BGA Venting Thread ;)

Hey, I'm not claiming any of this is easy. =) But possible? Yes, I think this is possible and maybe even worthwhile.

I know there are lunchbox computers that run on batteries. I don't know how much work it took to create those systems.

But honestly, if power management is a huge hassle then I would focus on a portable high performance gaming rig that is plugged in.

At least that is the backoff plan. Having it run on batteries would be better - and I'm not convinced that this is beyond the scope of mere mortals.

 

Well here is the second problem with batteries. Regulations over the max capacity allowed. 99wh.

 

Yes, 4 hours of operation means you have to run at 25 Watts by stepping down the CPU and GPU.

Even having the battery act as a UPS would be something. I know there are hooks for this in Windows.

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I am beginning to think that for a portable high performance gaming system battery operation is the least important problem to solve:

• In battery mode you will not have a high performance system - it will be clocked down to something that can run on batteries for a while
• Folks who care about setting OC benchmarks don't run on batteries (at least not that I've heard of)
• Folks who want to play "AAA games" don't expect to do that on batteries
• These rigs would not likely be great for toting around in a backpack and opening up at a Starbucks or in class or on an airplane. It's more likely to be something you would use in your hotel room, in your dorm, at your parents or in-laws house or somewhere else on vacation where you have an outlet.

 

Here's proof-of-concept #1:



I think this is a generic case, but BSI computer sells this as a "LitePAC" and you can configure it with a i7-6700K. They list GPU options which look dated, but based on those you might be able to put in a full length desktop GTX 1070.

The size is reasonable at 16.41" x 12.4" x 4.39" but the estimate weight is 35 lbs (!!). BSI offers this with an ASUS MAXIMUS VIII GENE mATX motherboard.

So a rugged portable with generic off-the-shelf components that might support a gaming video card. That's pretty close if a bit heavy. At least it's pretty thin at under 5".

EDIT: I think the next challenge would be getting this thing under 20 lbs...

 

most of these you quote from, almost all of them originate from ssiportable, of course there are other ones out there like next gen technology, ipctechnology. if u gonna go that big might as well go all out, 35KG with everything added inside, and a customized backpack.

 

hey guys, favourite BGA machine http://hothardware.com/news/acer-predator-21-x-gaming-notebook-with-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-sli just on looks alone.

all soldered cpu/GPU only $9000, thats not so much totally worth it for the BGA hardware

 

I came across TRANS2000 by looking at the reseller link on ssiportable - so yes it comes from ssiportable

As you say there are many companies that offer rugged portable computing solutions.

I find this pretty reassuring as I'm sure you do since the leap from that to rugged high performance gaming computing solutions is not gigantic. The "LitePAC" listed above is sold in some version (with the same name) by several parties and comes very close to what I would accept. The case does not match any of the ones on ssiportable but I'm pretty certain it is generic. I wouldn't mind finding the source.

(note that the LitePAC is estimated at 35lbs - not 35kgs or 77 lbs).

 

Wow, that is so .... wrong.

 

the quality standard of desktop CPU versus laptop BGA overclockable CPU.. LMAO. even the potato standard which I consider pretty good, would destroy any BGA laptop cpus.

http://media.bestofmicro.com/5/P/639133/original/Chip-Quality.jpg

 

There's just something about "Acer laptop" and "$8999" that does not sound right in the same sentence...

 

I fix it for you. 9999 Euros = $10 405,34 US http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/acers-predator-21-laptop-with-curved-screen-costs-9999-euro.html

 

Acer should hang their heads in shame. 21" and obsolete unupgradable BGA crap. I guess they got the Predator name right - $10,000 is predatory

@AngelOvTeOdd
Lol predictive text error. fixed

 

Weird, but OK.



Not a whole lot of respect for Acer notebooks. Still, the worst laptop I ever serviced remains a Fujitsu.

 

Everything about it insists upon itself.

