the ES are that stable as they might if I had luck .
On Dirt 2 I get black screens - almost unplayable. (in other games it doesn´t seem so but I have to test a little bit more) And the WEI is another thing: It runs through every 20 times or so - all other times it hangs up at one video test. Don´t know if that is a driver problem that will be solved or if it has anything to do with the cards being ES...

 

ES could be good but at that amount of money I would not gamble, period.
Once you have official word from AMD that they are ES you should try RMA based on the cards being "defective" - since they are not conforming with what they sold, e.g. "production" parts.

 

Hi,

I spoke to John at Eurocom Canada HQ roughly two weeks ago regarding purchasing a Radeon HD 6970M (FYI, John also runs their ebay store). He offered to sell me an engineering sample, but noted that it would be best to hold out for a few weeks until they get their retail cards in stock. He also said these would be "Eurocom branded".

I recently called back. John read me parts of an internal email (skimmed through, he had just received the email) which stated the retail cards would be available next Monday for $575 Canadian plus shipping and tax. Shipping within Canada with UPS would be roughly $29; or roughly $9 via Canada Post Xpress mail. He mentioned again that the cards would be branded Eurocom. I asked what difference, if any, this would make. His response; none, except that it will say "Eurocom" on the board.

He continued reading the email aloud, which stated that Eurocom would be receiving 6990 engineering samples for testing and press (press release?) the same day as the 6970 retail cards.

 

I noticed that the ALienware M17x, has the option for 6970M card already, On their website it is only $175 more than the GTX 460M card, which seems to me like a good quality upgrade even when on a budget.

 

I agree
Except for the fact that GTX 460M and HD 6970M are roughly the same price to OEMs.

 

hmm, well then I wonder if a reseller will sell me a laptop without a card so I can just purchase the 6970M if it is similar in terms of OEM price. At that point though it depends how much the reseller will drop in price, and when the cards are available for purchase OEM.

 

A 6990? What is going on here? It's Eurocom though, so who knows...

Not true. The 460M is now less than $400 while the 6970M is $508.

 

Tirenz,

Please don’t allow yourself as a consumer to be mistreated by this bs “ha ha sucks to be you, deal with it” attitude Hawkforce / Eurocom is acting now to your issue. Taking care of you is the minimal promise they need to keep with you once they have gone outside of the Clevo loop and sold you the 6790M ES cards.

I don’t see how the battery issue you’re having is a common problem, as we don’t see other X7200 users posting on the same issue on the forums.

Yes it could be that this issue is related to BIOS not working with the ES ATi cards well, but this is the result of Hawkforce / Eurocom going outside of the Clevo loop so it’s their responsibility to take care of you. But not in anyway of this wait for it attitude.

Plus all the other issues you described do looks to be the result of the ES 6970M cards as well, they should be asap taking care of you by providing you fixes to all the issues you’re having or at least provide a time line in written when they will take care of all the issues your having, and if they miss this fix schedule they should either give you a 100% full refund or a 100% working x7200 with dual 480Ms without extra cost to you if in the end they can’t get your 6970m working as it should.

 

Oh man!!! $175 for that kinda performance!! Sign me up! I'll be saving $320 for that card!

I really hope its next week guys! This is making me giddy with excitement.

 

AMD could very well be setting all their dials to eleven this generation.

Just like the HD6490M wasn't a model number you'd see in the past but now it's in the new Macs.

 

Yeah, saving $320 for nearly the same performance, would be amazing. I'm pretty hyped now.

I say bring it. Remember back when we were saying AMD should release a killer 100W chip? It's coming full circle.

 

The 6990 is their next desktop chip, not laptop. It's a dual core GPU card that has a TDP of 300w (although supposedly a switch to get it to jump to 450w with a huge power increase).

AFAIK, it's not destined to be in mobile except possibly down the road as a much crippled card. I've never seen the dual core GPU's in mobile before due to power issues and heat.

 

Um the 6990 just got sent to Anandtech for review for desktop... Haven't heard from anywhere about a notebook version. That said, most of us with the 485 have already paid and our machines are getting built already so its too late to get the 6970 without sending back for a RMA...

Ah thats life

 

Eurocom has already stated that they're talking about a 6990 M. Whether this pans out will have to be seen.

 

Yeah, thats seems similiar to what I was told from Hawkforce:

@Techni: Thanks, yeah, I will do something. Just curious about what we will work out... One thing is clear: I will never deal with Hawkforce again after that. Not honest, in my opinion. Or he does believe everything Eurocom is telling him...

 

6990 is just a number AMD can throw around as they choose...a mobile card using it doesn't have to match the desktop cards.

Full Barts XT. :yes:

 

Oh this waiting game will never be over. dammit

 

6990M could be just an overclocked 6970M (like the 6970M is an overclocked 6950M). Would be nice is they used a desktop 6870 core, which would make it 10% faster than the 6850 core clock for clock.

Also, I hope that the Engineering samples could be flashed with the retail VBIOS, which I will try soon.