BGA Venting Thread ;)

How many dislikes can this post get?

 

Well then... Not mine, but awesome nonetheless XD

 

This pitcure, but replace play video games with benchmark lol

 

Who knows how many of us need this video?!

 

Dude, this is the BGA venting thread, not 9gag.

 

The last post showing BGA hardware. A phone is exactly the correct tech you put in the soldered trash

Maybe edit the posts and put everything in one

Edit. I put it HERE

 

Sorry, I don't mean any harm, just lighten up the mood!

 

Try to edit your posts together rather than spreading them out like that

Also the mother motherboards would be paying homage to the older boards like the NF7-s

 

I definitely will too!

A long time ago I would spend quite a bit money on DTR laptops and then I swore them off completely when I started building my own desktops. Stepping back into the "gaming laptop" world has been very disorienting and the trade off between portability and complete build freedom is a bitter pill.

I have noticed a funny psychology about purchasing though - it really is a lot like voting. As the owner and user I tend to see mostly the good in my BGA laptop in spite of moral and ethical disappointments.

On a similar note, I was just reading that voters tend to be the same way: for the most part republicans who voted for Nixon did not tend to back down from supporting Nixon and democrats who voted for Bill Clinton did not tend to back down from support Bill Clinton during the height of each of their scandals. There is something about voting that makes it hard to completely change or mind about someone or something.

Now I'm not saying my laptop is burdened by corruption and scandal (um maybe every BGA laptop actually is), but it is a BGA system that lands squarely in a sub-optimal place for anyone trying to keep hope alive for LGA/MXM systems or trying to maximize the amount of power you can fit in a laptop formfactor.

But it's too late for me, I voted. It's people who haven't voted yet you really want to get the word out to in a big way!

 

Somewhat on topic: I guess everyone is feeling the pull that phones have on the next generation of laptops and maybe even desktops. My biggest fear is that the powers that be will decide we are all connected enough to make gaming "cloud based". I personally would like it if I only used "the cloud" to back up my photos...

 

Game streaming barely works in-network...ohboy. I am extremely glad services like OnLive failed due to what it could have caused. I do feel however that 13/14 inch laptops will become the new norm since everyone was complaining at work about their 15.6 Thinkpads being "hard to carry around" ..had to take them ALL back and re-issue E460s (14 inch) and suddenly everyone is happy!

This is where BGA annoys me.. employee X has option to bring in their own hardware and we will update and max out storage and everything we can but say cpu is too slow and its not fastest for that socket I cannot just order an i7 with the vendor and be done with it I have to issue a thinkpad from stock which is more expensive in the long run and they are not pre-imaged

 

Well then. Maybe if they synced all my files for data plunder, they could at least offer me to return all of the files in case of a data loss disaster. It would be a win-win situation.

Also, I don't fully understand this one (?), can someone explain what is going on?

 

We have to be man enough (or woman enough) to just say no to BGA garbage. The buying public at large is composed of consumers that are so hopelessly stupid they would not know any better if it slapped them in the face.

If they (trashbook OEMs) begin to make all trashbooks fall into the same price range as ordinary smartphones, then the trashbooks will be an upgrade because of the bigger screen and keyboard, but they are all in the same category... the pathetic filth category. I would accept them as an upgrade from using a smartphone. I'd be willing to go as far as admitting that's an improvement. They're just not acceptable as a quality high performance notebook by any stretch of the imagination. And, 15 inch is already way too small. I just barely can handle how small the screen is on the Tornado F5. The small screen on the Lenovo T430 provided by my employer makes using that turdbook absolutely miserable for anything. Even something as mundane as reading email with Outlook is a truly miserable experience.

 

Yeah, that's hilarious. I don't know what purpose it actually serves, but seems to represent a stereotype of different personality styles based on where their social media and technology interests reside. The Messenger and emojidex are where we should all be aligned as it relates to BGA trash.

 

They're not wrong. If you're carrying a notebook around all day long, the smallest, thinnest, lightest ones are the best. And I hardly need mention that M.2 PCIe SSDs and (gasp!) soldered DIMMs make that possible. They may not necessarily be upgradable, but for getting work done easily, they are the go-to machine.

Admittedly anecdotal, but here goes. My sister is doing an MBBS (American equivalent is MD). She's got to have a notebook for patients' notes, general lecture note-taking, PDF files of thousand-page-long textbooks, etc. I suggested she get a Surface Pro 4. It works great for her. She used to have a 14" Samsung notebook that was deplorably thick and heavy, though it had a quad-core 2630QM CPU and a discrete GT 525M GPU. Never worked well for her. The SP4, on the other hand, has a dual-core ULV i7 and only an IGPU.

