Clevo Co. Market NEWS and Performance discussions

p950 is a competitor for msi gs63vr but clevo needs a lightweigt (1.8kg/2kg) 14"/15" laptop with a very high battery life 8/9 hours and a very good fhd/4k (not pentile) display imo


competitors go in that direction
-dell xps 9560 9/10 hours
-gigabyte aero14 8/9 hours
-gigabyte aero 15 7/8 hours
-razer blade 8/9 hours
-asus ux550vd/ux550ve? ???

 

I would not use the Asus structure of models as a paragon lol.

 

i know that clevo (326000 in 1Q2017) is smaller than asustek (4 millions in 1Q2017) or compal (3 million in 1Q2017)


do you prefer lenovo?
lenovo yoga 720 13
lenovo ideapad 710s 13
lenovo yoga 910 13.9
lenovo thinkpad carbon x1
lenovo miix 700

or dell?

xps 9360
xps 9365
latitude 5280
latitude 5289

 

Or as a smaller entity you focus on hitting the markets you know well with a smaller number of focused products

 

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20170518PB202.html

Clevo sees earnings drop nearly 50% on year in 1Q17
Steve Shen, DIGITIMES, Taipei [Thursday 18 May 2017]
Notebook vendor and IT mall operator Clevo saw its net profits decrease 46.15% on year to NT$37.55 million (US$1.247 million) in the first quarter of 2017. EPS for the first quarter reached only N$0.06.

A loss of NT$360 million incurred from foreign exchange transactions eroded the company's profits in the first quarter, the company explained.

The company expects shipments of its notebook products to gain momentum in the second half of 2017 as it has begun shipping its new ultra-thin notebooks to the US and Europe, while planning to unveil a new multimedia professional notebook at the upcoming Computex Taipei 2017.

The company posted revenues of NT$1.309 billion for April, down 8.04% on year. Year-to-date revenues totaled NT$6.148 billion, down 0.69% on year.

The company's stock price edged down NT$0.10 to finish at NT$27.10 on the Taiwan Stock Exchange (TSE) during the May 18 session.

 

www.4-traders.com
CLEVO COMPANY (2362)
Financials:
Company Information:
Calendar:

 

Aren't we getting a little bit obsessed by Clevo's financial position?!!!!!??!??! I mean, guess there's nothing wrong with discussing the financials as they are a publically trading company, but the digitimes reports and headlines don't always give an accurate representation of what Clevo has actually said - it's more their own conclusions.

 

There is only a single thing I would strongly advise the new Clevo CEO to consider:

"Innovate, don't imitate"!

If they try too hard to compete with the slim and mediocre systems the market is currently being flooded with by the 'big players', they may not come out on top.
There is only so much money in the mid-end gaming Notebook market, but there is a huge and unused potential in the pro and prosumer market, where a lot of money is ready to be spent in the portable workstation sector.
And if that means bigger and better systems for the smaller high-end portable gaming/benching community, then that's a win/win for everyone!

 

We follow because we care, and some of us even can support and insight Clevo's management.

 

[UP]
Company Overview of Clevo Co. - Bloomberg

Clevo Co - FT.com Markets Data > see what's happening in September

Clevo Co (2362.TW) - Reuters

 

spot on! even if i dont fully use it, i'd still love to own those ultra high end type mobile workstation.

 

I think they should a double focus:
- mainstream ,where they follow the big players
- Clevo specific , where to focus on professionals and enthusiasts like they did for so many years

and they should have two ranges or series of laptops focused on these. Say you could have the N and P series for mainstream and a W series with sockatable CPUs . I strongly believe that a portfolio of products should be focused on certain market segments and be really well done to build reputation, rather than try to do a catch all.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/2362:TT

 

https://markets.ft.com/data/equities/tearsheet/summary?s=2362:TAI

 

Lets be perfecly honest here.

If Clevo would just finetune their stuff and stop just cramming random high end hardware into their cases they would be so much more popular. Their main issues are thermals, terrible driver support, crappy fan profiles, utter crap sound drivers etc.

