Sager 8800 Update

"I would like to see if the X205 can be upgraded to the options that Sager is offering, I doubt it."

Just ask them. Actually you can buy one with 8600M GT, or 8700MGT or now 8600M GT in SLI. If you bought one with a 8600GT and now want to put a 8600M GT in SLI you can send it to have your mobo changed. Also you can upgrade your CPU (i don't know if a mobo change is required for that). Basically it is upgradeable by your definition to every single configuration option posted on their site. But they don't use the word upgradeable becouse in the Industry that word carries more weight then that. The kind of weight that we expect from Clevo when MXMIV, PCI-Express etc etc are being touted around.

Trance

 

What are you complaining about, you don't even own a 9260/9261. Please stop fueling this nonsense. You call $200 - maybe $500 probably not given Sager has said they will give a deal on) heafty premium?

 

You can put 8700 GT in the 9260. So I guess your argument about the 9260 not being upgradable is incorrect.

 

Argh:

Can you please show me where “user upgradeable” was ever used in any Sager ads?

Same things has happened with the units before where users just assumed that it’s “user upgradeable” where it was never advertised that way.

 

^^^^^

Agree

 

Anyway now we all know that we have to change the motherboard to every new videocard/processor...

And i tough that its was like a desktop... user upgradable

 

I think you all should just be glad that you have easy access to the VGA modules with the Clevo designs, for any service needs you can do it yourself. look at the others even if the VGA is modular you still have to take the unit fully apart just to get to it for home service or send it in.

Don’t take things for granted, next thing you know the industry may just go backwards and start mounting the VGA on to the motherboard again.

 

Tenchi is right, they did not say it is User Upgradable

 

The only place I have seen "user upgradable" is when you are selecting a video card.

http://www.xoticpc.com/xotic-sager-...l-ship-before-1019-p-1932.html?wconfigure=yes

Now with that said, there is nothing wrong with that. It means the user CAN upgrade the video card. It's not Clevo's fault if all video cards that come out afterwards are not compatible with the system. The user would have been able to upgrade to the new card but the manufacturer of the card is preventing them from doing so by making it incompatible.

How is Clevo supposed to see into the future and predict what nVidia is doing with all of its future cards when it designs its notebooks?

 

It just say's upgradable not user upgradable.

 

With all due respect CFFred, you are acting as you if were a representative of Sager or Clevo. The upgradebility was always primarily about 8800 upgrade, as it was widely known that 8700 cards are not up to par with 7950. What you are saying is that we, as customers, should know that the word "upgrade" means "replace your motherboard first" even though that is not its accepted meaning. You are further saying that because MMX technology is new, we should expect it not to serve for the purpose it was intended, that is, as a video card standard. Finally, because DX10 is new it should not work properly or bring the advantages that Microsoft is claiming. And all this should be known and understood even though it was never explained as such by Clevo or nVidia. I do not think this is a resonable position to take.

 

Where? where? hehehe

 

AHH, what they hell was I looking at, sorry.

 

We have chosen to list the words "user upgradeable" in our product configurator after the video card title to only state these video cards can be swapped out by the end user themselves if they wish to change between the cards offered. Also so users know they are not soldered on the motherboard.

If we have ever been questioned about this over the telephone or email this is the same response given. We do not advertise in anyway that it is "user upgradeable" to future cards.

 

Well IMHO everyone that has ever researched MXM technology mainly with Ice Tea and his website, knows that it is not as cut and dry as Nvidia makes it out to be, so I guess that everyone should be blaming Nvidia not Clevo or Sager.

I am glad that Sager is giving us options other than just turning there back on us.

 

hehe got you there justin...

 

U guys are really just wasting ur time complaining. U should be happy that at least Sager/Clevo are allowing us to upgrade the GPU (even if we have 2 replace the mobo) after purchase. Many otehr laptop companies consider it to be voiding the warranty if u do as so. Clevo does not have control over the specs of the 8800GTX or its design, Nividia does. So if u have to upgrade to a new mobo, its not tehir fault. U have to pay a max. of $1000. So what? If u want it then get it. Its not going 2 come free. Anyways, thats what u have to pay if u have to best of techonolgy. if not, then stop complaining and stick w/ ur current 9261. And even in desktops, many people have to upraged mobo in a custom rig from time to tome.

 

Thanks for clearing that up, Justin. Perhaps you could change the phrase to something else or perhaps make the phrase a hyperlink and have a popup window appear with what you said in the post above. This way people are more clear about what it means.

