Anyone else disappointed?

Anger leads to the dark side... It's not as much fun as being completely enthusiastic about a product. I want that feeling back.

 

One reality here is tech is always changing, I didn't get upset when Intel tried to force everyone into the dumba&& cartridge CPU package. I didn't get upset when we went from PCI to AGP to PCIe. So when the next gen GPU or CPU comes out, it is possible that the physical requirements for existing laptops will change too. So I won't get upset then either.

With that said, there are no guarantees on what Clevo will do with next gens of CPU and GPUs (Volta), but if they do develop a MXM kit, I think it shows the company cares about correcting a wrong of existing and possibly repeat customers. It was the indifference or what appeared to be arrogance what I didn't like. But again, to me a kit for existing P870DM owners when they don't have to make one, speaks volumes about their customer service.

Please note, this post is not meant to absolve Clevo of all sins, and still Is contingent based on rumor. So make of it what you will.

 

I never noticed NDA playing as big a role as it did this time round. It was far too much. I don't care about the card specifics. Just a harmless nod if we're able upgrade or not would have been a nice courtesy...considering we're all your customers at the end of the day FFS

Yeah I feel like there were a lot of witnesses watching us all get marched off into the gas chambers. Now look what's happened. We've got some of the biggest advocates leaving the scene - let's see how that works out for y'all.

Something pretty special needs to happen (if it's not too late already) for those people otherwise that was the last nail in the coffin. Those of you with a voice or in a position on taking this up a chain, the time to speak up was yesterday.

 

The main reason of me buying an expensive desktop replacement laptop and shelling out $6500 USD at the time, was for the fact that I am getting the fastest/baddest laptop and to be able to upgrade it in the future, it's like a long term investment. Now I know when things change drastically like CPU sockets or maybe newer RAM, I would hit a plateau but not so soon man, one generation of a GPU upgrade and our expensive laptops just 2 months ago which was the best thing since sliced bread, is now an unwanted paper weight that you'd rather just put in your closet as a backup as you'd lose out a lot when selling it. No One wants to buy yesterware unless they're on a tight budget, which means, I or you will have to sell it at a dirt cheap price then upgrade to the next big thing. That's for enthusiasts who always want to be on the top of the hardware chain obviously someone else might be totally fine with this laptop for the nextt 3 years as it's no slouch when gaming but hey, we are mostly enthusiasts here.

I cannot trust Clevo anymore and I am praying to God that some other alternative comes out from another company

 

Who could it be? Unable to see a different brand than Clevo... All other supply BGA and locked firmware. But hey.. They have 1080. Big no thanks bro.

 

yeah you're right, there is no other choice! Clevo can play dirty games with us as they please due to this.

 

Simple. Build a high end desktop. Or wait until next GPU launch. You can be screwed one more time. And Kabys Lake + chipset in a new motherboard will come out in less than five/six months.

 

Here we go, almost $2000 USD loss in less than 4 months on my laptop when you factor in the shipping that I would have to pay:

Eurocom SKY X9E

 

That is a nice laptop but I can't really see anyone dropping 5K on a previous gen GPU... The loss will most probably end up being more for you unfortunately...#****YOUMSIANDCLEVO

 

I do agree with you, but at the same time, I don't really think it's fair to call it a paperweight. It's still better than most desktops and it's still an extremely powerful laptop. It's still way more powerful than ****ty, locked BGA garbage and will still be extremely powerful for years and years.

 

No No No man, 6 month ago with the same price you can get 980Ti on desktop and you buy the beast laptop only 1 reason: MOBILITY, POWER and UPGRADEABLE!!!! for any work you planning, and CLEVO with Nvidia our face with 10 series. Now only 1800K$ you can get gtx 1070 run faster your gtx 980 25% and then the next year it will be 30-35% i betting with you. So it's mean you throwing your money out of window dude

 

It does suck that these amazing laptops can't be upgraded, but even knowing they can't be upgraded, they are still amazing and better than basically any other laptops out there.

 

No i mean a point here is anyone here buy the most powerfull laptop 6 month ago hopefully they can upgrade the GPU next 2 generation with CLEVO promise, and now they slap on our face like a baby so why i pay too much money for the lap cant upgrade? Just build the powerful desktop and get a middle laptop for work everything done.

 

This thread may have just killed my purchase of the DM3...

 

Well at least that will hurt Clevo where it hurts the most.
They haven't really done anything to actually inspire confidence in the minds of existing and future customers.