 

LOL 10k per year or 2, cause theres no upgrade for the latest.

if they had done say traditional display just ultra wide without curving surely they could have lower that cost by a good chunk. honestly 9k is absurd even for socket hardware, i was thinking 5k and maxed out specs maybe 7k but this along with its soldered stuff just LOL

 

It has all the makings of a legend in its own mind.

 

So I have to ask you guys, @Mr. Fox @TBoneSan @Papusan

What would your criteria be for a DIY system focused on performance with commodity hardware?

I'm mainly interested in what you would be willing to sacrifice to make this dream a reality:
A DIY high performance gaming system that is portable and uses commodity desktop hardware.

Let's pretend for now that you are will to sacrifice battery powered operation. Mainly because that is too hard a problem to solve right away and to be fair you won't be doing any higher performance computing or gaming on battery power.

So what are the critical criteria in terms of:

• size (mainly how thick can it be?)
• weight
• form factor - would you consider a "lunchbox"?
• cost

Any other considerations?

As a straw man, I believe you could put a desktop i7-6700K and a GTX-1070 into this.

http://www.bsicomputer.com/products/litepac-4659


It is 4.39" thick which is nice, but weight may be an issue. This is meant to be a rugged enclosure so I think it may weight upwards of 20 lbs on it's own.

On the plus side the build quality is probably better than anything you've seen in a gaming laptop. Aaaand, no brick! The PSU is inside =P

 

imho and this is just me, doing a project like this would be meaningless if specs isn't high end, cause there are laptops out there capable of 2x 1080 and same processor along with battery at similar cost.

if one was to go through with this i'd say very niche area, say for example multi display type (S9T or S24T), or capable of fit 3 powerful graphics card or lots of storage, or a more powerful CPU than just 6700k ie more cores which needs specific desktop mobo.

cost wise, S24T chassis is around $3500, with all the premium hardware inside its around 7k, for my build its 6 cause i only need 1 graphics card and water cooling off an 8cores, to sacrifice battery replacing it with a regular bulky UPS.

 

Yes, I agree on a high end system. I was picking the 6700K and desktop GTX-1070 (or GTX-1080) since that pushes the upper limit of what we're seeing in a laptop. It's quite possible that higher end CPU's could be put in these boxes - the nice thing is that there is quite a bit more flexibility

But a high performance mobile desktop system has a lot of overlap with the very high end laptops with desktop components. About the only loss is the lap form factor and the battery, but you have to sacrifice something.

The benefit is that you can probably keep the case for several generations as you upgrade cpu/mobo/gpu/psu over time. Really a pretty nice benefit.

EDIT: Yes, the S24T or S9T are very nice enclosures and a sweet system (you could have 3 4K monitors =P)! It goes up in thickness to 10.5" but I think you can still put it in the overhead compartment on a plane which is important. And you can use standard large mobos which is even better.

 

its pretty good man, it has some build in audio system too though i wouldnt think its any good haha. its got 3 display, a standard size PSU slot, only issue is mobo and pcie card location is upside down of a regular desktop mobo which kinda sucks.

the s9T comes with a keyboard but its not backlit, the s24T doesnt come with a keyboard, kinda lame if you want the bigger option you know.

 

I really love the P870DM-G and DM3. Both are excellent products and the DM-G would be fantastic if it could take at least one 1080. The only reason I sold the DM-G and purchased the DM-3 is because I could not upgrade it to 1080 SLI. That was a real pisser. It still kind of ruffles my feathers if I dwell on it too much.

To be honest, I don't think I would even want something like what is shown in those two examples. They are too unattractive, and not nearly as travel friendly as a real DTR laptop. I would just build a real desktop instead, and have something like what I already have for portable mayhem. Actually, what I already have outperform the vast majority of desktops anyway. It's only the more exotic benching stations with hexacore and greater CPUs, SLI Titan GPUs and unconventional cooling systems that can soundly beat the performance of the P870DM3.

