Feedback to Clevo R&D Team: What's missing or broken in your Skylake laptops?

As the title implies, this thread is to post feedback on what is missing or broken (malfunctioning) in your Skylake Clevo laptop. Be sure to elaborate so others (especially Clevo) have a clear understanding of what is missing or broken so they know what needs to be done to rectify the problem.

I am creating this thread after some dialogue with Eurocom. I think we can expect that they will be watching this thread, reporting the critical issues to Clevo and acting as our advocate with the R&D team to get things rectified. I'm sure other Clevo/Sager resellers will be watching as well, and sharing their thoughts with the Clevo distribution channels they purchase their product from. It should be safe to say that all of them want things to work right to keep their customers happy and the brand at the top of the food chain in high performance notebooks.

It is OK to express your feedback even if someone else has already posted the same feedback. The more people that express the same thing is missing or broken, the more likely it is that Clevo will consider it urgent enough to do something about it.

Please do not post off-topic or make suggestions for new features. We already have a Clevo wish list thread. Please, do not present any petty gripes or personal pet peeves in this thread. Posts that are blatantly off-topic will be reported for deletion by a moderator. However, please do feel free to quote, express your agreement with, discuss, elaborate, or ask questions about what others have already posted that is on topic.

If you created a thread to document your unresolved issue with something that is missing or malfunctioning with your Skylake-powered Clevo, please post about it here in a clear manner and feel free to include a link to your thread as well.

I will go first. Below are a few things that I would like to see taken care of as soon as possible. Be sure to share what model(s) you have that are affected.

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Manual Fan Controls
Having FN+1 for max fans is really awesome for benching or strenuous situations. Thank you for that. I use it frequently. However, running the fax on max speed is ridiculous for 24/7 cooling. The stock fan tables are messed up. Fans don't run when they ought to and sometimes run when they don't need to. We should be able to use the HWiNFO64 fan control feature and/or Almico SpeedFan to set up our own custom fan profiles on Clevo the same as what is possible on Alienware. Clevo Control Center is messed up and doesn't get the job done. Whatever they have done to block this from working in the EC or BIOS needs to be unblocked. It's ridiculous that this is locked down. Please open it up for third-party utility control access so your customers can tailor things to suit their own needs.

Keyboard LED Controls
We need to separate the LED keyboard configuration tool from Hotkey (Clevo Control Center) as a standalone utility so those that do not want Hotkey can still manage the LED system. Clevo Control Center causes issues for some and needs to be fixed, but separating LED controls would make a lot of us happy that do not want Hotkey installed. Personally, I don't want Hotkey and would have no use for it other than the keyboard LED controls. It sucks having to install it for no other reason.

Heat Sink Quality Control
Clevo makes some really good heat sinks. The problem is quality control. When they fit well they do a nice job. Too many of them are warped, deformed or just fit too sloppy from the factory and need to be replaced. I've had to pay for two of them out of my own pocket because there was no warranty available. Others have needed to have their heat sinks replaced on brand new systems that were running too hot because the original parts did not fit correctly.

My Affected Models
P870DM-G (sold), P870DM3 (pending delivery)

(Note: My currently owned P750ZM and my previously owned P570WM are also affected by all of the above, although they are not Skylake models... these are things that Clevo has needed to address since before Skylake.)

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@Eurocom Support @EurocomTechspert @Prostar Computer @SagerPR @Meaker@Sager @mythlogic @John@OBSIDIAN-PC @Larry@LPC-Digital @pat@XOTICPC @Tanner@XoticPC @clevo-extreme @tanzmeister @XMG @Prema

 

holding....
P870DM3

1: Fans need to be control separate from everything else. Just like you have Max fans, it would be nice if it was max/medium/low/auto. Hit key combo once/twice/three times/4 times. And then also software control for tailoring.

 

For P65_67RP/RS...


1. Thunderbolt is fully disabled in bios.. Working on way to enable it would be great because its there and is more to offer against competition and it works fine!! (on my P670 at least)

2. Enable Voltage control within bios for HQ series because XTU messes with Clevo control center too much... It makes no sense to disable that but leave xmp and timing control available

3. In CCC please nuke tray icons for flexikey, gpu oc and gpu mode.... The led for mode on laptop makes it redundant and nobody needs 4 icons for one program (more of a wish than an issue)

4. GSync... Its almost always broken. Maybe opening a communique with Nvidia so they dont keep pushing it aside would help...especially if more and more laptop manufacturers stepped into fold to let them know.

