Sager 8800 Update

Sager 9261 (D901C)... will need a mobo upgrade for full 8800M SLI support... I was just alluding to the point that a single 8800M in it works (from my sources)... but dual SLI 8800M's have issues.

Sager will make a nice announcement for their customer to upgrade at a low cost.

 

This is great news. I will put my order in as soon as they give the green light.

 

Could anyone explain me a bit more S3/S4 and standby/sleep/hibernate?
Cause I see 2 S, and 3 states?

 

Just to make my standpoint a bit more clearer (and show that I actually agree with Gophn): it's quite possible that certain configurations will work to a degree. A company like Clevo can not approve an upgrade where S3 is not supported (or SLI or whatever). It would be a bad sign, quality wise: "Hey guys, we officialy sell products without S3,mkay?" The industry would jump on this like flies on ... well .

But if these issues are not a point for you, you migth still get lucky.

And finally: we need to wait 'till the dust settles.

 

Well I would say this is quite disappointing, it looks like every change requires a new motherboard. I think it would be fair from Clevo and Sager to stop advertising their notebooks as upgradeable, and state clearly that any future upgrade would probably require an expensive motherboard swap.

As for S3 (sleep mode) not working, that is quite a problem, since that is usually the mode the notebook goes to when the lid is closed. However I find it strange that this is a hardware flaw, it is more likely to be an issue with the BIOS or video driver.

 

I suppose everyone is going to mindlessly believe all this pre-sale speculation then? I'm surprised my post has been so ignored.

 

Ok they can call it upgradeable but lets drop the "user" part for now.

But I agree we need to wait for the dust to settle a bit on this.

 

RaiseR RoofeR, You can fully authenticate my post with Sager. Sager would not claim a upgrade is needed when it is really not needed. We would never lie to a consumer to increase sales.

Sager's testing to date has confirmed no software update will fix this problem.

 

Justin@XoticPC,

Have you gotten a date yet when we will be able to start the upgrade process? Are we still looking at 6 Dec for the information to be released or will it be after that?

 

and have you seen the 169.12 drivers on laptop video2go? one of the notes is:

"# Fixes a resume from Sleep/Hibernate issue with GeForce 8800 GT."

Have you tried these drivers? (I know they aren't official...) but may work with the GTX too?

Nox

 

kl5167, Unfortunately we are still looking at the 6th for upgrade and all pricing information.

nox_uk, I assume Sager has tested all video drivers in order for them to make a statement that it can not be fixed by any software update. I will forward your suggestion to them.

 

^^^ good point?? hmm wonder if that will help but yeah overall never again. these notebooks are not truly "upgradable" imo i feel reall bad for those that upgraded their 9xx series mobo's already and now have to deal with this. that is pure crap imo. i like everyone else know this is not justin's fault or any other re-seller for that matter but i know i will from here out take anything said by clevo/sager with a grain of salt and not really believe it till i see it for myself.

 

Justin,

Thanks for the information! I will keep an eye out for it.

 

(Not read thr whole thread yet)

What is Suspend to Memory?

ie: Suspend to hard disk is all I do (ie: Hibernate, close the lid with appropriate options.)

What exactly is Suspend to Memory? (Is that the Intel M571RU dilly, so us M570RU owners don't care?)

jeff

 

LaptopVideo2Go had a fix for the drivers for a sleep problem like this.
Apparently their site is down right now so I can't pull it strait from their site but I got this somewhere else:

You had to change the MapOSD3ToNV value in the INF file of the nvidia drivers before installing the drivers to fix this problem. After you change the value, then you install the drivers.

I haven't tried this fix before but I do remember seeing the MapOSD3ToNV in the INF file.

The chances of this actually being the solution would probably be low because they probably already tried it, but I'm just trying to throw possible solutions out there.

 

I would be amazed (and ashamed in Sagers place) if they missed that one

 

I'm sure Bill and the other will get the site up and running again. Yesterday, trouble began with unussual server requests, apparantly coming from a search engine bot and the the hosting service suspended the site... To be continued for sure.

 

I'm wondering how long this deal will be available. I'm not really ready to upgrade everything right now but am interested in doing it in the future.

