Sager (7280) Clevo (X7200) Power Supply Issues.

*sigh* looks like sager doesn't care enough

 

Its a bit early to say that, give them a chance lol

 

I didn't arrive at the same conclusion. Did we read the same statement? I think clevo will inevitably come up with a bios based solution. AW owners know what Im talking about.

 

Well, they aren't caring enough YET.

 

If I was Sager here would be my response:

To the people that are experiencing this power supply shut down issue, we ask that you please stop running furmark and Prime95 at the same time. Please use your computers in a normal everyday usage pattern such as playing games and surfing the internet. Give us a few days to evaluate the problem, and come up with a solution. When a solution has been identified (i.e. Beef up the power supply to say 400W) we will inform our customers of what we intend to do to fix the problem and how long it will take for us to implement the fix. During this time we have asked our resellers to discontinue shipping units as a precaution. We want to thank our customers for being patient while we address this problem.

Maybe this would satisfy more people?

 

I hope you are wrong

 

Sager is very concerned about this issue, and while everyone should realize that running Prime95 and Furmark at max settings simultaneously is an unusual use of this, or any laptop, Sager is working on a solution for this kind use. Below is Sager's statement regarding their progress:

"First and foremost, we understand that users are experiencing some frustrations regarding the AC adapter issue. We take these frustrations very seriously and want to do all we can to address the concerns of our customers. As a result, after reading the forum posts, we conducted further in-house testing all day yesterday and late into the night.

Where we stand right now is that, as we have stated before, there is no safety issue with the AC adapter. As we have also stated before, the adapter has a built in safety breaker which makes it safe to use. We also have confirmed with Clevo that the adapter is capable of reaching 350 watts, which is enough for the system for normal/standard to moderately heavy usage.

That said, we fully realize that many of our users are eager to push this system to the limit. We acknowledge that in these situations, the AC adapter’s limits may be exceeded. Because we want all of our users to be satisfied with what we believe is an exceptional gaming system, we called for an emergency meeting with Clevo and spent much of last night in discussions with them. Our goal was to make Clevo aware of this issue and to hopefully work toward a solution.

In our discussions with Clevo we suggested two potential solutions. One is a larger AC adapter. The second is to build a customized power switch box that will allow users to connect two AC adapters together to provide more power to the unit. Right now, Clevo is assessing these solutions with the goal of implementing one that can be put in the hands of our customers as quickly as possible. Let me stress that our discussions with Clevo were extremely positive and it was clear from our conversations that they are making it a top priority to provide a solution to Sager.

Again, we are committed to providing a quality product to our users and we entered into discussions with Clevo as soon as this issue was brought to our attention. We are encouraged by Clevo’s response and are highly optimistic that a solution will be put in place in the very near future.

While we have this opportunity we also want to address some of the concerns that have been raised about our internal testing procedures. Here at Sager, we have a rigorous testing regimen that every system is put through before being shipped. To be clear, all of our systems are tested under Furmark 1.8.2 at 1024x768 2x aa for 5-6 hours. We adjust the setting accordingly to make sure the system is running at 320 to 350watt load for 5 to 6 hours before it's shipped out to users. During our testing, we did not have a single unit that tripped the safety breaker.

Again, we are committed to bringing the best possible product to our customers. We are certain an effective solution will be implemented by Clevo in the very near future. We will share any updates with you as we receive them from Clevo. Thank you again for your business and for your constructive feedback."

 

I don't want mine de-tuned,

I would rather go out and get my own 400w power supply made,

So you guys can all send yours back and I will be the only one in the world with a laptop with 480M's and a 995x Extreme processor, running sweetly and pulling in 30k benchmarks hehe

Dr Evil ooooohhhhh aaahhhhh hheehhee

Lol

 

While doing emails and such this morning on the NP7280 I ran furmark for an hour and some prime95 torture tests at the same time.
Granted it was not real long but the temps stayed very good and the psu was just luke warm with no shut downs or any signs of any problem during all of this...

 

You can do all that with the existing 300W AC Adapter.

