BGA Venting Thread ;)

Well yh your right. You might be okay with lodging around P870DM3's for work everyday, which may have even added to the back problems you faced but I can't.

Lodging my P650RS-G everyday to lectures is already reaching my limits knowing that I also have to carry the power adapter which is about another kg on its own. And knowing I don't drive everyday to uni and as such have to walk about 20 mins a day before I get there is quite hectic. Carrying a P870DM3 around for me is just in no way feasible especially adding the dual/single power brick. Even using it during lectures is just going to make you look odd as everyone will ask why bother to lodge around such a heavy thing each day.

And @ole!!! Saying that the P870DM3 is not heavy when accounting for the power brick as well to me is not valid. I think most people will agree it is heavy especially when accounting with the power brick as well.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

I totally respect your opinion being different for the reasons you stated they are. I won't pass judgment on you as an individual for having an opinion that fits the scenario that is your life. The real problem is the perception that has been created by all of the targeted marketing (mostly lies) and the fabricated perception of what constitutes too big or too heavy. Some of it is generational, and some of it has to do with whatever clique a person has chosen to be a part of. As far as looking odd is concerned, I have never cared about what others think about what I do, what I like, or how I behave. I have actually immensely enjoyed turning heads packing a wicked monsterbook DTR machine around. Many people were amazed by them and the majority of the public had no idea that such a thing even existed. Some people think it's ideal to drive an anemic piece of trash like a SmartCar, Prius, Fiat 500 or Cooper mini. "Normal" people (those that don't care) view cars only as a form of transportation from point A to point B. Others like muscle cars, and others like monster trucks. Some like riding a sluggish pig bike like a Harley Road King or Honda Gold Wing, and some won't settle for anything other than a crotch rocket (think Yamaha YZR R1, Kawaski Ninja, Suzuki Hayabusa, Ducati 1098S). Mixing these cliques is like adding oil to water, just as it is with "portable" notebooks versus DTR laptops. There is not really any common ground among these interests... mostly contempt, because the opposing alternatives embody and represent what one hates about a particular genre or class of a particular product.

 

portable is a definition, in my sense, i need to be able to use it comfortably and efficiently at whatever i do and i deem fit. i can use a superthin notebook or super heavy DTR laptop on my lap, neither will be efficient nor comfortable, i simply must use a mouse and a desk with enough space for my mouse.

but i guess you havent seen the real big laptops, acer 21x is actually one of the smaller versus the old big boys decade ago, when HP, sagers, Dell, acer and samsung all had their 19/20 inch laptop.

 

Hmm yes I totally respect you for seeing my point of view and understanding where am coming from. I also respect you for your openness to carry the DTR laptops around and your explanation about the different scenarios. My P650RS-G already turns heads when am out as the keyboard lighting glows different colours and people never thought that or even knew that was possible. And with the scenario of looking odd, I generally don't really care about what others think as I even have a certain friend of mine in class who thinks even my P650 is too big and always tries to compare it with his CrApply notebook which just gives me jokes as he doesn't know what real speed and power is due to CrApple brain washing lol. The looking odd is just my preference as to what is considered too big or average and also the strength needed to carry around the DTR everyday. I have another friend in my class who has an Asus G751JY and doesnt bother to bring his laptop to class as its too heavy and big for him to carry around and he has to manage the laptops/desktops our uni provides (which he doesnt llke but has no choice but to manage). But yh I guess its all down to personal preference and what you might deem too heavy or weighty to carry around but I think most will agree the DTR might not be feasible to carry around except you have a car to take to work/school and are okay with carrying it from class to class or meeting to meeting.

 

As much as I'm not a fan of Apple, human interface devices is one area where their laptops still have an edge. I'm talking about having usable keyboards and trackpads, not to mention displays, which don't necessitate carrying around a mouse like you do with 90% of Windowsbooks.

 

i do use track pad, for simple stuff, anything else its inefficient and need a mouse i can go 10x faster with a mouse than i can with trackpad. i will simply not use it at all unless i am given with no choice. track pad is just like iGPU and battery, a must have for convenience sake when the primary goes bad but you can still use it to troubleshoot or bare minimum usage.

