BGA Venting Thread ;)

Add washers and remove c-clips

You can't even use ThrottleStop as before on the newest Alienwares. No access to power limits. From worse to even more worse if it's possible.

Alienware... Dell's gaming flagship Maneuvered by by Frank Azor!


Same as...
Costa Concordia disaster - Wikipedia

 

Ouch, especially for non Windows platforms.

 

Here's the washers. I'm sure you know what we mean by removing the c-clips.

 

i thought it was weird if contact is poor then adding washer will make it worse, so you guys remove the clips for a closer and higher pressure contact instead of shim. what good does adding washers do

also, did you soldered two additional pipes ontop of that?

 

Doesnt change the fact that the MSI GT75 is still part of the BGA group. Plus, when i get told how the “i9-8950HK” is gonna beat the i7-8700K, my toes laugh, really because there is no laptop that is able to tame it without going to the extent of repasting with LM.

if you want to justify your claims, please respond to @Papusan, the convo was really interesting.

Even if a BGA is able to “tame”, it doesnt change the fact that if one core component fails, your entire board is trash. This is the key reason why BGA laptops are disposables, because there is almost no upgrade path or repair capability.

A family member told me that all this BGA nonsense is because of “Business”. when any laptop manufacturer still releases a product despite its instability, like releasing a game without finishing it. But I don’t buy into it.

This is like a crime, instead its not against the law when businesses sell subpar or throttled chips. The worst thing is, people buy into it.

The only respectable laptop I owned was the Alienware 18 R1. It had a couple of issues but not as much as my BGA systems.

 

My 8086k does beg to differ on the 8950hk quite managing to keep up. It's not bad but you can't beat a larger heatsink and desktop type power delivery.

 

u think clevo gonna make a new chassis/heatsink for the 8 cores? or they gonna stick around for another gen just because intel is making their 8 core chip "95w" TDP.

 

Doubtful a new chassis, that would be overkill.

 

Nobody is saying that a I9-8950HK is going to beat a 8700K if cooling and powerlimit are good and unlimited. However in notebooks the cooling and VRMs are insufficient to run a 8700K anywhere near it's actual potential. In this situation it's simply a battle between cooling solutions rather than the actual chips.

And there is no reason to unblock papusan, he usually posts crappy useless screens of very short cinebench runs or screens where the CPU runs idle, it's useless. Unless he posts something useful like a 10minutes rendering test, gaming test etc. (which he never will) it's useless arguing with him. Nobody wants to overclock their CPU to 5.3ghz+ only to stare at the desktop with it, it's absolutely dumb.

CPU's rarely die. Chances that the mainboard dies well before the CPU is extremely more likely. I do think tho, that high end notebooks should have an MXM graphicscard, because unlike CPU's graphicscards do get out of date rather fast.

Ofc it's business, same goes to clevo. They release equal garbage. Reusing the same garbage over and over again. In their new cofeelake revision they even reused the same trash VRM used on a 6700K version. Yeah, we talk 4 phase with mediocre hiFets for a 8700K, designed to blow up in your face if you're stupid enough to overclock your 8700K and actually use it for an extended period of time :'D

But yes, Looking at the new BGA I7, the copy and paste work of clevo, the trash firmware of clevo which prema fixes mostly, subpar build quality of most notebooks, trash support, bad engeneering (dell + razer especially) etc. notebooks are getting worse and worse each generation.

 

A moderator really needs to do something about this guy. Flaming people, trash talking them, posting doctored screenshots, lying blatantly then blocking people when they post the truth is allowed on these forums now?

 

really?

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-overclockers-lounge.788975/page-1627#post-10778360

 

thanks for sharing these infos

 

Yees as you see... Danishblunt walks around like a loose cannon, have no credibility left. All he himself shows is just his doctored screenshots with his Photoshop skills. Yees, @Falkentyne was Right on Target.


