Ryzen cpu clevo laptops emerges

Good, i am relieved now.
I was afraid that there could be some issue with PCIe M.2 SSDs, but the 970 EVO PLUS is a PCIe M.2 SSD as well, not a SATA M.2 SSD.

Probably just some issue with the very early BIOS tho.
Truth be told, Samsung is better than Corsair (in most cases, for regular users and gamers) than Corsair. So this is actually an upgrade.

EDIT:
Received a reply with further details
"It does not recognize the MP510 in the BIOS and also issues when installing Win10. This will be solved with a BIOS/EC update in the (near) future.

Best regards,"

 

Hi,

yes I got the same news. Hopefully he can send the laptop out tomorrow, then we might get it on saturday.

 

Interesting but the wife should be happy at least and that's always a positive

 

Haha indeed, happy wife happy life

 

New day new issue, now my ram modules aren't working as they should. I ordered 3200 mhz Kingston Impact dims. What RAM did you get?
Frits ordered some crucial ram which should arrive tomorrow. Luckily he does decent testing before shipping the laptop.

 

Were those not even working at all using JEDEC timings? I have the same ram, but ddr4-2666, so I wonder if they will work with the machine when it arrives.

 

Not sure what was exactly tested. The platform might just have some bugs atm.

 

When you say not work what happens with the sticks?

 

Yeah, 100%. I can almost guarantee that honest people are not going to be willing to share a boutique vendor's BIOS mod. Especially not around here. We'd crucify them. That's essentially a soft form of theft and it's just not acceptable. If you want it you need to step up and pay for it, or make do without if you buy from an el cheapo reseller to save a few bucks. That applies to special firmware from @Prema Partner Shops, @XMG and any other vendors that care enough to make something special and unique for their customers.

It would be interesting to know what, if anything, is different in terms of access to settings in the XMG BIOS versus the generic Clevo BIOS.

 

@Mr. Fox I remember there being an option to purchase prema bios files for clevo notebooks.
If so, where?
premamod.com is pretty sparse.

 

Hi. The only way to get a @Prema BIOS is by purchasing a Clevo from a PremaMod Partner Shop. https://premamod.com/partner/

Prema stopped making BIOS and vBIOS mods available on his web site a few years ago because too many people were stealing his product and reselling it as their own.

If you find one for sale anywhere, the person selling it is doing so without authorization and stealing his work. Even when he made the firmware mods available on his web site, the firmware was available on a free-will donation basis.

 

@Mr. Fox
That really is to bad.
I dont mind paying for a kind of "subscription" model.
Pay a fair amount of money and get all Bios-versions released for a device, but fully unlocked.
Saves me hunting down new Bios versions and devs get a fair shake for their effort.
I would definitely pay 20 to 25 for that.
But paying 400€ premium on a notebook just for an unlocked BIOS?
Thats to much for me.

 

Well that is not even close to reasonable. There is no financial incentive for this to be offered.

You generally get a lot more than a firmware mod. The firmware is a personalized finishing touch. By saving $400 you're getting a "whatever happens to be in the box" and a "hope it turns out ok" experience with potentially no caring and responsive after-sale support.

Unless you are good at taking care of yourself, don't care about quality control, and only need a place to buy spare parts, this is money well spent. No vendor worth buying from is going to do greater things than normal for free. They would be cutting their own throat selling the firmware mods for less than half what most spoiled brats pay for a new AAA game release, so $25 seems insulting. Even more so expecting updates and future firmware mods would follow later for free as part of a subscription for such as absurdly low price.

 

Providing an unlocked BIOS a) requires development time b) increases your support costs. This is going to have an impact on price.

 

I'm gonna try Carbonaut and Kryonaut and see what comes of that! Eventually if I get ballsy I'll de-lid and Go Lm.

 

@Meaker@Sager I was just reading up a bit about XMG and found that they, from now on, will no longer support XMP.
i checked out the recommended ram kits that reach 3200mhz without XMP and they are cl22.
Thats horrendously slow.

Do you have any info on why they went that way? A rep from XMG said they would look into maybe supporting it after all, after a lot of people complained.

As an employee of Sager, can you comment on the matter?

 

XMP is really an Intel technology so all the settings are tuned for Intel memory controllers which can cause issues with AMD chips.

 

Yeah, but so can RAM that runs 3200mhz with CL22 latencies.

Without the option to either use XMP or adjust clocks and latencies by hand this will definitely affect performance on Ryzen systems.

 

Or keep an eye out for future memory kits. If they get more popular then I would export more kits designed for AMD platforms.

 

DDR4 is getting really close to being replaced by DDR5 now, do you think there will ever be high-performance DDR4 that runs 3200 (or faster) with CL16?
Its possible, sure, but seems kinda unlikely to me.

