Anyone else disappointed?

Nope, your post is what made me think of it. I think that would be the most elegant, customer-centric and cost effective solution and the new revenue stream would be a bonus for Clevo. They could sell them to all kinds of customers, including MacBook owners. And, it should be something they could implement fairly quickly from design to production. No need to reinvent the wheel. The technology is already in place.

If it will take them a long time to develop, as a short term solution for affected customers, Clevo might be able to work a deal with Razer or PowerColor to issue $300 or $400 rebate certificates or gift cards good only for the purchase of a Razer Core or TUL Devil Box.

 

Kudos to everyone! @Meaker@Sager and @Tanner@XoticPC thank you for your customer service. Again, I don't know if there are channels in place to get this back to Clevo, but hopefully someone at Clevo is listening.

 

I've already linked our friends at Eurocom to this thread. They are listening and know the right people at Clevo to point them our way. I can't say what Clevo might do with the information... I have no idea. If @Prema has connections, he might also be able to get this in front of some folks with power to do the right thing.

 

I would rule out Razer 200%. They never partner up with other hardware brands. Let alone Clevo which is re branded by many of its competitors and goes against everything their Blade series aim for.

Powercolor might work, but they seem to be doing things at their own pace.

 

If it was a rebate or gift card arrangement they might. It would be money in their pockets, and I doubt they would care whose money... unless they are just stupid. Which is entirely possible looking at their pathetic jokebooks.

 

I look at it this way, by giving a rebate to us, we would be taking attention away from their systems.

 

Sort of, yeah. I know what you're saying. But, the Razer Core is just a means to an end. I have absolutely zero interest in their notebooks and other products. Wimpy and tacky garbage. A beast like the P870DM-G is what would make the Core worth having. I would not want a Razer turdbook period... hooking one up to a Core doesn't make it any less of a turdbook. Same applies to Alienware turdbooks... garbage in/garbage out. Poop will always be poop.

 

I think a rebate for 1st owners is the easiest and simplest way to go. It could likely get people back on board very quickly.

This is a win / win. New systems still need to be sold, and original 870D users still want to experience the D2/3, it's just as a matter of principle and burden won't.

I'd also like to see a statement of intentions with regards to upgradability of said systems.
Nothing legally binding but a vision for their DTR's logetivity, if any.

 

MSI have come through with a trade-in program, perhaps Clevo can do the same?

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...for-the-msi-rep-2.795226/page-3#post-10326270

We started a thread for GT72/GT80 owners to discuss the upgrades:

GT72/GT72S and GT80/GT80S Owners GPU Upgrade Discussion
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...0-gt80s-owners-gpu-upgrade-discussion.795236/

 

Don't leave out those of us who weren't original owners! It was still expensive, and I still had the expectation of having it for 3-5 years. Otherwise, great idea!

 

I havent seen MSI's trade in prices - are they any good? I recall a while back when Alienware was doing this and it was ridiculous.

 

I've never seen what I could view as a good trade-in program. Usually pennies on the dollar and much less than what you could get selling the machine outright.

 

Trade in programs seem more complicated than they need to be. Not to mention usually only apply to the US.

Just give the owners a fair discount off the next purchase and let them deal with selling it.

 

MSI would do well to make the cost/terms advantageous to the GT80/GT72 owners, to keep the good will going. We are losing out on the 2nd generation of GPU upgrade as well, so MSI please make this worth it for us all.

If we will be giving up our Windows 7/8.1 OS's for a laptop that has Windows 10, that's a definite downside for many of us.

If MSI can make it Windows 10 Pro so we can use our downgrade rights to install Windows 7/8.1, or even make Windows 7/8.1 an option, that would be awesome.

 

So Instead of MXM cards they are offering this...I'd bet MSI is not going to claim anything from now on & that's it, Doomed upgradeability / modularity DTR. Period. We are now dependent on them, and they could do anything in future, MSI replied just because a shizstorm was brewing and they had to keep it under check. Clevo didn't promise anything, they are also dead silent on the PR /Advertising, I hope something more constructive comes, else...no idea except to accept the fact that the market is shifting because of dumb BGA crowd and move on.

Feels very bad to get shafted with a $3-4K HW and no response to help out. nGreedia is too evil, they dropped MXM on purpose to rake the profits from the huge leap with the node shrink while AMD is just dead fish (Just go bankrupt AMD better for all...) MSI / Clevo won't agree on a similar design Idk why maybe nGreedia is having way too much power...

