New 120hz Laptops Displays = Gorgeous!

For internal g-sync we need g-sync GPUs.
For external it doesn't matter.

 

Well that solves the issue then.

Virtually all of the Nvidia GPUs on the market are G-Sync capable, it's then a question of whether the screens equipped carry the feature for the whole process to work.

 

Having a gsync display isn't important to me. Its a welcome addition but so massively over-hyped. Having my last system with it I wasn't impressed the least bit.
I felt the picture looked smoother but but didn't play as smooth than old school vsync off.

What is important to me is having the compatibility for possible resale of the MXM module to other people who have internal gsync displays.

 

For example, Phoenix cancelled his ordered P870DM3 w/ 2x 1080 SLI + 120 screen, because that screen had no G-sync yet, and accordingly the notebook came without G-sync enabled GPUs he asked whether he can simply upgrade the screen when there's a 120hz G sync one available, and the reseller told him they would have to swap the GPUs as well, which they are naturally not excited about and most likely unwilling. I think it's crazy that Clevo even produces 1080's that are not G-sync enabled...

 

Paying Nvidia (and charging the customer for) a feature that the machine does not support in the stock configuration typically does not go down well

 

This is true. It's Nvidia's wrong doing. It costs them next to nothing to simply make them all gsync compatible. Absolute tight a$$es

 

Exactly, innovation like G-sync should be a benefit of buying Nvidia GPU's, not a cash center unto itself.

G-sync is the kind of innovation advancement that becomes part of an open standard, not another point of contentious frustration.

Nvidia seems good at that, contentious frustration, included with every purchase.

 

Any chance they get to screw the customer they choose to do so. Every time. I sware they do it because they enjoy the sick sadistic pleasure it derives rather than the monetary gain.

 

They killed internal 3D the same way. Clevo also stopped paying them for Optimus and went with Microsoft instead (MS Hybrid). Even SLI ain't free...cough...MSI...cough...no connector...
This whole license thing is just holding innovation and progress hostage...

 

Aside from the mutual back-slapping over the Nvidia and G-Sync proprietary issue, I'm still in the dark over this GPU, screen and feature business.

Since the user in question has thousands of posts, a link to the one confirming there is an actual distinction between GPUs with the G-Sync feature and GPUs with the feature deliberately disabled would be most helpful. Bar Phoenix and his cheerleader, the rest of the information here seems to indicate that it's a screen issue rather than a GPU one.

 

You seem to be paying attention, but you aren't are you?

Otherwise you would know the answer already. It's been said a dozen times, and instead of focusing in on the information you say you need, you fixate on the things you feel ostrasized from instead.

Do you want to be a Phoenix cheerleader?

Ya gotta really want it, ya know?

Mr. Fox has been working at it for years, and only recently has it happened.

The dream of a lifetime.

Phoenix named his laptop the name Mr. Fox thought up for him, Typhon.

It's a beautiful thing, really...

You did know that right?, the new name of Phoenix's laptop is Typhon, it's the name you need to remember, because it's gonna haunt you till the day you...

...get a 120hz G-sync 1080p screen.

It's a certification issue, and until a screen gets approved for G-sync-ness, and gets added to the Nvidia database, it can't pair with a G-sync GPU for a successful G-sync experience.

Sad, so sad, no G-sync 120hz 1080p display for you...not yet anyway, Typhon.

Is that why you are grumpy??

'Cause you seem really grumpy.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...oenix-2-is-here.794530/page-197#post-10318881

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...oenix-2-is-here.794530/page-198#post-10318907

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...oenix-2-is-here.794530/page-147#post-10318905

G-sync FAQ - a bit dated, but valid
http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/faq

" G-SYNC Notebook FAQ

Q: What are the minimum system requirements for notebook G-SYNC?
A: Notebooks must be designed to support G-SYNC. This includes a G-SYNC approved panel and the following requirements:

• GPU: GeForce GTX 980, 980M, 970M or 965M (SLI configurations are supported)
• O/S: Windows 7, 8, 8.1 and 10
• Driver: R352.06 and above"

 

It's a GPU feature and a screen feature.

Strictly talking about the laptop's internal display -
For example using a 1080:

There is a Pascal 1080 Gsync and also a Pascal 1080 non Gsync.

If you have 1080 non Gsync it can never be paired to work with a Gsync monitor.
If you ever want to upgrade your monitor to Gsync = tough
If you want to sell a non-Gsync card to another user with a Gsync monitor = tough

If you have a Pascal Gsync card, that will work on non Gsync and Gsync monitors.



