Feedback to Clevo R&D Team: What's missing or broken in your Skylake laptops?

Bigger and better Keyboards, QC, x299. Please and thank you!!

 

Oh yeah I forgot about this. A better keyboard, I like the one on the Alienware 18, even the Alienware 17 R1 is fine.

 

Most has been said, but just to underline it:

1. Proper setting of a manual fan curve. If possible in the BIOS. The ControlCenter is unreliable and tends to forget settings for me. BIOS setting would also work with Linux.

2. ControlCenter should be reworked. All the tray icons are redundant and not needed. All they applications are coupled which should not be. The hotkeys, the illumination, the fan control, and the overclocking should be standalone applications.
The control center tends to forget settings, in particular after reboot and suspend/resumt. That should be improved.

3. There is plenty of space in the hard disk trays of p775* and p870* chassis. Why don't they support thicker hard disks but only 9.5 mm?

4. The keyboard is OK but there are better ones. Why a 15" keyboard in a 17" laptop: there is space left. The keys are OK but not ideal. Illumination works well.

5. More voltage control options in BIOS. And for me BIOS and ControlCenter voltage control seem to override each other.

6. The power supply (330W) is really large and heavy. I agree that the laptop can be large for the colling, but the PSU? A good PSU can have 96% efficiency which makes ca 13W of cooling needed for 330W. Does it need to be that large and heavy? I could even live with a small fan.

7. Better way to reset CMOS (perhaps a button on the mainboard.)

In general, I want to say I really like the clevo laptop (after all the criticism). It is great someone produces configurable and to some degree upgradable laptops.
Several of the points above (especially the fan issue) are really stupid, This could be fixed very easily be the vendor with a BIOS that allows a proper configuration of the embedded controller.
But instead we either have to suffer from noisy fans or we have to bug around with custom bioses / firmwares / hacks for something that should have been right from the beginning.
It is a pitty that such issues, which can be fixed easily in my opinion, deteriorate the overall impression of an otherwise great product.

 

I want to leave my thoughts on 670RS as well. I was really interested in this model but it seems it is impossible to install QHD (2560*1440) on this model was a deal breaker for me. I would very much like a Clevo model in the form factor of 670 Series that support QHD, 120Hz, 5ms panels.

This specific genre is left to Niche laptop models like Aorus & AW which I am not very keen on.

 

Glad to see more people agreeing with me on the Keyboards issue. I can't seem to express how frustrated I am about the keyboards, considering that keyboards are the gateway to these over powered DTR's. and current offerings are just nothing shorter than pathetic( Ill say it LOUDER; PATHETIC), and instead they set you back instead of giving you that advanced leap to complement the inner beauty.

To be specific: Look at MSI GT80 Titan Keyboard, Look at Acer Predator x21 Keyboard, Look at years old Dellienware keyboard. They all slap Clevos garbage keyboards left and right and then some.
First of all 17 inch models deserve bigger keyboards, there is so much potential key real-estate.
Secondly, Not everyone buys these DTRS So they can hook it up to an external keyboard and monitors. Some of us want to have it all in these portable form factors. And Alienware & GT80 titan are great example of this.
Third, Please learn the basic key placement from the king of keyboard makers : Logitech. Delete Key is placed wrongly in P170EM's (I don't know about others) but it is supposed to be on the top end corner of the KEYBOARD.
Final and Fourth biggest issue: Each time having to press Fn Key combination to adjust Screen brightness to Sound volume is counter Intuitive. Considering how often daylight/ night light changes versus how often you use the Function keys. So please consider having dedicated keys for Sound adjustments or brightness of keyboard light/ screen brightness. Heck, even Apple got rid of Function row keys and replaced it with a Touch bar for various different applications. I am not saying that you should remove them completely and try to do what apple is doing. But, keep the function keys and add dedicated sound / brightness adjustment keys. because they are used way more often than function Keys.

P.S. I wanted to add that: We are supposed to be using these tools. and in an effective manner. Not the other way around. So please anyone reading this. Spread the word! and make sure that this gets in and stays in Clevo's ears.

 

I had W110ER - Ivy Bridge, can't say if it was over a lake It had few very good features that could be continued:
- very nice textured plastic surface (doesn't attract finger prints and alike)
- super rigid keyboard that was nice to type (although as it was 11,6" - they keys were slightly to small and miss-hits did happen)

What's missing in non-gaming laptops like N650DU or W670R is lack of optional eGPU connector - Thunderbolt 3 (or custom if Clevo wants to design and make it). Good laptop for development with a nice price, but that lack of "if needed" connector kind of prevents me from clicking the buy button right now

The case doesn't have to black or grey either. Bright silver/gold brushed aluminium looks way better - like for example Toshiba Radius 15" and alike.