 

Question for ya Gophn. I have the 9260 so could I run a single 880 in that and be ok?

 

OK.... Clevo 570ru DOESNT support new 8800 GTX ????? without any new hardware

CONCLUSIV AND TRUE ANSWER PLEASE.

 

I cannot confirm that myself (which I would like to do)... but some results I got points to that.... although I would like some more info for stability.

You just have to be patient in getting all of the information when the card is available here.

 

the sleep mode on laptops is a huge deal. i don't advise anyone to ignore this issue. you will kill the resale value of your machine. if you don't disclose the issue before you sell it i can only imagine the confusion and frusteration this will cause for everyone involved. with the multi-year extended warranties resellers may be facing warranty claims by an un-informed end user thinking his or her laptop is dying or whatnot.

i would not be surprised if the resellers will refuse to sell the 8800m cards outright right now. they may force you to do the motherboard upgrade or somehow ensure that you do indeed have the correct version motherboard before they sell a card to you.

 

alienware has something on their tech support site regarding the sleep mode issues with the desktop 8800 gtx cards.

http://4help.alienware.com/cgi-bin/alienware.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=5458&p_created=1172853823&p_sid=anCqPTRi&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MTcmcF9wcm9kcz0mcF9jYXRzPTAmcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF9mbmwmcF9zY2ZfY19sYW5ndWFnZT0yMDUmcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD04ODAwbSBndHg*&p_li=&p_topview=1

 

That looks weird...I mean, since the 8800M GTX is based on the 8800 GT, a possible fix for it could mean a possible fix for the mobile counterpart.
I do hardly doubt though that Sager will take back what they initially said, and will most definitely not sell the 8800M GTX with the older platforms.
This is commerce

 

please ????

 

Xenupy: Nobody knows yet, as is stated MANY TIMES THROUGHOUT THE THREAD. That's why you're being ignored.

Now then, back to the real issue.

 

IT SUPPORTS IT, there's a zillion pages about it, but there is a suspend/hybernate issue,meaning that using those functions with a 5790 with 8800M GTX will cause an error,followed by reboot...

 

Ah, there is the meat -- sleep or hibernate or both? Above it sounded like sleep only, but now hibernate is being brought into it. (And really, if suspend to disk works, you woudl think suspend to RAM works, so it would suggest problems with both.)

Still, if its just Sleep, then I couldn't care less.. I've never once used it. But hibernate, now, thats something I'm sure we all live on. Why power off when you can hibernate?

So that would be annoying.

Still, as long as I can keep my case/chassis I'm relatively agreeable, but losing Sleep alone would be me satisfied.

jeff

 

I don't know how many of you had a 9860 (I bought a 8790 but I remember this incident well after I bought mine), but it had to have a motherboard upgrade to go from the 7800 to the 7900 and the 7950, so this is normal for Sager.

Just trying to make everyone feel a lil bit better from a historical point of view.

 

Clevo tries to foresee the future when they make their innovative designs.... but its never fool-proof. Constraints of new technology can really never be forecasted accurately... just sufficiently...

 

I've just checked with my conscience, feel free to let them send me one to test it out for them

Nox

 

I normally shut down though hibernate is faster to switch on. But when I switch on I would loose the choice of using Vista or Sabayon nd it would leap into probably the wrong OS every time...

Also I can see a few people with SSD's may cry if the loose 4GB of space...

Nox

 

Ok, so you say the 2090 is a no go for the 8800 GTX, but if Alienware uses the same ODM as Sager (Clevo), how in the world are they offering a 15.4" laptop with the 8800 GTX in it? I asked the same question of the guys at PC Torque about a 15.4" lappy with the 8800, and they said they would be able to offer it. I'm confused, so what gives?

 

I disagree. I can understand the need for a new motherboard for a quad-core processor, since it dissipates more power. However, 8800 actually consumes less power than 7950, uses the same signaling protocols and the chips are the same architecture as 8700 - even the drivers are the same. In addition, Clevo probably knew about 8800 well in advance of it being made public. It seems hard to believe that the 9261 motherboard, which is only 2-3 months old, could not have been designed to accept the 8800.

