Feedback to Clevo R&D Team: What's missing or broken in your Skylake laptops?

The heatpipes on the DM3 act as guides for the vapor chamber, they are not really the load bearing parts.

 

The control center icon in the tray should be blue when using the Intel GPU and green for Nvidia.

 

There is an Nvidia activity icon you can turn on from the drivers.

 

Yes, I have. That's when running in optimus. I meant the icon that shows the state of the mux.

 

Right click the desktop and see if you get an Intel shortcut, it should disappear in dedicated mode.

 

I do have the icons. I just don't like the colors. Now it's orange for discrete and green for optimus. But I have hardcoded in my mind that blue=Intel, red=Amd, green=Nvidia, so I get confused by the green icon meaning intel. I get that they were probably going after orange=power, green=lightness.

 

Red in a small LED for me means 'there is a problem'. That would probably freak me out a little if I had a hypothetical Ryzen laptop and there was a little glowing red indicator light, even if I knew why.

 

Unsure if this has been mentioned before, but I believe I've found a bug with BIOS version 1.05.05 for the Clevo P670HP6 (MetaBox P670HP). Whilst running on battery, if "Load Defaults" is selected, followed by "Save and Reset", the laptop won't power itself on again. However, this doesn't occur with the power adapter plugged in.

 

BIOS resets never automatically power on when on battery, this intended behavior.

 

Right, it's the same when pulling the CMOS battery to reset, or after flashing.

 

It helps reduce accidental power in your bag which obviously can cause issues.

 

Currently using Clevo P870km1-G

1. Gotta work on that temperature. My gtx 1080's and i7-7700k get close to 90 ~ 95c which is crazy, considering I spent $5000 on this laptop.
2. We need keyboard for 17 inch laptop. Using keyboard of 15 inch is wasting space in my opinion.

 

This probably won't make me popular with anyone but..

It might be worth bumping up the price and going for a slightly larger chassis yes for the heatsink (my personal opinion here)

For the specs and base costs for these parts the price you are paying is the lowest around.

 

I agree with all that - you're still popular with me.

 

As long you don't pay for jingeling - bling bling ****y, I haven't problem with this. But see you around... People pay for design!!! Not the pure performance. Shall we pay double?... Aka more for next design and (performance)?

 

I'd say an alternative bottom with thicker heatsinks and fans for the 1080 sli model, existing 1070 heatsinks are fine and a mini vapor chamber for the 1080 single.

 

I'd be fine with this.

 

I've already spent more than $5000 to the laptop. I think I can probably spend extra for better cooling and keyboard

 

A main issue which I wish for Clevo to fix or not do at all is to NOT put an HK(unlocked) CPU e.g core i7 6820HK, 7820HK in a P6 series BGA motherboard that cant even support a +200mhz CPU OC once a CPU+GPU workload comes on.

It practically makes the unlocked CPU useless as once overclocked past 3.3ghz for the 6820HK it throttles back the frequencies due to 'EDP Other' according to Throttlestop or Current limit throttling according to Intel XTU once a CPU+GPU workload comes on which makes the premium people pay to have this unlocked CPU useless as it doesn't overclock or provide any real benefits.

It's almost a scam to me tbh as the premium you pay isn't justified but for other manufacturers such as MSI and Asus it seems it is as they don't have this problem. So please take off the HK models from the P650's and P670's as its useless and will only lead to more returns as I plan on returning mine soon and so as couple other members. Thank you.

This statement by @Falkentyne say it all(Has a similar issue but not quite the same):

Other Affected members: @Legion343 (will try post some more others as there are but can't remember their names).

Affected Models: Clevo P650RS-G and P670RS-G(Not sure about the RP6-G models)

Affected Laptop Specs(Returning Soon): Intel Core i7 6820HK, GTX 1070, 16gb 2400 DDR4 RAM, 128gb + 256 gb SSD and 1TB SSHD

Link to thread about issue with proof: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ue-intel-core-i7-6820hk.806323/#post-10553028

Link to video showing issue:

If anyone has any suggestions let me know ASAP as the laptop will be returned soon. Thanks.

 

Hey, so sorry to hear of your disappointment. I would never wish those problems for anyone. You have my sincerest heartfelt condolences. The solution is fairly straightforward. You have to decide if form factor or results are the most important objective. What you and countless others have experienced is predictable.

