Clevo + Coffee Lake: Status?

agreed x2, it'll work nicely if getting a new computer in 2H2018 if not we get wallet destroyed. this not only applies to ram, flash SSD too.

prob 10nm or 10nm+ with 8 core. imagine 10nm or 10nm+ will possibly run cooler. only reason people are saying intel is power hungry right now is because at the ridiculous high clock. chips from few yrs ago dont clock that high, if they do, they'll have a higher power usage than KBL right now.

as for clevo 870 series, per eurocom they will use the exact same chassis for CFL 6c and the upcoming icelake 10nm+ 8 cores.

 

if they put out a 1700x I could overclock to 3.9 or 4 ghz. Id buy that over the intel system. I run a 1700 oced the 3.9 in my desktop and its super cool and I can game and render like never before. (I know intel can pull some better frame times(10 or more percent ) but everything gets well over 100fps on my 144hz monitor so its fine. It absolutely crushes in After effects which is what I live in for work.

Id rather buy a clevo or similar laptop with a ryzen in it. Best desktop cpu I have owned in years.

 

look at dis, https://www.anandtech.com/show/11722/intel-reveals-ice-lake-core-architecture-10nm-plus
icelake 2018 10nm+ and tigerlake 10nm++ in 2019.



10nm+ is under 14nm++ so we'll probably expect a 8c cpu running at around 4.6-4.7ghz at a decent temp assuming intel wont give us another 14nm++ CFL 8 core refresh...

but when it hits 10nm++ we can expect another decent jump, 8 cores at 5ghz in a laptop seems much more possible.

 

So instead of waiting for icelake it might be best to wait for tigerlake and upgrade now? hmmmm

 

wait so it will be icelake, icelake +, then tigerlake??? Im lost.

 

We really don't know, but it's assumed z370 will be the real Coffee Lake microarchitecture which was also supposed to 14nm, not 10nm, that's Cannon Lake / Ice Lake.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_Lake#Kaby_Lake_Refresh_vs._Coffee_Lake

" Kaby Lake Refresh vs. Coffee Lake[edit]
Main article: Kaby Lake § List of Kaby Lake R processors
On August 8, 2017, Intel announced that new 8th generation of processors would be revealed the following August 21. [9] As Intel's previous changes in product generations coincided with new microarchitectures, it was unclear [10] but generally expected that the 8th Core generation products would be based on the new Coffee Lake microarchitecture. [11] However, when it was officially announced on August 21, 2017, Intel stated that the 8th generation would be based on multiple microarchitectures, including Kaby Lake R, Coffee Lake, and Cannonlake. [12]"

So the 8c/16t could be Cannon Lake or Ice Lake, or it might be a 14nm Coffee Lake #2...

 

10nm, 10nm+ and 10nm++
right now 10nm is CNL, 14nm++ is CFL, 10nm+ is icelake and 10nm++ is tigerlake.

as for wait or not, if (BIG IF) intel doesnt change their current plan along with their leaked slides, then yes we'll get 10nm+ 8 cores icelake around 2H2018 (possibly end of 2018). but like @hmscott said its too far out and with current pressure from AMD things much change again, or intel might wanna delay and milk more, originally CNL 10nm suppose to be out in 2015.. now its 1H2018, basically a 2.5+ yrs delay...

had AMD not come out with ryzen, CFL 6 cores wont be out until Q1 2018, and we'll get milked on 6 cores for another 10 yrs.

 

Isn't z390 part of the Coffee Lake release?, and isn't 8c/16t the reason for z390?, so that would mean it's also Coffee Lake, which would still be 14nm.

Thats the confusing part, does z390 Coffee Lake 14nm turn into Cannon Lake 10nm, or does Coffee Lake #2 use the 10nm process instead of 14nm?

 

all we got confirmation was 8c on z390 doesnt say its CFL or icelake though. CFL doesnt turn into CNL. CNL is for mobile only though. desktop dont get first batch of 10nm, only 10nm+

 

z390 is desktop only too right? Like I said, we really don't know anything for sure, and it will be a year before this comes to be, so a lot can change along the way.

Maybe Intel will accelerate 8c/16t and/or 10nm when AMD releases 7nm and Ryzen II / ThreadRipper II / Epyc II

 

When there is actually infrastructure in place to support it, then they can consider it.

 

You mentioned this before, assistance from AMD for building Ryzen based laptops, right?

That makes no sense.

The Ryzen CPU's are desktop CPU's and there are already a number of companies with AMD AM4 desktop motherboards.

Asus used that AMD desktop CPU information to build an AMD desktop CPU laptop. That information is available now to Clevo, there is nothing to wait for.

Clevo builds desktop CPU laptops with Intel CPU's, using desktop build information, so there is nothing missing that Clevo needs to build desktop CPU laptops with AMD CPU's.

When AMD releases their laptop APU's those won't be the high power desktop CPU's that we want, so there is no need to wait for AMD APU laptop information.

 

That information is available to Asus (a close AMD partner already developing their desktop platform) yes but I'm not sure how that helps Clevo.

If you think Asus are just sharing their design then lol no.