 

It's really important to have you guys' feedback on these things. I have had a quick look through the thread and thought it worth pointing out everything that I saw that has already been reported to Clevo and in most cases we have been discussing these things with Clevo for a matter of months, if not years in some cases. Everything being already discussed in depth for some time is included in the quote I listed below (the fan control for the P775 has recently bee improved after we worked with Clevo directly to sort their fan tables out):

 

So.. if it was improved, is there like a BIOS or a vBIOS or a new Clevo Center that improves it?

 

For P650 CLEVO / XMG P50x

1/ The bezel in the P650 Clevo serie is really bad, it keeps getting off, changed it twice but nothing to do it keeps coming off everytime I open/close the lid.

2/ The keyboard sometimes gets damaged by the heat I think. Had to change my keyboard also twice because the W key was, once the laptop heats showing very very high latency (if I press and release the key it keeps pressing it for 1-2 extra seconds). It's no mechanical problem, It was only when the laptop heats, maybe the micro-controller of the keyboard gets damaged by heat in the long term.

3/ Allow more low-level control on the CPU voltage since Clevo CC doesn't like XTU at all. I would like to set the CPU voltage directly in the bios.

4/ Less buggy Clevo Hotkey software

5/ Better fan tables (ffs come on ^^)

6/ Add thunderbolt 3 on ALL P650, not just the 1060 version.

7/ Improve the overall build quality : Clevos are expensive but don't feel like it.

8/ QUALITY CONTROL

9/ Cooling/Heatsink : Improve the stock thermal paste used in the factories, I always repaste my clevos but many don't.
Some heatsink are absolutely messed up, this is not acceptable for gaming/Workstation laptops !

10/ Unexpected fans behaviours : clicky sounds, sometimes the deactivated GPU fans (optimus ON) ramp up for no reason at all.

Thank you . And thanks to all resellers here passing the feedbacks to whom in charge (Clevo Taiwan)

 

That would be a nice feature.

 

Bring QHD, UHD support with next versions of 670 Series. 15" variants 650XX series have that support, why not 670XX, seriously?

 

The EC controls the fans and there's a new version of this which includes our improvements for the P775. Unfortunately I don't have the EC version infront of me but you should be able to get it from your seller or check our driver download page throuhg the website.

 

I'll look for it right now.

I'm running P775DM-3, should it be avaliable for DM3G too?

Also, when using G-sync, there is a... vibration of lightness... almost like a dying light bulb or something. It happens only with G-sync active and only on some color / some software - but this really needs to be fixed out. I originally noticed it out on Atom background - but right now it's visible in Dota2 and any game with a dark background. The light is flashing between a darker and a lighter image, it's extremely disturbing and right now I must turn G-sync completely off - which is sad as I actually liked using Gsync...

 

Sorry if it is slightly off-topic here but I was looking for hours and found a forum topic about this specific issue from about a year ago. So as you say this still occurs in newer models like the P65/7xRS as well? I was encoutering this problem for about two days now on my new P670RS-G ( syntp.sys DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL) and I heard that in this case removing the Clevo CC is probably the only possibility to eliminate this issue. Do you know if it is necessary to do a clean install of windows 10 to get rid of the CCC and all of its possible remainings or would removing the CCC via the control panel plus deleting the hotkey folder work as well? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

We are going seriously OFF TOPIC post after post.

Please keep this in mind :

Most of the things being posted now are more of a wish list.

 

Search regedit for HKKbdFltr. You want the one under "CurrentControlSet". Open the "UpperFilters" string and delete the "HKKbdfltr" line and reboot.

http://i.imgur.com/Z6heoZ8.jpg

 

thank you so much for the help

 

complete overhaul of the system on GPUs heatsink and do not flow the GPU heat to cpu heatsink.

 

On most models, they don't.

On the other hand, most current games don't use both CPU and GPU - so having the heatsink united is better for the cooling. Except for when you play Quantum Break or Mirror's edge Catalyst.

 

heatsink united is one thing but in this case is different for p870dm3. gpu heat flows to cpu side but reverse hardly can happen, its just designed that way..

 

The Pascal P600 (P64XRF, P650RX, P670RX) series has an Alpine Ridge Thunderbolt 3 capable controller, yet Clevo didn't put in a run from the DisplayPort/HDMI to it.

This means, it's reduced to acting as a dumb USB3.1 controller instead of a full fledged Thunderbolt3 chipset.

To make things even more annoying, the PCIE lanes are a pre-requisite of the chip integration so eGPU (and any other PCIE lane dependant boxes like RAID enclosures and such) could theoretically work even in the dumb state. But since it lacks the DP/HDMI inputs it isn't Thunderbolt certified and so the Thunderbolt functionality is disabled, even for devices which only require the PCIE lane functionality (in reality you can have both DP1.4 AND 4x PCIE lanes running simultaneously in the TB3 spec anyway).

