BGA Venting Thread ;)

I just went through the same decision and chose the MSI 16L13. The configurations on the Alienware are setup such that its impossible to get a 6820HK unless you also get a GTX 1070 and 4k display. This, to me is the worst thing about BGA systems. It lets manufacturers fit their products into tiers instead of actually allowing customization. Clevo even does this to an extent, there is no P650RG with 6820HK. But at least you can still choose what display you want, regardless of what processor or video card.

 

Just be warned about the Tornado F5, it has HDMI 1.4 and displayport 1.2 so no 4k@60Hz out...

Also Fred, you can configure throttlestop to have different profiles so yes you can have one where your 6700K is totally downclocked and massively undervolted to maximise battery life..

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

 

Oof.. well I guess if I continue not to use ext displays it wouldn't matter.

And thanks - yes that's what I thought you could do with throttlestop!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

How are you liking the tornado?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

Eurocom verified that the HDMI port is actually 2.0. I am not sure about the mDP but 1.2 is fine for me. The Thunderbolt 3 port should be able to do two 4k panels at 60hz (or a single 5k panel) so it should be good for most future monitors.

It should be shipped out today, and will arrive next week. If it is anything like the GT62VR it should be great. Hopefully with enough interest, MSI will consider making 17 inch and 18 inch versions of it to better compete with Clevo's lineup.

 

DisplayPort 1.2 actually can support 4K@60Hz displays, thankfully. http://www.displayport.org/faq/ I use a Mini DisplayPort 1.2 to HDMI 2.0 active converter to connect my laptop into a 4K display.

 

Very nice! I have promised myself I would not have buyers regret but you might hear quite chanting in the background ("I <3 my laptop").

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You are sure the new AW models is already shipped with new improved famous "Tripod" heatsink? And when will we see normal working models? Thought this below was Dellienware's fix. Or maybe I have missed something?


http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...6-owners-lounge.797457/page-177#post-10407013

 

@win32asmguy. Are you going to delid and apply liquid metal to CPU?

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Ok good news!

 

As you can see there is no, absolutely no advantage purchasing JokeBook's. Only drawbacks, you get only filth. Major disadvantages. In an emergency, Buy a cheap TrashBook for max $ 500 usd. Otherwise, no thanks!! Either a self-built desktop, laptop with proper socket hardware or forget computers

 

Right on, and well said. If I can't have what I want, then I want nothing at all. Better to do without than to compromise on what matters. You at least get the satisfaction of depriving the trashbook makers of receiving money for garbage.

 

Ignore this @rinneh dumdumb garbage comment

All the heatsink is same shape, if anything, they make stamp thicker and bend arm at factory







@Mr. Fox , I actually ran 4.4 on cb15 and got 955 point, 1.41v

 

Nice accomplishment. Did you cool it on AC?

 

We will see if you still do not have any regret once Eurocom releases the Tornado F5 w/GTX 1080 150W (check the specifications listing for GPU's).

Yes, but probably not at first. I plan to order a second unit in a couple of weeks to be able to have a backup and something that my fiancee can play games on.

 

I did in the office because ac is available.

But maybe can run it on air but haven't tried, heatsink looks strong enough for 100+w on cpu.

Boss gave me a weird look when I asked if turning the AC to cold is allowed or not heh.






Funny thing, I had to set the voltage to 1.4+ to compensate vdroop/llc and multiplier to 46 when running it. Not really sure why the voltage acts like this.


Currently it is the fastest 6820HK recorded on Cinebench15.

http://hwbot.org/submission/3388975...___r15_core_i7_6820hk_955_cb?recalculate=true

 

What do you feel are dumdumb garbage with this comment? Dell's ingenious fix? If Aw owners want upgrade to later-newer bios versions... Will they be screwed and have to use the older Bios/Ec version whatever new fix who coming? Or is the newest Bios working as intended?

Nice score Maybe go for +1000cb aka a wimpy 4.5GHz overclock

 

@rinneh is the dumdumb garbage, not you. You're smart papu, I like you.