Running two benchmark utilities at max settings simultaneously in no way replicates extreme gaming conditions. It goes well beyond that, so in reality there is no reason to be concerned...unless you do the rather unusual "testing" that has been described here with the two benchmark utilities running simultaneously.

The other thing we don't know about Speedy's testing is the condition of his electrical input, or whether there were any spikes or brownouts while he was doing it.

 

you need run multi GPU furmark and prime 95 not single GPU furmark

i have no problem if the PSU shutsdown doing such extreme test. the problem i have is when just playng a GAME the PSU did shutsdown EX Mafia 2

if i can't play every single game on this machine then there is clearly a problem with the hardware

extreme torture testing is one thing but gaming is something else. the power in my home is perfectly stable and i don't have brownouts or any other issues thanks

 

Same applies to Notebookcheck's testing. I doubt they had any power related issues in their lab.

But it's good to hear that Clevo is well aware and working on a solution.

Two PSU's connected together...now that's hilarious. My AW Orion Backpack will say die to such a package.
We need to start a new thread : " What backpack can possible hold the X7200?"

 

Speedy,

(If this is a stupid question you can give a stupid answer) But....

Have you contacted your reseller about trying a different power supply?

 

It's called a suitcase and it's got wheels!

 

no i don't

 

But its mobile !

 

Stranger "Sir what's that in your wheelbarrow?"
X7200 owner "Oh that's my dual PSU for my laptop, they call it PSU SLI"

Calls for a new addition to my signature, hehe

 

Well this makes me happy to know they will be fixing this problem.

I must ask if speedy had his laptop plugged into a power UPS or straight into the wall. My desktop pc trips the power supply when its direct connected. I have my mine hooked to a very large ups no problems.

 

I am going to have to agree. Every game out should be able to run. Taking it further though, it is unacceptable for the unit to be unstable when 100% full tilt on all components. Yes this is an unrealistic usage for most users, but for some it will happen in real life. Clevo/Sager has no business dictating what or how users use their laptops (this is not apple). It should be designed 120% durable. AW pulled the same crap and it cost them ALOT of business with the 2 M17x revisions (each with its own problems - all power related as well coincidently). EVERY product should be over designed and over built so that there is never even the slightest doubt of the products abilities to operate up to customer expectations.

And Babyhemi...was that a 12 thread prime95 session or 1 thread? I am sure I do not have to explain why that matters.....

 

maybe it is unusual for the common consumer but anyone who purchases the 480M SLI version of these laptops is considered an enthusiast, and this is where clevo's problem lies. they thought no one would be smart enough to run a cpu and gpu torture test at the same time, thus allowing the 300w psu to pass QC. you also have this scenario; where a usuer is playing a game in window'ed mode (or even full screen mode) and pegs the gpu's at 100%, then the user decides (while leaving the game running in the background) to encode / render some movies in another application that also starts to peg the cpu at 100%. you run the risk of instability, especially on a maxed out system with all it's usb ports plugged into something. you simply cannot skimp on a component, like the psu, of an enthusiast system build. forcing a stock-clocked system at 100% load indefinately should never run into stability issues.

not everyone lives in an air-conditioned room and not everyone's electrical supply is 100% super clean at all times. a psu running above it's wattage rating is completely susceptable to these types of overloads and interferance conditions.

clevo needs to adjust it's sku right away.

1] anyone that orders the system with only 1 480M recieves the standard 300w psu.

2] anyone that orders it with 480M SLI recieves the bigger 400w psu while the price increase for this new psu is passed along to the buyer, unfortunately.

3] anyone that already has the 480M SLI version is asked not to stress their system to 100% levels while awaiting a free replacement 400w psu and they need to ship their original psu back. all this is at no cost covered under warranty, including shipping charges.

4] sager and it's resellers need to ensure that anyone that wants to upgrade to 480M SLI in the future understand the 400w psu would be a requirement and could also be factored into the sku pricing of the upgrade package.

i think the adapter to plug in 2 psu's is a mistake and would make the system a laughing stock on the internet, thus hurting their sales.