 

I’m quite sure Asus has plenty of resources who can help with the design in their desktop MB division.

 

hey guys for my work. I likely wont ever need a 2nd gpu. (after effects, entirely cpu bound) So I am leaning towards a p775 undervolted, delidded and oced to 4.7. with a 1070 or 1080 (probably 1070 then a VOLTA mxm gpu when they are available) With the delid, undervolt, and minimal oc and no oc on the gpu I should be okay temp was in the 775 right?

@Donald@HIDevolution @Phoenix I know you Donald reced the p870 but it seems quite a bit bigger and sli just isn't useful and the gaming I do is in games that dont scale in sli.

 

oh and since these are mxm I assume volta mxm gpus will be supported with a new set of paste obviously?

 

Temps with the EVOC High Performance Systems P775TM will be fine.

You can never be sure that you can upgrade to a CPU or GPU that does not yet exist. It has to be able to be tested before we could ever make such a guarantee. However the best information we have now says you may well be able to upgrade to Volta.

 

thanks! I was considering a 1060 until volta came out but I might opt for a 1070 now.

 

I think the nVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 will serve you well for several years.

 

Its in my desktop build and I agree its been fantastic.

 

It's worth the investment now, you might find that you can skip a generation after even.

 

I think it just might be able to skip a gen. I really hope nvidia keeps mxm compatibility with these going forward though.

 

Plan for the worst, hope for the best

 

Personally when it comes to video cards I enjoy having the new shiny toy. If the format is upgradeable I’ll be letting my 1080mxm go for a good price and having my friend @Donald@HIDevolution help me out with an upgrade path to the 2080 or 1180 whatever it will be (if possible).

 

I just wish I had temp info before I bought it but donald promised refunds if temps make me weary. At this point im pretty stuck on the 775 but I wish I knew the temp diff on the 1070 vs the 1080 and if volta would fit (I know we don't know but it is likely)

 

Exactly, and Clevo has desktop motherboard expertise in house already, fitting them into laptops. Asus doesn't need to help Clevo, Clevo can help Clevo. There's no reason for delay.

 

Expertise about Intel MB, oh’yeah. But Asus has probably more expertise than Clevo in the whole (desktop MB)

 

That's true, Asus has already built AMD MB / Video card, and so was already working with AMD.

But, AMD is likely eager to work with anyone on new markets for their Ryzen / Vega / Polaris products, so I think if Clevo took the AMD desktop builder info already available, they would be able to build a Ryzen based laptop like the P870, and maybe even a 15.6" model using lower TDP Ryzen.

I just don't want to give Clevo an excuse to not even try, I'd rather give options for success

 

It is still that Intel has a stronger brand name out there. I'm sure Clevo has market surveys that show what their customers want / want. Same also that they follow what others offer out there. It may be that Intel also gives Clevo better conditions. Who knows... They wouldn’ choose hardware partners that gives the lowest earnings.

And AMD and Nvidia have not been the best combination(both for laptops and desktop).

Amd has no good graphics options for laptops today (I’m sure you know this). Asus paired Ryzen with Amd graphics in their notebook model as you know. A terrible choice if you wanna offering high performance. Maybe a reason Asus made this choice?

It’s many reasons why Clevo choosing as they do. Probably more than we know.

 

SL eta oct 20th will have binned chips.

time to grab the highest binned one, if possible.

 

Personally when it comes to video cards I enjoy having the new shiny toy. If the format is upgradeable I’ll be letting my 1080mxm go for a good price and having my friend @Donald@HIDevolution help me out with an upgrade path to the 2080

 

Of course Intel *has* had the mind share, but now AMD Ryzen / ThreadRipper / Epyc has taken over for many, and they are all eager to get a laptop with 8 cores / 6 cores for good prices.

Now is the time for Clevo and other brands to pounce on this, which is why Asus did it, others need to do it too so there is a variety of brands with full Ryzen 7 / 5 CPU's to choose from, making a market of it to support creating mind share.

Intel isn't going to deliver 6 core soon enough in enough quantity for desktops or laptops, now is the time to capitalize on that gap with Ryzen systems.

Now, sooner, not later

 

AMD's mobile push has been kind of sad. I understand we are talking desktop ryzens here but it just seems they are so behind the time intel usually has a laptop chip out. Ryzen came out in march. Only one laptop with anything ryzen exists. So odd.

 

Yees to socket processors in laptops What with INTEL/AMD COMBO? From both worlds Will Intel prioritize graphics insted of pure process performance for 8th Generation High end Mobility Processors? We need all socket processors in laptops...Both from AMD and INTEL. Let the BGA Junk be in the thin and flimsy

 

What are you talking about?

Desktop Ryzen is like Desktop Intel, and how many vendors make Desktop Intel Laptops?

Clevo needs to step up and make Ryzen Desktop CPU laptops, they are about the only hope.

Asus pulled that one out of the hat, it's their first desktop CPU laptop, right? MSI has the 16L13, so MSI should build a Ryzen Desktop CPU laptop too!

Intel 8700K is nowhere to be seen after it's paper launch and laptop versions aren't due to be out until 1H18, which is 6 months away.