 

Well, let's be nice though. No need to call names. I disagree with a lot of what he and others say, but saying mean or derogatory things about specific individuals by name isn't the right way. @rinneh deserves to be treated with kindness and respect.

But, I'm all for bashing OEMs though... fire away and keep those malicious insults flying. It's all good because they deserve to be bashed repeatedly and incessantly for selling garbage.

 

Ok I'll try.

@rinneh I love you <3


Did I do good?

 

Yes, much better. Thanks.

Let's do virtual kumbaya now.

Edit: And, for the record, all smart people love Brother @Papusan. He's very special to us all. And, I mean that.

 

Jokebook's and the producers of this trashware aka costly filth is the BIG problem. Not the people WHO own it... Some people want actually to purchase thin low-performing laptops. I will never understand this!! But that does not mean someone is stupid because they choose as they do. And afterwards will OEM's only produce more of the same trash when enough people buy that. But thanks for the nice words
And I like @rinneh He talk alaways about hardware and will never attack people, although they have opposite opinions about hardware.

Thanks bro Fox

 

changing the thermal compound dropped temps by 30c, changing the staff at dell factory dropped the heatsink engineering team's IQ by 30

 

Only by 30?

 

But Dell's engineering team know how to reduce the problem Continue with the same low-end thermal paste will keep earnings at a normal level

 

You've got to be kidding me... I like how not one of @Stooj's points, all entirely valid and rational, were hardly even addressed by everyone else, who just go on hating BGA, on and on and on...

It's simple. BGA is an implementation, a very, very, very useful implementation of silicon on a board. Tell me you don't want light smartphones--that you want to lug a brick around to call people, just because you can Upgrade The Components™. An MXM GTX 970M costs $700. My entire motherboard, which has a BGA GTX 860M (but an rPGA socket, which I don't really find a use for), costs $230. There you go.

Also, thin-and-light machines are produced primarily because there is a huge market for them. Most people want something that weighs several hundred grams to a kilogram, maximum, that gets their basic work done, like e-mails, word processing, spreadsheet crunching, surfing the Web, etc. They don't buy high-performance because they don't want and don't need high performance, simple.

The enthusiast market, however loud it is, is extremely small. We have to be content with being relegated to the side, because we are in the extreme minority. Fight for what is right, definitely, such as nVidia's clockblock, but don't bother fighting against market trends.

 

I'd pay more for a iPhone with bulkier removable battery.

 

You're absolutely right. The comparison between BGA and smartphones are 100% correct. BGA hardware is not synonymous with high performance. Just look at what people put in their desktop rigs. Would people Put NVIDIA TITAN X with Intel® Core™ i7-6700T Processor in their desktop rig?

 

Nobody acknowledged those point simply because we don't care. It's nothing personal. Hating BGA filth is very healthy. Expressing that contempt is also healthy.

What others want and need is not important, primarily because they already have what they want and need, and there is no need to validate wants and needs. We are on the short end of the stick now with hardly any acceptable options left to choose from, so we don't need to care or make any concessions for BGA fanboys.

I also believe in grassroots efforts to turn the tide on sheeple-think. It can be very effective, and I think it's worth all the effort. It is incumbent upon us to not give up as long as we can draw breath. This is a war and nobody wins wars by surrendering. It would be better to die as a martyr and influence as many as possible in the process to inflict as much damage as possible on our enemies. When I say enemy I am referring to the scumbag OEMs that cater only to people that want turdbooks, not the turdbook lovers at the end of the food chain. End users are not our enemies... they are the subjects of our proselytizing efforts.

The enthusiast market appears to be growing slowly as more and more turdbook gamer boys are getting burned with anemic garbage that doesn't meet their expectations. There will always be a stupid majority that is a ball and chain to the intelligent minority, so we have to make stupidity a unpopular trend. Again, not a personal insult as much as an observation laced with righteous indignation and an extra dose of hyperbole.

