BGA Venting Thread ;)

I'm not advocating for BGA. I am saying that BGA CPU performance, all else equal, is the same as LGA CPU performance. I think BGA is an equally anti-consumer move. We are stuck with it. But notebooks tend to be used for much longer, and the software can be rebuilt/changed much easier than on smartphones, which are fully locked-down from the outset. Bootloader, bootcode, source code, nothing can be accessed.

Like I said, find me a notebook with a 15" screen, 2.5–3.5 cm thick, 2.5–3 kg heavy, with an MXM slot and PGA CPU slot for an AMD Ryzen CPU, with a nice carbon fibre unibody and accessible internals, and I will buy it in a heartbeat, faster than you can say 'BGA'. There isn't such a design. Won't ever be. And I have to resign to the second-best option.

 

to answer your first paragraph, i know thats what you're trying to say. and what we've been telling you guys is that they are NOT equal. when we talk about equal or not here, its the silicon quality which relates to the final performance of the cpu when CPU being pushed at the highest end. if you were to talk about performance at lower end and using that 99.9999% consumers number that they want thin/battery etc, thats talking about thin and efficiency. thin is what it is, in efficiency i'd dare say it'll lose to even desktop unless intel purposely put additional features on laptop chips.

to answer or not to answer pt2, im not going to find one for you because you likely won't find one. reason being consumers like you or much worse taking up that 99.9999% driving these OEM and pushing them the direction intel wanted them to go, thats where money is at. a couple of years ago (5-6yrs) when laptop had PGA CPUs you can probably find them common, now everything gone bga you wont find a single one. you have gotta understand why things became the way they are, rather than saying "oh you cant find fact so you must be wrong" while you and the majority of people are causing this issue in the first place rofl.

 

How is any company that exports manufacturing (and associated emissions and waste) to coal-fired China in any way "green" to begin with?

I don't understand how consumers have been so stupid as to let companies successfully sell them generation after generation of stuff without easily swappable batteries. Who cares if you get an hour more or less when you can carry around the ability to double or triple your runtime with a few seconds work and a reboot. I had three batteries and a standalone charger for my Galaxy S3, always had a spare in my backpack, I literally never ran flat in years of owning it. Now I have to carry a much larger powerbank and a charger cable...

 

OH NOS!!

First world problems are somethin aint they?

 

A new battery is still a lot cheaper in most cases (apple do it for $80 IIRC) but people want the latest device and use it as an excuse.

Even when thy were easy to swap the rate was pretty low with the general public.

 

Why not...

Remeber Iphones/other phones has increased in price. Expect the swap rate rather will go down a bit than stand still or go up. And todays phones include faster BGA hardware than before. And better screens. Almost $1300 USD ain't something you just throw down the toilet after 1 or 2 years use.

 

True. Smartphones can be made to last half a decade with good software, or at least good care. I have an iPhone 4S that is super fast, feels faster than even my sister's newfangled iPhone 8. iOS 6 was beautiful and fast.

 

Who says Apple is any different from Microsoft;

Choose updates that slow your old hardware to a crawl
or
Don't update and discover over time how many wide open holes there are, that aren't ever going to be patched for your old version...

 

@Ionising_Radiation @hmscott got something cool for you guys

this is on STOCK bios with P870TM, 8700k 6c/12t. fan max at 80% because you know the CCC control software and firmware is junk, but at 132w 5ghz im at around 77c in temperature. clevo is doing a bit better with current/voltage throttling this time around but they could totally add a 2nd fan for CPU instead now i'd have to add it myself, then my temp will go even lower probably.

remember what @Danishblunt mentioned that you cant even use CPU at STOCK clock in this laptop especially its now upped 2 cores, well hes wrong and not very knowledgeable when it comes to overclocking, actually, i meant to say in general hes not very knowledgeable.



ps, ambient is cool because winter time but still around 20-23c. with another added fan hope to see a drop of 5C under max load, fingers crossed.

 

Danishblunt is that jerk who said you could bench at 5.2 ghz on a GT73VR at 1.278v, with an EC mod he wrote himself (!!). I kid you not. He also claimed you need an EC mod to bench at 5.2 ghz (LOL). The EC isn't blocking 5.2 ghz. The BGA silicon quality is. I have one of the lowest VID BGA turds known to man and realbench crashes at 1.350v at 5 ghz. And at 4.9 ghz, temps get to 93C WITH LIQUID METAL paste. and danishblunt refuses to use LM. So somehow he can get lower temps than me at 5.2 ghz. This guy is probably the biggest troll outside of that one guy who flamed @Phoenix earlier yesterday over "Gaming Center" (and requested an illegal name change).