I assume it was Clevo who decided to ditch XMP.
I can see the reasoning behind not enabling it by default, but removing it entirely is harsh.
Do you know why they went that way?

 

XMP is kind of like cookie cutter Sloppy Joe RAM overclocking. The settings will usually boot, but they are generally very loose timings and do not offer particularly amazing performance. You will usually get better results using custom timings. Most laptop manufacturers have some kind of goofy Nazi god complex and think it should be acceptable to hide firmware menus providing basic access to settings that every computer owner should have access to.

 

I couldn't agree more.
I could live with only having XMP available to me.
But no XMP and no Ram-overclocking either is terrible.

Micron E-dies are amazingly overclockable and so cheap.
A real shame not being able to properly utilize it.

 

These have been available for a few years:
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/k2KhP6/gskill-ripjaws-8gb-1-x-8gb-ddr4-3200-memory-f4-3200c16s-8grs
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/nR...-4-x-8gb-ddr4-3600-memory-cmsx32gx4m4x3600c16

As well as these newer, cheaper ones: https://www.crucial.com/catalog/memory/ballistix-sodimm

 

@yrekabakery And those have 3200/3600mhz as their lowest JEDEC specs and dont utilize XMP?
Are you sure about this?
I definitely would not like being stuck with 2666mhz just because XMP cant be used.

EDIT: I actually wanted to buy those Crucial Ballistix 3200 CL16, but i cant seem to find out if those use 3200mhz as their lowest JEDEC spec or if they use XMP.

 

Extremely unlikely... it would be totally abnormal. XMP is pretty much the standard across the board and the highest JEDEC is usually 2400.

 

Yeah, but thats what i was talking about.

I am well aware that Ramkits exist that go above the JEDEC specs.
But thats completely irrelevant since the Clevo Ryzen notebooks do not support XMP. At all.
They only support the lowest JEDEC specs on any given ramkit.
Something i had explained on the previous page.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/fsbsr0/megathread_xmg_apex_15_with_amd_ryzen_desktop_cpu/

Just an FYI for people reading this.
Dont buy any of the kits mentioned by @yrekabakery or you will be deeply disappointed.

 

You didn’t mention the JEDEC-only requirement. JEDEC timings are always garbage. The best module which doesn’t require XMP support to run at its rated spec is the Kingston HyperX 2666MHz CL15.

 

Yes, i did on the previous page.

no XMP or ram overclocking = JEDEC only

 

Ah, the Kingston HyperX I already had works ok at ddr4-2666. I am not sure how much slower it is than the other options, but it does work.

 

Not exactly. CL15 is better than JEDEC timing for 2666MHz, but the Kingston HyperX runs at that in PnP mode without XMP support or overclocking because it is programmed into the SPD profile on those modules.

 

The stock firmware doesn't have options exposed for manual timings and XMP profile use. The laptop itself should support it just fine. This is pretty much standard firmware feces for all laptops. Unless you have an unlocked BIOS or have an MSI with the "developer" backdoor key combo that works, you're pretty much up poop creek with no paddle in terms of configuring anything. That problem isn't limited to memory configuration.

Fun fact: All laptops suck with stock firmware. The Nazi dolts that engineer and manufacture them universally suck at their jobs. Made for puppets by muppets.

The kits @yrekabakery posted should work fine on a laptop that has undergone a reverse vasectomy.

 

Well... It's economical to manufacturers to make one-size-fits-all/freesize underwears irregardless of buyers' bum size or waist size, than having concern to come out with specific measurements for specific group of folks with different bum and tum.

 

I agree with @Mr. Fox

On one hand i absolutely love Clevo for making an absolute powerhouse of a notebook and giving us the hardware we really want at a decent price-point.

On the other hand tho i hate them for completely ****ing up the software.

 

Hey guys, I was looking to order the XMG APEX 15 with the 3900, NV RTX 2070 and 32GB 3200MhZ RAM.
Don't think I need the SSD or the HDD as I have both actually along with Win 10 on the side.
Total price of that config (with wifi 6) would be £1594.52.

While XMG guys did post temperatures under full stress test for the said CPU and GPU simultaneously (which seemed ok - about mid 70-ies for GPU and 82.5 degrees C for CPU)... they didn't say anything about noise levels.
The PC Specialist website here in UK is selling an identical laptop (but won't be available until late May) for £1690 (with everything included - SSD, HDD and Win 10 Home)... however, the review of the UK version of the laptop mentioned that temperatures on the CPU go over 90 degrees Celsius and the noise levels are just under 50 decibels.

