Clevo P150 and P170 cooling systems neglected by Clevo! (solutions here)

If you are aware that there's very little airflow from the hole on top of the vram.

 

Hackness, my point is that this should be completely unnecessary, if there is not enough of a cooling solution present, then we should be leaning on our resellers/sager to have this corrected, rather than wiring in two fans that move next to no air and put out 34 dB of noise for that teeny bit of airflow, in addition to the splitter and extra wiring you have to jam in there.

Also, how is this in any way going to affect GPU temps? This thread started about heatsink issues and has changed to full blown modding.

 

His heatsink has been modded and that type will dissipate some heat even before it's transfered to the heatpipe, as there's no airflow to take that dissipated heat away, that small fan will act as a pusher, you don't need to have that huge of an airflow there.

Also this is just a suggestion as he moved onto blower mod, and this is related to the "Cooling system" "solution" too.

 

Personally I find the extra fans a bit much, but if it works well I congratulate you!

Maverick, the dramatic fluctuation pressing on the heatsink clearly indicates that the metal tabs used to hold it on aren't strong enough. The screws are in as far as they can go, and those tabs are flexed by the weight of the pipes no matter if the laptop is upside down or not. The fact it even flexes proves it's not adequate, and the pipes are already adding leveraged unsupported pressure that is just as dangerous. When the laptop is moved around, the weight of those pipes is constantly flexing and vibrating on top of the gpu. That's plenty worse than a gentle finger or a washer put in correctly to reduce this constant instability of shifting weight on the GPU.

Plus, to test I very blatantly said gently. I barely had to touch the heatstink at all for instant -5c and i continued until the heat reduction stopped. The weight of just the screw driver itself was enough to reduce 2-3c for me, so I know the metal tabs aren't holding the weight stably enough and those blasted pipes are installed poorly with no weight support on one end. And redesign the terrible fan port on the plastic cover, lol.

Oh, and I'd absolutely love it if Clevo would take responsibility. I think hey should send a replacement heatsink with stronger metal tabs, or somehow get the weight of the pipes on the other end supported and aligned with the GPU fan channel.


I used the notebook upside down for ease of finding out whether or not the mounts were tight enough and to troubleshoot in real-time. I may have made a mistake in that the weight might shift to the other side when turned over so I will test this to see how the temps are affected right side up. I was up til 4AM and probably not of %100 clarity, so if I made a mistake I will own up to it and correct it today. Will update later or tomorrow morning depending on my schedule.

Thanks for your input!

 

I'm having fun with my cooling system. Always do. I love seeing the results of the changes I make.

Whine away, but I think the cooling system on Clevo are great. It's not Clevo's fault the 7970M runs hotter than expected.

 

yea i personally think its kind of fun being like "look what i did and shaved off 7C." each mod may only make a 1-2 degree difference, but added up its fairly substantial

 

Beefsticks, I must commend you for stepping up to my points and even the error. In fairness the TIM will solidify over time and act like an adhesive which should indirectly treat some of this flex. I agree the design isn't sufficient, but it has had few issues from what I'm aware of over the past 4 generations. I agree that fans are totally overkill.

What are you using as a TIM? Both my 8150 and my 9170 have an identical heat pipe setup, and really I haven't noticed any temp issues yet. I haven't had a chance to put my 7970 to the test yet due to some other issues, so I can't vouch 100% for the heat on that thing yet.

With the current design the brackets should act as a fulcrum causing the weight of the HS to actually aid the heatsink in adhering to the GPU.

Mort testing is appropriate I think, and solid presentation initially btw, considering it's 4AM conception .

 

And to make matters even worse in some cases: Some of you may have a bumper glued to the cover near the exhaust grill, as in this picture. Given that the radiators are not properly supported, evertime you open and close the cover, the radiator may rise from its seating position and then be pressed backed down by the bumper when the cover is replaced.

"Give me a place to stand on, and I will move the Earth." -- Archimedes on Levers

 

So unnecessary to cut it out with a screen like that. I don't think people get the 7970M has a very high tolerance, you don't need to have it run at 60C while gaming.

I agree, some of these mods are well beyond what I would do to the laptop. I consider these more mutilating the laptop than modding it.

 

That one was a bit much for me as well, in addition to voiding the warranty that just looks terrible. The 7970M may have heat issues, but this should be addressed at the card level.

Additionally, those are the intake ports for the fan, the exhaust is actually shot out the back, so really that's not accomplishing much as your are pulling cool air through those anyways. I would be highly surprised to see that mod make a meaningful difference in actual constriction.