Do you really think HE knows more about the EC and power limits than me? Even the Great Almighty @Prema knows that I may be a bit misguided but I DID put my hard work in, unlike danishblunt.

 

Obligatory link request for the drama thread. Could use the reading material while I eat

 

The Immortal @Papusan has the links. He just told me about them. I have danish on permanent ignore anyway.
The toxic name change post was deleted by a mod also.

 

Am not Papusan, but this is probably the one Falkentyne was referring to.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/gt73vr-titan-pro-ne1080-on-the-way.812015/page-3

 

You can ask yourself Then maybe you have your answers.

 

LMAO !!!!!!!!
The GT73VR does not even have a vcore sensor!!! hahahaha
Unless someone here knows the read points to stick an Oscilloscope to the board (and no one here does), he won't even know what voltage is going to the CPU!
Plus I was the first person to find out about the IA AC DC loadline. He had no idea what it did.
IA AC DC Loadline at 0.01 mOhms (1 in bios) makes VID very close to target Vcore, but BEFORE VDROOP IS factored in. and-no vcore sensor=no way to know how much vdroop you have (Since VID cannot and does not show vdroop).

 

LOL even the math is wrong

 

Still, 462 468mv is a damn nice **undervolt**

 

just me but, i'd pay $1500 for a chip like that.

 

Run and buy... Because You have to pump up the clocks, bruh... We will soon see the new Intel 6 core 45w BGA chips that easly manage 5.2/5.3GHz STABLE on ALL 6 cores and with lower voltage than you ever have seen

 

remember, intel is going to charge more this time for their SIX CORES i9 CPU now, even though its no different from their previous generation HK CPU except 2 more cores. why? because it's i9 !!

desktop users pays the same going from 4 to 6 cores while mobile users pays more and 99.99% of people out there still think its justified LOL. i9 bga LOLOL

 

Maybe we will see naming as i9-8850HX next year? X for Extreme and Intel and the ODM/OEM's can step up their prices on their Jokebooks. People is probably willing to pay a Hell lot more for the X tag vs. all the other letters in the alphbet. Hk can still be used for the unlocked 4 core BGA version for a slightly lower price. What's better than offer people more choices, bruh? Maybe ODM/OEM's next step will be offering people binned MB for a nice amount more cash? Let say they can guaranteed you 4.4GHz on a single core?

 

Thats easy, the one size fits all is best of course. Cheapest to produce and has the best net profit.

/s

 

my new 24/7 clock at 4.9ghz. previous at 5ghz was fine until i run firefox that had avx workload had to up voltage and at 50x ran too hot, dont like it when cpu go over 80c and dont want to lower multiplier cause of avx. new clock is just right, in summer time i'll lower it to 48x or 47x.

 

One size fits all is still about the least applicable to notebooks, desktops are far more this way. The curse of that is less standards for parts however.

 

Skeuomorphism was the ultimate reason on why the iOS looked good and the Aqua of the OS X, Even the Win7 had the M$+Tab for that 3D, Aero Glass UI etc. It's a bit on the subjective side of things but the perception of it matters. Unfortunately I dig it, They killed everything, Apple did, After the passing of Jobs and Followed by Google and Micro$haft. Since then slowly the "Form over Function" started when it was fueled heavily by the corporate marketing philosophy. The death of the Replaceable batteries happened, Planned Obsolescene. As this is new and this is latest and greatest norm, more on the aesthetics and it just works, the silly reason they put for the removal of the Analog ports calling it simplicity, aesthetically luxurious and pleasing (sealed batteries, which ware presumably consumables now and pay $$ for the rated service more market, repair market for Apple) and the truth was they are closing everything behind the licensing and the DRM, Walled territories, Freedom (Less and less choice as tech is progressing, loss of liberty) & while the people are just dreaming about those faux products which look fantastic outside these corporates are busty with their own things Read - Repair market, Lobbying (Inevitable, at multiple levels, but read how much of the repair market they want control of),
Mergers and Acqusitions

Spoiler

For Apple this is nothing new they ruined GT Advanced Technologies & Imagination Technologies making them lag behind ( 70% of revenue from Apple & Poaching key people before that the key people, their so called in house GPU is the culmination of this)

& Tax Evasions - Reason why Apple is mentioned ? Because they are the proponents of this world we are in. From the death of WinMo to the BGA crap fest, their marketing team is #1. No competition & also how they lost their path.

