BGA Venting Thread ;)

Probably too many factors to really do a proper comparison. My guess is most if not all BGA 1070's will have lower power limits making them perform worse regardless of cooling (like if they were using the exact same compound and heatsink)

 

It would be interesting to test this hypothesis. The MXM GPUs are not generic - each OEM can do what they want.

If all this is set in the vBIOS then the point is moot. Once Prema BIOS is available you should be able to tune the GPU to get good performance.

The cooling is independent of this - I don't know why you would use a different cooling solution for an MXM GPU vs the same BGA GPU. The chips are the same.

EDIT: a good comparison would be the 17L13 and P775DM2 vs the P650RS since they are all 15" and roughly the same size and weight.

 

theres really no point of looking into bga systems and their performance. bga = soldered = thin piece of trash = small heatsink = overheat. you will NOT find a powerful heatsink in BGA laptops unless that laptop is at least 2 inches thick, gonna happen? i think not.

further more due to overheating issue with smaller heatsink in bga platform they will be forced to reduce heat means lower frequency, or current/voltage throttle to lower output power consumption so they can cool it off, all of these stuff is related.

buy bga? means buy crippled hardware, not your money worth, period.

 

I'm not making a case for buying BGA, believe me!

But I think the strong argument is for the CPU. The BGA CPUs are bad for the reason you mention - small and thin means lousy cooling - but they are also inferior chips.

The BGA GPU is (AFAIK) the same chipset. The gain from MXM is cheaper cost for GPU replacement.

The 16L13 is less than 0.4" thicker than my P650RS and is roughly the same weight. It is quite possible that it has much better cooling than the P650RS (I know it has separate heatsink for CPU and GPU). The P775DM2-G is about 1lb heavier than my P650RS - perhaps that is going into the heat sinks

Really a GPU performance comparison between these three would be quite fair.

But I would be much happier if the MXM GPUs were at least standard. The customization of these cards to the laptop reeks of BGA mentality...

 

if u want something with good cooling on the mobile GPU 1080, u just have to see gt83vr's GPU heatsink, those are beefy and attractive, its a shame clevo cant do the same, i loved their HEDT CPU heatsink though, 2 fans, thats the bomb.

 

Hah! Yes, that is a beast, but it is also a shame! That expensive and big without socketed parts???

One day I hope to have a P870, but that may take longer than I'd like...

 

It has MXM GPUs.

 

I should have checked if you were interested in mine, it sold for well below what I think it should have, but it is what it is. I'm not going to hang on to a system longer thinking it will become MORE valuable lol.

I'm sure you are aware but for other's benefit, it does not have socketed CPU. That hurts the overall performance because as I've already seen, even on a stock 6700K the 1080sli can be held back by the CPU.

That was what basically killed the GT83 for me when I was looking. Not worth taking that loss for more money and less performance, less screen, even less portability.

 

Wow, I was wondering when the 6820HK would show it's weakness to gamers. Looks an SLI with 1080's will do it!

I am trying to do a pricecheck on my P650RS because I am thinking about getting P870DM3 of your sig (with one 1080). But I'm not sure I can swing it. I may have to enjoy my BGA system longer.

 

I usually can expect to get about 50% of new pricing for a less than a year old machine. Sometimes I get 2/3 or so just depends on the market and how bad someone wants it, and how quickly it sells. For me personally, I would rather it sell quickly for a little less, than hold out for months just on the possibility of getting more. For me time = money.

I see people posting systems for maybe 10%-20% below new which is silly IMO. Most of us would much rather pay new pricing and get a full warranty and no risk of a 2nd hand lemon or other complications buying used. Just like a car, I'd rather pick out the color and options myself than get what someone else wanted.

 

yea, a lot of these people dont really understand it and try to sell almost as new priced, but since its used theres so much stuff could have hapened and they dont tell you that.

 

The good news is HIDevolution said they would extend my 2 year warranty to anyone who buys the system from me even if I keep some of the parts. I was going to keep the OS, disk and ram. I will have to see how I can do - I may not be selling for a while. The wife is talking sense into me lol =P

 

One of many reasons I choose to not get married again lol

 

I will probably get tarred and feathered for saying this here, but I still think you have the better machine for your needs. The 6820HK + GTX 1070 offers good performance for its weight and price, and you may be able to get even more out of it once the Prema bios is released.