And, the marketing folks just have to buck up and take it like a man, knowing that the elitist minority will never be their customer, never drink their Kool-Aid and never have anything nice to say about their disposable soldered junkbooks.

And, after all, this is the BGA venting thread. Did you expect to see something different here, of all places?

 

I dont get why people still call it a tripod mount, since its one big heatsink with in total 7 screws. It is true the pressure is now asymmetric. But with the right pressure of springs it should work and this is where it goes wrong. Too many tolerances which can cause an issue like this. But some users did report perfectly even core temps on machines that arrived this week. Why do people blow this up so much while they for example ignored the P870DM3 warped heatsink issues? Its like TV entertainment.

You know my stance on this .

Still dont consider it low performing, even though the CPU is a bit lower performing that a full desktop CPU ofcourse. Just my user cases are much more different than for example yours. Portability is for me so much more important and with that comes the requirement for a durable outside chassis as well. If the durability x performance x reliability x portability factors are not good enough, the laptop does not suit my needs. For example the GIgabyte that I had. Crossed 2 of those factors. But was not reliable or durable in anyway, so I got it exchanged. The MSI whitebook barebone, comes close to being a machine that I would like to have, but I have my doubts about the chassis quality for example. So in the end the only current laptop that fits my needs would be the AW15R3 if I would buy a laptop now. If the heatsink became more rigid ofcourse. I do not like to modify the heatsink right out of the box.

For me the upgrade ability is still not a factor. Simply because of price. I refuse to pay over inflated prices out of principle.

 

Why not call a spade a spade? Tripod fits nicely as name for this bomb created by Dellienware. 3 or 7 screws, does not really matter. Mounting the cpu heatsink part with only 3 screws are now Razer and Dell's ingenious idea. Maybe there is a reason why the other ODM-OEM's choose 4 screws for the cpu part of shared heatsink? And same for desktops.
Soon there is no difference between hardware used in Dell and Aw's machines. It will be the same MB and heatsink. Why pay higher price for the skull and slightly different Dell design?



Welcome to the future

 

It's the same heatsink manufacturer so I am not surprised anyway they use a similar mounting. Almost all laptops use some sort of flexible mounting. May it be springs on in this case a more leaf spring styled mounting. In the end it is to prevent errors during manufacturing from poorly trained staff. Using a fully rigid system as with some desktop coolers that you can overtighten if not careful, needing better trained factory workers. Unfortunately that is the case with all manufacturers out there.

Still the new batches seem to have rectified it. Isn't that what counts in the end?

 

I was wondering about a distant future where the equivalent computing power to what we have today has been shrunk down to an unbelievably small size. Say the whole computer fits in a pair of glasses (that happen to be ultra high resolution monitors). Let's assume there is no throttling because there are no thermal issues. These are quantum entanglement devices using photons instead of electrons or some scifi bs like that =P

My real question is what would be the right price point for this new device (adjusting for inflation)? If the glasses cost too much, then you have a problem because they are easy to lose or break. Let's also assume the device is monolithic with no replaceable parts. If the thing breaks for some reason you have to replace the whole thing.

The price point is really everything. And in that distant future it probably makes more sense for the device to be on the cheap side and have vey high speed internet connection available everywhere so most of the compute and data storage can be offline.

 

One thing that really confuses me about all of these BGA systems is the nonsense choices that manufacturers are making with them.

For instance, the AW17R4 is Dell's flagship gaming laptop. Why in the world do they offer it with a 6700HQ? Is it a pricing issue, because I think every single person sinking over $1500 can likely afford the extra $100 if Intel charges that much more for it than the 6700HQ. Is it a supply issue? I suppose, because a few people have said that Dell Reps told them that they were out of processors as a build delay. Then again, Auros has a complete 6820HK lineup and is shipping their models just fine. I think the real reason is psychological. They want users to upgrade every year, and to make an owner feel bad about their purchase they need to make the more future-proof 6820HK harder to purchase, by bundling it with required upgrades that will also make you feel like you need a new machine too (QHD 120hz or 4k screen).