Clevos approach is much like Gigabyte, only that clevo at least has the decency to actually put in some huge fans and try to somewhat salvage what mess they are doing. I'll soon have a thread about my P375SM-A which is a magnificent system (once u fix the tons, and tons and tons of issues) and point out the very common flaws almost every clevo system has.

This is why MSI is the absolute most popular brand, they actually think before they build something, they finetune their systems and make sure that they are great. I simply cannot ever justify paying ~5k USD for a system that I need to finetune myself. It's just stupid.

 

Many of us are saying the same, all fine tuning now are done by the resellers (not all of them), @Prema and professional Modders, like @Mr. Fox and our respected Engineers, they are doing very good job to fix many issues related to the power, cooling and heat, and we can survive using Clevo's until now only because of their valuable efforts.

 

This is still a massive problem considerng the crappy sound drivers, and the cooling needs way more modding than desirable. The actual fit itself is mostly so bad on so many models suffer from massive heat problems. Compare those wonky heatsink fits to some of the tight excellent fits from the MSI GT series and it makes people really depressed about how much money they spend for an incomplete system.

If i was an everyday normal user, I'd be killing my clevo with high temps. It's a joke.

 

I have a permanent damage in 2 of my fingers coz of the lapping process

 

My friends with all my respect to all your contributions, please...please Ladies and Gentlemen, this thread just for "Clevo Co. Market NEWS and Performance discussions", and there are many other threads dedicated to the war between BGA and LGA, Clevo and MSI, Asus, Acer,..etc. So please I'm asking all my friends to keep it focused on that, I like to see posts about all Clevo's NEWS, new models, future inventions from different form factors or market stock and selling performance,....etc, can we do that? you are free for sure to post whatever you wants, but really I want to achieve my goals creating this thread for and wish you can help me to do that, especially from our respected resellers which I expect that they knows a lot information that they can share it with us about this regards.

 

Maybe you are right about that.
Me and other iconic members are agree with you in some points, but if you go to the beginning of this thread you will know what I'm talking about, what is the advantage to have this fight in all threads. BTW: it's a good and positive fight from my opinion, hope that maybe someone somewhere will listen to our discussion and try to improve both sides. Let's try not to target killing each others, let's make it a clean and academic fight, like creating an evaluation criteria and comparison sheets, and let the numbers and return of investment talk, we need to know how to live with each others rather than killing each others .
I saw a lot of efforts, posts with a lot of time from many members discussing about this subjects.
But what about if I'm an outsider and come to NBR to find a guide?
I will not find a place where I can find guidance and advice is available as a guide to purchase or model usability, and shows clearly the return on investment, the expected benefits of all models, and the shortcomings that must be taken into consideration. Isn't this the fundamental objective of this forum?
In my opinion, we must think about others before thinking about ourselves, taking into consideration the new users of these technologies and trying to guide them to what is best for them. I do not think this approach leads to this, but will lead to more complexities and dispersion.
Anyway I can't fix this international war alone, it seems it's already very deep inside most of us, and each party has his own reasons to keep the fight always glowing .
I have no idea if my message is clear, but I hope that.

 

This is Clevo's main claim to fame, and in the superior iteration of it sold under the EVOC brand. Nobody makes a notebook that can touch this. Build quality, cooling and performance are outstanding. Also, featuring @Prema BIOS. People that are most critical of it have never owned/used one. They are making assumptions.

 

Start behaving! stop the LGA/BGA argument, this is not the thread. We are not handing out any reprimands yet!

 

Thank you, really appreciate.

 

This is really a great laptop, it's the greatest and most powerful laptop Clevo ever made up to now "I think", but what do you think is still missing and should be included, or what issues still remained and it should be fixed?

 

The 4th fan. The fan header is already assembled on the MB.