 

IC Diamond. The temps are indeed fine pre-adjustment, (I'd use the word acceptable) but they are highly inefficient due to minor design/installation flaws that can be easily fixed (well, the fan port design isn't so minor... still cools off 14c when I take it off) I am getting a refund for the reseller I purchased the IC installation from. I believe they have not applied enough TIM. But, still, these tests do show some things aren't totally efficient.

I made the thread because these are such simple oversights adding up to a really big inefficiency of the cooling system, +15C-30C depending on how unlucky one is. 15-30C is a big difference to any electronic device. If the cooling system is capable of 75C instead of 95C with very minor and nearly costless adjustments, why neglect/ignore it? Thinking it through with efficiency in mind would have only cost Clevo the changing of an idea pre-production. Like Alienware, at least they saw these problems and added foam. Super cheap, but super effective. Clevo could do it too.

 

Disagree, the fan port is fine. No changes needed on that front. My temps with cover are fine, 62C with 85% GPU usage is more than fine. Only thing I'm not happy about is the amount of torque on the core of the GPU. The heatsink for vRam is working awesome. All the other changes are changes I make to every laptop, so I don't even care about those.

 

I have this long bumper/suport on cpu radiator,none on gpu radiator

 

In the picture of my previous post, I was pointing reader's attention toward the braided spacing bumper near the exhaust grill. This bumper is glued to the cover. I'm not sure everyone has it. If your radiator assembly is bent upward, and if you do have this bumper, it will press the radiator back down when you replace the back cover.

 

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I don't anywhere, its just a flat lid with no supports. This might be a manufacturing inconsistency (or maybe a smarter vendor added it in) so maybe this is a partial explanation of the heat lottery the 150/170 family is having. Could you post a pic for us?

62C @%85? Jealous. I run 86C @ %82. What is your temp with the cover off? -14C here with it off suggests it is not fine at all. I've had notebooks with angled ports that do not constrict air like this whatsoever and did a much better job.

Also I am definitely going to reapply some IC Diamond later. I'm fairly sure now my vendor did not apply nearly enough. That or way too much, so it might be a mess in there. We'll see when I get a tube of it in the mail

 

At work so can't look. May have to specify if it's on the 150 or the 170.

I just can't believe how some people are angry that a 15" notebook with the fastest and most powerful GPU ever made by AMD can run at around 65-70C while gaming. That's just ridiculous to me. That demonstrates to me how well cooling on this machine has been engineered.

 

70?
we talking about 90 here
I bought these radiators and will put on gpu cheatsink

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270962863161&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:MOTORS:3160

 

Why haven't you called your reseller yet? Something wrong with your machine.

 

62C @%85? That's even cooler than the GTX680Ms. Could you post a Furmark 10min screenshot running at 99% GPU usage?

 

they say its normal under heavy load

 

Kombuster, not Furmark as Furmark is not representative of gaming. I don't play Furmark, I play games. No doubt my temps will be higher with Furmark, but again, I don't care, I just monitor my temps when gaming and test with Kombuster. Kombuster has lots of depth of field, blur, tessellation, physx and plenty others that are actually relevant to gaming. You want to stare at fuzzy donought, have fun with that.

 

ok,U dont play furmark but can U run for us to compare?

 

Nope, already posted my temps from Kombuster. Both AMD and Nvidia have stated Furmark stresses GPU well beyond safe limits. Both companies discourage using Furmark. I bought my 7970M to play games and possibly applications, not to stare at fuzzy doughnut while it's destroying my GPU. I don't want to know, I make changes to my cooling for gaming and those are the conditions I test for.

 

Kombuster is better than Furmark for really overhauling the GPU for those wanting Furmark benches. Furmark for me does 86C while Kombustor does 94C. So for those asking for screenshots of Furkmark, just take the Kombustor screenshots.

And hulawafu, the point of these programs is to highlight the inefficiencies and capabilities of the system. All cooling is going to affect %100 of situations, not just gaming. You're making a distinction that doesn't exist. If a lid is causing a 14C increase in temps, I'd say that's a pretty inefficient design that could be remedied simply by thinking it out better pre-production. Your games would still run even cooler if the lid were designed better, since it already has the capability within itself to run much more efficiently. I run 80C on Kombustor unchoking the fan with the lid off and 94C with the lid on. Thats a big jump! Imagine what overclockers could get out of their machines if they got the efficiency up to what the system can actually provide and how much less battery would be required to cool the GPU. You'd have gains on multiple fronts.


