Clevo control center 2.0 is the one causing throttling.

Yeah no. You're the one who doesn't understand.

The argument back then was that the TDP on Intel was rated for base clock and not turbo, hence the 8700 and 8700K have around the same TDP when running stock turbo. XMG was claiming that the 8700 non K was a 65W CPU which everyone with half a brain know that it's not true. So before making up your own story you might want to use that thing inside your head before posting.

@ agovtman
You're desperate aren't you? So what you're saying it's fine because you have 28 seconds 70Watts? You're actually rolling with that aren't you?

Sure I do my rendering and gaming on 28 seconds, longer than that is pretty much insane

 

Yes, that's what I'm saying. That's, with slight alterations to those figures, how every Intel laptop with a laptop CPU since a bajillion years works, as others have patiently tried to explain to you. And, like I stated previously, the lower long-term turbo power limit actually makes no difference to your typical workload nor to many synthetics such as Cinebench. If anything you're just wasting power and heating up your laptop for no real gain at some point... which is exactly why the limits you're talking about exist.

 

It looks like OW is not CPU intensive enough to trigger the CPU+GPU combined load EC throttle. Do you have any games or benchmarks/stress tests that heavily load the CPU and GPU at the same time?

 

Wrong. In my Clevo and MSI both PL states are at 200W because I don't have EC forcing my CPU to get gimped. Hence I can run my CPU's at turbo without breaking down for an unlimited amount of time.

 

Oh dear, here we go again.

This the thread in question, I'm posting this because YET AGAIN I'm being miss represented and suggested to be a fool:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/real-meaning-behind-turbo-and-tdp.813209/

Now then, where did I Ieave the other half of my brain? I guess it's not split into the two hemispheres or I wouldn't be able to type this with both thumbs....hmm, now the front half I normally use to use to bang against a brick wall......

 

Now he's got not one, but two 8750H that runs at 200W. I'm out.

I'm currently downloading Witcher 3 since there were many bones picked about that. It's 34GB so I'll probably be back tomorrow...

 

You could run Heaven and Prime95 (non-AVX Small FFTs 9 threads) at the same time and it'll be just as useful at weeding out any combined load throttle issues.

 

No, you're not going to get away with revising history like that

The TDP spec change was to do with the recommended thermal solution (TDP) and is DISTINCT from *actual power consumption* limits: PL2/long power.

You linked to a chart from a review that showed MCE-enabled power consumption and said that was the CPU using that much power - when all along it was that (iirc) Gigabyte MOTHERBOARD driving the CPU to maximum single core turbo clock under full all core load, without a timer that was causing that level of power use. That's outside the CPU turbo spec.

Then you said @XMG was lying when they were telling you the CPU in the system they sell doesn't run the same as that, as it doesn't have a MCE feature, where the CPU ISN'T overclocked by the motherboard. An 8700 will not use the same amount of power on a system where it isn't overclocked by default, can you not understand that?

 

No, I said my notebooks are set PL1 and PL 2 to 200W. Both have different CPU's (6700HQ and 4940MX), also I never said the CPU's would run at 200W, but the PL is 200W, VERY different story. Also the MSI GT 75 with the 8750H also has PL1 + PL 2 set to 200W, that's stock, thats also the reason the CPU isn't unstable on that machine, so get the hell out of here.

@bennyg:
Exacly, try to get a 65TDP Heatsink on a 8700 non K and run it stock on a mainboard that isn't set it's TDP to 65W, it's a disaster because the CPU dissapates much more heat.

Wrong, I linked a chart that showcased the power consumption without MCE enabled, the CPU was running at 4.3ghz, NOT 4.7ghz. The MCE thing is something you made up.

 

@Danishblunt will never ever understand how processors, power limits and such technologies works. He has showed this several times. Wasted time trying to explain him this. He even said LLC was undervolt And delidding/Liquid metal was useless and wouldn’t help on processor temp in laptops.