More coming later....

Sent from my ZTE A2017U

 

Better keyboard firmware.
Better quality control on the heat sinks.
While at it maybe make the heat sinks a little bit beefier. There is definitely space.

Most if it though has already been covered in the OP.

 

Thanks for posting, bro.

Everyone please feel free to repeat what is said by others to make it clear we are not nit-picking about isolated instances of one-off problems or venting about individual pet peeves. Multiple complaints of the same problems/issues will be important for any hope that things will be addressed. If you want to take the easy route, you can quote another post and say something like "I need these same problems fixed and my model is _________."

 

Larger keyboard / better keyboard layout!

EC firmware / fans spin up randomly on P775, even without load with the official Clevo Control Center with XTU module embedded.

When going full screen DSR then back to original display size, the icons in the task bar are distorted.

High latency on Nvidia drivers.

System stability is hit and miss sometimes - need help with this - should have a default state where it's fully stable

Only the CPU fan spins up randomly and with a pretty unhealthy sound to it.

Overall driver and software inegration and stability can be - instable sometimes - very hard to configure without a lot of knowledge beforehand.

 

Most of these issues are caused by external tools/software . There ain't much Clevo can do about it.
The blurriness Is a Windows Scaling issue.
DPC LATENCY is a Nvidia driver problem.
Fans spinning / not spinning is a problem caused by XTU .

 

External Reset button for clearing CMOS nvram without removing battery

 

That is sort of a "wish list" item, but I think it fits appropriately under the category of "missing". It is very important because some models (P775DM I think may be one example) it is too difficult to access the CMOS battery. It should not be difficult to clear NVRAM, and sometimes that can mean the machine is "soft-bricked" (unbootable) until the NVRAM is cleared. Thanks for posting this.

@steberg - does this affect your P751DM2-G? Is accessing the CMOS battery an extraordinarily difficult feat, or simply inconvenient?

 

I think the last issue may actually be something they can address. XTU would not be causing problems with fans if the EC/BIOS worked correctly. I cannot think of a good excuse for this. Clevo needs to correct whatever the conflict is. It may be the same problem, or related to, whatever the issue is that blocks us from using HWiNFO64 fan controls or Almico SpeedFan. There is no excuse for XTU to cause malfunction on certain models of Clevos.

I do agree the other items are not Clevo issues.

 

Reserved....

 

Gotcha.
But wasn't the HWInfo fan support dropped by the author ?
The EC on our system definitely be improved , by a lot.

 

Not so hard but inconvenient, it would be so much better with a small push button that you press for 10 sec and CMOS is cleared. Specially for these enthusiast notebooks.

 

Hmm, good question. Not that I know of, but I have not owned an Alienware for about 6 months. I hope it was not discontinued by @Mumak. It was a valuable feature.

Maybe @iunlock can tell us. It never worked on Clevos while I still had Alienware systems that it worked on. The icon to access fan controls was missing on a Clevo, including the Sky X9/P870DM-G while it was fully functional on Alienwares I owned along side the Sky X9/P870DM-G.

 

Sorry if everything mentioned before Be free to edit my post. Or you can edit my post and I copy and change... To make it more easily understood

Better quality control on the heat sinks. Or even better... Make quality heatsink with greater headroom for overclocking. Especially the processor heatsink can be improved.

Unified heatsink is undesirable/unwanted. Never use shared heatpipes between cpu / gpu. IF THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE... ONLY USE UNIFIED HEAT SINK FOR SLI GRAPHICS.
Edit. Here is an example of how undesirable a unified/shared heatsink between cpu/gpu can be http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...nware-17-r4-15-r3.797378/page-7#post-10374917

External reset button for clearing CMOS nvram. Dual bios chips.

Use oversized specifications of the motherboardS components.

No volt cap. You should be able to use whatever you want of voltage on cpu.

It should have been possible with splitting the Clevo Controll center in more sections. So you can choose what you want to install in the package. Not everything in CCC is wanted.

White LED lighting as standard in the firmware / hardware. Or you can choose in the bios if you want lighting or not.

Larger keyboard for 17 inches models

 

It was worked for a few Clevo's for bit, and then it was dropped. At lest thats what i remember reading on the forum.