Btw. Here is another crappy useless screenshoot I usually post according to mentioned. Stock clocks. Remember to add the needed 1 or 2 bin extra if you have big hope trying to reach same score/goal with the $+600 i9 BGA Scam. Because you won't reach the target with stock clocks.

 

thats the only issue i got with it. with 8 cores coming it could be a major problem. only way to avoid it is run it stock, undervolt a whole lot, or simply grab a binned chip from SL and run it moderately with 8 cores, disabling HT will reduce power consumption too.

now as for using the same $h!t over and over, both pros and cons. if they reuse heatsink/mobo means it'll be a straight upgrade to 8c, just get a binned chip like mentioned above.

if they have a new mobo + cpu heatsink, well yeah gotta spend more but if having more vrms helps and a bigger heatsink, dont mind spending more.

worst is they make u pay for new mobo + heatsink for less performance, which mostly attached to BGA, so your argument doesn't really work here.

 

It was fun while it lasted. Laptops are dead to me now. Option 1: less than $500 for a crappy and anemic web browsing device that is technically overpriced. Option 2: Lots of money for a castrated "high performance" BGA piece of crap that can't be fixed. Option 3: As much or more money for an under-engineered DTR with nice specs on paper that needs a lot of elbow grease and effort to be good. None of them are attractive, but option #1 is the only option that won't cost you an arm and a leg for broken garbage. You still get broken garbage, but the price range isn't as painful. Not everyone has the skill or the desire for #3, and #2 is a monumental waste of time and money no matter who you are or what you know.

 

i would have gone this option http://www.ssiportable.com/products/portable-solutions/spark-s24t/ but a lot of it is non standard size. for example a 240mm probably wouldnt mount nicely on it. and theres also length/height issue for most AIC. need an advanced super short less than 5.5 inch of a powerful GPU..

all of that for reduced cable, bigger screen but still lack battery support.. PSU with built in UPS probably solve the issue but i cant find anything thats over 650w PSU.

 

The goal posts sure did move a lot. We used to like having stock 980 performance from a 980m, now if a 1080 is not matching a massive heatsink 1080 desktop it's a waste of time

I like my mobile gaming platform

 

You would need something like a >40% OC on the core and mem, so 1600MHz+ and 7GHz+, for a 980M to match a stock 980. Not sure how you achieved an OC like that, but I doubt you were running it for anything but short benchmarks let alone 24/7 use.

 

My benchmarking clocks were +50% with both cards. This was with a vmem overvolt and more VRMs soldered on for stability.

 

That's impressive, but what were you running for daily driver use?

 

There was a time when a DTR meant something. It couldn't quite keep pace for pace with a maxed out desktop, but it was head and shoulders above the peer mobile platforms of their time.

Then the ODM decided to shift their offerings because (rightly or wrongly) they perceived the market would settle for less. Less dimensions, less weight, lesser cooling, etc. This in turn lead to decisions to cripple power delivery in EC, lesser power components all in turn to reduce heat, which again ties back to the dimensions and cooling.

If Clevo would take a look at what earned them their reputation, it wasn't for slim, sleek' thin as paper laptops. It was for boxy, dependable systems and for their DTRs used at LAN parties and for the professional. If they can get back to that, and once again engineer us systems that have proper cooling, proper power delivery, and proper performance (yes, at the expense of size and weight), then they would see a lot happier people... At least here at NBR forums.

 

Around about desktop 980 performance in SLI. The cards were very stable right up until that final clocking level. 1700-1750mhz was my memory clock so I ran around 1650Mhz most of the time.

 

That's some pretty bad SLI scaling then. With proper scaling, even stock 980M SLI should be over stock 980 Ti performance.

 

I meant desktop 980 cards in SLI, both mine were running equivalent 24/7. To a very mild factory overclocked reference cars to be fair for 24/7.

 

You were running 980M SLI at 1650MHz core / 1750MHz mem 24/7? How did you cool them and how long did they last?