And now we are stuck with that Win10 pastel UI which has changed it's path to SaaS and the Intel + OEMs milking consumers over and over with the Irreparable trashware, Google had great Material design which extends the Flat UI to 3D culminating a greater UI language adding depth, but alas ! Good things tend to live short. Post the CEO change the Android was spearheaded by a different person now, which is after LP v5 of Android. Oreo as in Android as a whole is literally focusing more on the iOS style in both UI, whitewashed to nerfing / subverting the OS power and options (Removing granular battery usage stats in the name of security, barricading with the Play Store enforcement rules 1 (Accessibility link 1, 2, 3, resolved for now) & 2 (64Bit enforcement, API forcing, metadata tagging - Pixel SystemUI is closed and they are looking to replace the OS with an MIT License based Fuscia OS to the existing GNU/GPL powered Linux kernel, A/B parition enforcing from Oreo must be paving way for that), DMverity, SafetyNet, Secure Element Chip (Clone of the Apple's SEP chip from the ARM based one in the 2016-17 Trashbook Pros - Soldered garbage - From CPU to even Touchpad lol, now the ARM based A10 is inside the latest MacPro with next level of that stuff, say goodbye to Hackintoshing from now on, once they eliminate all the machines powered without the Secure Enclave type solutions) all for more power, more Data to fuel their product selling rate.

And then we had this Alienware disaster, Dell and co instead of forcing Intel for the rPGA they opted for this stop-gap soldered filth to tap into the same market (Too bad they ruined their Precision too after that privatization of the Dell and engulfing Alienware into an Instagram/Facebook click magnet) that Apple is/was doing all the way, and we know Macs had Soldered trash since a long time when it comes to the HW long before the 6th Gen era & grants ZERO upgrade-ability or interchangeability like on Windows machines (Until Haswell every machine apart from the ulv can be upgraded when it was bought with a 2/3/4 - x7xx to the 8/9/XM or MX versions, or RAM from 1600 to 2133MHz & the SATAIII with SSD/HDDs but now ? Only the overheating M.2 SSD must needed cooling else bust + with lesser warranty, SanDisk Extreme Pro & Samsung Pro SATAIII have 10Yr warranty) Now the whole market is tuned towards the thin and light and looking beautiful, Ever seen the Surface laptop's internals ? Ugh, a damn shame because the Surface Pro has upgradable storage with M.2 while this abomination is locked down and severely overpriced throttle garbage inspired by none other than the almighty crApple's trashbooks being advertised as slim-y and shiny. All for what ? Again "Form over Function" <- this thing right here. This is what is dictating everyone to push towards a corner and flush their existing tech gear. I went to BestBuy this BL to shop for a small portable to replace my stupid Acer Aspire S3 2nd gen and surprisingly most of the laptops/ultrabooks have ULV garbage and/or loss of the I/O ports just like Apple. That's called a disaster LOL. Now I'm waiting for some offers on marketplace on an old 3-4th gen with GPU socketed machine.

Also see this, very interesting - Haswell 4xxxMQ blowing the 6xxxHQ to oblivion, thanks to @Papusan

The recent trend was to ship the devices to the YouTuber's for the direct injection of Kool-Aid the next level of marketing that these guys make, Also that Homepod firmware infested with iPhone X glyphs and info tuning the people before. The NDAs and everything evolved. Look how the media reviewers are heavily biased, this goes a lot OT but logically thinking there are these very crucial things that overlap on each other and converge at the idea. Worry not soon we will have a new UEFI Class III+ machines with Secure Boot and Secure Flash mandated with the death of BIOS by 2020 everyone can rock their new super thin and light notebooks.

Let's blast this BGA, Planned Obsolescene to hell, Make people know stuff more so that they can join this battle about 'Choice and Liberty' (Which we win sometimes, At-least against the green goblin ) from this New Year !!

Spoiler: Edit : Even Automobile Industry is...

Also the same is being fed into the Automobiles too, Only DCT no Stick shifts, Turbos, Look at the F-1 now (From the truly insane V12/10 to the gimped 4 Cyl soon perhaps), sad fate (Ferrari is saying if the new engine rules are put in place they are done). Also Audi, Porsche quit Le-Mans 24Hr to Formula - E. All those supercars already shifted to the soulless boxes where only the extremely rich care and they obviously not into the pure stuff and the new Tesla being touted as the king of hill lol in a 1/4 drag strip just like the turbo on the soldered new Quadcore chips lmao. Thanks to VW scandal instead of engaging more R&D into the proper spec they abused it and now almost every car maker from luxury to mainstream is going for the Hybrid cars, DCTs, Turbo charged ones except a few who care ( Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lambo's Urus is Turbo now departing from their Hurracan / Avendator) every brand is into it, EU nations are targeting eliminating the gas from the equation. Tesla knows every owner info and their habits there's no OSS powering that lol. Like the Linux alternatives we have here. More power again..

Food for the thought that's it ..