 

Indeed. The P870DM-G and P870DM3 were the best high performance notebooks I have ever owned. Nothing else in a notebook can touch their performance. Fit, finish and build quality are also excellent.

I would like it if they hired @Prema and had him do all of the firmware development for all Clevo notebooks so they would all deliver peak performance and robust configuration options.

It would be great if they focused on consistent heat sink fit and went overkill on the cooling. I would be perfectly fine with the P870 being thicker and heavier if it meant twice as many heat pipes and radiators with at least 50% more surface area.

That said, I believe the P870 is the closest thing to perfection that exists in high performance notebooks. It's not that it's even close to achieving perfection as much as everything else (all brands) is so far off from perfection that it's truly disgusting.

A couple of "like to have" improvements would be a keyboard that uses most of the width of the palm rest, individually addressable key lighting and the ability to control the LED functionality basics (color/on/off) in the BIOS without having to install or use Windows software. I would NOT want them to use chiclet keyboards. I do not like chiclet keyboards.

I would like them to pick a hardware design standard with a single form factor and stick with it so that parts swapping could be easier among models in the same product family over the course of many years.

 

Yes it will be a great option to have the 4th fan, like the legendary P570, it will enhance the cooling for sure.

Agree with you Sir, even me and many will be just fine with thicker/heavier powerful laptop with good cooling rather than thin laptop with low power and cooling capabilities.

And I'm keep asking Clevo to hire Prema for a long time, this is the logic, and I don't know how they are thinking?!

But as we are talking about hardware, we have to care about the software/drivers side as well, we need our respected resellers to communicate with the manufacturer to fix this side of problems as well, and not taking all responsibilities on their shoulders to fix all SW/HW issues on behalf of Clevo.

My friend you are knowledgeable and you have a valid points, even I bought your Clevo DM3 last year , it was a great beast. No one will ban you, we are not in "Battlefield 1"

 

• CCC and any Clevo related software
  
• PWM controlled fans with curves than can be adjusted from OS level

 

Anyone read this before:
Clevo Co.,
Ethical Corporate Management Best Practice Principles

 

Sometimes things operate within a certain envelope because that's the way that a company wants them to operate - rather than it not being possible. No offence to Prema of course, but the issue is not that the knowledge or skill gap needs to be filled.

 

So, they want them to throttle and run like a piece of trash? They know exactly what they are doing to screw things up and want their stuff to be screwed up? Interesting concept. I wonder if they are truly oblivious to the fact that without @Prema firmware mods to fix their abortions they would lose a significant amount in sales because there is a segment of their customer base with zero tolerance for notebooks that malfunction and have configuration restrictions due to cancer firmware. Offering nice hardware specs with the gonads surgically removed is pretty stupid. For those with higher standards, it's going to be all or nothing. Those that are incapable or unwilling to produce acceptable products are destined to become an unacceptable brand. If that's what they really want, they will be in good company and in lock step with 100% of the rest of the industry since their competitors are all incompetent losers that only build unacceptable trash. I think that might be appropriately labeled a "death wish" LOL. Driving the nails into your own coffin... hara kiri.

 

Actually we need or the whole DTR industry needs more than one Prema, and I advise Prema to copy himself and he should give his knowledge to some students and teach them well, or creating Prema University like the Mr. Fox University or something similar, from my little opinion this is a matter of life or death. I know this is strong Business opportunity for him, but believe me the one sharing his knowledge always wins more than what he expect.

I think there are some secrets around the DTR industry, some limitations, some technological politics and it's not a complete freewell or not fully independente industry.

 

Well, clevo just lacks only 4 things of being a perfect Desktop-in-a-laptop brand.
1. Rgb, i mean cmon, thats a sick ass lga laptop! IT DESERVES RGB!!
2. A better keyboard(i dont require a mech KB, no one does. But the KB they're using now, really makes me hate it. My hands are kinda muscle-ly and the keys are so small and really have to push all the way down to get feel of pressing).
3. An 18.4in beast. I mean, lets face it, each company has its 18.4+ in beast, why not clevo? I would love to see it with 4-6 fan VC cooling system!