 

Trackpads have been getting better in general but there are some exceptions out there. The pad on my NP9873 is ok IMO.

 

Those without buttons are the most miserable pieces of trash to use. They look a bit cleaner aesthetically, but suck so much that I have only very vulgar words to describe my contempt for them. I will never consider purchasing any notebook with a buttonless clickpad, whether it is a BGA turdbook or not, because I hate them so much.

That being said, I will not make any effort to use any touchpad unless doing so is totally unavoidable. Using a mouse is vastly superior and more pleasing in every aspect imaginable.

As far as touchpads with buttons go, those on the P870, Alienware M18xR2 and Alienware 18 are the least miserable that I ever found myself stuck having to use once in a great while. Discrete left and right buttons are an absolute must in terms of functionality.

 

I actually disable the trackpad on my P71








trackpoint is much better than any trackpad once you get used to it shame the ones from Dell/HP isn't as good as thinkpads

 

Having used both the track pad is more accurate if done right just due to the larger range in motion.

 

My issue with most trackpad is that they don't have a separate DPI / sensitivity slider and rely on the windows mouse pointer setting to increase speed.

When you turn off EPP and use 6/11 most trackpads just too slow.

Alienware trackpads have a setting for this fortunately.

 

That is where part of the finesse in the design comes in.

 

@Mr. Fox said it, track pads are miserable to use. Even my crappy ancient Dell BT mouse is better. At least newer drivers disabled the pad correctly when the mouse is attached (though my useless Dell touch screen has saved the day when I need to manually enable the touch pad for some reason).

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

Well, this is probably all all-too-familiar story for some here. My coworkers needed a high performance laptop for numerical computing. I only heard about it when they proudly announced purchasing a Dallienware laptop with a 1080. Ugh...

These are normally very bright people, just woefully uninformed about laptops and performance.

On another tangent, how well do the 16L13 and that monster Clevo dual 1080 @Mr. Fox just sold run Linux (say Ubuntu 16.04) and nVidia CUDA / cudnn?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

I detested the clickpad in this P370EM when I first used it (its a buttonless touchpad where you can press the whole pad to left click)

I have really grown to like it though. I don't click it much except when dragging something but I've set up things like two finger right click, and the range of gestures is really useful. Volume up/down, play/pause, task switch, forward/back, zoom, scroll all without needing to reach for the mouse or keyboard for two hand shortcuts.



Time spent trying to set them up to your individual preferences is well spent IMO.

 

I'm not a fan of TPs either, but I've adapted to the tap-to-click and basic gestures. Click buttons or not, TPs are mostly manageable (but give me a mouse anyway).

 

I am enjoying this. Trackpad venting thread.

 

Yeah, went off topics. Should really be put up as own thread.

 

for casual use honestly its there and served its purpose. if im doing work and want to be quick, its not even a comparison, it is easily 10-15x more efficient with a good mouse. i've used track pad to install windows as the necessary few clicks i need to do, as well as quickly check something on my laptop while on the go, or lacking 2nd mouse/ synergy and be used as a secondary computer.

everything else is gotta be mouse.
track pad serves the purpose when mouse goes bad

 

I like the easy two finger scrolling you can do.

 

I just saw another font to why you really hate bga's as I noticed intel used to have most of their mobile cpu's as PGA's (so pin grid array like amd ryzen) and some bga's, and only when it got to haswell or ivybridge or there abouts that they changed and starting putting most if not all of their mobiles as bga's which is kind of a d**kish move by intel.

 

Yeah Haswell was half-and-half between PGA and BGA, then from Broadwell onward all mobile CPUs became BGA.

 

Yh I know so bad

BTW what size of arctic thermal pads do you use for your laptop?

 

I got the 50x50x1.5 mm piece from Amazon and cut it into 3rds. Used two of them for my VRAM.

 

Intel finished their crusade for not including pins on their package and going for minimum z height.