 

That put a smile on my face! I have attempted to put this opinion forward carefully couched in caveats (now there's an alliteration), but the BGA fire fighters are very sharp and almost immediately douse those dissenting views in a torrent of LGA evangelism. =D

I am overall quite happy with my machine! The engineer in me really likes the idea of a socketed system with higher performance components, so it may take another generation or two and I would upgrade to a higher performance GPU.

 

casual performance yea it is enough its similar to those classic sandy CPU 2820QM etc

 

There is only one real LGA alternative to the P650 and that is the 16L13. They are about the same size and weight. The P775 is not as appealing. Neither is worth upgrading to now from a P650.

But if I upgrade to LGA, I want to upgrade the GPU and the P870 looks like the way to go. It would increase performance by a lot but increase the price by a lot as well while doubling the size and weight. It would be fun to try a 3K @ 120Hz 17" screen with a 1080.

But I'm not sure I'm ready for that kinf of change quite yet TBH. I like the form factor of the P650 for now.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

I posted this in the Clevo OC lounge, but I figured this would be a better place:

 

Meh, for me I would rather have socketed both CPU & GPU. No reason to go half way and compromise CPU or GPU. All or nothin for me

 

But at least a non-MXM GPU doesn't have performance drawbacks compared to their MXM peers, unlike a BGA CPU versus a socketed CPU. At any rate, even in the past when we had rPGA, socketed CPUs + BGA GPU was a very common configuration. For example, the laptop in my signature.

 

I can only speak of all the systems I have had personally, but all my BGA GPU's performed well below any MXM one. Usually due to temps and power throttling issues.

 

An exciting new development from HIDevolution (contact: @Donald@HIDevolution).

You can now get the most powerful 15" laptop available with delidding and lottery binning services. Nice!

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/evoc-16l-g-1080-15-6-owners-lounge.800735/

A similar unit is under review by @Mr. Fox - I can't wait to see the results!

I'm really curious about the build quality and cooling. I would love to travel with something like this.

 

I've been mulling over the idea of trading up my laptop to the HID EVOC 16L-G-1080 (a.k.a. Eurocom F5 w gtx1080), but it is a difficult dilemma.

The reasons to trade up are:
- Removing myself from the BGA demographic
- Significant performance bump:
From a 6820HK to a i7700K (delidded)
From a BGA GTX 1070 to a XMX GTX 1080
- A generally better laptop in terms of maintainability and longevity

The reasons not to upgrade:
- At least $1500 more money (if I get a decent price for my P650RS-G)
- I actually *like* my P650RS-G
- Slightly thicker laptop
- Less battery life (though I don't really care)

My gut feeling is to wait it out at least another generation. It difficult because the 16L13 is such an awesome little beast of a machine.

 

I think from a purely monetary reason it's not really practical. Especially given the P650R series is now the "old" one.

The 120hz panel also doesn't appear to support G-Sync. BGA or LGA, I think we can all agree 120hz is better in every way and anything less is wasted on even a GTX1070, nevermind the 1080.

 

I think the display technology is really what I want to wait for. I would like to see a good 120Hz 4K screen that is not pentile (and ideally not "matte" though that is asking for too much).

 

120hz 4K probably won't appear for a while as 4K and 120hz are functionally separate features for most users. 4K crowd is usually for content creators who don't need 120hz and 120hz is for gamers who probably can't drive 4K yet.

As far as non-pentile I'm not sure it completely matters at such a high PPI. Particularly since Pentile is used for OLED screens which I'd much prefer (and perfect candidates for high-speed gaming panels due to almost instantaneous pixel response times). Despite what everyone thinks, Pentile still retains a each RGB sub-pixel (with added W nowadays). The original complaints were due to lower pixel density when OLED first appeared with 720p resolutions.

On a side-note:
What is SUPER interesting and likely worthy of it 's own thread is this new 4K PSR2 Display TCON from ParadeTech (responsible for the large majority of G-Sync Mobile capable TCons):
https://www.paradetech.com/products/displayport-lcd-timing-controller-products/dp696/

Specifically the line:

Supports VESA Adaptive-Sync, Free Sync, and G-Sync

This would imply that all 3 are functionally compatible (as I long suspected) and from the specific add of "G-Sync", being a proprietary tech, might mean all 3 might begin playing nice in the very near future. Particularly things like Optimus machines retaining variable refresh even when the iGPU is used.

 

@Stooj
I won't be in the market for a new laptop for a while so I can wait.