 

speedy's case happened when playing MafiaII. if gaming machine can't run any single game, it was just a useless brick.

 

an example like that he could have disabled SLI to ensure the system was not taxed as much.

 

It was 12 thread prime95 and at the same time furmark with SLI fully enabled with 1920x1080 set during the tests for an hour. I am not an stress or overclocking king by no means but I am happy so far with my personal x7200.
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That is very interesting then. It is almost looking like the sample/review units are a different revision from the final product that customers are getting.

 

@hemi SLI enabled don't means you using both GPU's in furmark if you look at the screen shoot you post one GPU on the bottom is not loaded

this is how two GPU's loaded looks on furmark


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

Im a at about page 5 with the reading , and will read it all to see your comments. But from what i have read so far, it seems clear to me that the allready huge psu is not enough for 980x and 480m sli. Not to mention 990x.

However, with the proper psu, the x7200 would shine. But OH mY god, this PSu is allready monstruous. A 400w PSU, as you said, would mean, having to cary with you the equivalent of another laptop. This is ludricous.

However, if you do not move often, and the psu sits with the laptop 95% of the time, making a 400w psu will not be that problematic.

My question is now. Wil a 980x and a 5870/6870 crossfire survive off a 300w psu ?
But the most important question of all> How is CLEVO gonna fix all this?

If WE created a situation where the 300 w psu proves insufficient, i'm sure their engineers have, and if not, well, they should hire speedy gonzales ) And if they did created such a test situation, why in gods name didnt they made the laptop with a bigger psu ?

My hopes for x7200 would be a 970 cpu 12gb ram and 6870 crossfire. But i doubt it its gonna survive on a 300w cpu.
Esspecialy since the 6870m is gonna be based on barts/barts xt, the desktop 6750/6770, wich will have 256 bit memry bus and a few more shaders than the 800, something like 1100 or something. All in all this would be expected to have a performance close to desktop 5850 5870. That brought to the laptop world in crossfire. would rock. but then again so would power consumption.

I cant wait to see how clevo deals with this issue.

 

I did check at the begining and thoughout the tests with GPU-Z and other utilites and all seemed like both GPU's were being used, the temps indicated it was used on both GPU's as well. Again I am not a pro like you...

 

The sample units most of us resellers received are no different then the final production units. As many of the resellers have stated we also have been forwarding these issues and this thread over to Sager for further review to take up with Clevo. As we get updates we will pass them along. We have been able to trip the AC Adapter as Speedy has in some of our testing.

 

There is no point speculating about future options or gpus. What is relevant though is how did this pass their testing. And the 990x will not make a difference, ALL of the desktop 1366 stuff (not xeons) are the same 130W thermal package.

 

Well if you were able to replicate the behavior that is a great start. It is very comforting to see that the resellers are also helping to troubleshoot and diagnose the problem to assist in a solution being generated. I hope that it happens sooner rather than later as this is not painting Clevo in a very good light and they have otherwise been a solid company.

 

No problem Hemi i don't even care at this point if you happy with your machine and you don't have any problem that's what matters my PSU could be defective and maybe the rest of the systems are not affected

 

It would be good if yours is an isolated incident but I am just not holding my breath for that being the case knowing how precious every watt is for performance laptops after having pushed my M17x so hard.

 

I am willing to do another 1 hour test between today and tomorrow. How does everyone want me to try furmark and prime95? Suggestions that are not too extreme are welcome...

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Give the laptop a worst case scenario.

-Sitting flat on a table top
-12 threads of Prime95 running
- Multi GPU version of FurMark running to push both GPUs

In a separate test from the FurMark/Prime95 stress test can you also do an OCCT Power Supply Test also with the laptop sitting flat on a hard surface. I would say sitting on a blanket but I think that would be asking for trouble haha (and I hope the owners of $5k laptops would be smarter than that)

 

Why not forget tests and run Mafia 2 like Speedy.

Seriously do you resellers really understand what your selling or are you simply salesman ? Lets wait to see what the engine driver does (Sager) not the oil rag (resellers) I want my new laptop to be the beast i was promised. Act Fast or stop selling them until they are right.

