BGA Venting Thread ;)

Desktop fans have done it for a while, it's not exactly earth shattering.

 

reminds me the super old old laptop uses vertical fan its hilarious. fans are puny because vertical height was only 1.5-2 inches.

 

My original Acer used a large aluminium heatsink on the x600 which used the incidental airflow of the CPU fan...

 

I think I remember these sounding like RC planes when at full speed.

 

Also reminds me of that gigabyte card...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....r-overclock-radeon-hd-7970.html?source=images

 

That is difficult to look at.

 

XXBOX HUEG!!

 

Yeah, it's a very "unique" style.

 

Finally have Dell understood it. Offer Extended Battery Service for their notebook models. The well known DELL Hybrid Power Systems adopted from MSI have it's price Maybe MSI as well should offer this service @Falkentyne ?

$89 usd ain't bad...
ENGINEERED TO WREAK HAVOC.

 

Its because of most people buying Extended warranty for 2yrs or more and Dell refuse to replace battery since its not covered. That's the reason I opted out of extended warranty.

 

Whatever the reason, the hybrid power "feature" @Papusan mentioned is utter crap no matter what brand it is.

 

With the advancements in power supply tech it really should not be needed.

 

It's only because batteries can carry a separate warranty from the rest of the system. Otherwise such a service wouldn't be needed.

 

Bump! The Ugly truth about Jokebooks...


With a normal laptop this could be fixed within a few hours if you had access to a shop near you. As well a Hell lot cheaper. But with everything soldered... Good luck.

17R4 out of warranty repair and I'm now Screwed!!

@Mr. Fox @Ashtrix @jclausius @Falkentyne @Vistar Shook @Arrrrbol @j95 @Vasudev +++ all other not mentioned but not forgotten. Yeah, the Ugly truth about Jokebooks...

 

How does a CPU just die one week after the warranty expires?
How is that possible?

 

I can overhaul my entire ranger for 1500.

 

You mean 4 months or better say 15 weeks later is much better?

 

Maybe they are programmed to failr right when the warranty ends lol

 

Typical Dell Voodoo curse!

 

Its 600-800$ for my BGA board w/o shipping to India.

 

Or with the number of machines sold there is always going to be someone with a failure around then

 

@Papusan @Mr. Fox

Intel launched their refresh to Xeon, DC market with Cascade Lake AP at top end of 56 Cores.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14146/intel-xeon-scalable-cascade-lake-deep-dive-now-with-optane


https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-cascade-lake-xeon-optane,6061.html
And guess what ? A Xeon Platinum is now a damn BGA at 5903 pins ball solder. Look at the BS Intel is making at also 400W TDP, for dual XCC dies.

However the Xeon below Platinum is still LGA 3647, the pricing is obviously insane at 18K for the XCC 28C part.

I guess Intel doesn't have an option to compete with AMD at their upcoming 64C/128T high core count so they opted for the Glued down processors as the last minute ditch effort. But with BGA as and forcing the Motherboard specs and options to Intel puts too much power to dictate IMHO.

I hope this madness (perhaps get the business with moving away from the existing 8 Socket Platinum 9000 Xeon to dual socket in the mean time until 10nm, 8 socket exists with the below 9000 SKUs btw) ends with Ice Lake SP with rumored LGA 4189 at 10nm.

 

I had enough of Ball grid Array and now they use Infinity fabric like concept to bind BGA and LGA to make it inferior.
I think AMD chiplet design should come to laptops and dual CPUs as well. Forget AW for dual CPU design as it will melt the laptop with inferior cooling to make the end user a real life Iron (wo)man.

 

It's all about the ODMs (Intel, AMD and NVIDIA) creating and maintaining their respective monopolies in the space they want to occupy and playing the part of the Nazi that controls what happens with the products they hope to sell. To hell with customers... we're all too stupid to make our own decisions. What would we do if they were not making them for us?

 

To be fair a lemon is not going to be bought as the previous generation would make it pointless usually.

Competition never hurts of course so AMD impacting on the server market and Intel approaching the GPU market is all good news.

 

If what Intel brings to the GPU market is awesome and priced right, it will most definitely be good news. If it is not, it will be difficult to find it relevant (as AMD has proven to be mostly irrelevant in the GPU market for about a decade).

And, I'm all for pulling NVIDIA off of their high horse and having someone else steal the flagship performance GPU flag from them... long overdue. Let's just hope Intel and/or AMD actually do that. Would be even better if both did it. Then we'd have a lovely and bloody GPU war on our hands and we might all stand to profit as a result of that.