 

No argument there but yet again I'll say PL2 and TDP are separate things please stop conflating the terms
The 65W TDP is the Intel recommendation and engineers are free to build beefier heatsinks if they want
This is probably why (even K / HK SKU) laptops are rarely sold without power limits, be happy with the stock GT75, I've needed Premamod on all Clevos prior to P870 to have those settings unlocked.
This is unlike the desktop Z chipset boards without any PL1/PL2 limits (MCE by default or not) used by reviewers where the unconstrained CPU can draw ~150W stress test power consumption by default

Made up? fair enough looking at it again I can't now see overt proof of MCE in their review or charts ... maybe they revised their review, maybe I'm getting my wires crossed with someone else arguing with me way back months ago then whose outrage at CFL-s power consumption was mixed with a lack of or unwillingness to understand turbo limits and MCE, maybe I just misread the chart as CPU-only power consumption and assumed 180W was beyond stock 8700/8700K so had to be MCE, maybe I assumed 150W had to be an MCE-on state when where was no review that had yet shown consumption that high or properly tested 8700/8700K without PL1/PL2 limits, I can't remember. So I was probably wrong to mention it in this thread and give you an easy out to pick on

Anyway. I've been playing with a N950TP for the past few hours, LGA socket i5 8400, it has an 8 second 81W turbo (standard +25% PL1) then 65W long power/PL2. Of course the 8400 gets nowhere near this as it uses ~55W on a 6 core AVX load (at max 6-core turbo multi since it's always below PL2) but assuming a 8700 uses the same limits how exactly would it NOT be "a 65W CPU"?

 

Any news when the new update for CC will release for every Clevo laptop?

Planning to buy a Cevo Nextcore GK5CN6Z and want to make sure the CCC bug will be fixed.

Also wondering where to download the latest drivers for this model. When visiting the driver website of Clevo I cannot seem to find this laptop.

Thanks!

 

Hi

I don't have the public tease date for the newer CCC at the moment, will find out what's happening when I speak with our team tomorrow.

The laptop you mentioned is actually a Tongfang chassis, not Clevo. Nextcore is the name of a Spanish reseller, I think the confusion has occured because the websites clevocenter.fr and .de sell the 'Nextcore GK5CN6Z' laptop. However, the company behind clevocenter is not in any way related to Clevo the chassis manufacturer, they just use the clevo name to trade (without permission).

You can find lots more info about the Tongfang chassis in the below thread, lots of companies now sell this including us (as the XMG NEO 15).

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/tongfang-gk5cn5z-and-tongfang-gk5cn6z.815943/page-5

If you need Clevo chassis drivers, or Tongfang for that matter, the desert should always provide them on their website. If you go to www.clevo.com.tw you can reach the official Clevo website which does have a download section but the company you buy the laptop from should always be your first point of call. Hope this helps.

 

Dont want to hijack this thread but we are doing a free Control Center alternative.



We did not add any Power controls yet, that should be next.
I would say that something like this + something like TS for CPU should provide all the tools advanced users need.

 

Many thanks for your feedback! Will you post the update from the team in this group once you have it?

So the Nextcore is in fact exactly the same laptop as the Neo 15 and they are both based on Tongfang and not Clevo?

Does this mean it doesn't run the CCC?

I live in Spain myself, hence Clevocenter is the only option for me to get this amazing laptop. They seem to provide great service according to reviews and also offer a screen calibration service which I couldn't find on e.g. Schenker's website.

 

Yes sure, updates to follow in this thread!

The Nextcore model is the same laptop as the NEO 15, however we have a sandblasted aluminium finish whereas most other companies have a brushed aluminium finish. The sandblast version is a little more expensive, but in our opinion it looks better as it doesn't have those brushed lines.

CCC is a Clevo software tool, it's only found on Clevo chassis.

Clevocenter is in Portgual, the company Nextcore is actually a little more complicated than I thought as it seems to also be a Portuguese website but it states "This is a demo store. Any orders placed through this store will not be honored or fulfilled" so it's probably somehow assoiated with clevocenter. Clevocenter sell clevo chassis as for example "CLEVO PA71EP6-G" which is the Clevo model number for the chassis and then they sell what all look like TongFang chassis as "Nextcore xxx" models - again using the TongFang chassis name.

I think most resellers on this forum would agree with me when I say that the country you live in shouldn't limit you to which company you purchase from. We sell worldwide, companies in the US ship to Europe sometimes and different companies in different EU countries have their pros and cons. I have no direct experience with clevocenter, I just know about this http://www.clevo.com.tw/clevo_newsdetail.asp?id=194&lang=en .