AMD is supposed to release the laptop AMD APU's before xmas, hopefully soon enough to be *bought for xmas*.

It's always a waiting game.

 

Clevo have to spend the money on development.

Their profit was tiny last FY.

From a bean counter at HQ perspective: expending R&D on desktop Zen, to make what will basically be a competitor to Clevo's own existing products, would be crazy

 

nothing wrong with waiting. i'd be kicking myself if i had bought 4 SSDs in raid 0 at 30GB each back when intel released its first gen consumer SSD that cost over total of several thousand dollars. tech improves fast.

theres always new thing next gen but important thing is, it comes down to the difference between each gen, is it worth the wait type of question, and of course what people need/wanted.

CPU/storage perspective. storage benefited from NVMe PCIE SSDs but limited by chipset DMI 2.0, which two gens of haswell and broadwell stucked with DMI 2.0 & no raid support etc. only until skylake comes with it all. then going from 8 cores CPU to just 4 cores kinda going backwards, and as expected KBL didn't change much at all vs SKL.

finally CFL 6 cores, better IPC than ivyB, much higher binned CPU, higher frequency, DMI 3.0, PCIE SSDs, all SATA 6gbps, USB 3.1, finally seems worth it. until news kicked in we might be getting 14nm++ or 10nm+ 8 cores mainstream next year. definitely worth the wait, benefits include lower ram/SSD pricing, 2 more cores at lower temp, possibly higher IPC, new gen GPU thats not already 2 yrs old etc.

people that says "you'll always be waiting" probably dont really care much about details as long as they have latest/greatest.

 

No point in uprade to Coffee if you already have a working machine. Volta have to be in the package!! Maybe we will see 8 core when Volta come.

 

though i dont mind much about graphical performance, i'd still love to have a new GPU than old one. 980m or even 780m for that matter already so powerful can do most things, im using 900p and 60hz, theres like no need for anything new on GPU side lol.

but it will be nice to have say, 2070 or 2080 replace the GPU in p570wm.

 

Exactly, the only CPU upgrade that would get me motivated to get the same GPU in a new laptop with a new CPU would be an 8c/16t Ryzen, the 6c/12t Intel / AMD isn't enough of a boost.

We need a full RX 64 + Ryzen 7 laptop, or *shudder* a full 1080 + Ryzen 7 laptop, maybe one of them new 1080ti reduced TDP for laptop jobbers would really top it off

 

R1700 + 1080 aint good enough. See Asus... 1410cb and low boost clocks. A bad combo. Forget [email protected]/4.1GHz. Ain't happen in laptops now.

 

It's not a *bad* combo, it's a less expensive combo, you can't compare a sub $2000 laptop against an almost $4000 laptop and toss out the 1/2 price one for being a little slower in CPU

The 1700/1700x in a laptop against the other BGA CPU's will wipe them out. Driving a 1080 or 1070 in a laptop it will do as well or better against the BGA CPU's. In their price range, it will clean up.

You have this mentality that completely ignores 99% of the world's performance and only focuses on the 1%, that's silly for most people and they could care less.

A 1700/1700x with a 1070/1080 would be a great price performance 8c/16t laptop for most people.

Maybe not for you or the .01% trying to get on the record books, but that's irrelevant compared to everyone else looking for a good performing low priced laptop.

 

i want intel 8 cores in laptop and i want it at 10nm+ next yr, at 4.9-5ghz. wishful thinking, theres 2/3 in what i wished for will go wrong but thats okay, ive already waited since ivyB time thats 4-5+ years.

my cpu performance still beats majority of laptop owners, same with ram performance due to quad channel but thats about it. in storage/GPU i lose out.

 

I'm sure we wouldn't see cheaper laptops if they come with Ryzen and 1070/1080. It's a utopia. The Greede is all too strong. And None of us know the deal OEM*s can have with AMD vs. Intel.

 

Nah, the savings are there to be had, they need to position the AMD Ryzen laptops as the price performance leader, and not gouge.

That's why the Ryzen + RX 580 is a good model for price point and performance.

60hz/fps is easily met with G-sync on and that's all that matters to most.

Adding the 1070 / 1080 and 120hz / FPS will bring up the price, but not as high as the DTR notebooks, and those are the only ones with DT CPU's to compete.

 

Just trying on an entirely new platform is very expensive.

 

its rather weird, intel/nvidia somehow have power over these OEM (probably with massive rebate) for them to go full BGA, however majority of them still design different laptop (chassis / heatsink/ mobo etc) every year. brand new design cost so much more they should follow more like clevo / msi to reduce cost.

as long as they dont allow selling parts in public/consumers they wont have to worry about people not buying their new laptop. makes you wonder why most dont do that.

 

They are not new platforms, intel only make BGA chips and the reason mxm was made was so that models could ship with the same motherboard but different chips.

Nvidia have made the 1060/1070/1080 pin compatible meaning a single motherboard can be used to house many different options.

 

at 12:35 shows not all reviewers know the details of mobo and their features, some may know and not bother with it or just dont care too. @Danishblunt this is a good example of reviewer is not always right LOL