 

AMD have remained irrelevant in the notebook market for the most part but in the entry level desktop and low midrange they have had an impact still. Hopefully that too can at least improve I agree.

 

I'd love to see some real competition in flagship consumer GPUs, but I wonder if we'll see it heat up in the enterprise space first.

 

Hard to say. I really want AMD to do great in the overclocking enthusiast and pro gaming arenas, but I get kind of a sick feeling that AMD are only focusing on consoles, low cost budget gamer solutions and Enterprise rather than targeting the enthusiast market that Intel and NVIDIA have restrained by our short hairs. I'd really love to see them release Ti- and Titan-killer GPUs and CPUs/chipsets that overclock their cores and memory modules better than Intel, but I am not optimistic that they will.

 

If only. Though if I'm honest I don't even need something that stomps the TI/Titan to happen, I just want enough competition to drive prices down.

 

I'm actually surprised Intel hasn't gone with (large) BGA Xeons until now (they have small lower power IOT/Networking BGA Xeons already which are fantastic).

The reality is, socketed processors are worthless in highly scalable applications (where these CPUs will see the most use). If you have a suspected CPU failure, any good hardware maintenance contract will have the entire node/blade/chassis swapped out in replacement. It costs far less in time to do that, than try to debug and replace individual components inside a data-centre.

 

I guess when thinking "they don't pay hardware techs $XX per hour to salvage and test $XX,000 CPUs and GPUs off a dead rack unit omgwtfbbq???" we're looking at the price list RRP of the parts with their (from consumer pov) insane markups and not the actual cost of replacement for the OEMs or manufacturers

 

The cost is in replacement time and SLA. For companies running dozens of racks full of these things, they'll want a tech out there and hardware replaced in <4 hours, if not sooner. With that kind of time restriction, it's far easier to replace the whole thing.

Then when it comes to debugging that can be done off-site.

More importantly, current high end LGA cpus tend to be CTO by the server manufacturer, not installed by the end user. The users buy an entire "server", if the CPU dies they don't care how it gets fixed or replaced, so long as it's done fast.

 

I don't think Intel first revision GPU will be RTX 2080 killer at 400$ price. AMD and Intel GPUs will go neck-to-neck but nonetheless perf/$ will be higher on Intel because AMD focused its efforts on CPU and it has paid off. You see, those who controls CPU market gains a sizeable share than GPU because enterprise purchase everything in bulk and prefer raw performance on stock clocks and won't OC anything.

 

AMD doesn't control anything other than the console market. They have gained a ton of share (going from zero to around 30% is nothing to dismiss and deserves some recognition) but they're not far enough along to claim any kind of victory or control of anything yet with respect to computers at this point. They will have to continue to increase market share at this rate and sustain it over a long span of time before it represents holding a position of leverage in any market.

Regardless of what one's brand preference is (if they actually have one--some of us don't care about brand, only results matter) I think it is safe to say that it is not going to be easy because Intel and NVIDIA both play dirty and neither company takes kindly to the notion of playing second fiddle. And, both have the money and power to play hardball. I hope AMD makes enough profit to call their bluff and go tit for tat because that will benefit all consumers. We should avoid being influenced by investors, as short term gains are often not a good indicator of future success... they're just in it to make a fast buck. They'll bank whatever they can, however they can, as often as they can. (So would I, if I were an investor.) Unless they are lousy at what they do for a living they don't love AMD, (or any other company,) they only love the money they can make, while they can make it.

 

4K gaming or even 4K movie watching, 1080TI barely keeps up with that, and I've got a 4K 55" TV I'm working on daily.

Same for CPU, I do video editing and processing on a daily basis, but also gaming, 8700K is barely enough for that. 8700K is barely enough for photo editing in photoshop once your images are 6-9Kper side...

 

Struggles with 4k movie watching?

 

That's a new one to me, I don't think I've seen much issue running 4K movies on anything.

 

The Intel IGP can accelerate that. The 9900k is a big advantage for high end video work.

 

Intel just didn't make this BGA because they can and to satisfy SLAs of repairs, I don't even know what is the failure rate of these, never seen a consumer chip failed. There's a reason behind this, first of all this is Cascade Lake - AP, that means it's not the SP class a.k.a the true Xeons. And then it was mentioned across all the mainstream tech sites that it's the competition to the EPYC ROME, but in reality that's not the case.