 

Nice system. However, I am not so sure pre-ordering is a good idea since Clevo has to produce a revised motherboard. It seems to me that estimates that this can be done by late December are extremely optimistic, and that it will probably take 2-3 months before the new motherboard is available to retail customers.

 

I'm not so sure that Clevo would have known about the incompatibility of the 8800 with the 9261 motherboard at the time they made their revisions to the board to accomodate the new quadcores. From what little I can glean, I suspect that Nvidia made an incompatible change in the MXM specs in November, which was after Clevo had released the revised motherboard. I've posted my speculations here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=189523&page=10 .

 

yae i agree its not like the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing the 8800's have been a project for 6 months now, and the builders of the mobo's know what s going on. if they didnt, nothing would work. so they all have specifications to build off of. u have one lappy with three mobo's in 3 months 9260, 9261, and now what 9262 im just sick to my stomich i still have 2 days of the 15 day trial and i dont know if i should send it back or wait a week and have to pay for a new mobo what do u guys think i should do?

 

Send it back now. The worst you'll have to deal with is the anticipation of waiting for the new one to arrive, after which you'll get to savor the joy of having the 8800; if you don't, however, then you'll always be eaten up with regret that you didn't do it when you had the chance, even if you ultimately never go through with paying for the motherboard upgrade.

 

I agree with Shyster, send the system back, and then order a new one when the new version is available

 

We need to connect the dots here. I have the S3 problem ever since one of the more recent drivers and I obviously don't have a 8800m. The whole "motherboard tweaking" thing is flat-out false. I support Clevo's claim that the m570ru is upgradeable. Sager, or whomever, has done bull**** tests or is simply scamming us. Seriously now, "motherboard tweaking" is a little vague, don't you think?

 

Some have asked for a bit more detail on why the 8800M requires a motherboard modification.

As an initial matter the motherboard of a desktop and a notebook computer are complete different in design. Notebooks have much tighter space constraints and this has implications for design, heat dispersal, and signal interference. As an example, a VGA card in a standard desktop has a monitor output directly on the card, but in the case of a laptop the card output has to pass through the motherboard and the LCD monitor itself has to pass through the notebook design for power saving controls and other.

In the case of the 8800M, prior cards including the 8700M were done with a design kit that allowed ODMs to design and build the card modules with the GPU chips that supported 2 protocols to communicate to the LCD panels -- LVDS & EDID. However with the 8800M things have changed a bit, nVIDIA decided that they would pre-build the modules and ship them to ODMs for final customization, and only the EDID protocol is supported by these modules. This limits Clevo’s ability to make software changes for compatibility. Both nVIDIA and Clevo are doing their best to find ways to get around all the speed bumps with software fixes, but there are just some resources that must be adjusted by hardware rework due to this protocol change.

 

Ya I know, me too. I'm actually pretty happy with what I have now but I do wish there were true standards and upgrade paths in the notebook market. Nvidia is try to accomplish this but it's not quite working yet.

 

Justin can you tap your sources and see if the new motherboard revision will incorporate changes that will allow the notebook to use the new 'Petryn' intel chips? I.e. the 45nm chips? Q9450, Q9550 etc. Or can you ask if the new chips will work 'as is'?

I would very much appreciate it.

Wu

 

The 15.4" Alienware is being built from the ground up specifically to hold the 8800m. It isn't an existing system that they will be squeezing the card into.

 

you will need another new motherboard when those new processor come out

 

Thanks for the info man, but I'll hold out for the 'official' word.

 

Ok, so this would mean Alienware is, at least for this system, moving away from Clevo as an ODM and designing the whole thing themselves. Thanks for the clarification

 

Alienware contracts through ODM's to make notebooks. Armina? is their newest 'whipping boy' They may have some input but I wouldn't classify Alienware/Dell as 'designing' the whole thing themselves.

 

Nice I had just bought the D901C from xoticpc.com ... got it around the 4th of this month, I pretty much bought it with the impression I would be able to upgrade to the dual 8800Ms ... what a fool I was it seems.

Guess I have to change my signature now ... yup the joke sure is on me.

 

if it makes you feel better, owners of the previous generation of the clevo D900, like myself, wen't through the same thing.

we all felt like fools.