Clevo W740SU 14.1"

Still, seems too good to be true, I'd wait for other reviews. I'm digging the cooling system of this laptop though, I think it has the potential of being substantially quieter and/or cooler than more traditional designs.

 

I was curious to know how System76 got a lower weight than most other OEMS, and they said that the 3.8 pounds number was just the laptop on a scale without the charger (which is a pound itself.)

(Source: https://twitter.com/system76/status/359357583934496768)

I wonder if the rest of the OEMs have substantially different builds.

 

Yep, this has been my concern all along. System with dedicated GPU and faster CPU cost same or less and perform better than a system with the Iris Pro. Makes no sense. If this Iris Pro system cost $800, it would make sense and be worth a purchase, but as it stands you can get the W230ST for same price or cheaper and it will put the W740SU to shame. Only difference is 0.5" thickness, but also 0.5" wider, and 1" deeper.

 

For someone not too keen on gaming, is W740SU a good choice? Or am I better off getting a branded machine? I need a very portable machine that's powerful enough to grind thru the programming and code compiling that I'll be throwing at it. At one point I was looking at VAIO Pro 13" as well. So you know what kind of machine I'm in the market for.

Anyhooo... Galago Ultrapro posted some pics from OSCon. Still not sure if deliveries have started. Any other seller with deliveries beginning today?

-TC

 

On most computing benchmarks it is substantially more powerful though than the 750m. I wonder how much more one with a 4850HQ would be, considering the difference of only ~$40 that Intel says there is. I know they can't just swap it, but still the 4850HQ would justify a similar price if there's only that much difference. I don't game, and rather would find the advantage of computing and the L4 cache a better deal.

 

Where have you seen this?
In every review I've seen the GT3e falls behind the GT750 and even the GT640.

 

In the review linked in the last page and the Anandtech one for the 4950HQ.

Could you point me to the other reviews you're talking about please?

 

If you dont want to game then the models without the cache will do fine.

 

You should look at real games performance. In the same review you posted, it doesn't go over the GT650.
There's some synthetic benchs that seem to benefit the intel though, it seems to perform unusually high (OpenCL mostly) but I wouldn't count on it giving any real world benefits.

 

If you want to game, a dedicated GPU is still going to serve you better.

The iris pro is if you need a very specific form factor.

 

For some people, form factor is important. Not everyone wants to carry around a laptop that is over an inch thick. Also, for gaming, yes, a dedicated GPU is still better (though Iris Pro would probably be more than enough for a casual-moderate gamer). However, in computational bench marks, which translate into things like rendering video, compiling code, etc. the Iris Pro slaughters the GeForce GPU's. So it really depends if someone is buying a laptop for work or play primarily as to which is better suited. If they do mostly work, but want to be able to play games too, Iris Pro is better, if they primarily game but also do some video editing, coding, etc. then a GT/GTX GPU will serve them better.

Yes this is a good choice for someone who isn't a gamer. The Iris Pro does better in computational benchmarks (by a lot) than GeForce GPUs, so it would fit your described use better than a laptop with an Nvidia (or AMD for that matter) GPU. Mythlogic sells it with your choice of Ubuntu, Windows 7, or Windows 8 but they are not yet shipping either.

As far as gaming yes, but not for professional uses. See above.

OpenCL has huge real world benefits, just not to gaming. It allows your GPU to help your CPU with highly parallel compute tasks, reducing the amount of time it takes to render or compile a huge amount of things. Anyone who wants a decent GPU for work related tasks (compiling code, rendering video, etc.) cares way, way more about how a GPU does in OpenCL benchmarks than how many FPS a GPU delivers in Crysis 3.

As I have said several times above, if you use your GPU for work more than gaming, Iris Pro will also be better for you than a dGPU.

 

It's still a form factor thing.

If you need reasonably good AAA gaming performance, you have portable gaming machines like the W230ST (or Blade Pro if you prefer a thinner one). If you need OpenCL for work, anything with a mid-range AMD dGPU will do better.


Beside form factor and certain manufacturing issues, the only reason that I can think of for putting CPU and GPU into one die is HSA, which could be great for certain workloads, but is not available on Haswell chips.