I would be a lot more excited by a leap in laptop display technology at this point than anything else.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

This applies also obvious Intel. As this becomes BGA chips binned

"The low-end chips will also help keep AMD's chip volume active and meet supply agreements. AMD has an agreement with GlobalFoundries to manufacture a certain number of chips each year."

"Low-end chips are also important to manufacturing. They help amortize manufacturing costs and provide a market for chips with minor defects. It's fairly common for chips to get defects during manufacturing, and those are repackaged into low-end parts. That helps reduce inventory and produces revenue from those chips."

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3167...mediate-plan-to-purge-its-other-pc-chips.html

 

I definitely like the competitive market a socketed system supports. Being able to optimize the most crucial components of a system separately (ram/disk/cpu/gpu) is important. The price point and performance for each of those components varies a fair amount as it is.

Having said that, I'm not sure the MXM GPUs have quite the success the LGA CPUs are having. The market model doesn't work the same way without generic cards that can work in any laptop.

 

No more 2x330w setup

 

Yeah, better with 2x780w setup

 

@skandal, In case you or anyone else missed it. A more in depth look here - http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...w-notebook-ac-adapter-clevo-msi-ready.801145/

 

To bad Eurocom didn't send @Mr. Fox a 2nd unit! He already has the 2x connector.

 

That would be cool for shock value, but using two would kind of defeat the main reason I am happy for the 780W AC adapter. I love half as much bulk and half as many cords to deal with.

 

I believe the 780W can withstand about 900W or so, correct me if I'm wrong so you are fine with one..

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

 

Dellienwares explanation of how BGA hardware should be used. Newer ever use your BGA i7 with high performance in Windoze power plan. Always use balanced power mode or you risk tha your precious BGA i7 can and will overheating!! This isa very good advice from the Dellienware support(They know how you should run th hardware if you have a "high performance" gaming laptop). @Phoenix @TBoneSan @ajc9988 @Mr. Fox @hmscott @Ashtrix @Johnksss@iBUYPOWER @bloodhawk @D2 Ultima @iunlock +++

 

Yeah, Dell advice when they are floundering trying to keep people from sending all their AW laptops back to fix the heatsink / paste to reduce temperatures doesn't count.

Dell's trying everything aren't they

 

Lmfao! Not my fault they have to neuter a product for "proper" functioning. Saw on Facebook they paid for a survey asking whether people would consider purchasing an alienware. We all know how I voted, being such a fan boy of clipped hardware and such!!!

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

They can their stuff Strange that they did not recommended the owners of these gaming laptops to disable Turbo boost. Perhaps this nice trick is not possible in their firmaware? Aka Less heat, more happy customers and almost no repairs/RMA. A BIG win win for both

 

You do realise this is not a socket problem? It's their desperate attempt to shave off weight and thickness, designing an underpowered cooling system. Laptop CPUs are 45W, Clevo is able to cool down a 91W CPU just fine.

 

It's part of their near enough is good enough credo- As long as it's quiet and thin, to hell with cool temps. These rice-burner turd books are still yet to topple their own machines from 2011 when they actually used quality parts.

 

K time for a new NBR Weekly~ Razer Edition for BGA~
Threw this together super fast so screw the quality lol, also reads RIGHT TO REFT.



@Mr. Fox @HTWingNut @D2 Ultima @Papusan @Mobius 1 and whoever else forgot lol. @TBoneSan

 

Love it

 

exactly

 

@TBoneSan @Ashtrix @iunlock @Galm read up for the picture hehe

 

Hahaha that's awesome! You have some serious talent there!

+1 Rep @LunaP

 

Lol it was a quick draft in like less than an hour haha, not worth the time for quality since Razer doesn't bother either, so thought it wsa befitting haha. Thanks though!
I've done a few in the past on here too, just not very often, usually when something big picks up I'll summarize it in a strip.

 

Missed you LunaP!

Great comic.

If it helps me get laid, hell I'll buy two for twice the price!

 

@LunaP Very nice. More of this Razer isn't the only BGA trash. You have a lot of brand to take of... If you want make more comic stripes +rep

 

haha, and yeah haven't seen u around on here much though I'm all over the place myself.

I posted here cuz D2 told me to, else in razer I might have gotten an infraction I guess?

I did one like 7 moths ago I think? For alienware/dell iirc but I'm always down for hyping things up in art if possible, just keep me in the loop on things. (Right to left as well.)