Then we have another instance of my HP Zbook Studio. Its a great machine: slim, lightweight, long battery life, head turner design. But, its BGA, so I am at the mercy of what CPU/GPU configuration HP decides to offer. So, its available with a CPU only - which is great - the Nvidia GPU just generally adds more noise and heat to a system this thin. Yet, the IGP video runs sluggish if I try to connect this machine to multiple external displays and use it as its advertised. Intel makes a better integrated GPU, the Iris Pro, which I know handles multiple external monitors great due to using the Skull Trail NUC. So HP does offer this model with the Iris Pro GPU, but only as a configuration that includes the Nvidia dedicated GPU! I think there may be a real supply issue behind the scenes though, because at this point nobody is offering a 6770HQ laptop, not even Apple, and Iris Pro i7's were generally available back in the Haswell generation.

Don't even get me started on Razers silly new "desktop" (yes, I watched their press conference). Almost $4000 for a 6700HQ and a GTX 1080 that performs like a GTX 1070. I guess at least they decided to solder 32GB of RAM onboard instead of 16GB. Maybe next year they can solder the SSD too!

Sorry for my little rant. I sincerely hope that the MSI 16L13 is going to be an awesome system. I think MSI may have significantly improved the keyboard on these models (16L13, GT62VR) because using the GT62VR in the store it was a night and day difference between the previous GT72 keyboard from last year. No mush, no weird random character repeats, much better tactile feedback. It still has a subpar layout, but its a lot closer to the quality you would get with an Alienware keyboard, or even the P650RS for that matter. I actually used a P750ZM in the first half of 2015 at a previous job. Amazing performance, but the keyboard was very hard to type on. My boss actually resorted to just getting us a Logitech Bluetooth keyboard to use with it if we were on the road. Sadly I couldn't take the P750ZM with me (the company owned it) but it was definitely an amazing machine other than that keyboard. I have heard similar problems exist with the current Clevo LGA systems too, which was actually a big part of the reason why I went with the MSI instead of the Clevo equivalent.

 

the new batches of alienware actually ship with 1.0.8 bios which decreases the temps through artificial throttling and (what I think) a more aggressive fan curve



more like a bandaid fix, their cooling system is good but mounting wise it's still trash

 

Here we go TRIPOD Maybe the Chinese were forced by DELL to cut down on the metal? The metal was used elsewhere?


THANKS @Mobius 1

Spoiler: CHINESE "TRIPOD" VENDOR... A no-name brand subbed-in to increase profits

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...6-owners-lounge.797457/page-186#post-10408114

 

People would prefer to just pile hate on to things from the safety of their perceived high horses. I worded my original post as reasonably as possible, to respond to @FredSRichardson 's fair question as I hoped that maybe it would generation a reasonable discussion and maybe even generate some positive outcomes which could be taken to Clevo to actually make things better. I suppose coming up with valid suggestions requires too much thought.

There are representatives of many resellers who actively look for our feedback here and I'd hate to be in their position of tip-toeing between the absolute volatility of some users here while still appeasing the masses. Props to you guys!

All in all, for an enthusiasts group, it's quite disappointing and a stark contrast to other hardware boards. As a systems integrator myself, I would absolutely hate to be a Clevo (or any ODM) representative who happens upon this thread or many like it. To be frank they probably just don't care. The BGA hate train, as loud as it is, is simply the "loud minority". Fact is, people who are satisfied with their laptops and are simply enjoying them don't say a thing online.

The great irony is, those of you who make a point of hating on BGA or whatever else (really applies to anything) are your own worst enemies. You devalue your own opinions to such a point that even your valid criticisms are ignored.