There are a few more things that i have in mind that can be fixed on the system. Will add them to this post later tonight once im home.

 

I'll add this even though it's getting off topic.
Hwinfo does not work on most if not all regular desktop boards, so as notebook boards progress, it is also possible that it will never work with them either....Speculation of course...
Fixes need to be manufacture related and not 3rd party.... Else it's not a fix. (Lets not use XTU as an example either. )

 

The fan control icon and the ability to control the fans + set custom profiles is still present on the AW.

 

Martin on Hwinfo says about the same. It is impossible to provide support for fan control for all laptops. And such support will not come. Fan control app or fan profiles in bios are Clevo's responsibility. Clevo should do more in this sector.



<The fan control icon and the ability to control the fans + set custom profiles is still present on the AW> @iunlock Dellienware and mr. Azor should be glad that this is still possible. Alienware is soon the only brand without a fan control app in their main software (and no key command to force max fans on the fly as well).

 

I'll add my 2 cents.

1) Fan Control (including Control Center)

Fan control doesn't work as it should. I would like to see this fixed. They don't ramp up and down as they should. Nor is there an reliable way to set custom fan profiles (CCC has never worked properly). Ideally I'd like to see a BIOS solution to this, however I'd appreciate even a software solution if it actually worked properly.
It's simply not good enough for a premium system. In fact I'm sad to say it's horrendous.

2) LED control

Led lighting doesn't always stick. Or only changes to the profile color after Windows loads. Also I'd like to see a simple static option. ie the lights don't breathe, simply they stay on.

Affected models
P870DM-G (sold)
P870DM3 (incoming)

 

Indeed. If Clevo will step up to the plate and do things right, third-party fixes, mods and workarounds will be unnecessary... one of the reasons we need this thread is because they have not. I'd even go as far as saying we would only need help from Brother @Prema fixing NVIDIA's firmware messes with his awesome vBIOS mods if Clevo would do things correctly with the system BIOS. All of the settings we want and need (which Prema provides to us) would be accessible and functioning flawlessly, and Clevo products would be awesome to all of their customers, not only those blessed with Prema BIOS mods. Thank God we have him, but shame on Clevo for us needing to employ his talent and skills. Hiding things as basic UEFI and CSM and other OS/drive configuration settings is totally inexcusable, even for turdbooks with locked CPUs. Just because all of the other OEMs are equally retarded with BIOS access doesn't give Clevo a legitimate excuse for lameness. They should be better than their competitors in all ways, not only in offering superior hardware.

 

I concur that Clevo needs to fix all 3 of those issues, I have also experienced those issues (Manual Fan Controls, Keyboard LED Controls, and Heat Sink Quality Control).

 

• Touchpad-related BSOD with Clevo hotkey app/control center being the fault needs to go. To truly remove this, a registry edit denying the clevo app access to the keyboard (which doesn't seem to impact functionality much) is necessary. This should never happen, and has been a problem since the P6xxSx models, and was last pointed out to me on a P770DM, so I'm listing it as a skylake problem to be fixed.
• Need the ability to flush default settings into the clevo app for everything it affects. I and others have had to, more than once, and it's especially bad on the current generation of notebooks apparently, reinstall the clevo apps entirely; and each doing of this resets windows power plan settings among other things, and requires multiple reboots.
• Clevo app needs to interfere with as little programs as possible. Logitech's G633 and G933 headset drivers, for example, have serious conflicts with clevo's app and the headsets to my knowledge cannot be used because every reboot sticks them as 7.1 audio drivers but they only produce two channels of sound, effectively leaving 5 channels and the subwoofer silent. No thanks. The only known fix I've found is to use the laptop without the clevo app for cases like these, but then that means features like... headset jacks working after sleep stop functioning, etc.
• Official drivers for Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 are nonexistent. They need to be existent. I won't get into why Windows 10 is so bad, but there are many legitimate reasons to not use it, and it's rather difficult right now.
• Also, the motherboards need the proper legacy/CSM support by default to handle OSes ranging from 7 to whatever comes after 10.
• We *NEED* proper quality control for heatsinks. Getting warped heatsinks is a huge pain, especially with how OEMs like to state that unless turbo is dropped even if you're at thermal throttle you're "functioning properly". And no unified heatsinks unless directly necessary, please.
• Make sure optimum thermal pad placement is there. I've seen a good few notebooks from the skylake generation benefit after adding thermal pads in places they did not exist by default. You're making your own cards now, you should know best what needs cooling when you're doing your testing.
• Please, don't simply revamp a last generation model while keeping the basic cooling solution for new hardware unless you are certain without a shadow of a doubt that it can cool things properly. The P775DM3 (6700K + 1080 denotes a DM3 as far as I know) is borderline constant throttle without a lot of aftermarket tweaking done to a system. This shouldn't happen. Re-do the models properly, upgrade cooling when necessary. Pascal is too much hotter for you to keep Maxwell's cooling design, even if Maxwell's design worked fine. The next generation might be a similar situation.
• Support your models longer. P870DM and P770DM etc should still get updates with drivers for stability and whatnot; whatever you fix in the newer models... even if they're not getting new cards, they are still buggy (as I said above).
• Fix your firmware and EC. There's a lot of bugs related to sleep mode and power throttling, among other things. And kill all forms of current limit throttling in all notebooks you release before releasing them. You don't want Prema to write the base code for your BIOSes, even if you sell them locked from the get-go? Fine. Pick up the slack yourselves, then. There's no excuse for a large company like you to be outdone by one person working on the goodwill of others who doesn't even get your notebooks for free.
• Better keyboards. No two or three keys should ever elicit a lockout of pressing new keys; 5-6 should be the minimum. Even consider lower profile mechanical keyboards as an option if necessary; I know Lenovo and *shudder* Razer are using some.