 

they sell their machines in bulk to resellers. I doubt that one or a few customer not buying their systems would stop them from treating them the way they did to us P870DM owners. Sometimes you get screwed, it's fine, it's a part of life, but when you get screwed within a couple of months of a 6K USD purchase, it really hurts man. I know the P870DM is a great machine but I am sure everyone of us owners has a regret inside him wanting more, I am not even interested in the overclockers / benching thread anymore since I know there is something out there that will run circles around my machine in GPU power even at stock. I cannot get over this man. Sorry if I'm acting like a spoiled brat.

 

Agreed. But in order to satisfy that want/need, im going back to desktops.
At least with the amount of money i save i can transport them around when the need be.

Heck since i already have 2 x 18 Core processors, all i have to spend is about $3500 for 128GB of RAM, Dual processor motherboard, 2 x Titan XP's. (after some corporate discounts)
And this will last me at least another 2 years.

 

Damn dude, and I thought I had & needed a lot of power.

 

I was waiting and hoping that pascal would be released on MXM 3.0B formfactor to upgrade my Alienwares, but now that it seems this will never be the case, I will be moving to desktops. The standard is dead, too many broken promises, and my wallet can't handle the ridiculousness of the situation. Back to desktops many of us will go, I speculate. It's been fun gents, RIP mobile gaming

 

Maybe for you and many other affected customers, but for people who planned/need to buy a new notebook anyway, mobile gaming is on a new high, offering literally the same performance as desktops (although not in terms of overclocking potential, granted). It definitely sucks hard for people hoping to upgrade their MXM cards.

 

Haha, love them large scale fluid sims

 

I am pissed and sad that they cut short the life of my P870DM-G... Let me share some of my thoughts... In no particular order...

I've had a great experience with MXM laptops... best experience I've had with my Dell M6700 that came with a low power ATI card... forgot the model. Because it was an MXM got replaced quickly with an 680m.... and an year later with an 780m. The Dell M6700 was a bit difficult to disassemble to get to the video card but with the help of the great Dell service manual managed just fine.

This great experience made me believe that having an MXM slot is a great way of extending the life of laptop and lower the costs of the ownership.. that's why I got my P870DM-G... also for it's power and mobility...

I hate selling my laptops because for 1 thing even if the machine looks good, are well taking care of and does not have signs of wear and tear (I take really good care of my things) no one really cares and I am not getting more money... and second... I loose so much money that I better keep them and use them as much as possible... I still have my first laptop... a Compaq... and it's still working

I love my P870DM-G, so far it's enough for my gaming needs but in 1-2 year time it will not be and unfortunately It sucks big tine that I will never be able to extend his life with an video card upgrade because I don't think Clevo is never gonna help us. To be honest I am not very surprised that we can't upgrade... the whole market heads to BGA or trying to herd us to BGA platform so we'll be forced to buy more. I don't see any point in having am MXM laptop and paying more for it if you can't know for sure that (at least) the next MXM card will fit in and work. I am not in for hardware mods because I don't have the money to burn on a super expensive piece of hardware that can fail. Yes... it's about the money... I can't afford loosing 1200$ and shell another 1200$ for another card if the first one fails for some reason.

From this moment on I must confess that I will not buy an laptop with MXM unless I will know for sure that IT DOES HAVE A FUTURE.

If they wanted to make a painful demonstration that MXM upgradability is dead... well... they probably succeeded.

Later edit :I am not even getting into the fact that I have in fact 2 Clevo laptops (signature) with socketed CPU's and MXM videocards...both bought this way for the sake of upgrability that will never happen.... so Imagine how I feel... 2 x sad, !#@ed, cheated, disappointed, frustrated..

 

you took the words out of my mouth. Noone can guarantee anything anymore in terms of upgrades so our money went for something that is not upgradeable, no more CPU upgrades and no GPU upgrades. I already have 64GB of 3000 MHz. RAM so that's it I guess for this laptop or maybe a better SSD in the future but that's about it.

 

Exactly, if you dont play the latest and greatest games as soon as they come out, no point in shelling out for a new machine atm.

 

yes there is a point, I like to have the best always. It's like people who drive a Corvette or a Ferrari but cruise at low speeds mostly. It's the fact that they have the power when they need it not that they need to be using it all the time.

 

It's worse than that though. It's like having a 1/4 mile Corvette that can't do an engine swap.