Good lord man...people like the KKK and Neo Nazi's say that kind of thing. Replace "BGA" with a minority or race of your choice and your post reads like a hate-speech recruitment poster


To everyone else, if you think you can do it better then why not stop wasting your energy here and actually get something done for a change. Start a project yourself and put your money where your mouth is. If even half the effort here went into actually building something better we'd all be better for it. I'm not even kidding here, many hardware projects if well thought out, gain significant traction. For example, recently the Eve V tablet and GPD Win handheld PC absolutely demolished their funding goals. Thinking about getting the GPD Win myself (oh noes it's BGA!).

 

It's pretty feeble when BGA-lovers have to pull the racist card because they cannot justify an honorable basis for the existence of garbage. This is about having minimum standards and being unwilling to compromise on filth. But, we will take all the recruits we can get however you would like to cast it. Sometimes the only way to defeat filth and corruption is by creating a culture of contempt and intolerance for it. If that's what it takes, so be it. BGA existed among the superior socketed and slotted options in harmony for years. The only reason it can no longer is the malicious fabrication of a future that doesn't include the better options for those that require them. The intent is to cause severe financial harm to Intel and OEMs that go along with their BGA-only program for notebooks. If end users choose to take it personal, that's their problem and we can't let that silliness get in the way of taking care business or fighting the good fight.

 

Well-said, @Stooj. It's one small step from 'BGA filth' to 'BGA buyers are filth'. Some users have even outright accused BGA users for purchasing such machines. Clevo's P6 series is more popular than their P7 series. It's like car enthusiasts complaining that most cars built are Hondas, Toyotas, and maybe the level higher, like BMWs, Mercs and Audis, when they want their Maseratis and Bugattis to enter the mass market. Never gonna happen, guys.

 

Read one more time http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/bga-venting-thread.798775/page-18#post-10407204 ...... because they choose as they do!! I do not think I've ever seen, someone says or mean "BGA buyer's are filth '.. This is to take it too far.

 

Only a small group of BGA-buyers choose to wear that chip on their shoulders. I believe most of the decisions to purchased BGA garbage are a direct result of ignorance on the part of consumers. The car analogy is not a good one. What we are looking for is a return to normalcy and intelligent design, nothing so extreme as a high end European car becoming mass production. You must be forgetting that mobile Extreme processors were not that long ago. There is nothing exotic about a 6700K, or any other K-series desktop CPU for that matter. These are mainstream CPUs for the segment of computing society that demands something better than the anemic norm. There is no reasonable basis for Intel to offer nothing except for pathetic BGA mobile processors, and there is no honorable excuse for the OEMs that bow to Intel and follow their lead in offering no better options to their customers.

I guess we will see in the end what happens. But, I'm sure as hell not going down without a fight and drawing as much blood (money) from Intel as possible for their stupidity when it comes to offering only poorly binned soldered feces for notebooks. One thing is for certain... you can count on more BGA hate to be generated as the crusade against it being the only offering continues. That is by design. If we can cause the financial harm I am hoping we can, Intel will pay attention. After all, they exist only to make money and they will certainly react to the loss of it.

Agreed. They are not filth. They are human beings and our friends and family. Many are misinformed. Some (a small segment) over overly sensitive about anyone being critical of their buying decisions. The smartest ones, that did it eyes wide open and for reasons they can explain, don't care what anyone else thinks about it.

 

I think some of you guys dont understand it is the whole unit in equation for creating pressure.

See the attached file for details. The heatsink assembly in itself is not a tripod design. But the margins are quite narrow due to this design. So if there is one error in fabrication. For example the heatpipes are not perfectly straight. It wont sit perfectly straight on the chip die. I came across heatsinks with a symetrical screw pattern and even those didn't sit flush because or the heatpipes where not perfectly straight or the spring tension was not equal. The thing is that in this case it can be fixed by creating more pressure on that specific point. I jus prefer a non spring based solution, but this would prevent cheap labor from being able to assemble these laptops in a timely manner. I want to see mountings similar to GPU full cover water cooling blocks for desktop cards. No springs, just a well crafted heatsink and standard screws to assembly it perfectly without any gaps. The danger is, an untrained person can overtighten the heatsink and thus warp the PCB (but maybe thats a bad idea in a laptop due to some flex while in transport? I did some industrial design courses but nowhere to this level).