Still 62C on kombustor is nuts low. Somethings wrong with mine still and I think I'll be reapplying TIM sometime.

 

OK I did the testing and I've come to what I think is a fairly accurate conclusion, but first I'll post temps:


I have removed my washer fix from the GPU heatsink for this entire test. All tests run with Kombustor GPU burn in DX11 @ 1080P:

10 Minutes upside down with cover on: 87C

13 minutes upside down, with no cover: 77C

15 minutes upside down, no cover, applied gentle pressure with a pencil eraser: 76C (Concluded explanation below to why mine no longer drops temp after pressure)

20 minutes right side up, lid open, with the cover back on, on a solid smooth surface: 90C

23 minutes right side up, lid open, cover off, and supported on sides so bottom is exposed to air: 78C

24 minutes right side up, lid open, cover off, supported on sides, pressure on GPU from underneath: -0C to -1C

30 minutes later: fan still whirring while I write this, even though GPU is idle. These damn fans.






Conclusion:

The main heat sink tabs are simply just not applying enough pressure for optimal thermal paste spreading and curing, and the pipe assembly leverage can amplify it. One can argue that not enough TIM is applied (which I think on mine there's not even if the pressure is correct) but that also means excess TIM must be used to close a gap that shouldn't be as large and unevenly pressured in the first place. Also, I believe this is true because of the multitude of others also reporting on lower temps while pressing on the GPU and having to bend the tabs to make optimal contact.


Although this specific test had very little difference with pressing on the GPU for me personally, due to the constant GPU burn ins and putting pressure on random points of the heatsink back and forth, I think however much IC Diamond my vendor installed is now to its maximum spreading potential and has cured. The total time I've been using my GPU also lines up with the amount of time IC Diamond is rated to be cured too. I also believe the IC Diamond has anchored the free weight of the pipe assembly to my GPU die as well since IC is known to be strong and thick once cured. Now the pipe weight isnt making more than 1C difference without washers.



So there are 4 options to go about this:

1: Glop in extra TIM (unneeded if the GPU pressure were enough from the main tabs) and give it extra time to cure. You will get consistent temps, but as most know, surplus TIM is almost never optimal.

2: Get enough pressure on the tabs to allow for optimal spreading of the TIM, so it can cure optimally as well. This has been showing relevant temperature drops for many people trying it. An official solution from Clevo would be nice. Maybe, they could have vendors handle the fix with washers that are just right for the ring tabs like I did. It would be much more economic for vendors to only need to throw in 4 tiny washers rather than come up with a new heatsink that has stronger tabs.

3: Get a support in the right spot with the heat fins. Although, this can misalign the already out of line air gaps between the fan and fins more.

4: Not care and just use the damn thing!

 

Now we're talking. I have a hard time believing the weight of the HSF is contributing to this issue, but I think your on to something with the strength of the brackets. At those temperatures, I'd honestly be hitting your reseller up for a solution. I've never expereinced temps like that myself, though I have to wait for my 7970 for testing

 

After 9 or 10 emails back and forth explaining the heat problems, the guy at Malibal is going to refund me $35 for the IC Diamond application. They have been very willing and open to work with me, so I must recommend them with very high regards. They are willing to try and communicate clearly down to the last annoying email you send them. Now, don't anyone get this confused with feeling entitled for freebies. Make sure you really have a problem with IC Diamond that they applied and don't be a jerk. These guys are honest and deserve honesty in return too.

So, I will be doing my own application of the IC when I get my own tube for a fraction of that $35 and let you know how it goes. Really not looking forward to removing recently cured IC, but it'll be worth it. Can anyone recommend a good nondestructive TIM cleaner that works with IC Diamond?

 

To OP, can you please re-size the pictures on the first post, it is hard to look at everything.

Maybe try 100% Isopropyl Alcohol.

 

just curious to these problems appear on the P150HM too? Or is it completely a 15/17EM issue.

 

OK I shrunk the 1 giant pic to 1400 pixels so it'll fit onto a 1080p screen without adding scroll bars. What res are you using anyway?

Not sure. If the chassis are nearly the same I'd guess yes. I'd say its worth taking 10 minutes to test.

 

my reseller in germany say that its nomal.I dont see 90 in games so I think its ok but I would love to lower temp as much possible.Today with cooler weather and lower room temprature my furmark max was 87 and kombustor 80.All that with foil on radiator.Anyone ask reseller about that gap on gpu?