 

^^We will certainly look into it....

EDIT - Had our web admin add some information to the "Video Card" Category link about this in our configurator.

 

Wow, how long can this go on? It is not like any one ever said that the 8800 would work in this laptop. It is a shame that Nvidia can change a standard on whim and not give the manufactures enough advance warning to react in a better way. Under the circumstances it seems that they are reacting with grace to this matter. But in the end it is us the user and the resellers that suffer the most. I am not happy with the situation but this is how it goes in the high tech world of computing it is not the first time and it won't be the last time.

 

People shouldnt be getting into this much of a hissy-fit over the issue. Sure, I was looking forward to the upgrade, but I'm not about to get irate over it just because of some ephemeral pseudo-promise that was never really even defined, not being fulfilled. It may've burst my bubble, but its not exactly ruining my day.

So chill out people. By the time it makes any sense to upgrade from what's already a top-end system, it may be time for some of us that their warranties need to be invoked. An RMA refund a year after purchase allows for some shiny new additions! Mind you, I'm not saying to throw your 9260's down a flight of stairs. You'll probably break the floor it hits.

 

Agreed, particularly since Nvidia seems to have sprung this little idea without any fair warning (at least, that's how it appears to me; I'd be happy to have anyone correct my perceptions).

 

Sorry, you are not having a honest conversation Fred. You know that I don't see that Clevo is complying with the word Upgradable to the extent that the markting leads people to think. You just want to say that we are all unreasonable. Read again what I've wrote:

I wrote too:

"Basically it is upgradeable by your definition to every single configuration option posted on their site"

But not for me along the lines with what is touted with MXM and PCI-Express on leaflets pictures and so on.

Definition of upgradeability:

"to extend the usefulness of (as a device)" - A box is not a device if you know what I mean. If you need to change the motherboard the only thing left to change is the BOX.

"To replace (a hardware device) with one that provides better performance." This is not the case at hand as performance is not increased by replacing the motherboard.

"A hardware device that provides greater performance than an earlier model." - Not the case of replacing this motherboard swap.

"the degree to which a computer may have its specifications improved by the addition or replacement of components" - The motherboard is not a component in the strict sense of the word. For instance is Windows Visa Core a component? Of course common sense says it is not.

"(Or "upgradeability") How easily upgrades to a system can be produced and applied. E.g. "Buying a PC with more PCI slots gives you increased upgradeability." - Actually that is what MXM and PCI-Express are supposed to do. Somehow it does not.

"(Or "upgradeability") How easily upgrades to a system can be produced and applied."

Anyway I think I made my point, people can disagree if they want. But I can tell you that business can't just say sh* to the market without facing consequences. I'm no direct Customer of NVIDIA, Clevo is (NVIDIA is a Clevo Supplier).

Or at least stop using MXMIV and PCI-Express in the front lines (increased upgradability amongst other lesser things). Just use the word Configurable. But that I know is a bummer as it would put these laptop side by side with every other laptop in the market within this context (loosing the edge in upgradability that in practical terms never had).

Stay cool,

Trance
PS: I know Fred that you are one that believes that people just buy in what they want. I wonder why companies spend millions on Marketing then. You seam to be one of the people that go to a restaurant, check on a beutifully put Menu stating Fresh Fish, you may eat it and then leave very content just becouse in the end it was your decision to eat it right? After all it was Fresh Fish, but they did not mention that the Fish was Fresh Last Week. By the way the only reason I'm arguing my point with you is that you seam to be coming from the Sales Departament point of view rather then the client (may be not).

 

Fish from last week, man that would definatly give you the s h i t s for a couple days. LOL

Honestly, I like Sager, they sold me a solid unit that has performed to the level that they advertised.

They are offering us an upgrade path to future and current technology, even though some people would like this process to be different it is still without a doubt an upgrade. If you look at all the sour grapes that have been posting negative remarks, they don't even own the 9260/9261 machine.

I am stoked to be able to send my current system that I am completly satisfied with into Sager and get them to upgrade to the most extreme SLI GPU which is bleeding edge technology. All for a $200 MB and the cost of the GPU. I would rather do it myself, but if i cant I will live.