People that want good performance, acceptable cooling and nice overclocking, should never, ever, buy a small BGA turdbook under any circumstances. Those products are incapable of achieving incredible results. Those products are only suitable where small form factor is more important than everything else, and you have to adjust your expectations to accommodate that. Compromise is required. None of them are worth a damn if performance and cooling are super important, and it doesn't matter what brand. Thin and light will always be a problem regardless of whether it is BGA or not. There is simply not enough room for robust fans and capable heat sinks if the focus of product development is to be thin and light. It's going to be a fail where performance, overclocking capacity and thermals are concerned every time and that is unavoidable. You're just kidding yourself, or people are lying to you, if you believe MSI and ASUS do not have the same issues. They most certainly do. This not a brand problem. It boils down to simple kindergartner logic. You cannot put 10 pounds of candy into a 3 pound bag no matter how hard you try. Whether or not the model in question is on the worse end of the spectrum is somewhat irrelevant. Thermal throttling is thermal throttling and crippled performance is crippled performance any way you want to slice it.

The other thing to consider is price. There is still some element of truth to the idea of getting what you pay for. A cheaper notebook is going to look, smell and behave like a cheaper notebook in most cases. But beware, this is not true on the "high end" of the thin and light turdbook scale though. Some of the most expensive thin and light models are the worst thermal abortions, so be careful applying that to thin and light models, because it may lead you astray. Brand popularity is not a good indicator of quality or results at the high end of the cost spectrum for thin and light notebooks.

You have to be careful what you buy no matter what niche you fit into. In this example of extreme performance options, the option that costs between $800 and $1000 less absolutely annihilates the more expensive piece of trash. Thus, my warning against brand popularity. You'll get screwed if you go with the most popular brand choice almost every time.

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/3dm11/12274145/3dm11/11988375#

 

Definitely agree, rather have high end properly cooled components, than having to do months of Cooling RnD for Clevo.
Unfortunately ,contrary to popular belief, the price doesn't need to always go up.

 

Yh I understand your point but even then I never knew about the BGA nonsense and all I thought was the 7820HK or 6820HK with a moderate 3.8ghz~4.0ghz overclock would be okay to suite my needs and didn't think I would need a full fat desktop CPU to do that. And the truth is I really don't.

Another thing is the brand loyalty. I am not loyal to any brand and only go with whatever brand offers the best perf/per sterling(or dollars). At the time the Clevo's looked alright when it came to that. The Asus/MSI don't exhibit the same behaviour as the Clevo as I have seen online reviews/videos and have had someone who owns one testify that they don't so I think this one is a downfall of Clevo, their other products are good such as the P751DM2 but this was just a FAIL in my opinion. They should have stock with the HQ models for this notebook I would have no problem if they did that because at list I would know what am getting. If it was the other way around I would be hamming Asus/MSI about the same issue but unfortunately its not. Thanks.

 

You are misleading the others here. Your P650 machine is perfectly capable of handling an overclock on the 6820HK, it's just that you guys ( specifically the P65XR S) haven't got Prema Mod yet, so you're complaining that your CPU is being throttled. It isn't a thermal throttle, it isn't a current limit throttle, it isn't even a power limit throttle. In the very thread that you linked, the last reply says:

The throttling is not due to the P650 series being thermally incapable of handling a decent overclock on the 6820HK. The notebook is perfectly capable of handling a 4.2–4.3 GHz overclock with configured voltages. The GPU can be overclocked together as well, to boot, too.

Please don't blame a firmware issue on hardware incapability ( @Mr. Fox too: can you imagine your 16L13 or P870KM1 without Prema Mod? Yeah... That's what's going on with this guy's notebook, not BGA or anything).

If you want to overclock your CPU, return your P650RS for a Kaby Lake P650HS, or bug @Prema for a BIOS and EC mod (who's admittedly quite busy with his several other commitments now).

The P650 series sells so well because it is literally the best notebook in that form factor, at an exceptionally reasonable price. There is next to nothing wrong with it (if you can disregard the fact that it has BGA components, which is admittedly inadmissible for some), except the fact that the HS/RS series has got an extra heatpipe from the CPU to the GPU, causing unnecessary cross-transfer of heat, and the fact that, well, the RS hasn't got Prema Mod yet.