Screen calibration - widely discussed on this forum and many others. You'll find different screen profiles for most of the chassis that we sell on our driver download page, these can be used by anyone and there should be three profiles for most chassis. However these are preset profiles, we don't offer individual screen calibration and here's why:

- calibration is something that is more beneficial on high gamut or high colour space panels. Most laptops like the Tong Fang chassis don't have what most would call a high gamut panel and so the benefits of individual calibration are limited
- if you need calibration for pro photo or video work, you should always calibrate yourself. This is because you need accurate colours in the environment that you use the laptop, ambient lighting and other factors will affect the calibration so there's no point in having it done in a production facility with flourescent lighting if you're going to be using the laptop at home with tungsten lighting
- calibration is used to match a display with the colour space and with printers, so that printed media is accurate.
- proper calibration doesn't just make the colours more accurate on the panel (and with low-mid gamut panels you're just changing the settings, if it has a red of green bias then a simple calibration can adjust this)

To conclude:

1/ calibration from the reseller can have benefits if the panel model has poor colour accuracy by default (which most don't)
2/ if you need calibration for pro work of really even amateur work then you should always calibrate yourself

 

Many thanks for your detailed feedback. My issue is however that I video and photo editing is a hobby if mine (using a A7III for 4k recording), but I don't have any calibration equipment. Of course I can always download the color profile from e.g. Notebookcheck. Regarding such profiles, if they were created on the same HW and screen, will they provide the same great results on my laptop?

Yesterday I sent Schenker support an email through Mysn.de with some questions regarding their service and warranty. They are located in Germany. Are you working for the same company?

Till 23:59 tonight EU time they have a 7% discount which would allow me to order my preferred config from their website. As I have a budget Cap of 1900 EUR for the Neo15, I won't be able to buy it without this discount.

Hopefully they will revert to me before the end of the day.

 

You're welcome!

Correct, same company (website name mysn.de is a long story since 2003, changes are being made and big things are on their way!!!):

- Company is Schenker Technologies GmbH based here in Leipzig, Germany
- We have two main sub-brands; "XMG" which is gaming biased but really more perofrmance systems and then "SCHENKER" which is workstations, servers, office laptops, ultrabooks and so on.

This thread is going way off topic, so if you want to continue this chat in pm then please feel free to message me (I can check with support if you haven't had an email answer yet if I have your name or email - they are usually getting back to people quite quickly but when we have promotions on it often gets very busy). But to quickly answer the other questions:

- default profiles are available, but if you pm me your email or name I will have a couple of different profile done for you for your NEO 15 and then you can test them and see which is best in your usage environment
- With the 72% NTSC colout space it's unlikely that you will see any difference between a generically created profile compared to one created specifically for your panel - unless there's something wrong with your panel! The tollerance between individual panels is very very low, add to that a colour space below 90% NTSC and I struggle to see any difference at all.
- if you have thoughts on your A7 III for photo only then we can definitely have a discussion about that! I'm really struggling with my decision to replace my 6D - I'm 99% sure I don't need more than an A7 II but the upcomming A6700 is plaing on my mind and FF vs crop, urrrgh - you must have considered the A6500 for 4K vs the A7 III? We should keep this chat to pm though or we will incur the wrath of the mods for going off topic!!!!

 

Thanks again! Just sent you a PM with some final questions as well as regarding the camera

 

Are the keyboard settings the same as the standard control center or are there more options?

 

Any time! Just replied to your pm.

 

Version 1.0.34 is what we currently have on our download page and this is the version we sent back to notebookcheck so they could re-evaluate and then commented that the throttling in stress tests/benchmarks that they reported and that others on here (and us) noticed. This does stop the CCC throttling in certain applications which were being affected - including 3DMark, Witcher 3 and others. You still have the EC controlling absolute perfomance and performance levels based on the internal maximum power usage and temperatures etc, but it's no longer being affected by the CCC software.

It's especially important for me to re-itterate that the CCC profile is going to put the bias in different areas. For example, Entertainment mode has been designed to bias system noise and temperatures over performance; Performance mode puts the bias on performance (where you'll have higher fan speeds and thus higher system noise). This is of course purposeful - whether we agree or disagree that this is a good idea or if it's well implimented is a different matter. But if you run Firestrike to check the un-CCC-throttled performance or Witcher 3 or Furmark, you need to run in Performance mode.

I can confirm that this new CCC version specifically addresses the problems discussed - we spent a lot of time looking at the problem here, discussing with Clevo and then working with notebookcheck who gave us the opportunity to have a couple of laptops re-evaluated which had suffered from "bugs" with the older CCC that was installed in the review systems.

Also lots of members on this forum such as @ahmad hendeh have provided really helpful information (this isn't an Oscar's acceptance speech but I can't remember everyone I should thank).