Got any gameplay videos of that?

 

I would guess he means the notebook version of the 980, not the 980m, but that's only a guess. I remember times when the "m" versions were roughly 1/2 as fast as desktop versions with the same number, I believe what he is saying is that nowadays they are within single digit % points with a huge overlap (overclocked and tweaked notebook version compared to a plain stock version of he same card). A while ago that wasn't even possible in any way no matter how much tweaking you did.

For some that is still not enough.

 

Nah Meaker is talking about the regular MXM-B 980M.

 

Nonsensical comments like these used to be puzzling if not humorous, but it's starting to look more like an act of sad desperation. To be honest, the problem is you, bro. Not @Papusan. Your definition of useful and success doesn't match everyone else's definition. Not everyone uses a system the same as the next person.

Instead of being critical of the valuable information he posts, why not run the same "useless short cinebench runs" with a turdbook to show what garbage the BGA feces is? Is the reason you do not is because it will show you are inappropriately critical of him for spreading truth instead of posting unsubstantiated misinformation based on your hatred of Clevo DTRs? You're so obsessed with being critical and trying to sound like an authority that you totally miss the point. @Papusan has not posted anything suggesting the LGA Clevos have the performance to match a desktop with the same CPU. All laptops are garbage, but the BGA feces is filth on an order of magnitude greater than the LGA Clevo DTRs. You can't push the BGA junk to the level of the LGA Clevo systems. They won't do it because they are inferior. If you have to settle for a screwed up trashbook, the wise will settle for something they can make better with enough effort. The BGA filth can't be fixed.

The overclocked benchmarks @Papusan is posting are real. So are the temps. Instead of getting huffy about him not showing what you want to see, why not show us a BGA system that can match or beat them? Maybe then others will value more of what you have to say and have more respect for your opinions. Oh wait... you can't because there is no such thing as a BGA system that can match or beat them (unless you use Photoshop to create the results).

While agreement is always nice, it is not necessary. Being courteous and communicating in a constructive manner is a personal choice. Being caustic, belligerent, arrogant and rude to specific members of this community is a personal choice as well. A conscientious decision to choose the latter is perplexing and serves no good purpose to the community.

 

I may disagree with some of the opinions here, but I personally think that @Danishblunt tends to take things too far. Faking screenshots are a big no-no. He always ratchets up the rhetoric way too high, way too early. Attacks on persons are also his MO...

I think LGA laptops are over-rated, but it's fact that they perform better than the equivalent BGA ones. To me, portability is a very, very important thing, so I choose to go for the lighter option. I honestly don't care much for 5+ GHz clocks (they're great—on desktops with coolers like the Dark Rock Pro or NH-D15), but for those who need them in a notebook, the form factor is there to cater to them. Having choices and more of them is always better for the consumer, and the move to ditch PGA was—like it or not—highly anti-consumer, anti-environment and anti-repairable.

I'm not dissing the corporations, but it's also fact that they have been very profit-maximising with little benefit to consumers recently, like nVidia with its GPP, GameWorks and Geforce Experience, and Intel's Rebrand Lakes. It's unfortunate that no AMD offering on notebooks can be remotely called 'high-end' just yet, because the 8750H is hexa-core already...

 

Different strokes for different folks.

My personal criteria are long runs and renders with sustained clocks and the laptop not sounding like a f-15.

And while I may enjoy the Cup series the most, I sure do love watching the funny cars wrecking the short runs.

 

More VRMs reduced high load heat, I used liquid metal and a repad in the p570wm along with a 4.3ghz hex core.

 

Those 980Ms must've been dumping out about 200W each under load at that OC. I know the P570WM is a tank but I'm still surprised the cooling could handle it.

 

It wasn't the quietest machine in the world that's for sure but I threw some heavier games at it and it got through it without issue.