I look at other notebook companies, and NONE of them even come close to what Clevo/Sager is offering us. Yet we have people on these boards that feel that b/c Clevo/Sager have to upgrade the MB in our systems that they have somehow wronged everybody. Could it be better, maybe but find another company that sells this technology and upgrade path at a better price and better service, cause I have not been able to. The 8800M GTX is not really main stream yet and Sager/Clevo will be anouncing the details to upgrade on Dec 6. Man, why would anyone complain about Sager/Clevo. As far as I am concerned they are doing the best they can. And after 5 months of use my system still kicks ass

 

Damn... Couldn't have said it any better myself......

What about 8800 driver issues.....

Come on like there going to run perfect when they come out..... hell no..

Also Why wait soooo long for a laptop... Just get one and enjoy.. Its going to be outdated in a couple months anyway...

Look on the brightside... You can buy another motherboard in 6 months... And use all your existing parts... sounds pretty good to me...

Joe

 

RedBull told me they would give me wings.

I broke my leg yesterday because I couldn't fly.

It hurt.
I cried.

I'm going to start an 18 page thread and about how they lied to me and how hurt I am since I was looking forward to flying. Can anyone guess where I'm going to get my inspiration?

 

There is a big difference guys if you actually owned one of the 'old' systems that will require the mobo upgrade vs not owning one and just voicing your opinion. A lot of the owners who thought that the notebook would be upgradeable to 8800's did not expect to have to go through a mobo upgrade. The notebook just got finished with a mobo upgrade so it could use quads. Its a bit of a suprise.

Please lay off the trolling/whines. If your not affected then move on, if you are deal with it. Out.

 

Good luck ...

 

I never said they lied, neither I am complaning to Sager (my system was not bought to them). I would expect a motherboard upgrade due to all sorts of reasons (compatibility with newer CPU architetcures, improved thermal conditions, better performance, compatibility with new video card interface standards etc etc). Not due to to some screwup over an existing standard that is touted away in the marketing literature. I understand that is NVIDIA that is now imposing a new deal for the chip making now, but is up to Clevo (not even Sager or anyother reseller) to negotiate with NVIDIA in order to comply with all the options given to them in the scope of the standard (not us customers). After all they own the standard. MXMIV means something, it means that it is compatible with any card complying with this Interface, which is clearly the case of the 8800M GTX (that is what we expect when we talk about standards) ... but it does not!

But I guess that is much easier to make customers to pay for an unexplicable business move while increasing the total cost of ownership of a system that is supposed to be lower then others (it was supposed to be have higher upgradability to lower the costs otherwise there is no benefit), but is actually increasing every every couple of months.

Every single argument against mine basically justifies this screwup with some other benefit that misses the point really. IMHO that is not clear form of argumentation. Actually it is a form of argumentation very typical in sales, something I would not expect from customers.

Anyway, I'm glad you are all quite happy (if not thrilled) with that. I guess there is nothing we can do besides upgrading to DELL (totally replace a component in my work life) as they even manage to get NVIDIA to build special cards for their notebooks (cinical joke, I will not at least not for now).

The d901c is still a good barebone without any question, and as such by definition you can build it in peaces. But this alone is not a counter argument if you know what I mean.

Stay cool,

Trance
PS: Pressure

 

What I still didn't understand is: does a single 8800 need a new mobo or not?

 

I am suprized by the hostility shown in this thread; I will try to put my point of view accross one more time and that will be my final contribution to this thread.

I've looked up the MXM specification on the nVidia site and thanks to that and Justin's explanation I understand what the technical problem is. This new spec, and probably an early version of the chip itself, would have been available to Clevo at least a month or two before 8800 was released, which means they would have known at that time that the upgrade would require a new motherboard. This was never made public; how many people would have bought the 9261 during September - October if it was made clear that it would not work with 8800 - I would guess at least 50% would have waited.

It is true that an explicit promise that 8800 would work in 9261 was never made; however MXM was prominently featured in all the specs and advertising, and the only point of that was to imply that a future upgrade would be possible.

 

Check this OUT. This is from CLEVO web site :
http://www.clevo.com.tw/en/products/prodinfo_2.asp?productid=19

The 8800M is in the list of supported Video Cards. As far as I understand they are saying that the D901C is capable of support the 8800M as it is. They do not mentioned anything about replacing the MOBO on the first D901C models in order to be able to use the 8800M.