Not sure who that Cheerleader comment is directed at..regardless I'm not picking up what you're putting down

 

Finally, a straight answer unlike the waste of space immediately above it. I think it made the same point, but no one likes reading useless personal attacks preceding useful information.
Some users said there was no distinction between the Pascal GPUs while others said there was. Wikipedia doesn't suggest there's a distinction (but no one trusts it much anyway on matters like these) but it seems the split between the feature and featureless GPUs depends heavily on the user's screen choice.

If the user picked a G-Sync compatible internal display, then chances are high/it's almost guaranteed the user will get the feature because both GPU and screen will be compatible.

If the user picked a non G-Sync compatible internal display (like the 4k options for the DM2 and DM3) then the user MIGHT get a G-Sync GPU (most likely not). In this case any future replacements of the screen to a G-Sync capable one won't make any difference because the GPU didn't have the feature to begin with in the first place.

So since I'm such an inattentive reader, does the above make sense to the experts in the know? Or have I missed something out? All I remember from the last two pages was "Phoenix did this, Phoenix did that" when all I was interested in was how the whole procedure really worked since so many resellers claim the GPU to have the capability regardless of the screens selected by prospective buyers.

 

In all modesty, I posted the straightforward answer already last page, @Harleyquin07 as in the notebook comes with a gpu that can't do G Sync if the notebook screen doesn't have the feature.

 

Indeed you did, but the posts following up from yours muddied the waters.
It no longer matters. It appears my understanding of the situation is in line with everyone else. When I make my order for the laptop I will be sure to ask if my GPU will have the feature since I'm going for the 4k screen which isn't G-Sync compatible.

 

If you're going for a 4k screen that isn't G-Sync compatible the GPU inherently won't be either.

 

The reason I cancelled my order was, I initially thought if it's just a matter of time till the 120hz / 5ms getts certification from GSYNC, then a simple driver update in the future would enable GSYNC BUT what I learned later that the system I am buying and all current P870DM2/3 systems have a non GSYNC GPU and thus, one would hace to also change the GPU to a GSYNC one when the panel does get certified. So I canceled my order to get the GSYNC GPU/screen working from the get go

 

Curious to know if perhaps the question about using external G-Sync LCD monitors which caused the confusion. For those who do not care about G-Sync on the internal LCD panel of the laptop, there's no problem, as these new DM2s are capable of doing G-Sync to an external G-Sync LCD monitor.

It is when you want to use G-Sync of the laptop's built in or internal LCD when you need to have both G-Sync type components for GPU and LCD panel.

 

Looks like asking for a G-Sync enabled GPU with a 4k screen right now isn't going to be necessary then.

External or not, if the order comes in for a DM2 or DM3 right now with no G-Sync 4k monitor option on the table, then the GPU will not have G-Sync capability and hooking it up to an external monitor appears to make no difference.

A pity as I've never seen the technology in action and was curious to see it for myself, but I won't be able to wait and there's a backlog of parts for the DM3 as it is.

 

I think I see your confusion, as this statement I bolded is incorrect.

A DM2 or a DM3, even one purchased a few weeks ago, is able to use G-Sync with a G-Sync capable external LCD monitor. The 'G-Sync' capabilities of the laptop's GPU has no bearing when connecting to an external G-Sync monitor. It is only when you want to use G-Sync on the internal LCD panel is when you need a G-Sync GPU/LCD combo.

Re-read these posts regarding external LCD monitors -

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...displays-gorgeous.795452/page-5#post-10332113

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...displays-gorgeous.795452/page-6#post-10332280

 

The external G-sync monitors come with their own "chip" so it will work fine on any of the new GPUs.

External monitors will work regardless of the of in built panel in DM2/DM3. As I mentioned above, all external G-Sync monitors come with their own chip. Only for the internal panel, you need a G-Sync chip n the GPU.

 

Current Internal Panel Configurations from Clevo DM2/DM3 resellers.

1080p FHD 120hz - NOT G-Sync'ed Compatible...EVER

4K UHD 60hz - G-Sync'ed Compatible.

COMING SOON (Late Sept/Mid Oct)

1080p FHD 120hz - G-Sync'ed Compatible.

Rumored

1440p 120hz TN - AUO has developed this panel but Clevo nor any reseller is shipping this panel for any Clevo DTR. This is the most attractive option for many of us. I would personally buy this panel if/when it becomes available with or without G-Sync functionality.