 

Just to light up conversation, because without data is a blah-blah, and for the one scared from not enough power phase, here the power comparison between 8°gen. 8086K Vs. 7th Gen. 7820HK (Gtx 1080 equipped)



https://www.notebookcheck.net/Euroc...0-Clevo-P775TM1-G-Laptop-Review.319938.0.html

cutted from Sky x7c review (and cheers!)

 

The low power draw on the X7C is due to the Clevo Contol Center throttling as mentioned in the article. I pull over 300W from the wall running Prime95 and FurMark at the same time.

 

they clearly mention 2 times that the CCC (clevoControlCenter) is bugged and disabled in the run

 

How do you explain XMG's P775TM1-G drawing significantly more power?

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Schen...op-Review.288972.0.html#toc-energy-management

 

this one is not so far from


..or other one total power consumption,
I'm comparing old motherboard power delivery system, assuming that is full doable to sustain this type of load of newer gen cpus

 

Those numbers don't seem massively consistent or reliable in general.

 

when you will produce data other than words, please mind to share here, thanks

 

it is rather unfair to apply papusan's system or benchmark to most due to region he locates in, it shows potentials of the machine with proper fitting conditions, which imo people who have little to no experience will jump at the system thinking it can do wonders which isn't the case. I had to buy a 5.2 chip to run it at sub 5 for my preference and i still over estimated it. i also believe a lot has to do with buyer's own responsibility to know/research, though danishblunt definitely takes it to a new level.

imho @Danishblunt fits "one only believes what they want to believe" best, at least on NBR.

damn i guess you'll hate one of these http://www.ssiportable.com/products/portable-solutions/spark-s24t/

i estimate just over 45lbs after all the hardware are installed, no mechanical drive, all SSDs only too!

sometimes a bit of common sense trumps data, especially data collected by others which lacks that sense. theres a reason why p870tm can come with a 780w PSU and its probably for a good reason.

 

Please share here data, I can only remember Mr.Fox on it, and other like Jerryzago Rengsey etc. with dual psu mod on m18x-r2,

I only saying that the power delivery phases on our motherboard is still strong enough at least to run a 8700K at stock 4,3Ghz clocks (like many trash or not mitx board with less phase on it)

edit and P.S.:
just to put some water on fire,
Would you mind to share, if do you still have around, some benchmark of your 4,8 GHz 3920xm or 3940xm I didn't remeber ..

 

That logic could be applied to any kind of critic, I'm simply stating what appears to look like inconsistent data that perhaps should be taken as a guideline rather than a hard and fast rule to compare machines for what are likely various reasons.

 

I don't hate any company, product or service—they are all inanimate products, not worth being excessively emotional towards.

The weight would kill my shoulder, though. My definition of 'portable' isn't everyone's definition.

I like my notebooks to be within 2.5 cm thick, with mass within 2.5 kg. But like I said, that's my *personal* definition. There are people here to whom the P870/P750 cater to, so let them have it.

We're all here for the advancement of hardware and software, to call out shady, illegitimate tactics by vendors, OEMs and manufacturers, and to make sure everyone gets the best bang for their buck. There's no point in putting down people for what they've purchased.

I've spoken out against @Mr. Fox's vehemence, but recently, I entirely get why he talks like that.

 

The mod firmware from Eurocom is crippled. The power consumption numbers doesn’t fits the actual power this hardware can pull. The numbers is flawed. This isn’t @Prema quality.

 

I deleted a couple of posts. Inflammatory messages and personal attacks are not tolerated here.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/forum-rules.109941/

 

@ole!!!


This can be used to record your desktop. Should be simple to use

Now it should be easy to record handbrake.

 

FYI, guys...

Dell has released the 32 GB SODIMMs for the Precisions. Meaning one can now configure up to 128 GB of RAM.

Bloody expensive, though.

 

Strange, because 300's series chipset support up to 64GB also on xeon E-2176M

https://ark.intel.com/compare/134899,134867



and is listed only as ecc ram so more expensive and in this case limited to 32GBx2banks