Any thoughts?

nVIDIA® GeForce® 8800M GTX,
MXM-IV Modular
512MB GDDRIII Video RAM on board, support PCI-E*16
MS DirectX® 10 compatible
HDCP support

 

Not sure where your getting the hostility thing from. Do you own a 9260/9261? If not why do you care? I am not trying to be rude just asking. And this goes out to all the people that are giving there 2 cents on this. If you dont own this machine and it does not effect you, why do you care. If you owned one of these machines, I am sure you would understand why I am not upset about this.

We should all wait to see what Clevo/Sager is going to offer as far as a upgrade path. And everyone knew the 8800M GTX was right around the corner so if you bought your machine you fully expected to have to purchase the cards, so you have to get a new mobo at a deal, boo hooo

The future upgrade is possible!

 

This news is sad, how sad it is depends on the cost of the upgrade.

I believe I am going to be confertable wiht ye olde 7950gtx.

hey, at least it runs crysis.

 

Yes I do but I am in the process of returning it. However that is not really relevant, the reason I am going on about this is because until customers start demanding better, companies are going to continue to treat us like cash cows.

 

This has been on their site for a couple of months now. At least that I know of. I have been curious about this myself.

 

My machine is a D901C and it does not support the quad CPU.

 

Return it then and stop complaining, we have absolutly no details on this upgrade until Dec 6/07. You don't even know what they are going to offer us as a upgrade path! But yet everyone is out in full force acting as if Clevo/Sager made a specific PROMISE to you when you bought your machine. On the Sager site not once did they ever say that you can upgrade to the 8800M GTX, never. Yet they are offering us a upgrade path to get the 8800M GTX in SLI.

Actually we were all warned that there was no confirmation ever that the 8800M GTX would work on our machines from the day that the 9260 was released in June. Show me where you were mislead into thinking that the 9260/9261 was upgradable to the 8800M GTX without any other upgrades.

Sager does not even have to provide a upgrade to current owners, if they were such an evil company they could just tell us all that there is no way to upgrade and you have to buy a new model.

 

I'm a owner and I don't understand your position CRFfred but at least I respect it as a free person.

What I don't understand in your atitude towards the people that don't agree with you is simple. Clevo states that the d901c supports the MXMIV interface from the start, meaning that it supports out of the box any MXMIV video card offered for their notebooks (otherwise the statement technically means next to nothing really for the common person). A new MXMIV video card gets into the market that in practice does not work precisely in this context and no other, period. Don't people have the right to complain?

Even thought no direct promisses where made regarding future cards, the stated support implicitely says so. I don't care if a motherboard upgrade costs $50 or a $1000, there is a customer cost in not doing so. There is a strong basis for the complain if that is the case, especially those that were waiting for this cards to make the upgrade.

Honestly I don't understand where you coming from CFRfred.

For me this thread is not useful anymore. Within the realm of MXMIV the upgrade should be just a swap of cards, that is what it implies and that is not what we are getting, period.

Sorry Justin for using your thread, only now I noticed that it was started by you. I mean no business harm and what I write is not directed to anyone in particular but the barebone maker that indeed should deal with the issue with NVIDIA not with the resellers or at the expense of their customers.

Trance
PS: As I've stated before, I'll wait for the next revision supporting the Penryn Architecture becouse for sure there will be more revisions coming out. I didn't wanted to write it so clearly for obvious reasons but some people just can't held telling others to "shut up" and that I cannot take in.

 

11/30/2007 Upgrade Info

Upgrading Sager NP9260/1 (D901C) & NP5790/1 (M570RU) to new nVIDIA GeForce 8800M GTX w/512MB

Due to specification changes out of Sager’s Control, the Sager NP9260/NP9261 will require a motherboard swap out to the updated Revision V6.x motherboard to correctly support the new nVIDIA® GeForce™ 8800M GTX w/512MB. The motherboard version number can be located on the bottom memory socket. The Sager NP5790/NP5791 has three different upgrade options available*.

For NP9260/NP9261/NP5790/NP5791 users wishing to purchase the nVIDIA® GeForce™ 8800M GTX w/512MB, Sager will perform the necessary motherboard swap out and install the card. Shipping and handling charges to and from Sager will be the responsibility of the customer. Sager will not be responsible for any case scratches or paint chipping that may occur during the modification. Please Contact the Sager Technical Support department for detailed information.

The upgrade/swap out kit will be available beginning Jan 15th, 2008. For Sager brand Clevo D901C/M570RU customers the swap out process will take 5 business days. Non-Sager branded Clevo D901C/M570RU units will require 10 to 15 business days. Rush service available call for details.