Many are not going to take hassle for Gen 1 Pascal with upgrades / mods which runs hot and ultra expensive MXM cards, EC mods, eDP, vBIOS etc, Some will remain but we don't have much options and are cornered already, majority of em those who want performance but can't go DT route are forced to the new machines which was intended by nGreedia, 1 shot 2 birds, carefully planned obsolescence what an execution by that filthy corp..

I'm just hoping Clevo should have some response, I really wished that new machine was 18" and that way It could have been much more future ready & wouldn't have this level of impact from 0he 870DM owners, Jesus !! C'mon, It's a twin of Pheonix and no upgrades, Not to mention the P7 class machines & their successors, abysmal move.

 

I gave the MSI rep some notes to take home to MSI HQ. Please jump and express your thoughts about proprietary filth. Clevo customers are not the only ones that got screwed. MSI customers got the same.

 

Not acceptable Fox. Simply releasing a compatible heatsink and power cable for a single 1080 would be a better choice, than a sucking eGPU with single graphics. (in addition also sell 1080 graphics at a reasonable price for first owners of P870DM). Upgrade to 1070 is not acceptable.
It's better with a single 1080 inside the laptop, than a single card in a eGPU!! A laptop should be portable... Not like a desktop. I use my Clevo P870 as a portable pc, not have to sitting with the desk 24/7/365!!

 

Here is another MSI thread talking about how evil it was what MSI and Clevo did with Pascal. We are not alone in our misery.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...pgrade-discussion.795236/page-8#post-10326466

 

BUt you need to look at the costs. Are you willing to spend $1200+ on the new card?

 

Bro. Do not forget that this thread... Is a matter of getting permission to upgrade our almost new but EOL machines (which it is not possible at this point). Those who do not want the upgrade ... Okay!! But those who would upgraded their machines anyway... Should been offered heatsink and power cable for a single 1080, and 1080 graphics at a reasonable price!! Now we are all screewed!!! But Clevo should push out upgrade option for those of us, who will upgrade. (Read the thread title - Anyone else disappointed?)
If this machine had been upgradable... You had to paid for the upgrade. At market price!! Heat Sink / power cable should have been free, because of the Clevo's major hardware change in the machine.

 

I like @|Meaker, who doesn't. But I heard him essentially say that it is cheaper to buy a new chassis, which is the same as saying sell the old chassis, at a loss I suspect. I say, sell the old 980 while they're still hot, since King John only recently just reminded everyone last week that the old GPU - once sold - helps offset the cost of the new one. Online auctions, going rate according to the old man in the desert -->

. From there, you need the how-to direct from Clevo, assurance that if you sell your 980 & recoup, that yes, you can get that pricey 1080 in there somehow as the reward. It ain't BGA: sell that Maxwell if/when things sound like they'll pan out

 

@Phoenix Thanks for making this thread, I have this massive beast that I thought was upgradeable, but with 2x 980m's it looks like as of now that is the best I will ever get and that pisses me off Sager/Clevo's upgradability was the WHOLE reason I dropped loads of money because it was an investment as in the future I would beable to upgrade and put a better GPU in....so its upsetting I can't do much upgrading except a few tweaking here and there...

 

True, but im one of the people who isnt willing to take a loss of upto $1000 after having owned the machine for less than 6 months. Another issue is that the existing 980 wont sell, because it wont fit in any other laptop other than the P870DM-G.
But to each his own i guess. Im just not spending another penny on this system. But i understand if other people are willing to upgrade it somehow.

 

If the machine has been upgradeable... Every damn person here had to pay market price for the upgrade!! This thread handle about that we now are screwed. Not what the 1080 will cost. Same as before!!

 

Hey, don't forget that the gaming laptop market has a big growth rate, now you wouldn't want upgradeable components to get in between ? You promise, you deliver. Even if, for me and me only, mxm gpu are so expensive that you're better off selling your old clevo + adding extra money to get a new laptop

 

I understand very well that you or other with the old P870 will not pay for a new graphics card. But the thread is about that we are all screewed!! For those who want to upgrade their almost new socket machine, but can't because of their **** faeces (We got served a very dirty Mickey) from Clevo

Edit: Clevo should offer upgrade kits for screwed P870DM owners.. Otherwise they lose faces. What they did will not be forgotten. Hope Clevo see the whole thread.