Part of the reason for my feeling this way is that I honestly use my laptops as laptops... meaning in my lap. I've never had anything but pleasure with my 17 or 18 inch notebooks sitting in my lap in my living room recliner or a hotel room easy chair. I'm so used to the big DTRs that my 15 inch P750ZM seems extraordinary small sitting in my lap. In fact, I am so used to bigger DTRs that it took a couple of months until I did not find the smallness of my 15-inch baby beast a little bit disturbing. I've gotten used to it and don't mind it so much now, but I still strongly prefer the bigger machines.

But, both of those examples in the quotes above would be very clumsy, if not ridiculous, to try to use sitting in my lap.

 

LOL, and for half a legitimate CPU... So, the 7820K BGA craptastic CPU has 45W TDP... what a stinking joke. You sure as hell won't win any races with that anemic piece of trash CPU. An ordinary 6700K with double the TDP stock would rip the Predator's head off and poop down its neck.

 

But I like the curved screen and the size of this monster smartphone. But the rest aka the internal is just garbage as you said. Remember... BGABook,TurdBook,JokeBook... A dear UGLY child is known by many names!!

 

Well technically, the Predator could just sit on the P870DM3 and win...

Seriously, I am not one to bash something for no reason. Why the heck did they not do a desktop CPU, and internal water cooling for that price and size? Also the screen resolution is lackluster, especially for 1080 sli. They completely screwed themselves out of the competition. I'm sure a few will buy it but it will not be a money maker for them, I would bet on that.

 

this is one of those machine i would get 7-8 yrs down the road, for collection... rather i have no choice but to wait to get it for collection.

agree with you there, if it had good internal hardware. this type of machine surely appeals to enthusiasts i love the bigger machine just like @Mr. Fox . 21x design is pretty awesome, with that price though it wouldnt hurt for them to go MXM and socket 6-8 core cpu, it barely changes the production cost. had they done that i just might bite the bullet and get one for 9k, its a real shame indeed.

 

about time something like this came out

http://www.pcmag.com/news/350826/razers-project-valerie-laptop-includes-3-4k-displays

or we can simply just go slidenjoy instead and dont have to put up with solder bga garbage.

 

From the article above...

"Powering what is effectively 12K (11,520-by-2160) of screen requires some serious performance, so Razer opted to use the new Razer Blade Pro$3,699.99 at Amazon laptop components. That means an Intel Core i7-6700 quad-core processor"

What a JOKE!!

 

Sitting with my P650RS-G in my lap, I have to admit I also find it hard to be excited by the lunch box form factor. A laptop I can slip and and out of a knapsack is really hard to replace.

Still, a lunchbox with a detachable keyboard/screen combo (like a laptop with no innards and a cable) might work. Kind of like the astronauts with those tethered suite cases they used for breathing.

But I am mainly intrigued by the possibility of an open solution as a way to push back against all the nonsense. Something with desktop components (mobo/cpu/gpu) that would be acceptable in terms of cost, form factor and performance. This would be an amazing thing, but so far the closest thing I have found to an open solution is a "luggable lunchbox" which is quite different than a laptop. And yes they are quite clunky, clumsy, heavy and ugly. To be fair, I just wanted a proof of concept.

As I see it, the problem is that the laptop form factor is very demanding and the dream I describe may require too many compromises to be a reality.

So maybe we are left hoping that Clevo and occasionally others like MSI will produce higher performance laptops with few compromises on into the future.

As one last ditch effort, not all hope is lost, you could still prop one of these ugly beasts in your lap (this is actually a very wimpy laptop, but does use a mini-itx board inside):

 

Oh dear me. Another Razor product that can talk the talk but can't walk the walk.
12k gaming on a 1080 that's gimped to 1070 speeds. I'm going to give their customer base the benefit or doubt and pray no one is stupid enough to get it for gaming.

 

Wow, this really does seem desperate ... "quick, slap more monitors on there! Make it look coool! We gotta sell this thing!!!"