XMG's temperatures are lower on the CPU (about 82.5 degrees C under full load with GPU too), but XMG did mention the laptop does get loud, albeit couldn't say specifically HOW loud (XMG also uses Kryonaut thermal paste, whereas PC Specialist uses regular stock paste with IC diamond as an option if you choose it).
So I don't know if the XMG is cooler because of the thermal paste, or because the fans are working harder (or the same) compared to the PCSpecialist version.

Since I'd be using this thing for 3d animation and visualisation (and occasional gaming), I would like it if the laptop wasn't yelling at me and inducing headaches via fan noise when fully or moderately stressed.

I had a bad experience with Asus GL702ZC whose fans went up to 57 decibels when gaming alone, and I can tell you that was inducing headaches.
The Acer PH517-61 on the other hand was dead quiet and cool but had to send it back due to a failed bios Update (only thing is, I CAN get it again for £1420 - the version with 512GB SSD), but obviously it would have older and less powerful CPU (Ryzen 2700) with no option for upgrade as Acer dropped support for it (whereas XMG said they will include full BIOS support for Zen 3 when it comes out).

My biggest question about the XMG are the noise levels. Would they be 'tolerable' and not require headphones?
I could game on the Acer on full CPU and GPU load with the thing being barely audible... the XMG might not be quite as quiet - which could be a problem if I bring the laptop into class and work on it there (as other students might be unable to focus with high fan noise).

Any of you have any idea on how loud the XMG would be with 3900 and 2070?

 

I think the 3900 and 2070 would be pretty loud in performance mode, maybe tolerable in entertainment mode provided XMG has tuned the fan tables. I think the stock fan tables are pretty bad. Both have idle fan speed set over 2500rpm, and with intermittant load there is oscillation, and with max load very high dB (fans close to 6000rpm). The custom fan curve does not seem to work right either - it does slow idle speed down but doesn't actually set the speed to the values you specify for each threshold.

Have you considered 3700X and 2070? It may be quieter and still offer better performance than the PH517-61.

I wouldn't pick up another PH517-61 just because if it dies again you know exactly what will happen.

 

My PH517-61 didn't die because of a hw malfunction. It died because a latest bios update corrupted it (the previous two BIOS updates worked fine) - the repair team was unable to reflash the BIOS so they decided to replace the mobo instead (which Acer never sent - I was waiting for over a month until I had enough of the waiting and got a refund).

Otherwise, if I did get the PH517-61 again, I obviously wouldn't touch the BIOS at all this time (aka, I wouldn't update it at all).

XMG mentioned something along the lines they intend on releasing a BIOS update with updated fan profiles and they said the fans can be set to your specs... but this was also possible on GL702ZC (not on the Acer - the Acer didn't need it)... except, it didn't really work on Asus - kinda getting the feeling something the same might happen on XMG and I could get excessively loud fans like on the GL702ZC which were headache inducing and not really fit to do any work under such conditions (the Acer was fine).

3700x and 2070?
Well, there is no guarantee this config would be quieter, is there? Both the 3700x and 3900 consume same amount of power, except the 3900 is about 26% more powerful in multithreading tasks and costs only 45 EUR more than the 3700x (for the XMG).

When you say 'very high db (fans close to 6000rpm)', just how much of db are we talking about?

 

Get a Ryzen 9 3900X or 3950X. The binning of the chiplets is much better than in the Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 processors.

 

@Deks If you want to buy from XMG thats perfectly fine.
They offer good service and a good product, but they are not cheap.

Link: https://laptopparts4less.frl/game-l...evo-NH57AF1-RTX-2070-game-laptop-samenstellen

That s the same Clevo model as the one the XMG Apex 15 uses.
The basic price and components are cheaper here.
You can even write them an email before you order and that way you can order it without ram and without Windows. That way you save even more and have more control over the components used.

Depending on your build you can save between 400 and 500€.

Their premium thermal paste is made by Noctua. I went with the basic paste and gonna repaste with Coolermaster Mastergel Maker instead.

I went with the 3700x. It offers great performance at a great price and runs within the 65W power-envelope that is the limit on this notebook.
Since this is a normal AM4 socket, you can then sell the CPU on when the Ryzen 4000 Desktop series comes and get a much more powerful CPU with more cores/threads that fits into that 65W envelope as well and make minimal loss.

The release of Ryzen 4000 is just around the corner, so selling the chip on release and paying a bit more for the upgrade is probably a decent way to go.

 

Do you happen to know what are your fan noise levels when stressing the CPU and GPU simultaneously at max?
I kinda need to know whether this laptop will cause me headaches during gaming and productivity with fan noise (my ears can't tolerate over 50db apparently).