 

I believe most users in this thread are talking about these issues with a 7970M, but the 680M I got in my machine just yesterday experiences similarly high temperatures. And that card supposedly runs cooler >_>, in the default "balanced" power mode, it reaches 87-89 and flickers between those two in games. I was actually rather disappointed with that and plan to investigate.

Also I'm not sure how Ivy Bridge is running, but my machine usually idles around the low 50s C. Is that normal? 3720QM doesn't seem to ever go over 80C, but its lowest temp still seems rather high to me.

 

my 3610 idle around 45C and I never saw higher than 73C

 

Perhaps my heatsinks came loose in shipping. I have not taken the back panel off. I will do that tomorrow then. I have a tube of IC Diamond I can reapply if need be.

I want to run Kombuster for a good 10 minutes first though and see the GPU's max temp as is.

 

My 3820QM idles at 39-43C with a very thin layer of AS5.

 

Mate, you are new user and you made 4 pointless one sentence posts inside minute. Are you looking for quick ban?

 

not to mention you tried to attach 2 wierd jpg in your text

 

Looks like the admin got him.

Beefsticks, I'll be putting a 7970M in my P150HM, I'll be able to start some testing in a couple weeks on this.

 

just tried the fixes on my P150HM, they work temps dropped about 10-15 °C while apply slight pressure on the Heatsink near the Screw #1

 

As I have said before, I would try testing this while the laptop is right side up, as this is it's normal position, you may find this transfers the "hot spot" to the other side of the die.

I have an idea that I might pursue that would involve adding an additional piece of spring metal to the brackets to increase the down pressure on the HS. I have to look into sources and what not. I'll post more if I can find what I'm looking for.

 

if heatsink is not perfect flat than springs will not help

 

Beware that a few users have killed previous generation (HD5870) GPU's after modding the heatsink to apply increased pressure under the screws.

 

I just finished a 10 minute Kombuster run. The GPU topped out switching between 88 and 89 C. I'm not sure if the turbo fans kick in at 89C or 91C, but I'm guessing either they keep it 88-89C or would help if they'd kick on earlier.

EDIT: This is with a 680M and 3720QM, no modding as of yet, in the normal operating position normal side up with the lid open.

 

Intersting, those are 7970m type temps and HtWing's temps were considerably lower with his 680m.

 

sounds like your paste job is subpar

 

That's likely. However I'm starting to wonder if there's a fan threshold issue where the 100% PWM doesn't kick in til 90 deg. That seems to be the magic number. Could this entirely be caused by poor fan management? Also, does anyone know where the temp sensor actually is on these cards?

 

Did you miss this thread?
http://forum.notebookreview.com/hardware-components-aftermarket-upgrades/676007-three-tims-compared-clevo-p-170em.html

The EC will throttle the GPU fan to maintain temps ~85-90°C.

Can some of you try the latests beta of HWinfo64 which may be able to displays the fan RPM for some Clevo models:
HWiNFO32 and HWiNFO64 v4.01-1690 Beta released

Please report your success or failure in the following thread so the author may be able to adapt the software for different models:
Monitor CPU and GPU fan RPM on Clevo laptops

If you do manage to get RPM readouts, then post some pictures showing the GPU utilization, GPU temperature, Clevo EC fans and temps.

You won't distiguish the nuances in cooling performance without precise numbers on your Fan RPM and ambient temperatures and whether they are attibuted to cooling components (fan, heatsink, paste) or an EC issue (Fan RPM vs temperature thresholds...)

 

What Mav said. I just changed the OP to add more details about the warning that flipping it over it may shift the weight. The main point of the upside down test is that now you know the heatsink is not held on firmly enough.

You think the actual heatsink may be bent? I never thought about that. I think its OK on mine with the temp drop I got from the pressure fix.

My fan never kicks into %100, unless its about to light on fire. The only times it has gone to %100 is when temps are above 97C. I want custom profiles so I can set it to go to %100 when temps go above a desired set temperature.

 

Beefsticks et all:

I had a brain wave and had a closer look at the HS assemblies from my 485M and my 7970M. I've attached some photos I've taken of the two, and I was certainly corrected on what I said earlier about the generation to generation differences. Check out this album:

HSF Assembly Photo's

I apologise if they're confusing, I've tried to note them as best I can.

 

No, the size of the tabs is plain as day to me, even without side by side comparisons. They really cheaped out on the 7970's tabs. The physical configuration of the rest looks consistent even though the shape of the dies is different and the fins on the old cpu are aluminum. I betcha those thick tabs would help a bit unless somehow they bend just as easily.

Also, you've got some fuzz coming out of that gap between the CPU fan and fins on the old one