 

Ok, I agree. But it still seems to me that it fits quite specific needs. Are you talking about OpenCL coding & development? Or apps in general?
I mean, I don't know any, but if it includes professional video and photoediting (namely photoshop), then I still think in most cases it's not recommendable to the usual user.

 

Gaming is a "specific" need as well. A lot people here care about AAA gaming performance, so people get used to it. But if you look at the big picture gaming on notebooks is a niche.

By the way, quite a few AAA game titles utilize OpenCL/CUDA as well.

 

I see two major benefits to this laptop:

1. It's thin and somewhat light.
It's silly to compare an ultrabook to a laptop that's ~60% thicker. It gives you a crapload more leeway for bulky and more powerful GPU's. Also note that it's a tad lighter even with a larger screen.

2. Intel has open source linux drivers -in the kernel-
I think this was the perfect laptop for system76 to choose. You get in-kernel support and you can avoid optimus which is buggy at best on Linux. For better or worse this machine will play pretty much any game currently released for Linux.

In conclusion:
If you're just looking for the most powerful sub-15" laptop you can get.... buy a w230st. If you plan on running Linux or care about how thick your computer is... I think the w740su is a compelling choice.

 

It is. What I mean is that probably an ultrabook without iris pro it's better for most people, it should be much cheaper. What is AAA gaming?

 

AAA stands for big budget commercial games that generate pretty screenshots but push your hardware.

Not every game is hard on graphics hardware. Many people prefer retro games, or games that target qualities other than graphics. There are also genres like large-scale strategy or hardcore physics-based sim that are usually not very hard on the GPU but push the CPU a lot.

 

I don't think it being a form factor thing is bad though. If I'm carrying a laptop in a bag around with me from one job to another all day, I don't want a 1.25-1.5" thick laptop, it is a deal breaker. Similar power in a slimmer body is a good thing if you ask me.

Not that Iris Pro machines are super common, but there aren't that many laptops available with AMD graphics and Intel processors, so I see Iris Pro as providing an additional option. As far as how much better the AMD GPUs are, I cannot say because I am having a hard time finding any benchmark scores for both gpus on the same benchmark

In professional photo and video editing, there is a marked improvement. The Iris Pro transcodes video much, much faster than nvidia GeForce graphics. Usual users? Maybe Iris Pro isn't the best choice (most usual users probably don't need Iris Pro or a dGPU). Gamers, go dGPU, professionals (in most cases), would be better served by Iris Pro unless they are getting a midrange or higher end FirePro or Quadro card (which costs quite a bit more than Iris Pro).

True, they do utilize OpenCL and CUDA as well, but in games you will still be better served by a dGPU despite Iris Pro's OpenCL advantage, though the range of 25%-60% performance differences in games may be explained by how much or how well a game uses OpenCL, but that is purely speculation on my part.

Yes most people will probably be better served by an ultrabook. Gamers will be better served by a dGPU. People who use programs that utilize OpenCL heavily, but aren't heavy in 3D graphics (eg photo and video editors) will be better served by Iris Pro.

AAA gaming means playing big name titles (Crysis 3, Metro: Last Light, etc.) vs playing less intense titles.

 

A review of this device has been posted, based on a build by Schenker. You can find the review here. Note that it's auf Deutsch.

The review is interesting because they compare the machine to a similarly priced ASUS, haswell notebook that has a GeForce GT 750M. For gaming, the nVidia machine seems to perform about 25% better (although this varies a lot from game to game). They say that for 3d games, they estimate the performance of IrisPro to be somewhere between that of the GeForce GT 730M and the GeForce GT 740M. For "computational gpu" tasks, sometimes the IrisPro was quite a bit faster than the nVidia card (e.g., WebGL, video transcoding).

It also appears that the integrated IrisPro solution does not really lead to less power consumption than the system with the nVidia card. The review ends off by noting a sentiment that's been kicking around here: given the price of chips which include the IrisPro graphics, you can possibly attain a better value by getting a higher-speced haswell cpu (but without the IrisPro graphics) and then add a GeForce GT 750M.