There are different use-cases, and different people are comfortable with different devices... Just because a machine is BGA doesn't mean it doesn't work; just because a small minority of enthusiasts think BGA is rubbish because it doesn't offer top-notch performance doesn't mean such machines aren't sufficient for the general population.

Are we going to issue desktop replacements to everyone in the finance and business industries just for Outlook, Word, Excel, PowerPoint and such? Not everyone wants to, or even can carry a 4 kg abomination everywhere. Not everyone is a 1.9 metre-tall, 90-kg-heavy, well-built person.

BYOD exists for a reason, you know...

 

Why not take a 10" tabled if you need a 14" laptop? Seems more convenient

I mean, I cannot properly read on a 15.6" laptop, a tabled at least stays naturally closer to the face, and has a similar power to most lightweight 14" laptops.

 

Acer $129.99 & FREE Shipping You will find more deals if yooo Google




Edit. As well, More options will come
First Windows on ARM64 devices will arrive in 2017 holiday season

 

Well, I can tell you that my "go-to machine" experience is dismal. I absolutely despise the piece of garbage provided for business based on form factor alone. I cannot tolerate it without having external monitors, keyboard and mouse attached. It doesn't need to be more powerful for what I use it for, but it would be nice if it were not such a miserable piece of garbage with a screen too small to be useful. The only thing I use it for in the office is a place to drag my Skype for Business instant messaging window. Anything more than that runs out of usable screen space. I honestly hate every minute of every day that I have to use it as a laptop out in the field. To say it sucks is an understatement. It could weigh twice or even three times as much and that would not matter to me. It's too small to be pleasant to use as a business productivity machine and there is truly nothing to like about it. This has nothing to do with BGA, other than BGA makes this sort of hopeless abortion possible.

 

I don't think you'll get too many arguments that a thin and light machine offers good prospects under those circumstances.
It's the power user scenarios that I have a problem with. Add to that, laptops with similar hardware that you describe your sister using being shoved into performance orientated machines and being marketed and priced as such.
Then there's the planned obsolescence , no upgradies part which is the greatest sleight of hand to somehow become an acceptable part of the general PC laptop culture.

 

Out of curiosity, how many anti-BGA members on here use their P870/P775/P77*/P75* outside of their home, or regularly carry their laptop to and from another location?

I'm not talking about pros and cons of each form factor, or why people are pro or anti BGA. Just if anti-BGA squad use your laptops as portable devices or not.

 

Do I count with my M570TU ? I use a desktop btw, but when I'm away I take my ageing lady with me.

 

Seldom. Right now I don't need to travel with it regularly in any sense of the word. My old m18x r2 I traveled with about once a week - even then I didn't need to. It's nice to be able to though in leisure scenarios, slow work days or overnight placements. Part of my requirement is I still need portability for inevitable plane travels.

If I need a machine for work then gaming is the furthest thing from my thoughts and my cheap and cheerful Lenovo Yogo 10 can manage presentations and word processing in a pinch. I try to keep those to worlds as separate as possible.

 

I can take BGA (I do prefer the ye good olde PGA sockets laptops used to have), what I cannot tolerate is a 2 core ulv processor. The Latitude e7440 with a 2 core 4rth gen i7 I had at work lagged Firefox with 6 tabs open, just 6! Now, rocking my own E5470 with a 4 core i5, I can have more than 10 tabs open flawlessly (My only bottleneck is the RAM, which I'll upgrade next month) without sacrificing battery life nor portability - Still about 7 hours of web browsing, word, excel, youtube and nextflix, less than 2Cm "thick" and less than 2Kg.

ULV processors belong to bloody unpowered ultra portable devices, not mid-to-high end and enterprise laptops

 

What would you say if I told you that in Romania this would go for 200$ without shipping?

 

If $200 without shipping is the cheapest you can get it in Romania... Buy it or look for another with similar price tag. Don't waste more of your hard earned money on laptops with soldered hardware. Or go for a phone or tablet if this suits you better. A nice looking smartphone will cost you more, but I'm sure you understand why.