 

I was wondering if it's possible to create a special custom socket that will no longer require Intel's BGA CPUs to be soldered? Or solder the CPUs on a sort of a small electronic board that can be swapped in/out of the motherboard. Also QHD/4K displays need to be made available on all models. Clevo has been really falling behind in the display segment.

 

You wouldn't happen to know why Eurocom does not have bios signing rights would you?

 

Thinner and lighter chassis plox, you can do this by soldering everything to motherboard, just kidding do not do this... ever!!!

Ok so manuel fan control, possibly via macro key, instead of keyboard FN +1, proper 17" keyboard instead of the 15" keyboard on a 17" laptop, backlight software separate and standalone, I also wouldn't mind a mechanical keyboard, even if it means larger chassis .
Better quality control on heatsinks, no more unified heatsink between CPU-GPU, make the CPU heatsink a bit beefier, as CPU's tend to run warmer, do no skimp out on the fans, go out of your way to integrate powerful and reasonably quiet fans even if it means they cost double what the ADDA fans cost .
Fix your EC and firmware, separate CCC into modules do not make an all in one package .
Support your models longer, 3 gens at the very least, you are selling a premium product, do not alienate your consumers by leaving them out to dry at the very first upgrade chance .

I will probably add to this upon receiving my P870DM2 .

 

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"Fn + D + power button"

 

Only for DM2-3?

 

Works also on original DM, but you will need to update the ECs.
NOTE: If you are Prema Mod user and update to stock versions you will enter 'throttle hell'!!!

 

HaHa. I think I can handle Nvram reset on the old fashion way as before And I don't need to do it anymore. As long I stay clear from using XTU, LOL

 

Please be very specific in your comments. What specific improvements of EC would you like to see?

 

There is no TB3 in P6xxRP/RS models - it is USB 3.1 port only which is not Thunderbolt 3. Only DM2 and DM3 models have TB3. We are pushing TB3 along with eGPU TB3 F/W support for many years for smaller laptops too so we can use eGPU.

 

Isnt it using alpine ridge controller? The bios has thunderbolt control options hidden and fully disabled, mines still cooperating when enabled.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U

 

You might want to ask Clevo to validate the alpine ridge controller in the machines for TB3 as well as the usb 3.1 it is providing and offer it as a higher SKU then

 

Definitely need better fan control! Maybe allow us to do a custom fan curve within the clevo control center?

Heatsinks as mentioned need better QC control. My P570WM CPU heatsink was garbage and so is my P870DM CPU heatsink!

I'm hoping my P870DM3 doesn't have this issue.

For the outside LED lighting, why can we only use the breathe effect?

I can't think of anything else atm.

 

Oooh....they could maybe sync keyboard and outside led effects.