I suggest you keep your machine, @Timbabs123.

 

Agreed.

Laptops should be thick enough to have a decent cooling solution and should be designed around the CPU GPU power requirements. Thin laptops should sacrifice performance for the design.

ALL BRANDS HAVE FEW BAD APPLES. Its tough luck unfortunately. But a company with friendly customer service, technical know-how and good warranty does help here.

Typically forums will have more coverage from users having problems than users who dont. So, choosing good design considerations over sleekness and irrespective of brand image can take your positive laptop gaming experience a long way. Of course, you have to read reviews before making a decision.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

 

Wow okay nice to see another opinion/input

I understand your point about it maybe being a firmware problem. But then why have that option enabled on an HK system which you know customers would want to be overclocking on. It leaves a bad taste in the customers mouth and doesn't help the brand.

And yh you are right this is one of the best notebooks in this form factor which is why I pulled the trigger but seeing the throttling issue especially after waiting for it in the post for long really dampens someones opinion and kinda gets you second guessing maybe the extra money paid just to get the unlocked CPU wasn't worth it.

And about the mods, a customer shouldn't have to search the highs and lows of the internet and use mods just to get even a decent +300mhz overclock especially when you consider the premium being paid over the HQ's and especially when you can see other manufacturer models doing much more without breaking a sweat. Regardless I will try and reach out to Prema and what not to find a solution. And I know the CPU is capable of it because on CPU only workloads it does fine but once the GPU is loaded frequency's just tank.

And with keeping it not really sure if that can be possible. If I manage to find a solution before I decide to return or before my return period expires(think I got 2 weeks left) I will keep it because like I said that is the major fault in the machine that makes me want to return it aside from minor quirks here and there but that's normal with computers anyway.

Also in regards with reviews, I did my research and read reviews but no one mentioned this issue sadly.

 

@Timbabs123 It's the flippin' Clevo cancer stock firmware, bro. I feel for you, I really do. I would return it for another model that has Prema or Svet modded BIOS support. Maybe a Clevo P750DM3 or MSI 16L13 from Eurocom or EVOC?

 

This approach has some wisdom to it, but it can also be very hazardous. The best place to look for excellent information is places like this community because here is where you will see the best examples of the issues you are likely to encounter with all of their naughtiest and uncensored spread-eagle glory coming to light. No candy-coated presentations. While they are generally good for the reveal of aesthetics and disclosure of specs, a heavy reliance on professional reviews is not very smart, and it's unfortunate that most people trying sincerely to do their due diligence don't know what a treacherous minefield that can be.

Another danger can be not identifying the difference between a press release filled with a manufacturer's unproven claims and baseless hype and a legitimate review. The way some press releases are presented (including where they are presented) can make it difficult to know if what you are reading is reliable or just a load of crap.

The technical ignorance of professional reviewers frequently makes superior machines seem horrible and horrible machines seem much better than they actually are. The out-of-box experience with laptops is seldom a good representation of what a machine is capable of (or incapable of, as the case might be,) when handled by an experienced power user / overclocker / enthusiast.

The best you can hope for from professional reviews is some examples of click-and-run benchmarks with nothing optimized, some great pictures, regurgitated marketing fluff, a robotic recitation of specs, and the anecdotal observations of the reviewer. If they got a lemon it could look worse than it is and if they got a cherry-picked sample it might not be an accurate representation of what one can expect when they open their own box.

Some of the most capable laptops money can buy run like a piece of junk as shipped from the manufacturer. It was even like this back in Alienware's glory days. The best products they ever made often ran like junk at the time of unboxing. Same is true of Clevo products today. Most aspiring your enthusiasts don't understand that if they want something amazing they should be shopping for the best foundation for something that can be transformed into something great with a little TLC and elbow grease on their part.

 

To play devil's advocate, even on NBR, it would've been very difficult to find any posts mentioning the firmware throttling issue in those models' owner's lounge threads. Buyers of BGA models tend to lean more toward the casual user end of the spectrum than the enthusiast/power user side, so the vast majority of them aren't even aware of the problem's existence because they don't game with an OSD on to monitor their CPU frequency while playing, and similar such practices that most of us take for granted.