4K UHD 120hz - I have yet to see any concrete evidence that any company has developed a 4K UHD 120hz panel for laptops. Even if this panel were available, the DM2/DM3 is incompatible due to technical limitations.


I have compiled this information from a week or so of research and talking to a few Clevo resellers. Like Phoenix, I didn't order my DM3 because it was confirmed that the current 1080p FHD 120hz panel does not and will not support G-Sync technology.

 

I've spoken to two different resellers who have confirmed the current 4k screen option for the Dm3 is NOT G-Sync compatible (AUO B173ZAN01.0).

Did you mix up the 1080p FHD and 4k UHD options? Last I heard, it was the 1080p screen that was G-Sync compatible.

 

That is coming in 2-3 weeks time, currently, the 120hz panel is NOT GSYNC compatible and the P870DM3 that was sold with it has non GSYNC GPUs in them

 

Well that essentially means both screen options for the DM3 are not G-Sync compatible. The 1080p screen will be compatible once the new model is in production, but the 4k is out for the foreseeable future.

 

I just tried configuring the P870DM3 on two different resellers - HIDevolution and Mythlogic. Both reselers show NON-G-Sync with the 1080p panel, but their 4K panel says it supports G-Sync. This matches with @Rage Set's post

 

The 4K P870DM3/2 models have GSYNC enabled GPUs it's just the systems that currently have the 120hz 1080p screens have non GSYNC GPUs so even when the panel gets certified, they would need to swap their GPUs to the GSYNC ones

 

The 4K 60hz panel currently shipping is G-Sync compatible. There are a few owners of the 4K P870DM3 in the owner's lounge that have it, speak to them and they will tell you. HIDevolution, Xoticpc and others are all offering a 4K UHD panel that is G-Sync enabled. Check their websites.

 

What's the panel make and model for those two resellers?

I take it you're able to state this with full confidence having checked with the resellers? I find it strange that models with the 4k screen have screens which aren't G-Sync capable yet the GPUs themselves have the option. Completely flies in the face of everything I've been lectured on over the last few pages.

 

Only USA based resellers then since both of the resellers I emailed are based in Europe.

Edit: That's odd, the HiDevolution 4k screen is also AUO. There's only one 4k screen in production by that company and I was told specifically by the resellers I talked to that the screen in question is not G-Sync compatible.

Either both resellers are wrong, or the USA resellers have made a mistake.

 

The main thing you are missing is that right now isn't the best time to purchase a P870DM3.

Rushing in to a purchase may be unsatisfying down the road, and it's highly likely you will wish you waited.

Not only based on the displays available for purchase now, but also due to high heat under load and loud cooling fans being experienced and reported by new owners in the main thread:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...oenix-2-is-here.794530/page-345#post-10332833

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ick-review-by-htwingnut.795187/#post-10333187

We don't know if the @Prema modded firmware will fix the high heat of the Pascal GPU's under load, but @Prema should be able to fix the temps on CPU's, at least fixes from the software side.

This is typical for a new product first time out of production and in to owners hands. The problems are found in the first couple of months, at least - it can be longer.

There are problems that come up that need to be fixed with production changes and an updated product is the result. RMA for Engineering changes is the best one can hope for. Not getting those fixes in your product is typical, and the fixes are shipped out in new product as a new model.

Pascal is a big leap forward in power and thermal handling requirements, and a number of new cooling designs have been implemented and the results so far aren't optimal for the 1080 SLI, especially with a 95w CPU to also keep cool.

The GT83VR 1080 SLI has similar temperature problems with the Pascal GPU's, and even the CPU is running hot.

We all want the new shiny when it ships, to be the first, but in this case it's becoming clear there are some kinks that need to be worked out.

 

Well, there's this - (which came from a Mythlogic post):

P870DM3
- FHD 120Hz = AUO B173HAN01.2 (AHVA)
- QFHD 4K screen = AUO B173ZAN01.0 (AHVA)

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...oenix-2-is-here.794530/page-147#post-10316466

Why don't you contact them or HIDevolution to confirm.

 

The 4k screen is what the EU resellers also offer, and I've been emailed confirming the screens are not G-Sync compatible.

Since everyone on this forum is in the loop and is having a joke at my ignorance, I don't know what to believe anymore.