 

@Papusan - we can begin to make reference to STR notebooks. Most people won't know what we are referring to, but that's OK. It may spark dialogue when they ask for an explanation

Definitions:
DTR = Desktop Replacement (quality high performance notebooks with powerful processors mounted in sockets and slots - performance and serviceability are held in high regard and made a priority)
STR = Smartphone/Tablet Replacement (appliances starting at $125 up to "gamerboy turdbook" level - designed to be cheap, small and light weight, but may be grossly overpriced when BGA is misused)

 

- you're calling a BGA GTX 1070 laptop a "smartphone/tablet replacement" ?

Hmmm, not sure which bracket you fall into! I guess the question is what would you purchase if you needed to replace your M570TU but were keeping your PC, or if you needed one new laptop to replace both your PC and M570?

 

Yes, exactly. Both are designed to be cheap-ass disposable garbage, so on that basis it is fitting and accurate. It's more powerful than a smartphone, but abuses the same design concept for the primary purpose of screwing the people ignorant enough or those with standards low enough to accept such rubbish.

 

Yes. I have been traveling with large DTR notebooks for many years and consider it a non-issue. XPS M1730, AW M17xR2, M18xR1, M18xR2, AW18, P570WM, P870DM-G, P870DM3 and Tornado F5 (which I view as crazy small and too light, but some think is too big and heavy LOL) have been my faithful travel companions for years. Many hundreds of thousands of cross-country air miles with them, and loving every minute of it. These have been a companion to my employer-provided IBM and Lenovo ThinkPad laptops, of which I have utterly despised every one due to their smaller form factor and the miserable user experience they deliver. The miserability factor is attributable to the 14 inch screen size and cramped keyboard that was BGA facilitated.

 

As you so nice say... STR = "Smartphone / Tablet Replacement (devices starting at $ 125 up to" gamerboy turdbook "level - designed to be cheap, small and lightweight, but may be grossly overpriced when BGA is misused)." EXACTLY!! Fits very well.

All those welded together *Monster* Book's should have a operating system that suits. The new Windoze 10 S should be a good candidate. A laptop for maximum portability should have OS that is intended for its hardware. ****Y fits ****Y!!

 

They're all too big and heavy, and I'm in the army. I've had enough of carrying weight around. But there you go. Not everyone can, or even wants to carry around a 4 – 5 kg machine. Some people don't mind the weight; others even relish it. Once again, one man's rubbish, another's treasure.

Also, I concur with @XMG... A 7820HK, GTX 1070 notebook like this you consider 'smartphone replacement'? Well, sure, whatever floats your boat. I can assure you plenty of people get lots of productivity done on those very machines you call 'smartphone replacement'. See, like I said before. Just because a machine doesn't work for you doesn't mean it isn't sufficient for others. If the trade-off is that they'd have to buy a new one every five years, so be it. The entire mobile market has been moving towards lighter, thinner machines for a decade now, and anyone will be powerless to stop it. I'm not saying that's a good thing. It's just what it is. That's the whole point of being 'mobile'.

Soon you'll be saying that gas-guzzler muscle cars are better than Teslas because they, well, run on petrol...

@XMG, I'm honestly quite curious. Your company sells both the P8/P7 series models, and the P6 models. Could you give us some very rough sales numbers—which models outsells the other? By what margin? No need for specific numbers, just a very general idea in relative terms. It may bring some light into this discussion...

 

I think that it works either way. Everyone should always get what they like and want!

For productivity, display size is extremely important, adding a 300$ 1440 25" display to any laptop will increase productivity by a considerable amount.

I cannot work properly on a 17" display to be honest, it is way too small...

 

Let's lighten up! I carry tons of heavy things either way, I'm an audiophile. What I would want is more power, but by the time you're using an amplifier for in-ear monitors, weight is not important anymore.

Also, please admire this: (Not mine!)

 

Oh but they are!!!



....

 

Yeah, if you've got plenty of money for the petrol... I, on the other hand, am rather cash-strapped, and I honestly couldn't care less how my car sounds (electric cars are quiet, that's a good thing) if I can get from point A to B quickly, safely, without having to spend too much money and without killing the environment in the process.

 

Depends how you view things. I also see cars as something much more than utilitarian devices. But each to their own. From where I am electric cars are far more expensive whilst producing and disposing of the batteries similarly do just as much harm to the environment if not more. But carbon tax has a better ring to it...
On top of that the electricity it uses still needs to originate from somewhere right - bingo.

 

Yeah I was surprised at how lame my E74XX is. It thin and light but performance blows.

I travel a fair amount and a standard sized 15" gaming laptop along with a thin business laptop works well. I can't quite see myself travelling with a 17" laptop though. I do wish the 15" was the F5 though...

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone, from both sides.