 

Yes, that is very accurate. Great point. Thank you. The average buyer's experience can sometimes be every bit as worthless as an average review. Like a dog chasing a car, they often don't know what to do with it once they "catch it" LOL.

 

Yh you are kinda correct in that regard they probably don't do that sort of testing but am an enthusiast and as such I do(also I specifically chose the GTX 1070 and HK cpu bcos I have a 1440p monitor so performance had to be optimal. Another thing is I really never knew how bad BGA's are when it came to things like this. I just assumed the HK certification should at least carry some weight and get me a decent OC(was hoping for at the least 3.6ghz)

Well if I cant get to a resolution I may just have to return this and order a p751-dm2.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

The way I look at it, if more users were aware that they aren't getting the performance they paid for, instead of living in a blissfully ignorant state of throttle, they'd collectively raise a big ruckus, which would force these companies to change and improve instead of pushing "castrated filth" (in the colorful words of Mr. Fox ) by default.

 

+rep

 

This is also very accurate. Great hardware is utter rubbish with trash firmware. Stock firmware always sucks on laptops. If I could not have @Prema BIOS I would not want my P870DM3 any more. In fact, the ONLY reason I own it, and the ONLY reason I even entertained the idea of buying it in the first place is the @Prema BIOS. I knew what I was going to get was going to be superior with @Prema's name associated with it. And without that it is not capable of meeting my expectations. The same was true of my P870DM-G, P750ZM and P570WM. A Clevo without a PremaMod is junk.

 

Your resolution is to... wait for @Prema Mod. It'll come, you've paid extra for it to HIDEvolution. Unless you can stomach paying a fair bit extra, and a lot more weight for a 15" notebook that

a) Cannot be upgraded to Coffee Lake and beyond

b) Can take a GTX 1070, maximum

c) Has a worse cooling solution than the MSI 16L13

d) Is a full kilogram heavier than your P650RS, with not much more graphics horsepower.

Seriously, just wait. If you cannot wait, I'm sure your reseller (is it @Donald@HIDevolution?) would be happy to accept your notebook back, and you can get a P650HS with the 7820HK, and happily overclock the CPU because Prema Mod is already available for that.

There are quite a few reasons why OEMs choose to neuter their notebook BIOSes—some trigger-happy person might end up bricking his machine for no good reason, and it's a cost to the manufacturer when he/she sends it in for an RMA. Imagine thousands of people doing that. What a waste of money. From their (profit-oriented) part, it makes complete sense to err on the safer side.

Thankfully for the small subset of tweakers who know what they're doing, we have geniuses like @j95, @Prema, @Khenglish, @iunlock and @t456 who know the tools of the trade and help us all maximise the performance of our machines for little to no cost at all, and who risk bricking their own machines to help the wider community.

And yet we have scumbags who leak out their hard-earned work and ruin it all for the rest of us.

 

Oh right hmm I see where your coming from.

Right now am starting to look at the P650HS-G and if a premamod is actually out for that I don't mind returning this and getting that instead.

Can anyone confirm if a premamod is available for the P650HS-G?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

@Donald@HIDevolution, @Eurocom Support, @John@OBSIDIAN-PC, can you confirm?

 

It is in final BETA now, and should be released very shortly...hopefully within a few days.

 

While I agree on the CPU, this isn't the best comparison if you want to highlight price. With the ASUS model you're paying for the larger panel (which is more expensive partly because of the relatively lower produced numbers of 18" displays), a hard case that's shipped with the system, and that enormous lump of liquid cooling module that attaches to the back. A better comparison might be between a similarly equipped G701 and P775 models, you can get the exact same config with different CPUs and no other stuff in the box.

 

Yeah, I suppose that extra stuff is worth a little bit of the difference. On performance/results alone it is a fail. Even when connected to the silly colostomy bag that anchors it to a desk it can't keep up with a real machine. The difference between the 17 and 18 inch screens is negligible. I used to think an awful lot about how great the Alienware 18 and M18x screens where (especially the gorgeous edge-to-edge display on the older models) but when I started using a 17 inch Clevo beast sitting next to the 18 inch Alienware, I really didn't see an appreciable difference in them. Unless I was really paying extra close attention and looking for it, the difference in size was almost unrecognizable.

 

One of these days I'm going to photoshop a computer that's literally the same as your colorful hardware descriptions, if I can stomach doing so.