The heatsink manufacturer is CCI by the way. THey made the heatsinks for the later AW15R2 & AW17R3 batches as well. I actually have both a FCN heatsink in my possession and a CCI in my machine. The FCN wasnt perfectly straight so I replaced it to remedy those 10C core temp differences.

 

I would almost guarantee that the problem uneven temperature between coldest vs. warmest core would never happened with 4 screws on the processor heatsink. Say what you want.. A huge design blister. Alienware is known to create good heasink (design). But this was tragic and should never happened. This heat mess should have been detected much earlier. In the same way that Dell should have discovered the 180w psu with Gtx980M was a failure long before the psu was pushed out with the first Aw "Echo" machines.

 

wtf...

Please tell me you can see the parallels between that paragraph and racist agendas....It's uncanny.

I especially like this one. "Filth and corruption". This is freaking silicon, get real. What about micro-controllers, low power processors, server processors, server farms, different architectures, ultrabooks, ultraportables? How far do you go?

This is just a gem. At what point does this just straight up turn into contempt and intolerance for the users of BGA by extension. This is a very slippery slope which EVERY group to ever hate on some ideal falls down.

My very first post lists many good reasons. All of which are promptly ignored because conflicting ideals can't be held in the same room I guess. Typical.

I'm also not sure you completely grasped that my likening of your posts to racist propaganda =/= actual racism. It's just too hard to ignore the parallels in mannerisms and frankly a non-productive way to consider any subject.

The "holier than thou" attitude is also quite ridiculous.

People will vote with their wallet and you're just going to have to face the fact that they're voting against socketed processors in the majority. High-end gaming notebooks will be relegated to a niche, which Clevo has enjoyed being in for the most part, but I'm sure as they've grown so has their consumer base. This presents opportunity. If you truly believe what you're saying is the way forward, then put your money where you mouth is and build a notebook yourself. It can be done, it just requires effort. Hell, you may even get enough support to do it. It won't be cheap though and it'll be hard as hell.

 

We are not talking about micro-controllers, low power processors, server processors, server farms, different architectures, ultrabooks, ultraportables, or tablets and smartphones. Those are off-topic here and a distraction because they have nothing to do with the fleecing of gullible consumers that think they are purchasing a "high performance laptop" or "gaming notebook" and getting a crippled and inferior piece of garbage instead of what they were led to believe they were buying through deceptive marketing.

Attempting to silence opposition by calling everything one doesn't like racist is an overused political tactic that isn't serving those folks who have used it as well as it once did. We are talking about inanimate objects that are inferior to other inanimate objects. Plus, this is the BGA venting thread. We don't need to acknowledge any legitimate purpose for BGA whenever the application has merit in an application where doing so has no merit. What makes it particularly objectionable is the lack (approaching absence) of superior alternatives. If that means we are "holier than thou" then I will take that as a compliment regardless of how it may have been intended.

If we are going to draw parallels, then we can also ascribe Nazi tactics to Intel and Micro$loth for trying to ram their inferior crap up all of our posterior orifices by making it the only option available in their quest for supreme dictatorship. Some of us actually understand hyperbole and sarcasm are useful tools to incite reflection and thoughtfulness from folks that might otherwise not pull their head out, follow the herd and drink the Kool-Aid just because their friends on Facebook think that junk is something special.

I'd prefer to put my mouth where their money is and interfere with their success, even if the contribution is ultimately too small in measure to correct their despicable actions. And, so I shall. It's absolutely 100% guaranteed they will continue on their undesirable path if we don't make the effort now, and I doubt there is a limit to how low they are willing to go with the BGA nonsense. In other words, I'm choosing to exercise vehement opposition as a solution versus becoming part of the problem by being lazy, having a que sera sera attitude toward it, and accepting the unacceptable.