^^^^^ I defer to @Ionising_Radiation ' answer ;-) (But if your work gives you a rubbish laptop then blame your work, if they think that you only need a 14" BGA laptop then that's what they'll give you !!!!)

Now that's tough question, partly because I don't have access to the figures from home. But more importantly, although I could accurately say that the P65 outsells the P75 by maybe 3:1 or more, same with P67 vs P77 and in general, breaking the numbers down is much much more difficult:

- a good percentage of "socket" customers use their laptops primarily for work, or are business purchases. These sales wouldn't have a bearing on the current discussion as they need the power of a desktop CPU or 1080, or they need a machine which they can use int he lab at work and take the same unit with them on the road.

- I'd have to filter out our website sales from our business customer sales

- would have to filter out the chassis that we actually sell from the ones which we sell to other companies as barebones (which is a lot btw so it would seriously skew the numbers)

- look at the XMG reseller sales, for example the high street stores that sell XMG mainly have BGA chassis, but some online resellers sell a good number of socket systems

- we have a higher percentage of socket sales than other similar companies to us in Europe, partly because we have lots of commercial customers, VR customers etc who need a 1080 for example. Then again, lots of these companies actually use BGA 1070 systems when they are on the road primarily because they get good performance and better portability than with a socket CPU. These are professional users with performance demands by the way, not consumer customers and I'm reporting what they tell us - not what we tell them in our sales pitch.....

More generally, BGA massively outsells socket. BUT this, IMO, doesn't have a bearing on the discussion. If you have a pre-disposed position then the logic follows that 95% + of "performance laptops owners (and I mean say GTX 1060 and above) are ignorant and are being sold garbage. It wouldn't matter if it was 99% BGA or 60% BGA, the position would still be that BGA is garbage and everyone who buys BGA is ignorant - which is complete nonsense.

I don't really want to get into a massive debate about all this, our opinions are very different on the major topic - I just wanted to try and get some idea of where the feelings were comming from in terms of direct user experience.

 

I think that a 2.5kgs clevo p650 with a i7-7820hk and gtx1060 is a really good solution if someone is searching for a powerfull lightweight laptop but you should consider that a 2.5kgs w650 with desktop cpu and a soldered gtx1060 or a quadro could be better than p650.
A 3kgs laptop like msi 16L13 with a desktop cpu and a mxm gpu is excellent if someone is searching for a powerfull workstation imo.
why not a p750dm2 which lose weight?
I really don't understand why manufacturers (like alienware, acer or asus) make 3.5kgs/4.5kgs gaming laptops with a soldered cpu and a soldered gpu. it is totally nonsense imo
i think that for a game player p775/p870 are better than alienware 17, predator 17 or rog

I know that asus is a big manufacturer and this could influence market but clevo should continue with its policy (desktop cpu+mxm gpu)

 

Well then

 

Weight is something that doesn't bother me the slightest - it could weigh 10kg and I still wouldn't care. Dimension is a different story. I'd almost get the Tornado but I know already that I'd be looking to have it hooked up to an external display 24/7. 17" is the the minimum whereby I won't feel compelled to look for an external display for functionality.

 

The NP8950 has an AMP built in but of course it does cost power and board space to do so, as you shrink the design down this becomes a pretty large premium.

 

iFi iDSD Black Label outputs 4W of peak power in headphones though, this is why some of us need an amp.

But I do appreciate the premium of having a good amp in Clevo laptops!

 

You forget there are many machines nudging under 2KG now with those specs, including Clevo's own P950 now. So the weight difference really extends there.

As the driver of a worked 6L v8......you're not wrong. Granted, a Tesla is hardly practical in Australia just yet (charging station ubiquity just isn't has high as petrol stations), I have no doubt it'll happen eventually. Even got to drive a Model S and it is stupidly quick off the line.

I love my car and the sound it makes, but there's no getting around the fact that I currently get 30L/100km (7.8MPG for those with the weird numbers). And that's driving reasonably with an average speed of 35km/h.

Fortunately, I live in a semi-rural area. Roads are big, parking spaces are reasonable and I don't rack up many kms. If I had to drive in the city every day, I'd buy a 4 cylinder fart box without a second thought (maybe a Toyota86 since they can still be a little fun ).

 

I like very much that p950 but I doubt that it will have a 7820hk
it is an msi gs63vr competitor

 

I have a turbo charged 3 cylinder

 

I used to have one too - lots of fun actually. It was a second car because my Rx7 was stupid thirsty.

 

Those rotary engines... But I hear it handles like a dream, at least.