And the most important.
4. An egpu dedicated port.(not that crappy TB3 enclosures, but something like AW amplifiers).


If clevo attains all these, i dont know but the future of companies like asus , AW,aorus etc is in jeopardy!

 

Nice suggestions, Clevo was providing 18.4" laptops in the past the "Clevo's 18.4-inch M98xNU gaming laptop"


Prostar/Clevo P180HM 18.4" FHD Gaming Laptop Video Review (Comparable to Sager NP8180)

 

I wish they go back to their previous design and re -apply it to to the upcoming models


With aluminum chassis, better fan control in percentage, individual heatsink for gpu's in sli, support for AMD hardware, up-to titan level gpu.

 

Well, um, just wanted to say, even if @Prema decided not to make bios mods anymore, welp, still, i would buy clevo since RELATIVELY, their firmwares are less cancerous then others (including msi, just think how much @Falkentyne has struggled to get the NOS disabled, and still cant do it yet!).

I would surely agree that if they know someone like prema has talent, knowledge and willpower better then their whole team, why just not ask prema to join them? They'll together do WONDERS!

 

It's not a significant amount of sales.

 

I bought once a DM3 with XMG BIOS, it was unlocked, but not with all options and features like the Prema one, is XMG providing an unlocked BIOS for their laptops?

 

How can you be certain? I went with the mighty-mini instead of something like the P870TM due to some of these issues not being addressed by last Oct/Nov. I've also been telling others at work and in the industry to wait and see if these things are ever resolved.

How many potential buyers are out there like me?

 

We differ there. I would not own a Clevo if I had to run the stock firmware and no @Prema BIOS and EC mods. Performance is diminished and the default lighting scheme sucks with stock Clevo BIOS and EC.

 

What is not significant amount of sales. 1-3 or 5% ? I mean if it's 5% so is this on level with problematic RMA numbers (too much flaws). See... Razer

An all <each> company has its 18.4 ?

Edit. Some of the known company who push gaming laptops... Asus, Msi, Aorus (Gigabyte), Clevo, Razer, Hp, Evga, Lenovo, Aw, Acer etc. I can't see the numbers you talk about.

 

Hmm, well, just tell me sir,in a parallel universe where just let's say something like premamod dosent exist, and if you were to buy a laptop, and you were to select between current options, wouldn't you still be buying clevo,knowing bgacrapturds have allready diminished hardware ALONG WITH crappy bioses? Thing is, you dont have option! People dosent know that they're being cheated with these cancer firmware, they're happy with it! It was people like @Prema who decided to create an option! And people like you and hidevolution( @Ted@HIDevolution ) who considered him! Even if you go and ask clevo users, they dont know about prema mod! Most of them take it for granted. There are very few people who knows about prema compared to total clevo users. People like you, @Papusan , phoenix know bout it, but not everybody! Reason why still "Sager" is a bigger brand then "evoc" .(despite evoc being ultimate compared to sager, which i really hate).

 

Yes, msi has gt83 as ultimate, aorus has x9, acer has 21x, AW *had* AW18 and m18x, asus has gx800, razer dosent even have balls and guts so it is not even in competetion, hp and lenovo are, like started to put foot in gaming industries.

 

And who say Aorus X9 i'ts 18.4. Acer push out limited 21.0" version in 300 units. Asus Gx 800 is or was impossible to get. Only Msi is is normal easy to get hold of. Each company... Nope!! And you can't count with AW. Same as you can't count in older bigger Clevo 18.4" laptops.

 

Part of the problem is, a stock clevo throttles even more than a MSI throttlebook. The P870 TM is nowhere near as bad as the older DM series, thus it's "usable" stock, but the DM series would throttle like mad. Even the MSI Throttlebook, with its battery boost, would go farther (if you got a good sample BGA turd chip, which is about equal to the worst sample 7700K chips), provided you unlocked the Bios menus to take control of IA AC DC Loadline.