For Sager Branded Clevo D901C / M570RU customers, the nVIDIA® GeForce™ 8800M GTX w/512MB GPU and motherboard will receive a new 1 year warranty or the remaining extended warranty if longer than 1 year remaining; the rest of the unit warranty (or extended warranty if previously purchased by customer) remains as is.

Non Sager branded Clevo D901C / M570RU units will have 90 day warranty for all replaced parts. Sager is not responsible for the terms and conditions of any other warranties on Non-Sager Branded units, and you should review those terms to determine whether Sager service on such units will void other warranties.

For a limited time (Jan 15th, 2008 through June 30th 2008), Sager will offer the upgrade packages at a discounted rate.

Sager NP9260/NP9261 (Clevo D901C):
• Price good between Jan 15th’08 through June 30th’08
• New revision D06 (Ver. 6.x) motherboard
• 1x nVIDIA® GeForce™ 8800M GTX w/512MB Card
• Labor included
• $899.00 after instant $200.00 off for Sager Branded customers
• $1099.00 Non-Sager Branded systems

$745.00 for additional nVIDIA® GeForce™ 8800M GTX w/512MB Card (SLi Driver pending)


Sager NP5790/NP5791 (Clevo M570RU):

Option 1: Full swap out package
• Price good between Jan 15th’08 through June 30th’08
• New nVIDIA® GeForce™ 8800M GTX w/512MB
• New Motherboard
• Labor included
• $899.00 after instant $200.00 off for Sager Branded customers
• $1099.00 Non-Sager Branded systems

Option 2*: Send in to Sager for Motherboard Rework
• Available Jan 15th’08
• New nVIDIA® GeForce™ 8800M GTX w/512MB
• Sager will perform motherboard Rework needed
• $745.00 Sager Branded Systems FREE Labor Included
• $845.00 ($745.00 +$100.00 labor) for non Sager Branded systems

Option 3*: Pre-condition User self upgrade
• Available Jan 15th’08
• New nVIDIA® GeForce™ 8800M GTX w/512MB
• User understands that the system will have unable to wake from suspend to ram (S3) aka: Suspend / Sleep mode issues.
• $745.00





* NOTE: NP579x Option 2 & Option 3 may or may not be available depending on final testing results from Clevo.

 

An the brand new notebooks? Will they be shipped in the end of December as promised?

 

New systems will ship first (end of Dec.) before upgrade packages to start around Jan’15th 08

 

woah expensive for SLI user... good thing nobody had the 7950 when i ask for it... haha... maybe god love me

 

Thanks for the update Justin.

What kind of price bump are we looking at going from the 8700m GT to the 8800M GTX in the case of a new NP5791?

Also what about the 8800M GTS? It's like the Grendel of mobile cards; everyone knows it's there but nobody wants to even mention it.

 

What is the difference between a motherboard Rework and a motherboard swap?
cuz the 2nd option for the 5790 says it does a mobo Rework and includes a 8800m GTX.

 

Satopia, we will not have a update on this until 12/6. No info on the GTS at this time.

FriscoPowers, The "Rework" option is when they will modify the existing motherboard (as long as this is able to be done, final testing has yet to be completed). The other option is a complete new motherboard.

 

No one ever promised that the 8800M GTX would work. We were all warned that it might not.

 

Can anyone confirm..

Is Hibernate (suspend to disk) the same problem, or is this only 'sleep' (suspend to RAM)?

ie: I only use hibernate... I'm very interested in the answer

jeff

ie: sleep is S3, hibernate is S4; no one has commented if S4 is impacted?

 

According to Frank @ Sager the new MB does not support SLI for the 9260/9261, so as of yet there is no support for SLI 8800M GTX. This might change by Jan/08.

The new MB does not support the new 45nm CPU, and he said don't expect it too.

I am now officially disappointed, no SLI and no 45nm support. Hopefully this will change.

And if you have a custom paint job, I would think twice before sending it to Sager.

So all of us with SLI 7950 GTX's this upgrade as of right now is not worth it cause the 8800M GTX is only a bit better than the SLI 7950 GTX.

I guess the 9260/9261 will have its king of the laptops challenged by the 5790 seeing that we have no advantage over this model other than the CPU. I would not buy the 9261 if I had a choice right now, I would definetly go for the 5790, better battery life, weighs less, and IMHO very close to the same performance with the 8800M GTX.