 

Honestly, built-in multi-head is a really nice thing to have, if not for gaming, for productivity and general computing, so I'll have to give Razer points for at least trying something reasonably interesting and fresh.

 

I can guarantee you 100% that someone will buy something like this ↑↑↑. Just look at all the junk people buy today. In every forum all over the web You will find similar filth One, two or 3 sceens doesn't matter. The same ****y inside all the Jokebook's!!

 

if its 6700 then we can upgrade that to 6700k right? but looking at it its so thing no doubt everything is soldered. unless you meant 6700HQ LOL

 

fear not LGA boys, whenever this come out. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/slidenjoy/slidenjoy-double-or-triple-your-screens

its nice to have everything in one you dont have to carry another display piece but w/e works.

 

Sorry Oh'well, one more time...

"Powering what is effectively 12K (11,520-by-2160) of screen requires some serious performance, so Razer opted to use the new Razer Blade Pro$3,699.99 at Amazon laptop components. That means an Intel Core i7-6700 quad-core processor "

http://www.pcmag.com/news/350826/razers-project-valerie-laptop-includes-3-4k-displays



I don't think you can fit proper hardware in this Junkmachine!! Intended more for soldered trash!!

 

its actually 6700hq i think, whoever wrote that article is wrong, no way razor would use a desktop cpu. this laptop another added to collection, 8 yrs down the road.

 

Correct. Razer is actually a JOKEBOOK in Apple Book disguise, intended for Windows. THUS everything is BGA as expected

 

Wow, I guess making cool looking bogus hardware never gets old.

I think @ole!!! has a better triple monitor setup in mind - but I guess it doesn't look quite as sleek:

 

Actually the above machine looks more useful , since it's PGA and dust resistent. This is what I call mobile workstation.

 

thats cause it doesnt have a battery and no backlit keyboard lol. also heatsink that can fit into this is quite small..

 

Yes, it has a lot of great things going for it. You can put very powerful desktop components in there. I think @ole!!! intends on three high end graphics cards. It is a cool solution if you want a portable powerhouse.

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Are you saying you can't put a big heatink in that ginormous box? =O

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I really like these comments from @D2 Ultima

This goes a bit deeper into the issues laptops face beyond BGA vs socketed:

 

The P870DM3 sounds like a sweet machine. Having 2 1080s SLI in a laptop is amazing. I'm not sure I'm ready to travel with such a beast but I will think about it next time around. I'm already traveling with a bigger system than I intended without any trouble.

I am convinced that the there is currently no DIY solution that replaces a laptop, though a small briefcase sized box with a folding keyboard/display tethered on would be pretty close.

But clearly designing good high performance laptops is a demanding task and only a few manufacturers seem to be able to pull it off like Clevo and MSI (with the 16L13).

BTW, do you need two power bricks with the P870DM3? I thought I read that one is available now that is big enough.

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1080 SLI = 2x 330W or single 780w brick. How would a wimpy 330W managed to supply enough power to 2x +190w graphics?

Spoiler: The new 780W Laptop Power Adapter

 

Acer and 10K for a laptop do.not ring a bell.. 1k for that laptop does lol..

Not done too much BGA bashing recently but Acer are nuts if they think that POS is worth 10k..

As for Razer, good ideas but cripped by crap engineering... Also what's up with the 12k res nonsense lol with a 6700HQ? How is anything working? Forget gaming, surprised if it runs Minesweeper lol

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Razer gaming machine for doing excel spread sheets

 

Don't forget the big curved screen. Can do the BIG difference

 

As long as you don't use SLI you can even play games on the DM3 with only a single 330w brick. My max usage on one card appears to be below 300w.

I would prefer to just carry the 2nd brick but I could see some folks may want to game/work off one when away and then have full power back when they get home. It is a nice option to have at least, for example if a brick failed you could get by on one for a while until you could get a replacement sent/bought.