 

Knowing what I know now, better than fair chance I would skip the laptop thing if I could not have a Clevo monsterbook with @Prema firmware. Knowing what most people know, which is not very much, hell yeah. If I absolutely had to buy something crippled, then yes... rather have a crippled Clevo with a socketed CPU and GPU than a crippled and castrated something else with CPU and/or GPU soldered to the mobo. But, that does nothing to excuse the mess or diminish the magnitude of their sins and crimes against customers. At this time my advice (for myself and anyone that is in a position to do the same) is if you can't get a Clevo with @Prema firmware, just say no to notebooks. Spend the money on a desktop and use a really cheap (under $500) laptop for mobility. Maybe get one from a yard sale or Craigslist, use it until it dies, then toss it into a dumpster. At some point they all, not just Clevo, need to begin to reap a harvest from the lameness and mediocrity they have sown. Pain is a very useful tool in behavior modification. When things are right with the world, only the strong survive. The panty-waist circus in high performance and gaming wussbooks needs to stop.

 

You can in fact get hold on a cpu who run cool and with lower wattage (it's LGA) Aka replace what you already got (a bad or medium quality chips). You are screwed no matter with BGA. Clevo is the only option whatever you say.

 

You got what i wanted to say!!! CHEERS!!!!!

 

There are definitely potential buyers out there like you, but in particular those who work in industry or B2B customers do not look at things in the same way. Products are bought to serve a purpose, they need to be stable, be reliable and perform well, but they aren't pushed to the level that enthusiasts push them (in general). For example, the most popular laptop that we sell to VR customers in the industry are the P65* (XMG P507) with 1070 and P775 with 1070/1080. From direct feedback I can tell you that our P507 customers find this laptop performs much better and doesn't throttle to the extend that other "slim" performance laptops do that they have also used. It has a perfect combination of portability and performance, in the eyes of or customers anyway. In fact, the performance of the P507 is a key aspect for them compared to similar products on the market. This argument could be classed as mainly subjective, because each user (remember I'm only talking about industry customers and users) has a different usage case and differnt requirements - but it's also an objective argument based on fact and direct feedback.

I appreciate that I could be opening a can of worms with the above statement, but I ask that it's taken on face value - I wouldn't say these things unless they were grounded in direct experience and feedback - in the context of the discussion and reply to the specific question @jclausius asked.

I can't give an exact figure, but I am in somewhat of a priveledged position because of my experience of the industry and my position in that industry. You can do simle maths, based on the number of downloads from Prema vs the number of laptops that are sold globally every year - or you can look at the number of resellers who offer Prema BIOS, their approximate sales numbers (which btw I don't of course have any access to but have a good idea of the market share based on a number of publically available information and other factors) vs the ones who don't offer Prema. You can't say that every Prema download or sale from a Prema partner equalls a Clevo sale which wouldn't have happened if Prema didn't exist - so the more you look into the topic the more complex and less accurate it becomes. Do 5% of Clevo laptops in circulation which could have Prema firmware installed indeed have it installed - not even close. In my humble but educated opinion we're talking about fractions of a percent. With the greatest of respect (and I mean that, it's not just something to allow me to make a statement) this forum and the discussion on it, whilst valid and valued, which should be pushed in order to initiate change and improvement, do not reflect the vast bulk of the customer base.

We don't provide a completely unlocked BIOS, but in some models like the DM3 there are more options opened up that what one would consider a stock and completely closed BIOS. Some of these options are actually opened up by Clevo in stock BIOS, some are special adjustments or unlocked options. There's a completely separate discussion I could have regarding why the direct Clevo customers have less flexibility to offer third party modified/hacked firmware - it's been discussed at length multiple times in the past so I won't get into it now! Prema knows us and we know him, but there's a limit to how much we can work on together and this would be the same for any ODM, it's in no way limited to Clevo.

 

Jesus guys, be nice to XMG. He's one of us!