 

Paying 1200 USD is better than paying 3K USD for a barebone P870DM3

Also as you mentioned, it's not about the cost of the upgrade it's about the fact that we got screwed and have no choices not even a 1070 or 1060 GTX upgrade

 

Something also needs to be said for the cost in downtime swapping into a new machine.
Not only is it a massive inconvenience and expensive process. Many professionals pay extra to avoid sending in a machine for a new chassis.
Also, logistically. I just shipped off my new 1 month old 870 for a song to its new owner + $150 shipping ..if I buy and import a new system I pay another $150 on shipping + $150* import tax.

 

Some things I can think of:

1) Trade in program similar to MSI but definitely not where they only give us 50%, we should get a good amount back. If i spend $4,000 on a P870DM I expect at least $3,200 minimum back towards a new machine...

2) Upgrades...Our systems came with either 980m SLI or 980 right? Well they could give us

-Single 1080 (similar to 980) with the heatsink and power cable. [Obviously we would purchase this not for free, maybe trade in 980 + give cash?]

-SLI 1070 (similar to 980m sli mxm 3.0b) with 980m heatsink support.

No way! I do not want an eGPU as a solution to not being able to upgrade. My laptop is a laptop for a reason. I want full power no matter where I go. We can already apparently use a razer core right?

Yes but we've always paid a lot for MXM cards. A 980M was like $720 brand new whereas a desktop 970 could be had for $349. GTX 980 was $499 whereas 980 (notebook) was $1,300.

Yes it's the principal, we got screwed. $1,300 is also a lot better than selling the P870DM at a huge loss then buying a brand new P870DM3.

 

Having to be limited to 1070 or something less would suck. I'd rather throw in the towel than sit in second fiddle with zero chance of ever being the head instead of the tail. That's BS. Better to just live with yesterday's best than waste money on an upgrade that locks you in as a second rate loser. The 1070 option is not acceptable for benchers, just like 970M was not.

 

Everyone knows that Clevo almost have cheated us.., And 1080 SLI will never become a reality in the old P870DM. What do you mean is the best solution outside Clevo has an exchange for new machine program. Providing upgrade to a cheap Clevo <proprietary> Graphics amplifier or a complete upgrade package for single 1080 at a very reasonable price? With an eGPU You are tethered to your desk home!! And the laptop isn't portable anymore. We have to look for a solution,outside having to sell the almost new laptop.

 

This has turned into an interesting topic with some valid points, I might just wait and see who treats their customers better with this mess before I make another decision of what to purchase. I don't want to be out of the high end laptop world but at the same time I am not going to continue to throw money in the toilet either.

 

What I mean is with 200W 980 I would be a moron to spend any money on hardware to play games. Pascal upgrades are unnecessary fluff for gamer boys that own the best Maxwell had to offer and spending anything for upgrades would be stupid. An eGPU would give me something I could play around with for benching and get my geek on without having to sell what I have at a loss and spend a butt-load of money on a new Pascal 1080 SLI setup that I might leave me up the creek with no paddle if Clevo pulls the same stunt next year or the year after.

I just hope someone buys my laptop so I can move to desktops and be done with this nonsense. I'm not having fun anymore and when the fun stops happening continued participation is pointless. Participation with what I have is also pointless.

 

Yeah, probably the best solution for all. It is in any case pointless to sell for a loss and pay one more time for the upgrade to a new DM3 now. This motherboard in DM3 is EOL in about 5 months!! Start saving to a desktop and view the next stunt Clevo will do early autumn 2017.

 

So now i should sell my P870DM-G for waiting the new beast coming out with gtx pascal and upgradeable lier ? Waste of money =.=

 

Kabylake is coming soon, We might see Pascal Gen 2 and a DM4 with new MXM cards

 

Clevo should really chime in here and say something about their intentions about their machines and future MXM compatibility.
There's absolutely zero point other than maintenance having a locked down MXM unit.
I'm not sold that the future of upgradability lies solely with Nvidia wishes.