 

I read the entire review and saw those numbers, too. Alas, I cannot believe this - it HAS to be a mistake.
Haswell 4750HQ has 47W TDP and is presumeably running at max TDP in Crysis 3.
Haswell 4700HQ has 47W TDP too and Nvidia GT 750M uses another 35-40W. How can this combination use only 7 watts more when running Crysis 3? It doesn't make any sense.

 

With a 750M crysis 3 will be totally GPU limited and wont be stressing the CPU as much.

If you care about gaming at all stick with at least a 760/765 setup.

 

double post - i'm a noob

 

Does anyone know where/when this notebook will be available in the UK/England?

 

edit: double post

 

My current laptop is an i3-370M with an Nvidia GeForce 310M. I am primarily a software developer, but I do play Street Fighter and DotA 2.

My current setup is sufficient to play the games I play (though a slight improvement would be welcome). I'm just wondering if the 4750 and Iris Pro would outperform the 370M and GeForce 310M?

Sorry about the idiotic question, I'm just not so good with hardware.

 

Simply put yes. The only numbers I can find show a 3-4x boost in GPU performance, but then a 310M is a very low end and by now three year old part. There should also be at least a 2x boost in CPU power.

 

TDP doesn't determine power consumption but rather thermal dissipation. Besides, it seems that the GT750M has been really well optimized... That said, I expected a more noticeable difference though.. but I don't know, they don't say how they took the mesure, I guess we'll have to wait for a second opinion.

 

System76 is now shipping Galago Ultrapro (W740SU). Mythlogic is still saying it's preorder. Their price, however, has gone up in providing the "Free IC Diamond Thermal Compound."

Edit: Sorry, I'm wrong. The thermal compound has been there all along. So, it's the base price that has gone up by ~$20. Anyhoo... waiting for the first-hand reviews!

-TC

 

For multi-threaded workloads it would be a lot more than 2x and yes the GPU performance should be a lot better, the 310M is very weak.

 

Found another one here.
Other than the idle power consumption, I don't see much difference to this other one.
Do you think it could be due to the models? (4950HQ vs 4750HQ)

edit: found this:
Test Schenker S413 Notebook (Clevo W740SU)

 

AnandTech has a review up for this laptop! AnandTech | 90 Minutes with the Clevo W740SU, Featuring Iris Pro HD 5200

 

Nice, they're finally arriving.
They've confirmed the panel: B140HAN01

 

Test Schenker S413 Notebook (Clevo W740SU) - Notebookcheck.com Tests

90°C in full and 46db despite the monster special intel cooling system...Not impressive, runs hot. That's under extreme stress though
15 watts at idle...I've seen 15" laptop with dgpu idling at less than that.

But still, not a bad lap, gaming is very decent. Hard to dismount compared to other Clevos though. Too bad there's no Backlit keyboard at this premium price.

This lap has no advantage over a dgpu based lap in terms of power efficiency imo. The W230ST is a much better deal, easy to dismount and many sata ports and BK...

 

WAT

 

I agree. I see no point, other than being slightly more portable and 2 more hours of battery life.

 

For my use case this laptop seems to be perfect, if not a little bit overpriced. I'm kind of disappointed to hear that the finish is just plastic, I was under the impression that it is brushed aluminum. Hopefully it doesn't feel cheap.

My use case by the way is a Linux user. Optimus graphics are awful on Linux; while they do work, it's a pain having to keep on top of it to make sure it's working. I couldn't count on both hands the number of times I've done a kernel upgrade only to forget to upgrade Optimus (even though I installed it through dkms and it should auto update...) causing my battery to drain in ~45 minutes. It will be a God send to have Intel graphics that can perform decently well, in a small form factor without sacrificing raw CPU power or the ethernet port.

 

Are we sure it's all plastic? Granted the person speaking in this w740su video is ESL person, I thought I heard it's aluminum lid, if not the whole body. Oh well... add one more to the list along with non-illuminated/backlit keyboard that's keeping this machine from being an attractive option for business. I've placed an order for this, couldn't wait any longer for a new machine. I'll post a review when I receive it.... HTWingNut has set the bar very high for reviews!