And I get where you're coming from with the size difference. A user once told me that the only difference he really saw between the 17" and 18" computers is that you pay more for the 18" and there are a lot less backpacks they will fit in.

 

Amen to that!

 

Oh nice so you reckon its a good bet for me to return this(P650RS-G) and get the HS-G and get prema mod when it comes out?

Though another question I have is will prema release a mod for the P650RS-G cos then I may not have to return this if the issue is fixed in the mod.

 

Is your vendor a Prema Partner? If not, even when it does come out, you still won't have access to it.

 

Nope its not(Its from PC Specialist). Though I wouldn't mind returning it and ordering from a Prema Partner. Though I have to say generally speaking this prema partner thing is a bit bogus, I would rather just get it directly from Prema even if it means paying for it or something.

 

You know, @Prema and @Donald@HIDevolution... I agree with him on this.

 

Not gonna happen brah

 

Calling something so awesome bogus is a great way to never get it. Making insulting comments based on a lack of understanding or a sense of entitlement can bite you in the butt. The @Prema Partner program works exactly as intended and it's excellent.

 

He wasn't being insulting, he merely didn't see the point of exclusively limiting the availability of a BIOS—essentially a software product—to only certain vendors.

Furthermore... 'Exactly as intended'? Two or three years ago there was no such thing as 'Prema Partner'—or at least, there was, but the BIOS was not limited to such vendors! Prema Mod for my W230SS went public immediately after Prema was done with it. Likewise for the P650SE and P640RE Prema Mods. There was no 'limited availability' period back then. Either the vendor offered Prema Mod with warranty support, or they didn't. That was all the 'Prema Partner' seal did. Either way, the BIOS could be downloaded (for free) at premamod.com, at the user's will.

This new system is a fairly recent development because of one (or a few) selfish souls who decided to release a beta version early and brand it as their own effort despite having sworn not to, effectively an NDA.

He is correctly questioning this system—why do we need to buy from specific retailers just for the BIOS? If Prema believes that the way to combat future leaks is to ask for payment, and he believes his efforts in developing the Mod warrant payment, then ask for it, and we will pay! I certainly will. No need to restrict buyers to half a dozen resellers around the world.

I've already got a Clevo reseller where I live. If I want Prema Mod, I'll have to have a notebook shipped all the way from the US or Canada, where HIDEvolution and Eurocom are based, to where I live, and pay import taxes and GST. Warranty claims will become a nightmare. Notwithstanding this, if I see a decent bargain at a reseller, I'll have to forgo it to buy exclusively at Prema Partner resellers. It really is a pain.

It's as though HBO said they'd delay the airing of episodes 5 and 6 of Series 7 of Game of Thrones because those two episodes were leaked a couple of days early. People would've rioted.

 

So, an unscrupulous person (how can @Prema discern those who are, and are not) buys the BIOS from him, with the undisclosed intent to resell it as their own...this is what happened multiple times. That is why Eurocom is no longer a Prema Partner, and that is why Prema now only deals with Partners who have demonstrated their trustworthiness over the years, and no longer provides his BIOS, at any price, to individuals.

Prema is an individual, flesh and blood, not a big corporation, so not only is your comparison to HBO inapplicable, please understand that he can do what he wishes with his work.

 

Perhaps the comparison to HBO was inadmissible, yes. But it is an exaggeration of a point—a previously free-to-use product has been shuttered up behind exclusive reseller deals. If not for the fact that Prema Mod used to be freely available, I wouldn't be here talking to you about it.

Certainly, he is free to do what he wants with his mod, but it is unfortunate that the large majority of Clevo users have no idea that the Mod exists at all because they generally chase lower prices above all, and places with the best prices typically don't offer Prema Mod. For 90% of people outside America and Spain, buying from either HIDEvolution or OBSIDIAN-PC is a waste. There isn't a single Prema Partner in south-east Asia, for example. Aftershock PC has grown exponentially since 2014 when I first bought my W230SS, and they still don't offer Prema Mod.

I haven't got the technical expertise to detail this, but perhaps Prema Mod could have some sort of hardware activation system, and he could sell it standalone. I'm sure he has thought of this. He's got the know-how, and I think he could do it.

If doesn't amount to much, I'll probably buy a notebook from HIDEvolution, just for the mod, but not everyone else will.