I understand there are some technical issues to work around.
ie muxing all ports would require a more I/O on the MUX chip (and thus complexity). However, I'd GLADY drop the 2nd mini-DP for 1 fully functioning TB3 port. Just have 1 HDMI, 1 full size DisplayPort on the left, then 1x Thunderbolt3 Type-C and 1x USB3.1 only Type-C on the right.

They were so close to a near perfect laptop and went full retard on the execution.

 

I did try to check your downloads section but only found BIOS 1.05.02 and no EC

 

It's Clevo, they like doing that.. Sometimes it looks like idiots are designing their laptops...

 

Thunderbolt imlementstions need Licensing from Intel.
They probably cheaped out and didn't get a license for full TB3. And because of legal obligations, couldnt release the system with full functionality.

 

Thunderbolt3 requires certification, not licensing. Small, but distinct enough difference.

In order to be certified it requires all functionality present. In the case of the P600 series, that's the DP/HDMI sink that was physically left out. The DP/HDMI traces are just not there. That's a conscious decision on Clevo's part as it costs nothing to do all the traces but not get certification.

 

Nope. From what i have heard Intel plays a pretty big role.in what devices get Thunderbolt 3. And it's not just about certification. Even though that is the only info available online.

 

Actually it's not a cost issue or a professionalism issue, there is always a huge backlog of certifications that Intel need to go thorugh and they decide what they certify and in what order. In previous generations at launch, the full TB3 functionality is there from the start but it is one thing to have this functionality and a different thing to be able to promote and advertise full functionality without the certification from Intel.

 

Dear All. We need one or two volunteers here to compile a list of key improvements by each model so we can pass to Clevo R&D Team. Please email them to [email protected] Attn: R&D Feedback

 

I touched briefly on this in a previous post:

But I will expand a little further:

1/ daily communication with Clevo means that we are passing continuous feedback to them from our own internal R&D team. We receive new models extremely early and pass as much feedback to Clevo as we can. How this feedback is acted on is out of our hands, we are after all one company and one of Clevo's customers. Actually a lot of our testing does affect the finished products that are released, but by no means everything


2/ We also keep a very close eye on nbr and other forums such as techinferno, notebookchat and so on. Any user feedback and suggestions is always taken on board and problems that people report are either discussed as new projects or integrated into work we are already doing. Again, having lists of problems or future features/fixes is a great thing to have - they do a great job of bring matters to light but mainly reaffirm feedback that has already been given to Clevo.

I for one definitely welcome other companies getting involved and passing feedback to Clevo. Though this thread doesn't contain anything that we (and possibly other companies) haven't already discussed and brought to the attention of them, having more companies getting involved and actually talking to Clevo about what their customers want would widen the influence pool.

 

The least one more Company passing more info onto clevo would do is, put more pressure on them or at least show them how serious these issues are.

 

Not sure if my opinion is relevant, but more lower end and smaller models with Thunderbolt 3 with some confirmation as to whether or not detachable graphics for support for external GPU solutions will be supported. I really want to buy a Clevo with a GTX 1060/ something lower with a Thunderbolt 3 port, but the only low end thing is the N650DU which isn't even available in North America and has a Type C, not TB3 port.

 

Great thread, thanks!

CCC is completely opaque. Where do I file bug reports to? What is the change log between versions? I would suggest at least providing a means of submitting a bug report, as well as requesting features and tracking changes, that is visible externally. Ideally I would suggest open sourcing the whole thing, but I realize that may not be possible.

I definitely agree with prior suggestions: CCC needs to be broken down into components so you don't end up installing things you don't want (XTU). The tray icons are annoying and should at least be optional.

I personally think that CCC should not try to take over OC functionality but should leave that up to other tools (make it an optional install).

Fan control is a real problem and needs to be improved.
My current fan profile from the EC without CCC installed just blasts the fans on full when I go over some temperature. Making this a bit more refined would be a big help. I'm playing with the custom settings of CCC but that is quite limited.

 

We are passing your feedback to R&D so they are aware about the issues and add them to their product improvement schedule. Please provide your ideas what specific features are you looking for in new models - maybe we should start new tread?

 

@Eurocom Support

Add this to my list:

Heatsink Quality Control
Both my DM1 and DM3 came with shoddy Heatsinks that made terrible contact.
Each time it was required I'd sent back the machine under warranty and go without it to have it fixed - which isn't a good solution or not an option for some.
I won't make this a personal gripe but having better quality control on such a vital part is essential. If it can't be solved at the factory Clevo should allow for end user installation on the RMA part rather than having to send the whole machine back or buy new heatsinks hoping they'll work better than the last. Not good enough.

 

@Eurocom Support

Fans spin up even when browsing Internet's with CCC installed, but only on CPU.