 

In addition to needing an entirely new one-off heat sink to retrofit 1080 to the chassis, I am told that the 1080 GPU is 8mm too large and has chassis contact interference. I am assuming this is the front crossbar area above the HDD bays. Apparently, the inner structure of the chassis is also made differently. It was initially thought only the palm rest was different (extra TB3 port) and the rest of the chassis was the same. It appears there are multiple changes and only the aesthetics remain the same. I think it is unlikely we will see Clevo release special heat sinks and a unique 1080 for a model that they killed in less than a year. I hope I am wrong, but I think the chances are slim to none because doing the right thing for us will become a financial liability for them. Unless they do yet another MXM design change that fits all machines, this would only represent a temporary stop gap measure and we could easily find ourselves back to square one with compatibility problems with the successor to 1080. Simply delaying the agony for one GPU generation does none of us much good in the grand scheme of things.

I agree... buying a new DM2/DM3 or even an MSI is going to be a crap shoot where the future is concerned. This is not a good time to be a laptop enthusiast. There is too much volatility to make buying any new machine a smart thing to do. There are too many unanswered questions for anyone to make smart choices. After getting blindsided the way this fiasco rolled out, I have zero confidence that any laptop manufacturer is going to do the right thing going forward. I don't care about the turdbook garbage. That BGA trash has never been relevant to enthusiasts and it never will be. Alienware, MSI and Clevo have all shown us that doing what is best for customers is a very low priority for them. Doing whatever makes them the most money regardless of where that leaves customers is where their heads and hearts are.

 

I guess Clevo isnt under any obligation to proide upgrability for their socketed laptop but its a bit underhanded to change the format like this.

Here is the thing though, M5500M is a 980 on a purely MXM format. So I am wondering if there are any quadros Pascal on MXM.

 

It's a high possibility that 1080 will be with us 2 years. Why not? Nvidia mean the new 1080 graphics have more than enough power for that time. Maybe Clevo knew it? Therefore all the changes now? Put it other way. I don't think we will see Pascal 2 in 2017. Desktop next!!

 

MSI screwed their customers in the same conspiracy as Clevo. Neither can be trusted. They've both shown us their cards (pun intended) and they have a losing hand as far as 100% of the MXM 3.0b notebook owners of the world are concerned.

Indeed. I would replace the word "best" with "only" at this point. They shafted every owner of an MXM 3.0b laptop on the face of the earth. Who in their right mind can ever truly give back their trust to any company that thought it would be OK to do such a dishonorable thing?

Now there are rumors of back-peddling to try to unscramble the egg with Pascal cards made to normal specs to pacify those that got shafted. Maybe they have recognized the error of their ways, but that reveals the evil intentions that drove decisions behind the form factor change. I shared my two cents on that a few minutes ago in another thread for those that haven't read about it.

That begs the question of what they are going to do next. Screw us all again when NVIDIA releases a successor to 1080, 1070 and 1060? Or, give new heat sinks to DM2/DM3 and MSI Titan owners next year when they can't upgrade their 2016 Pascal machines without new heat sinks?

They have painted themselves into a corner. In that corner there is a huge pile of hot, steamy feces. They're standing knee-deep in dung right now.

 

Clevo has EOLed many laptops after 6mo-1.5yrs fairly regularly, even though we could upgrade video cards for awhile (past one or two generations usually needing custom firmware). MSI usually does the same. Because of that, I was hopeful with the zm for one more card update. Now, they very well could have changed the design based on Volta with the hbm2 on the chip and the large size of that chip to be soldered onto the board (hence the offset so far on where the die currently is), trying to plan for future releases (benefit of the doubt). But, considering the grid does not have direct contact planned for the hbm2 (don't know if they have the spots where contact would be made ready for thermal pads), I believe a heatsink would have to be purchased.

With that said, it, I'm sure, was the disappointment of current owners, voiced loudly, that has caused any movement and the rumor of assisting DM on cards (I haven't seen confirmation, just rumors floated).

So, there may have been a tight spot for future proofing the dm2/3 while doing nothing for gen 1 owners. From there, the mess is the same and bogged down in **** with consumers...

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

The blue part doesn't matter that much, or didn't matter much until now. The red part is all that truly mattered. But, they took that away. That's not OK.

 

I do agree. I'm not saying it is right. I want to make that clear. What I am saying is this is their likely pattern of thought. I forgot who it was that compared the fury x die size and hbm to the mxm cards. It was so large that although it could fit, it would interfere with the holes for screws on the 3.0b cards. This is likely what necessitated the change on dm2/3 cards to account for this later. Even if you designed a compatible card while leaving room for the larger future design, you would wind up with the die in the wrong place on the heatsink even after making room by moving the mxm slots. Meanwhile, they should have designed two designs, planning on a limited compatibility run, from the start. That is something I agree with. Just wanted to give another perspective after stepping away from the argument a day or two...



Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

It's the cost of the cards that will have made them hesitant to design and offer it (remember there is no nice and easy reference design to use this time).

 

I'd like to vent a little, but I didn't want to clog up the owners threads.

I've been sitting back, watching all of this unfold...and I'm pissed off. I feel like I was sold a pile of crap. Clevo and their resellers can take their NDA'S and their BS excuses and shove them back where they pulled them out of in the first place.

Don't tell us you never promised anything. We all know you didnt make promises so that you couldn't be held accountable to them after you decided to screw us all over.

Your companies have had a longstanding practice of selling upgradable laptops for many, many years. Yet suddenly we're hearing "we never explicitly said these models will be upgradable", well I'm going to call BS. Since you are all so chicken***t to give us any ideas of what yall are planning for future models, ALL we have to base our purchasing on IS your past offerings.

For years I dreamed of being able to afford a Clevo, then recently I convinced my employer to buy one for me. That same employer has just put me in charge of sourcing our new workstations, and I wish I could still recommend Clevo et al. Now that I've seen their lack of quality control coupled with leaving us holding the bag on this upgradability fiasco, I think I'm done with them.

Maybe I'm mostly pissed off that I never had a working laptop from the beginning back in February. Try doing anything productive on a laptop that just shuts down in the middle of work. I diagnosed the problem and sent it in and they slapped a band-aid on it. Same problem. I sent it in again and they finally agree to the motherboard swap that should have been done in the first place. While it was being repaired, I asked and they were unwilling to upgrade me to the DM3 even after I offered to pay the difference.

Originally, I was going to build a desktop instead of buying the Clevo, god how I wished I had done that.

My only hope now is that my laptop, which is out of date, is finally fixed when I get it back on Monday.

 

Had I known there was going to be all of this volatility with Pascal back in April I would have used the money from selling my antique Alienwares to build a desktop as well. I never would have purchased this machine, nor would I have waited for the DM3. What just happened with Pascal and all of the mixed up GPU form factors seems like a bad omen of a very bleak future for notebooks. I don't like what I am seeing and, true or not, it feels like we were left in the dark intentionally. Had there been full disclosure of their intentions a year ago, I think that would have had a remarkable effect on notebook sales today. I think MSI and Clevo knew we wouldn't be happy about it and withheld information from their prospective customers for self-serving reasons.

A GPU refresh always used to be filled with energy and excitement. This is the first time I have ever seen a GPU refresh completely spoiled for millions by so much ludicrous BS. It is also the first time I have ever not cared about the newer/faster GPUs, but if I cannot benefit from it on my own terms the new tech is irrelevant to me. I have no intentions of buying a whole new computer for no reason except to get the latest and greatest GPU. I'd feel like a complete fool spending my money that way.

 

I honestly feel like I'm the only person who isn't completely pissed off at Clevo/NVIDIA. Yes, I'm not happy that I won't be able to upgrade my laptop GPUs and it does suck, but I'm still extremely pleased with the performance I'm getting thus far and honestly the performance I'm getting is more than enough for me. Hell, even my old Dell laptop from 10 years ago is still technically usable for gaming these days, and it wasn't even top of the line back then. By the time I would want to upgrade anything in a laptop based on how long I usually keep my laptops, I'd likely end up wanting to upgrade everything anyways because of how old and outdated everything else would be in comparison. It's frustrating, but I don't regret ever purchasing Clevo, probably because I already have an amazing desktop so it wasn't an either or scenario for me unlike a lot of people here. Plus, this is still way easier to replace failed parts than ****ty BGA, and performs way, way better than ****ty BGA anyways.

I hope Clevo/NVIDIA doesn't pull anything else like this in the future, though. Not many customers would be as forgiving as I can be, and Clevo is already niche enough that they shouldn't try to pull **** like this.

 

When you wake up tomorrow, with what I'm guessing is going to be a hell of a hangover, don't forget to come back here and edit your post.

 

Nah, I meant what I said. It definitely is ****ty what has happened to consumers, but I personally don't mind that much *yet*. Maybe in the future I will be more angry like the rest of you guys. Then again, maybe in the future, there will be some crazy hardware mods that do allow upgrading to Pascal, who knows.