 

Yeah I feel the same mate. I've sold my Aorus X3 plus and bought Clevo P770ZM because I've heard a lot of reputation about Clevo's latpop's upgradability. However, it is not case for me. I do understand that my P770ZM can not be upgrade to GTX 1080 because it is a replacement of GTX980. However, the fact that I can not upgrade my graphics card to GTX 1070, or even 1060 is pretty disappointing.

 

Kaby Lake = 4.2/4.5 GHz Boost. = Maybe +- 5.1 GHz ALL damn, on ALL 4 cores 91→95W

Spoiler: KABY LAKE RUMORS

http://techfrag.com/2016/08/22/intel-kaby-lake/

 

thought the 1060's are not out yet, afaik they are going to be smaller and possibly different. There been any conclusive evidence I might have missed that proves they're not in the run to be the cards we're looking for ?

 

http://hwbench.com/vgas/geforce-gtx-1060-mobile-vs-radeon-rx-480 an an exmaple here, says 70W (usual 80W right?)

That would mean it would be a MXM 3,0B card, very effectively, I mean they would have little to no reason to keep the volt regs off the card and make it so much larger, unless they wanted to sell it at a 200-300$ price point or less...

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2868/geforce-gtx-1060

 

I think everyone would email Sager and Clevo and tell them what they think about all this, I know I will be messaging them. I spent so much time saving and saving for this laptop doing so much research I mean yes my laptop will be good for quite a long time but I wanted to be using this laptop and upgrading it far in the future and I thought that I was going to beable to do that as that is the history of what has happened in the past so its very upsetting to me because I can't make purchases like this, I had to save for YEARS!

 

One thing that I don't understand no matter how hard I try is why gimp the MXM upgrades because the upgrades were always very expensive... is not like they were doing us a favor and not making lots of money on the upgrade cards (or upgrade kits)... for God sake... an 1200$ for a 1080 card is double the price of a desktop card, a desktop card that is more complex (more components, better vrm, bigger board, 2 bios chips, multiple outputs), has a nice package that costs more money, has a hefty copper heatsink, fan(s), backplate and so on... Another aspect is that the upgrade MXM cards go down in price very little as time passes (since launch) and sometimes it does not come down at all.... the desktop cards do come down in price a lot... bottom line... overall Clevo is making a lot of money on the video cards... even if the cards are older, older generation...

I really don't understand the huge price difference because right now we aren't talking about different chips that are harder to manufacture because they have special laptop and power requirements and the yields are lower compared to the bigger desktop counterparts. I could probably understand a 30-35-40 even 50% price bump but not double the price of the card just because it's for a laptop.

I also don't understand why Clevo makes sucky bios-es... I could install 3 generations of mxm cards in my Dell 6700 with the default, old (rarely updated) bios and with Clevo I could not do anything, not a single update if it weren't for Prema... And I am talking here in general for all the Clevo laptops.... without Prema no upgrade would have been possible. So the question remains... why build laptops with MXM when in fact the laptop is crippled from the start... in the bios. Again, can't stress enough how important is Prema for us and how sucky the Clevo is.

Also I don't like the way the Clevo brand operates... they know that we don't have any real alternatives and sooner or later we'll be forced to buy the next laptop from them because the others are way behind... of course if we aim for a very powerful laptop.... so they ignore us thinking that this will go away eventually.... and for some it will. Unfortunately, right now, when it comes to desktop replacement Clevo is the only one that rules... and I don't see any brand on the horizon that has the potential to become a real Clevo alternative.

Clevo doesn't really care about us and I don't see them building an special 1080 upgrade card for P870DM-G... ever.

 

@Phoenix http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/in...y-lake-spotted-in-sisoft-sandra-database.html

 

This was last week http://techfrag.com/2016/08/22/intel-kaby-lake/
Guru3D was late to the party

 

To be completely honest I haven't been exited in quite a while (many years) when a new CPU was announced mostly because the performance gain was very low... 5%... maybe 8% with some overclocking... nothing to write home about. With most of the new cpu's a new motherboard was needed and since the laptop motherboards are rarely upgradable.... one thing leads to another and you found yourself that you need a new laptop The upside is that a good CPU can last a lot longer these days and can cope well with 2-3 generations of GPU's.

With the GPU's on the other hand, with each new generation the performance gain was at least 25% and in the GPU case the MXM was in theory an great option for us
The sad thing is no brand really took care of us, providing affordable upgrade kits, proper bios support.
We managed to improvise, test, risk, share information and help each other to make it work... but not for a second, in the past 5-7 years I was under the impression that the big companies are really interested to promote laptop upgradability.