 

Modern notebooks hardware will be more and more like what you can find in Smartphones. The only difference between them is that todays smartphones being bigger and heavier, while the laptops Jokebooks being lighter - thinner (15,6-17,3 inches). Why throw your hard earned money on both soldered filth? Buy a normal computer (desktop or laptop with LGA-MXM) + smartphone. Not the opposite... Jokebook + phone.

 

something i wanna point out. i have had 5 sandisk extreme pro and 3 already failed, about after 1yr of use. with the warranty honestly isnt probably worth the hassle, my data and time put into fixing it just not worth it, though i'd still recommend to people who rarely use their computer. this is just my experience, their sandforce SSDs from sandisk still going strong to this day, i've owned 8 sandforce SSD only 1 failed.

 

I'm hoping the motorcycle industry drags their feet a little more. So far I've really only really noticed it in Honda, but I'm hoping that it doesn't become popular.

 

Because everyone has different needs, wanting something more portable with as much power as possible in the form factor can make a lot of sense to people.

It's the same reason people don't put huge desktops and would go for a NUC in the living room, with the above chip it could do some 1080p gaming too.

 

Seems like there's an attitude of "go big or go home" with a lot of these products. Telling someone with form factor on their minds that basically they're wrong for not picking the thing that matches one's own preferences is counterproductive.

 

The mentality is definitely that. But to each their own. It would be nice to see more prolific, mobile LGA computing options.

 

Agreed. I've had quite a few people actually ask about low end i3/Ryzen 3 systems, while a small niche, I think they'd sell decently if there were a few out there.

 

The only issue being small niche and cheaper product don't normally go together due to design costs.

However I won't argue that more choice would be a bad thing.

It will be interesting to see what ryzen 2xxx will bring in clock gains and efficiency.

 

I'm guilty of that type of wishful thinking a lot, and hoping that some solution arrives, like a more modular construction method.

 

I'd love to see it but to be fair I am not sure two desktop notebook lines can easily be supported.

 

@Papusan BGA!! 6 core 2.2-2.4ghz 6 cores danishblunt's favourite

http://ranker.sisoftware.net/show_d...bf82b294fcc1f1d7af92a284e184b989afdce1d9&l=en

 

Base clocks listed there of course, you could call a 7700 a desktop chip 3.6ghz using that logic.

 

7700K base clocks are 4.2 ghz, is it not?
Regardless, that's still....EXTREMELY low.

 

It makes a big difference being at Intel's/motherboard maker's mercy of turbo power limits though. Some non-K coffee lake Z370 implementations are locked to the Intel minimum 8 second turbo duration... If that happens in mobile too we are going to see some real sluggish HQs this year.

It comes down to marketing ethics vs pushing the envelope.

Best case spec marketing misleads consumers. "up to X hours" battery life cons buyers every single day who expect that in regular use. Turboboost CPUs are sold everywhere as "up to Y.Z GHz" which I suppose is at least attainable by the user under normal working conditions (unlike the degraded experience endured when hypermiling a battery to achieve the claim)

At the flip side though, "base clock" is NOT a guaranteed minimum since there are many examples of throttlebooks where by design (or failure of) chips can't even maintain their base speed over the long term

 

And where did you get this number from? Out of the air?

Guaranteed minimum maybe 799MHz ? Or even lower?

 

You guys got the term throttlebook from me Glad I'm a little liked around here

 

normally i'd agree with you, this time i got da feeling, 2.0ghz all over again!, watch them lowering those TDP to like 30w and restrict people with bios/firmware.

 

Isn't 35W Intel + OEM's second target for thin and flimsy? At least for latest gen Intel Core i7 H Mobile.

 

You look at benchmarks for that but it would be great if down and up options could be taken advantage of where applicable and have switchable options in the higher performance machines.

 

I said 7700 not 7700k.

https://ark.intel.com/products/97128/Intel-Core-i7-7700-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_20-GHz

So yes the 7700k has a higher base clock and I got the numbers I was talking about from Intel.

Try and pay some attention

 

i have to agree @Falkentyne once you touched higher frequency cpu, its hard to go back. people say they dont see/feel difference then only conclusion i could draw is that they aren't enthusiast. to me a 4.9ghz cpu with a 15% IPC boost vs an old ivybridge at 4.3ghz, huge difference.

 

Or they're limited by some other factor they're not considering that makes the performance gain harder to see.

 

most software are like that, OS and other stuff they use.

 

Probably even what they use it for. OCing doesn't always make itself apparent in gaming or low CPU use applications.

 

they simply dont have a usage that slows computer down so much to see difference or notice it. i remember my firefox tabs exceed over 3000 and its hella slow. partially it was software but with faster cpu it is a lot snappier and quicker.