I have had many sager machines since the early 90s, always left me with a good feeling . So glad to see they are on it.

Scook9 advice seems to becoming from a guy who knows what he is doing. Test as he has said.

 

Rather than increasing more and more the psu size every time more power is needed I would look at what cars industry is doing with electric cars
like mercedes and BMW which combined different power sources
for laptop extra power requirement there are for instance solar panels, internal batteries, laptop panels made with batteries, power generator from heat etc...
time to change the way to look at it

 

All in all, it is good to hear that a solution to this problemis being worked on. Exotic pcs stated they also triped the safe mark. So this is not an isolated incident. However, clevo said the 300w psu can actualy hit 350w. And even so is not enough.

The best solution in my opinion, even if it will not be elegant, would be a bigger supply.

If i were clevo, or sager, because sager is in the usa, i woul give those BEAR custom supply guys a call. At least try to talk with them. Maybe they can create a 400 500 w psu in a smaller cubic space. They do custom suplies after all.

 

None of those options are really acceptable for a laptop. Solar will not work in a dark room which is a common enough usage scenario (they also have VERY low power/area so would not help much at all) and an internal battery is already there.....if that has to be used in conjunction with the AC adapter (which would take a motherboard redesign as well) then you still have finite time to operate at full load with stability. By that thought though.......how about hooking the laptop up to an excercise bike haha, or many gerbil powered......

 

I'm not saying 100W with just a solar panel but if you combine different solutions you get something interesting
I already thought about what you say but it doesn't change that it could be worth it for futur desktop replacement laptops even if it's 5W here and 10W there it works well for electric cars (if you take 5 or 10W from a 90W internal battery you get 9 hours of extra power to run a benchmark and get it back when you don't run it or your laptop goes idle)

edit: I found the link I was looking for

Cars of the future could be powered by their bodywork thanks to new battery technology

 

All of the companies that manufacture power supplies make a whole line up with all sorts of outputs, all they have to do is change the tip that goes into the laptop. This is the easier solution, it will just take time for Clevo to make sure that it works well with the x7200 - but hopefully not too long

 

@Sager/Clevo,
No need to increase anything, just take two M17X PSU's. Together, they will be still smaller than the x7200 PSU and provide up to 480W


On a side note, if AW engineers are working on the "Mothership" M18X - it's time for them to act

 

In time I am sure forum members will try Mafia 2 and all other games of interest. I myself have had many Clevo's - Sager's since the mid 90's and I really feel this x7200 will not disappoint when all of the concerns and issues out there are resolved, which should be soon.
How many times has a GIANT release like this came out and there were NO issues?...
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Are those tests I detailed doable for you Hemi?

I think if anything they will expose any PSU shortcomings

 

I will try one or some of your suggestions tomorrow hopefully, when I get a slot of time for it. Thanks.

 

SLi notebook with SLi power supply units, sounds like a win-win to me! Honestly I wouldn't mind the same for the M17x lol. But for the "average" person buying these systems, I think 2x PSU's is a bit absurd. If Clevo is smart about it, they will issue a bios update that throttles down the CPU multipliers as well as possibly tweak voltages to get a better power footprint. They could couple that with a 350W PSU (which would only be marginally bigger) and come out ahead. Of course performance will be down across the board but at least the system will be stable. Like I said, Dell tried pulling that crap with us recently with the M17x until we fired back and they caved. But then again, the M17x wasn't in a situation like this either. I do like the way Clevo has responded though, it's encouraging.

My advice to potential customers: Wait for revision 2 of this notebook.

 

What if the car crashes? It's like c4 around the bodyframe.

 

the problem is already here with standard batteries or fuel tanks

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what humans like to do the most.... eat
what laptops like to do the most....heat

 

Ford Pinto 2.0?

 

Is this car talk for real !

 

no it's supposed to be a benchmark thread
speedy gonzales found out that the clevo X7200's psu seems not to be able to handle the power needed under max load for maximized configurations
car talks are more part of ideas to solve this problem