Primary reason is the official roadmap itself is this is successor the Xeon Phi line. Intel has no XCC dies which go past 28C which is where the SKL-SP ended at LGA3647 and the current Cascade Lake -SP on the existing 14nm++ node. And the another primary reason this went to that glued down approach is to reduce the racks to half width (space savings with Liquid cooling) and accommodate more processing of the AVX512 of Xeon Platinum 9000 series in compact spacing for HPC deployments, which the Xeon Phi did and failed so it was EOLed since Nvidia ate that HPC niche market. And if you look more there are quite a few areas which Intel lost going this massive BGA route for the stop gap solution. Notice, there's no UPI anymore, it's used in these 9000 series internally and 2S that too 4 links unlike the Xeon 8000 series SP with triple UPI links, and no 8S (8 Socket) support.

So they had to abandon the socket for achieving all those and unless the software/OS doesn't see these Xeon 9000 Platinums will show as dual socket system (So again NO licensing cost cuts as single socket for VM products). So the upcoming Cooper Lake SP might have the EMIB/Foveros type interconnects to spawn a new MCM era or the Ice Lake SP, when the new architecture comes out.

Plus there might be another refresh this year successor to the X299 as Cascade Lake X platform a.k.a X499 (or whatever since AMD shamelessly stole the naming scheme), if they go socketless a.k.a BGA that means 400W not going to work at ALL for the consumer spectrum. And there's a lot of ecosystem there with these sockets. And the motherboard PCB layers will be less with BGA as well.

Going BGA is BS to everyone, It doesn't solve any problem and in-fact introduces a ton of them to solve. Why would Intel make a BGA Xeon and then make the HEDT again with a socket ? Too stupid because former needs more R&D and everything than the Consumer space where often these are the cut down parts from the top cream. I was worried that their new LGA4189 socket is dead but It's not and that's a huge sign of relief.

With the processor costs at 5 Digits and the motherboard contracts going at these Enterprise levels, I highly doubt you just go and remove the whole rack it takes a lot of time to get everything back online, better to bounce the HW after the CPU replacement, much better and faster.

 

madVR - More intensive than most games on the GPU. High-end chroma upscaling

madVR - More intensive than most games on the GPU. High-end chroma upscaling.

Not all movies I have are 4K, and in fact, most aren't, so I need to upscale them to look good on a 55" display. 1080TI is barely enough for that, if using more aggressive algorithms.

 

That's not really 4k movie playback though, that's just fancy 1080p up-scaling

 

Doesn't upscaling cause blurry image and video quality? Usually reverse looks more crisp. Downscaling from 4k to FHD looks more crisp.

 

I'm guessing he is using a really heavy upscaling algorithm to play it back on the fly. I'd image it could actually be something the AI core stuff in the 20xx series could be quite good at.

 

I think he's using 1080Ti and not RTX. Then again, upscaling using Ai with limited sample space and on real time video cuts the performance to average or mediocre. If its a fast approx guessing algorithm then you might be able to get decent performance, but computations will be quite high.

 

Yes but a 1080ti is just about able to keep up so you have that compute along side the extra AI cores.

 

4K content also needs chroma upscaling because any content you watch was compressed with lousy compression algorithms to not take up a lot of space. 1080p content upscaling is where things get fancy because you can make it look better than native 4K if blended with the right algorithms

Downscaling from 4K to 1080p isn't an option, that's the whole point, if the display is already 55" and 4K, I need to get everything to proper 4K content. The thing is, even 4K videos need to be upscaled.

using madVR, with proper settings can make 1080P look as good as native 4K content, but again, the point was that it consumes a LOT of time. Blurry isn't the only issue, there's a lot that can go wrong at high resolutions and large display areas, like edges being too thin or thick, aliasing, etc. Often, the image can get too sharp rather than soft.

Sadly, that's not the case, the AI cores can't do NNEDI properly quite yet, so for an upgrade I need a better overall RAW single GPU, madVR can't do multi-GPU processing, because each frame is processed independently, can't process one frame per GPU real time.

That's the point, there are algorithms that look really amazing visually. The point is to do it real time. Check out here: http://madvr.com/

I am not sure anything can look visually better than madVR, but it is really heavy on the GPU at high resolutions and with high quality NGU processing.

 

You cant make 1080p look better than native 4k, the original information is not there.

 

Of course, but you can get really close. Also, badly encoded 4K will look worse than well encoded 1080 upscaled well.

I've seen files that were ~3 GB for the 1080 file, and ~2 GB for the 4K file, situation in which the upscaled 1080 file actually looks better.

 

Well it's not really 4k at that point it's just pretending to have that output.