 

You hit the nail on the head there! I don't know why european resellers are lagging behind though. Since the beginning of the DM2/DM3 launches, both had the option of the 4K 60hz G-Sync panel.

 

You've missed the edit to the post and my last one before this.

Same model for the 4k screen, but my emails to EU-based resellers say the screen isn't 4k compatible yet the US resellers claim it is.

 

Best bet is to shoot an email to both @mythlogic or @Ted@HIDevolution or @Donald@HIDevolution to get confirmation from them. They're your official source of what is available in the States.

Also, check with Sager Notebooks model NP9873 ( @Meaker@Sager ) they seem to have the same panels: FHD non-GSync and QFHD G-Sync as well.

 

Based on this:

http://www.panelook.com/sizmodlist.php?st=&pl=&sizes[]=17.3&production_state=1

There are now 2 options for 4k screens. One is the AUO offering while the other is by Innolux (which has no stock).
All resellers (regardless of USA or EU) offer the AUO option. So the big question which I can't seem to answer is: Is it G-Sync compatible?

It seems only owners of the model with that screen can answer that, since the resellers give different answers based on where they are from.

 

I don't see anyone making a joke at your expense. However, I do see that you are being steadfast in your belief that if the European resellers told you there is no 4K G-Sync option, everyone else is lying. The one thing you should know that each reseller CAN and WILL order the DM2/DM3 barebone according to what they think will sell. With that, I am exiting this discussion.

 

It is a mess, as initially noone knows for sure what is actually available - not advertised, not even the vendors.

Availability of product for each vendor is different in different regions, and even in the same region a vendor can select configurations from Sager that are different from other vendors.

Ad copy on Sager, on Vendor sites that build using Sager, and retail sites don't necessarily match, and you can't tell if they are wrong or just a different option. Some are advertising stuff not yet available without realizing it.

It's going to take a while to work out, and then when the G-sync options start arriving, it's going to be murky once again.

 

Same here, this is going no where

 

I agree GTX 1080s with 120hz and gsync are not necessary because it can push more than 60fps in most games so it really isn't needed. GTX 1080s in SLI with 120 hz screen really doesn't need gsync..as they can push games even closer to 120FPS+ So gsync isn't a necessity imo.

 

Do you know what G Sync actually does? Its not V Sync.... Google it, I can't be bothered to find it for you, currently on the mobile phone.

 

Yes I know how Gsync works. Thanks for asking ...

 

What he's getting at is a single 1080 runs just about every game except The Division run at more than 120fps - which at that point gsync disengages and switches to either vsync on or vsync off.
In my experience having gsync engaging and disengaging at the screen's refresh limit is more disturbing than a minuscule amount of tearing at high refresh with vsync simply off.

 

It does matter a bit less at the higher refresh rates.

I do like it for games that stay around 140 fps then dip to 90 fps time to time, it helps smooth those moments.

 

Actually I already pretty much knew the answer, and no the screen actually doesn't matter.
You are mistaken. As long as the GPU is a recent Nvidia, it will do Gsync. That goes back to about 670 gtx or so, whatever nvidia mobile gpus have gsync. I was actually asking the question just in case there was some very weird unexpected thing about the driver or something to do with the refresh rate, as in if your built in screen had one set of specs, and your external another, but that shouldn't matter either. The fact that some newer lappy screens are now gsync capable has nothing to do with the output to external monitors, which is what I actually thought. I was asking a wierd question, but this thread is mistaken.
It makes not difference what display is in your nvida-equipped laptop if you are using an external monitor and you want Gsync. Lappys were already doing gsync to external monitors before they started getting there own built-in display with gsync. I was just asking if somehow gsync built in's could have f'd that up. But there's NO WAY they removed external gsync from the GPU in any nvidia eqipped laptops (like ones that don't have gsync built-in dispays). I asked a confusing question and caused confusion .

 

Actually, this is the general consensus of this thread post page 8.

 

For external LCD monitors, yes. For the laptop's internal LCD panel, it gets more complicated.

This has already been covered with multiple posts in the thread. For reference, please start from any of these posts.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...displays-gorgeous.795452/page-5#post-10332089
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...displays-gorgeous.795452/page-6#post-10332280
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...displays-gorgeous.795452/page-7#post-10332830

and

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...displays-gorgeous.795452/page-8#post-10332909

 

Down the line frame rates will also drop.

 

Maybe not now, it will sure drop to less than 120fps in the near future for sure. When you're buying 1080, I assume you are going to be using it for some time.