The GPU fan I'd okay, while the CPU fan profile Seems somewhat broken

 

I know my notebook isn't a Skylake one, but I can offer some feedback about the small form factor, based on gripes about the P640RE and the W230SS, where some of the concerns of the latter were still not particularly addressed in the former:

• The P640RE doesn't have G-Sync, but has a G-Sync-capable GPU, the GTX 970M. Do screen manufacturers completely discount the 13-14" market when it comes to G-Sync? PLEASE GIVE US G-SYNC ON SMALL NOTEBOOKS, WHICH MEANS GET RID OF OPTIMUS ON SMALLER NOTEBOOKS. Or give us a mux option like the P650 series, to choose between Optimus/dGPU only.
• The P640RE has a crap battery, which lasts for between 2.5 - 4 hours when new. The point of a small notebook is to make it more portable, so that it can be used when out and about, not to be tied to a wall socket all the time.
• The P640RE has space for one 2.5" drive, and one free M.2 slot for storage, the other being used for the WiFi module. Maybe add another M.2 slot?
• Better heatsinks (this from the W230SS, where the heatsink assembly really is bottom-barrel).

Also, we're not sure what Clevo is up to now on the small end (maybe @Meaker@Sager, @Donald@HIDevolution and a few others can give us some insight, without breaking their NDA), but I really hope that Clevo puts a GTX 1060 and a 6820HK in a 13-14" machine, similar to what Alienware has done, and sell it for $300 cheaper than Alienware. Not to mention giving us the option of choosing between CPUs, RAM, and display, instead of forcing us to settle for one resolution.

 

The smaller machines are usually optimus only due to price and board real-estate being more sensitive compared to larger models.
With the space you have to make a compromise somewhere, price, battery life or weight.
Board space issues along with chassis heat output compared to demand for more with up to 2TB drives available.
Again, price/weight concerns

 

There is updated version of P640 coming with Kaby Lake and Pascal GPU. There are no GSync 14" panels available.

 

Really? Does that mean G-sync (and the hardware considerations that come with it) actually require more board area than non-G-sync? Wow, I didn't know that. I assumed that it was simply a matter of directly outputting the dGPU framebuffer to the display and the display itself having the G-sync capability.

Understandable, and hence I think most here who want a performance small form factor machine are mainly willing to forego the price and possibly some weight to put in something that really packs a punch but doesn't melt the whole package.

Great to hear that, thanks

That's a pity. Maybe this can be forwarded to Clevo and then to panel manufacturers? Because G-Sync really is a blessing, no reason to exclude small laptops from having this wonderful thing, if it can be included. Power to the people!

 

G-Sync adds extra cost to laptops that most consumers are not willing to pay so most of LCD vendors are not interested to pay Nvidia for G Sync licensing and instead developing 120Hz panels

 

G-sync requires that direct connection, optimus requires the panel to be connected to the IGP. So you have to have a MUX and route both the dGPU and IGP to it.

 

In order to have G-sync working you need the following:
1/ GSYNC enabled GPU (non g-sync and G-Sync GPU implementation are different)
2/ G-Sync approved LCD panel
3/ G-Sync SBIOS
G-Sync works only with dGPU and it doesn't work with iGPU.

 

@Meaker@Sager @Eurocom Support does that mean in a model without Gsync i wont be able to enable it in the future, by lets say changing the panel? ((im talking about the np8151/p650rp6 without G-S) and what about connecting an external Gsync certified display, gsync will be disabled still?

 

External displays will always work. Swapping the panel will not work without swapping the GPU to one with licensing (and maybe the SBIOS too).

 

The GPU needs to be licensed from the factory or internal G-sync is never possible.

 

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,0000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
I have to use Linux daily and I cant even tell you how frustrating it is to have to deal with the fans going 100% when compiling. It wont save my fan profile outside of windows and its maddening. Enough for me to not consider Clevo again unless they fix this.

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@Eurocom Support @EurocomTechspert @Prostar Computer @SagerPR @Meaker@Sager @mythlogic @John@OBSIDIAN-PC @Larry@LPC-Digital @pat@XOTICPC @Tanner@XoticPC @clevo-extreme @tanzmeister @XMG @Prema

 

Doesn't compiling actually use a lot of resources and heat up the CPU?

I'm asking because I'm actually compiling and with the fans on Auto, they won't spun as much, but at the same time I fear overheating when compiling software..

 

Agreed. Would also be nice to have some software specifically designed for their systems to handle fan control and thermals.

 

Faster response time for keyboard.

I really feel the difference when using a 1000Hz polling rate keyboard vs an 125Hz one and really wish it increased if it's possible via a FW.

 

Clevo should fix random freezing after some time (i have situation that i'm getting freeze after for example 30min youtube video playback) I'm using the newest BIOS, EC and drivers P751DM2. I know that other users have this problem too.