 

so, 8700k arrived for a whopping 5.2ghz from SL, gonna run it at 1.25v 5ghz in a laptop hope it all goes well!.

on the other hand.. BGA http://digiworthy.com/2017/12/18/intel-8th-gen-core-i7-8700hq-notebooks/ @Papusan @Mr. Fox

LMAO "The Core i7-8700HQ CPU-Z also shows it’s clocked at a base 2.4GHz, which can be boosted up to a single-core Turbo of 3.6GHz and a max 6-core Turbo of 3.0GHz." @Danishblunt can enjoy max 6 core turbo boost of 3.0ghz while i'll do at 5.0ghz

wait, better yet, bga lovers can pay for i9 laptop still remains max 6 cores at around 4ghz for easily $600-700+. love being milked, intel loves you.

 

Nothing is better than bga. With bga i have so much more free time to do other stuff besides on the laptop as wait for things to load. I can cook, read a book, watch tv... With desktop cpu im so consumed with the laptop dont have time for anything else. With bga i can fully enjoy a game taking in slowly each moment frame by frame. Desktop cpu laptop is like a kid with adhd on crystal meth. Needs to chillout like my bga taking it easyy. What a waste of money im sticking to my one and only love, forever Bga

 

See now you just pokin the bear.... err... uuhh... chihuahua bro....

 

i vent yo!

 

Does anybody actually "love" BGA though? It seems more like they will accept it as part of what else they want in a system.

 

accept it just keep that standard going lower and lower. eventually it might to be a point intel will charge $100 or $200 for additional 200-300mhz, oh wait, they are already doing that!

 

Just keep your chin up and buy more socketed machines. They'll keep making them as long as there is demand.

 

dont think that will ever be enough tho. the ratio for bga/lga sales are like 1:10000000 like 99.9999%. people needs proper education that bga only offers THIN and nothing else. when power efficiency, performance, cost and quality, LGA takes the win. once they have their ideas corrected only then they'll be able to make proper choices, then we'll get to see more move to LGA if they really needs them.

 

99% of people only care about thin and nothing else.

You forget that the average consumer doesn't want a heavy, expensive, power-hungry beast.

They want a thin, light, portable device that can accelerate their productivity, with a long-lasting battery. For that, they need a CPU that does race-to-idle very well. Raven Ridge and Coffee Lake does just that. The users in NBR are not your average consumer.

Even I plan to buy the Clevo P6 series (or its successor) rather than the P7 notebooks, with an i9-8950HK. If I find that that's too expensive, I'll get something cheaper (and thinner and lighter), and just build a desktop for all-out performance. Unless you can show me a notebook that's 2.5 kg heavy, 2.5–3.5 cm thick and costs $1600 with an MXM video card and an LGA socket, with a GTX 2070 and i7-8700K already built in...

 

your answer is entirely for 99.999% of people who doesnt have the time or bother to learn the truth. though as i previously mentioned, it is thin and thats it. desktop LGA cpu can be extremely power efficient at lower clocks which further nets you more battery life.

long lasting battery is battery, separate hardware from cpu. battery A for both lga/bga cpu, at lower clocks you can almost never be able to tell difference. at higher clocks, lga cpu shows their quality superiority, then instantly you realize intel's bull about battery life. it is only THIN as it's benefit, for intel its MONEY grab.

 

I am inclined to believe what @Meaker@Sager says about Intel's silicon quality: there is no real difference between the silicon used in the 7700HQ, 7820HK and 7700K. We cannot simply compare equal clocks on two different notebooks with different VRMs, heat dissipation and different board layouts and say 'ha, look, 7700HQ is worse than 7700K at high clocks'.

Furthermore, it doesn't matter when your CPU is running at more than 50 W anyway, with another 100 W being drawn by the GPU.

Battery life = ULV low power. Full stop.

 

If there was a 7820mx, I might have purchased that instead of my Ranger.

It turns out my motherboard is a lemon or somewhat damaged when the AC adapter blew I suspect some of the VRMs died and overheat easily when I try to overclock past 3.7Ghz

Its comforting to know that I can replace just the motherboard.

I respect BGA in the fields it excels, but if I had the Echo platform instead of the Ranger I would be pretty disenfranchised to say the least.

 

i find it hard to believe, after all the facts thats made available for everyone here to see, you'd still come to the same conclusion you did months ago. i can call my alarm clock ULV and some will believe it, but doesnt mean its true. you just gotta dig up info and try to understand the reasons behind the way they do things. but i give up trying to make you understand it.

also, meaker is a representative and no doubt there will be consequences for stuff what he can and can not post on forum, but thats for another topic.