 

3950x is too expensive and not worth it in a laptop (at 65W it only offers 15% higher performance than 3900 at 65W).
3900x and 3950x may be higher binned, but that doesn't matter if the laptop is really loud and causes me headaches under full load.
I can live with Ryzen 2700 and V56 for the next 4 years most likely in the Acer which doesn't produce any uncomfortable noise levels (if I cannot get a decent modern Zen2/Navi laptop with similarly quiet fans - I'm only considering NV because right now, this is the only DTR on the market without an AMD option - sadly).

Thing is, I'm indecisive because 3700x and 3900 are more powerful and XMG offers upgrade paths to Zen 3 65W CPU's too.
That, and the possibility of finding something like 4800H with 5600M or 5700m in a 15"/17" chassis with decent cooling and low fan noise in the next month or two (though I also kinda could use a laptop now).

 

@Deks Mine hasnt arrived, yet, but this isnt my first Desktop-replacement notebook with a full Desktop CPU.
If you are hoping that this will be a quiet system under load you will be disappointed.
For a notebook the cooling will be pretty beefy, but these are fully fletched Desktop parts and the 3700x is running at full power without any eco-mode. So you get the full performance, but the full noise as well.

I am sure it can be improved with a good thermalpaste, some undervolting and an adjusted fan-curve (or even a modded bios) but it will never be a quiet system when gaming/working hard.

Sadly you will have to chose between high-end performance with some noise or you take a step back performance-wise and buy something lighter like a ryzen 4000 notebook with an rtx 2060 (or even an rtx max-q card).

Those have the potential to still give you good performance but with a lot less noise.

 

I've had DTR's before and my previous PH157-61 (as I mentioned above) was really quiet and cool (under full loads - and that thing had desktop Ryzen 2700 65W and Vega 56 120W) - but as I mentioned above, I had to return it because a BIOS update failed and corrupted it, and because Acer couldn't repair it in a month, I had to get a refund (otherwise the unit was working fine and it was reliable... I just shouldn't have tried updating the freaking BIOS).

So, its not like DTR's need to be excessively noisy to give full performance of a desktop chip.

The problem I had with a DTR before the Acer was the Asus GL702ZC. That was a fundamentally unpleasant experience with fans creating headaches for me at 57db (it was impossible to work or concentrate).

Unfortunately, I saw the reviews of 4800H and 4900HS with RTX 2060 and lower... I wasn't satisfied with the temperatures on those units and the fan noise was also questionable (not something I would like to tolerate).

 

@Deks I guess we can only wait for reviews. I assume those will be out before i get mine.

Der8auer made a video about the Apex 15. He does say a few things about it. Maybe that would help you decide?

english:


german:

 

It is 60dB under load, and around 45-50dB at idle, according to a sound meter app on my phone about 18 inches from the screen.

Part of the problem is that the custom fan table does not seem to be changeable - it may be some bug in Clevo Control Center. I can live with higher consistent speeds, but it can't be constantly pulsing up and down while it hovers around the third threshold. I may try buying ObsidianPC's Fan Control app. Another issue is I may have botched the paste job. I have Phobya Nanogrease Extreme on order so probably won't repaste until then. Although my load temps do seem to be on par with XMG's results (90C 3950X / 85C 2070) so I don't know..

 

@win32asmguy which version do you have?

 

Already seen that video, and unfortunately, it doesn't really say anything about fan noise under load for 3900 or 3700x.
Oh well, I might just have to forget about it then since it doesn't seem like this unit would be able to remain relatively quiet while working (which is something I need to consider if I'll be taking it to classes with me - I cannot have the fans producing large noise levels and distracting everyone - myself included).

 

60db under load and 45-50db at idle?

That's way too high (something doesn't sound right with those idle results you got though - I think the machine should be relatively quiet at idle).
The Asus GL702ZC produced 57 db when fully stressed and that was doing my head in during gaming only (I was developing really bad headaches as a result of prolonged noise and it was impossible for me to focus or work).
Out of curiosity, can you really work with that thing and fans with such high db?

57db was even audible through my in-ear headphones...

But, I am curious, which CPU did you get? 3950x or something else?

Also, even if you could change the fan profiles... wouldn't that just produce higher temperatures if you were to try and make them run quieter under full load, resulting in potential thermal throttling or the heat being unable to be removed properly from the system which could (eventually) damage other motherboard components?

 

The sound of a train passing directly next to you is 80db.
The sound of a jet taking off in close vicinity is roughly 100db.

This notebook should not be 50db under idle.
If it is, i dont want it.

Kinda suspect something may be off here tho.

 

How long have you been awaiting the arrival of your Musclebook?

 

He is running the 3950x which is not supported.