Like music reactive toggles...asus used it as load indicators too once upon an age but i dont think your gonna flip pc around to see estimated cpu and ram usage.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U

 

It has issues like retaining memory timings/settings even after a reset. A lot of times after you setup the BIOS and select XMP, the system either refuses to boot or takes way too long.
Higher power limits.
Better memory compatibility, without having to use fully custom settings to be able to main stream memory modules.
Add the option to be able to disable the internal display in the BIOS. When there are 2 monitors connected to the system, the color management gets completely messed up because the system doesn't properly report to the OS that the internal display is turned off even with the lid down.
With even a few peripherals connected, sometimes the port with keyboards/mice connected, that running at @ 1000Hz polling rate, randomly loose connection and need to be plugged in a out to resume functionality.


Have a separate fan control app that lets us set custom curves. The settings in the control center never worked for me. For some it worked after installing xtu, which for most people made matters even worse.
The keyboard has N-Key roll over issues, im not sure if it is EC related, or if it needs a separate keyboard firmware fix.
The LED lighting isnt saved , and is Software dependent. Quite a lot of us arent really a fan of the Clevo Control Center either.

 

@Eurocom Support
And make white the default color in the controller. I and a lot of other doesn't use Clevo CC. + Fans who react faster under very rapid high load.

 

All good conversations, folks. I've got a huge wish list of wants, too. Let's be mindful that our intended audience is Clevo R&D and the goal is to document the problems (things that are missing or malfunctioning) so we can get those issues fixed. I am emphasizing this since we are on page #4 and sometimes not everyone reads the opening post.

Thanks for clarifying those issues... appreciate it. Should help Clevo understand better as well.

 

Probably just echoing what others have suggested but my personal issues are;

1. Fan profile - auto fans provide best audible experience whilst auto is extremely intrusive, it'd be nice to see somewhere in-between. Also fans ramp up and down randomly so this needs smoothing out.

2. 1080 cooling - Just not sufficient to handle this beast in a 775dm3-g. Would be nice if they rolled out a performance solution or even fixed this with a bios update/GPU UV.

3. BIOS - similar to above. I have a 6700k and 1080 in the 775dm3-g and UV'ing is mandatory to keep the machine sub 90c.

Everything else is fantastic. Its pretty obvious that notebooks are hindered by operating temps. To see Clevo conquer this would be something special.

With all points made, it'd be nice to see them come up with solutions for existing customers as well as rolling out improvements to future machines. It'd be a kick in the balls having just purchased my 775dm3-g for them to turn around and say "oh the next model is going to have fantastic cooling solutions".

 

For GPU UV, you can always contract Prema for an UV vBIOS whenever he gets the time to make a vBIOS for 1070/1080. Same with BIOS.

 

Cooling on the GPU? It's supposed to be 70C max if raised above the table - and fans on OC / MAX.

If you're getting more - you can consider a repaste / heatsink problems...

 

I also would like to see better fan behavior. When gaming the fans are off completely until the gpu hits 80C, then they kick in at full power until the temps hit about 60C, and turn off again, and it repeats as a cycle every minute or so. It is very irritating and just not an adequate attempt at fan management. But I guess that's why the manual recommends using FN+1 for gaming. What I would really like would be if, as someone suggested earlier, we could have:

Fn + 1: Fans absolute 100%
Fn + 2: Fans absolute 75%
Fn + 3: Fans absolute 50%
Fn + 4: Fans absolute 25%
Fn + 5: Fans automatic

And the automatic setting just needs to be reworked to have a smooth gradient because at the moment it's just not serviceable.

If I could just see this one thing fixed I'd be very glad.

 

You can do it with Afterburner too. If you manually set the VF curve so that the frequencies at each voltage are increased, but cut it off at the original max boost, it behaves like an undervolt.

 

Yep, that neanderthal fan control needs to get with the times.
Fingers crossed it gets upgraded.

Adding to that ...
I'd like to see GPU and CPU independently customizable. Surely that's not too much to ask for.

 

I highly doubt that Clevo gives a darn about anything its consumers say or want. They deal with the resellers only. Period. It's not like with other companies where there are company reps on some forums to see what their customers are saying or complaining about

 

Yeah that's the impression I get.. we can't let that stop us from trying though

 

That is why @Eurocom Support offered and hopefully Sager and Clevo resellers will be watching this thread and conveying important info to Clevo.