 

don't do that please, they will block the domains you are on and then people from gmail, hotmail, msn, etc.. won't be able to send mail anymore.

 

it's funny, you know, because of how bad NVIDIA screwed you guys over laptop sales have seen a 30% increase in sales. Like, tell me they do NOT know what they are doing...

 

The post is a little vague.

Do you know what kind of laptop sales? BGA garbage for school work? Gaming laptops? How are Clevo laptops faring?

 

Oh I have no references for that, I'm just saying crap. I was referring to something i saw/read, suggesting NVidia has seen a 30% increase in sales or something somewhere, it wasn't too specific, I just tailored it.

 

You're not wrong, they posted that on the day Pascal Mobile was released, i.e. when the NDA was lifted. 30% increase of mobile nvidia gpu sales, if I remember correctly. People are free to find it in the closed Pascal rumor thread at the Gaming and Software section of NBR.

 

The worst part is that Clevo knew this right from the beginning, nvidia *screwing* us wasn't enough...taking into account the 980N, Clevo could have left the proper space between mxm slots already, further *screwing* us by moving the core away from the mxm slot and changing PCB dimensions.
MSI's 1080 proves this, not only the core is closer to the mxm slot like 980N (not the exact same spot) but it's also shorter compared to Clevo's 1080...and guess what? beefier too.

Basically spending more money deliberately *screwing* us...not very wise considering how many AW owners are jumping ship to find out Clevo's plans for a disposable socketed flagship, DM2/3 are not Volta upgradable...but we should not dare to disturb the hype.

3x

 

Love the meme, but that article is from *today*, the news might be "old", but that's just the rumor mill honing the product

Give @Papusan a break, it's gonna start frosting up there pretty quick now...

 

Do you have real hard evidence for this statement? I don't know if Clevo's version of the Volta GPU will work or not. Depending on how much of the info here on NBR is making back to Clevo, who can say for certain.

 

OK. That may be true, but that doesn't mean Clevo's sales are necessarily Up or Down. There's nothing that can be inferred from that statement which reflects on the number of new P*DM2/P*DM3 units sold.

 

Do you know that as fact or is that simply heresy? I understand the anger/disappointment in this thread but I feel no matter what Clevo would have done, people were going to be angry.

Someone made a point, the cost of an MXM upgrade is double the price of a DT card. So if Clevo allowed upgrades on the P870DM-G, would you really want to spend 1200 for a single 1080 card? What if you wanted 1080 SLI, that's 2400!

The reality is Clevo knows the makeup of its consumer demographic. Clevo knows the consumers are willing to spend 2.5 to 5 thousand on its products. They also know a good majority are willing to spend money on upgrades. So what does almost all for-profit businesses do with that knowledge? They push their consumers. They see what they can and can't do.

The only way they can be deterred from this behavior is to hurt their bottomline. They have already lost me. I was planning on getting a DM3 and now I have a lovely monster configured by a respected member of this forum. At the end of the day, you and others on this forum can have an impact. Gather together and with one voice, tell Clevo and Nvidia you will not stand for their B.S.

 

Indeed, this 30% claim has nothing to do with Clevo per se, it was published by Nvidia and probably refers to its total sales volume of mobile GPUs.

 

Yes, we agree. Was pointing out the 30% comment may or may not be relevant to the actual numbers for the P*DM2/P*DM3. The original comment is off because it was Clevo's decision to change the design of the GPU, but the 30% increase of sales comment was made by NVIDIA. The two items might be independent of each other and have no relationship.

 

A Quantum Leap for Notebooks: GeForce GTX 10-Series GPUs Come to Fastest-Growing Gaming Platform
Monday, August 15, 2016
http://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/a...-gpus-come-to-fastest-growing-gaming-platform

(1) According to DFC Intelligence, gaming notebooks are the fastest-growing gaming platform in the world, with an annual increase of more than 30 percent. In comparison, Xbox One and PlayStation 4 each had projected growth of negative 4 percent and positive 4 percent, respectively.

And, found this, it looks like AMD is actually gaining marketshare against Nvidia, their low end move is working...

AMD Takes Graphics Share From Nvidia For The Fourth Consecutive Quarter
http://wccftech.com/amd-takes-graphics-share-nvidia-fourth-consecutive-quarter/