 

System76 lists the laptop as part magnesium alloy, and some parts plastic. (from: GalU1 - Knowledge76)

The notebookcheck.de review lists it as: (via google translate)

The anandtech article doesn't comment on the build quality of the laptop, but does have a good image with the keyboard removed showing some of the internal construction.

 

What no one else seems to have noticed in this thread is that this machine features a DisplayPort, meaning that for me with a 2560x1440 display, this machine is just so much more attractive than a W230ST.
Why Clevo are taking this long to finally put displayports on something that's not mega high end I don't know.

 

Here as some good pics for this model. It is also the Sager NP2740 ....

 

Anybody here thinking of picking this lappy up? I'm a bit turned off by the lack of a backlit keyboard, and I got confirmation that the chassis has no aluminum, but It's tempting nonetheles. The W230ST is just so bulky, and all I really need this to run in terms of gaming is Dota 2.

It looks like the Lenovo X1C refresh isn't coming too soon and I doubt they'll fit this kind of power in it, so I think I may be stuck between the two Clevos

 

I have mine on pre-order from Mythlogic. I originally ordered from System76 but Mythlogic offered better hardware, support and warranty for the same exact price.

 

I'm not getting a new laptop for at least a few more months, but I'm seriously considering this one. Ideally for me it would be a similar laptop with the 4850HQ though, especially considering the supposed difference in price. Hopefully Clevo comes up with one before to long.

 

Just listed for Sager and their resellers.

 

I just checked out your website. The fact that there's no option to ship without an mSATA drive is a deal-breaker unfortunately. Any possibility that this might change? I was waiting for your XoticPC to get it cause I'd compared the 13" Clevo prices and it seemed the better one.

 

Test Asus N550JV-CN201H Notebook - Notebookcheck.com Tests

12W max at idle with full HD 15" screen and 750M dgpu....Funny thing is while battery life lasts longer at idling (7 hours), for the web surfing test it doesn't do better than the W740SU ( a little more than 4 hours) despite having a 59Wh battery vs 53Wh for the Clevo. Nice lap though, i keep this one in mind.

 

I guess the question here is how many Watts of those 47 are dedicated to the Intel GPU while it's running the Crysis 3.. Like at least 25-30W to get that level or performance, maybe the Anandtech article mentioned some specifics. So, if you subtract that from the 47W in case of 750M usage, it can make sense if the CPU runs at a similar level (the game is probably not CPU-heavy except the driver handling part).

Regarding the computing benchmarks, I guess the Nvidia drivers are holding the 750M down as they don't want to bite into their Quadro offers, but perhaps they might need to reconsider that if the Intel Iris Pro becomes more affordable and widespread.

Battery life in case of light internet usage on these Clevos seem to be VERY disappointing; with all the Haswell fanfare, I expected much better power management, but it seems this might be left for the laptops with traditionally impressive battery life (e.g. Macbook Air, Lenovo x220, Samsung Series 9 or 7, etc.). Not really sure what's going on here as not all of these are using ULVs (e.g. Lenovo and Samsung 7)..

I'm still waiting to see a well rounded 13" package to make me regret my Sony S13 purchase (I use the extra battery and plan to try to install the HD+ IPS screen I've just got for it, I don't think I need the Full HD on 13" unless it really interpolates well when using the HD+ for games).

 

one thing I learned from clevo, never expect them to design a decent mobo that will sip battery. the w230st has the same battery as the blade 14, however the battery life...

well the same thing usually goes for asus as well...

 

Doesn't the power consumption of the mobo depend largely on the chipset itself?

Regarding the comparison with the Asus laptop and the Crysis 3 power consumption benchmark, something that a commenter at Anandtech pointed out, this is the one game where both laptops are head to head, so another way to see it (probably more correct) would be that for about the same graphics ability, Iris Pro is actually using a handful fewer watts. I wonder why they chose Crysis 3 if it wasn't representative of most games.

 

So just how bad is the power consumption on this laptop? I mean, it's not on par with an underpowered ultrabook but just over 4 hours seems sufficient in most use cases.