 

While I do appreciate hearing opposing opinions - let's face it, this thread will draw them - I would like to discourage the use of thread-killing language (i.e. comparisons of folks here to various hate groups) since there is no way in which that is appropriate.

I'm not sure I believe that anyone who is a notebook enthusiast is truely "pro BGA" (i.e. "Yay! I just bought an ultra-thin throttling heat-slab!"). But BGA systems are the only option for thin laptops. Some of us would like to play games on the road and there may be real constraints on the size and weight of the laptop we can carry. In those cases, the best thing you can do is provide some advice and education into the tradeoffs for the current BGA offerings so an informed decision can be made. Understanding how limited the BGA components are compared to their socketed (let alone desktop) counter parts is quite important when deciding how much to spend. It's one thing to pay an extra $1K so you can have a diamond studded chassis (okay, make that fake diamond studded chassis), it's quite another to spend an extra $1K to have a massively throttled GTX 1080 on the mother board. At least you can see the sparkly faux diamonds - with the GTX 1080 all you get is a sticker with "GTX 1080" on it (which is important since no one would know you have a 1080 based on the systems performance).

I think it reflects very well on these forums that no one came onto my thread while I was trying to make a purchasing decision and said "BGA is crap". That would not have been helpful at the time. I heard the anti-BGA rhetoric elsewhere and wanted to understand the issue better which is what lead me to creating this thread. I now actually agree with many of the anti-BGA arguments - for me there is a price at which a high performance gaming laptop had better have sockets - but while the rhetoric I've heard so far plays very well to the anti-BGA base I'm not sure it is effective at bringing in new recruits to the cause. An effective campaign aimed at growing the anti-BGA base would require a lot of patience and diplomancy and I doubt any of us really have the stomach for that.

The whole BGA issue is a bit of a learning curve. I definitely have a better idea of what one should get at a certain price tag and for a given set of mobility constraints.

 

I do understand and appreciate this viewpoint though I would like to point out that it is helpful to know where BGA is appropriate and where it is not. I personally like to think of it as "BGA is fine on this side of the fence and not fine on that side of the fence". For me that fence is somewhere between $1500 and $2500 for a high performance gaming laptop. I know for others it is lower.

 

There are varying opinions on that and ultimately each person can decide. As long as it works out that there are better options for those that want them it's all good. Sadly, that is not the case and it is not all good. What is truly horrible is seeing big and expensive machines that would be desirable if they were not BGA (to those that know better) and unwitting consumers buying those behemoths with the belief they are getting something superior when the exact opposite is true. I am referring to machines like the MSI Titans and the gigantic Acer Predator monsterbook. The former has a castrated BGA CPU and the latter is a eunuch box which has had all of its man-parts removed with BGA CPU and GPU. That is sinful and an inappropriate use of BGA. Those machines, by virtue of their size alone, deserve better than that and so do the customers that buy them and pay out the nose for something they expect to be superior.

 

Very well stated and I completely agree!

I am torn as someone who just plonked down quite a bit for a BGA laptop - no so much because of the hurtful comments that I try to shelter my poor BGA mobo from but more because I am entering into the next echelon of gaming laptop enthusiast and I want the top tier components so I can open up the pipe and run at full bore. That reason alone may cause me to trade up to a socketed system some time in the future (with no regrets mind you )

 

I think there is a fair comparison to auto enthusiasts. I know someone who is one and he said there are very few cars he would consider mainly because he will only drive standard. One was a Subaru and the other was a BMW. As I understood it his main criteria was having fully manual shifting (not the paddle shifters).

Expecting enthusiasts to be happy with an ever shrinking set of viable options doesn't make sense. Expecting enthusiasts to be angry when inferior products are marketed to them (like some of the BMWs) does make sense. Expecting people to stop buying Hondas (or Ultrabooks) of course does not make sense, though even for me this sometimes requires clarification.

I generally like enthusiasts niches because that is where people get really excited about something. They get as prickly as anyone when the thing they are excited about is taken away and replaced with an expensive forgery.