 

I find it hard to believe that you take results from unscientific tests as fact.

As for Meaker, he is a Sager representative—not an Intel one, am I not correct? I know NBR likes to see the worst in everyone, but I like to see the people behind the user handles here, and I will tend to trust the word of reps like himself, who know what they are talking about.

 

lol this thread



width BJ,Eh?

 

im not very good at expressing my thoughts, im not meaker and can't really speak for him but just the process how this'd go.

take in what you have mentioned in previous posts, majority of laptop owners 99.99% likes thin BGA. if a representative of a laptop company tells everyone lga has better quality then bga, people will go ask for a good, thin, light, lga laptop as they think they are asking from an "expert". well now bga will always likely to be thinner given how its power throttled and restricted, means needing smaller heatsink therefore thinner, so the result will be, lga will always be thicker as people who buys them require more power.

going back to your earlier statement, if a company want sales, they'll tell what people like to hear and these people are worse than you, they dont even bother to look for facts as they simply dont care, they will want to have what their friends/family wants and go by hearsay.

sometimes you dont need to gather scientific facts to know the whole picture, you would be better off with a logical imagination. makes you wonder why great science giants are capable of coming up ideas before its proven that they are correct.

now onto what we have been discussing before. 3 paragraphs ago i metnioned "bga will always likely to be thinner given how its power throttled and restricted, means needing smaller heatsink therefore thinner" and thats all it does. it does not mean bga is more power efficient nor better quality. btw havent @Papusan already provide plenty of proofs? are people really blind

 

When peoples see my giant fire breathing beast of a laptop their minds are blown. Then they laugh and go on about how much it must weigh. Then I remind em of the fact that I'm a MAN and I give zero f|cks about how much somethin weighs. Then they look at me funny. It goes like dat err time anyone sees the thing.

 

"lighter than the desktop you left at home"

 

More trash is on it's way. In prices from $ 600 to $ 800 usd. Welcome to the future May we see luxury versinons passing $1000-1200 ? Even +$1200?

Snapdragon 835 Powered Windows 10 Ultraportables Expected To Rule Low-End PC Market

 

Smartphones are already worth more than $1000 now, new. *cough* iPhone X *cough*

 

I have to expect I can call with the coming ultraportable monster book. But you will struggle put it in your pocket. Luckyily you can let the tailor sew a big pocket on every garment you have for a small amount cash. A pure Iphone X killer Hope they dont cripple it as Apple

 

and you don't get a fast charger or wireless charger for paying almost $1300 USD for the 256GB version

 

Screw that Apple move. Forget performance. That is a downright anti-environment move. Encourages users to discard their devices after 1 year instead of Apple optimising their software to account for the degradation of batteries, or prompting users to change batteries. Things like this should be made illegal.

It makes me extremely angry that Apple calls itself a 'green company' but pulls moves like this. Ask Apple to shove its greenness up its arse.

 

heh i'll be honest with you my first laptops were sony vaio 14" and hp 15" and i thought they were the best laptops you could get (8 yrs ago) and simply because of personal ego? of owning something good i guess.

then when i first came across ASUS G74SX holy crap my mind was blown because of the sheer size and also 17" display, and also fact that it came with USB3.0 and TWO FANS, i couldnt believe that laptops had TWO FANS, overheating has always been issue with small laptops. i find those giant lappy beautiful and i went crazy after that.

m18x followed after with 3 fans and 18" display, then got my hands on some old junk 20" laptops m2010, HDX9000 and oh boy those are giants especially m2010, much bigger and thicker than acer's new 21 inch laptop. makes p870tm-g so thin and small lol.

 

not too surprised behind their ideal, all about making money. all these OEM and intel thin bga that 99.999% of people boasting about, they dont understand the truth behind the reason OEMs do this and yet you're praising them and what they said like some kind of gospal lol (quoting your ULV line).

i find it funny u'd talk down so much on apple yet being completely oblivious to bga, its basically on the level of what apple did, if not worse.