[ Also posted this here http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-evoc-pa71es-g-review.817866/page-12#post-10766157 with a link to direct discussions to this thread ]


EDIT / UPDATE - we are still testing this solution, I can't guarantee that the version of CCC ( 1.0.34 ) will give the same results as when CCC is uninstalled in every title. It also depends on the BIOS running on the machine and other factors. The "issue" is still being worked on.

 

Nice, will this work on P950HR? And if so where can I get it?

 

Follow development here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-drivers-update-utility-by-obsidian-pc.801464/page-160

 

It's alpha friday :3
You gonna release today or will you delay?

 

I see you are really eager for a alpha, also known as it will crash / bug like crazy.

Sent from my MI Note 2 using Tapatalk

 

No fun without bugs. Plus no matter what it can't be worse than CCC garbage.

 

Although the first alpha will probably be for systems with only up to three fans ( 1 gpu and up to 2 gpu )...

Sent from my MI Note 2 using Tapatalk

 

Perfect for me (P950)

 

works for me

Only way for you to get through faster and do bugfixes is when people like me who have the 1CPU 2GPU Fan setup test it for you and do an extensive bug report. I want to help making the process faster

 

If only I could stop adding features and just publish it!!!!
But im the most picky guy when it comes to fans.
Guess this should be enough for almost anyone to be able to set proper rampings:


Although now that i think about it i would still like to add a multiplier per temperature range, which is basically the higher the temperature the faster it will rev up, and i just though i want to add a Load Prediction option!!! Ohhhh.... and the Duty Transfer for shared cooler system is not done yet.... Some many ideas....

 

I mean if you want to delay the alpha release then feel free to do so

 

I just spent the remaining of my day fighting to make everything to work with optimus units... i kinda totally forgot about the optimus thing.... :O
Think is decent for Alpha... now time to pack it up for first alpha testing.
Not sure ill have time today!!!

 

It's fine we will wait
give it time!

 

Are you planning on making the temperature ranges for fan speed settings modifiable or are they always fixed to the same values (...71-75; 76-80; 81+)? And if they are modifiable, by how much / what would the minimum range be? Just wondering how granular it will be...
All in all, a great job!

 

The fact that there is a dial above it should be enough to tell you it can be changed

I can make all ranges 0-100, but for the sake of security and usability there's some sane limits at the moment.

Sent from my MI Note 2 using Tapatalk

 

Excellent news! Figured as much but having your confirmation is better still. Keep it up, it's looking great!

 

Go ahead and test, blast me with bug reports!!!!! http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-by-obsidian-pc.801464/page-163#post-10768682

 

Can you provide a link? latest i find is 5/24/18

 

The situation is a little more complicated than it first appeared - I also added this edit:

"EDIT / UPDATE - we are still testing this solution, I can't guarantee that the version of CCC ( 1.0.34 ) will give the same results as when CCC is uninstalled in every title. It also depends on the BIOS running on the machine and other factors. The "issue" is still being worked on."

The new CCC is available on our driver download page but I can't link to it as it's against nbr forum rules.

 

How do I uninstall CCC? I cannot find it in Programs

 

Are you looking at the kiddy "add or remove programs" or are you looking at the control panel "Programs and Features"?

 

Found it in CP. Will this disable my rgb backlit keyboard?

 

It will leave it at the stock blue.

 

Is there a way to turn it off at startup? It doesn't appear in task manager, nor task scheduler. Maybe there's a way to autorun a .bat that auto-taskkills CCC?

 

The keyboard is controlled by the embedded EC, the CCC interfaces with this time set any preferences. If CCC does not run the keyboard will start and remain with its blue backlight. You can turn this off with the keyboard shortcut still but it will turn back on at power on.

 

So If I order a Eurocom Q8 or the OriginPC equivalent, as of Aug 28th what do I do with this control software? I don't really care about the keyboard lighting, but is there a new version I can load that will alleviate the problem? Do I need to get a new BIOS? I have not yet ordered the system but plan on ordering it from the Eurocom Website (to get GSync) today or tomorrow.

Should I just uninstall Control Center, or wait for it to get fixed for real since it may require a new bios update, and I would rather have them do that while they build it.

-Roger Uzun

 

If I Uninstall the Control Program what do I lose, other than the ability to change keyboard backlighting?

 

Guess I'm uninstalling CC.exe. Not sure if it's a bug or intentional. Either way, it alleviates GPU throttling, plus I undervolted my CPU for great temps

 

Has this issue of throttling due to Control Center been fixed yet? If so which version has the fix?