Sager How do you decide what model to pick for Gaming

Hi I just recently decided to purchase a sager for heavy gaming use and have around a $2500 budget. I'm looking at 17" model and buying it thru xotic.
I'm looking at getting a 4800 processor and a gtx 780m graphic card and 16gb of ram. These are just my preliminary hardware choices and I could change my mind if needed. I decided against an alienware because of conflicting reports of them breaking down alot and didn't wanna take a chance on one.I've heard good things about the sager.
So looking at the xotic page there are about 15 different models of sagers to chose from. Is there a big difference between each model or does each one just have a different hardware setup? It's so confusing trying to compare each model.
Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

 

480m, that's getting a little retro, 780m perhaps?

Each model is different by weight, screen size and gpu power.

 

Yeah a 480m wouldn't cut it now. I fixed my typo.
I didn't know if the higher the model number meant the more powerful/newer the laptop or better webcam or different ports.
Thanks for the reply. I'll keep on researching.

 

I got the NP8275, with those specs. Model differences are small. In 17" the choices are, sli, 3D, 120Hz display (those are in one model), or lighted touchpad or not. I went without the lighted touchpad, because of looks, but sometimes I wish it had a light when I use it in total darkness without a mouse. I also skipped the sli, 3D, and 120Hz display. The other models are different sizes of displays, or are not meant for serious gaming.

 

If you're not doing SLI or 3D (120hz) then you should narrow it down to the NP8275 and NP8295. Those two can support the same hardware however the chassis looks different. The 8295 has more of a gamers look and the 8275 more of a professional look. That decision comes down to what your preference is. They also make "S" variants of the same models which have a better starting configuration at a slightly lower price compared to the non "S" configured the same.

 

Thank you all for replying so quick. I will look at either the NP8275 or NP8295. I am not going dual video cards or 3d and looking at the NP9xxx that is what it offers. Thanks for helping to explain it all.

 

Feel free to post your final specs here before ordering if you want a check over them.

 

One more question what is the build quality of the sager? I've read anything from the hinges break a lot to it holds up fine. Right now I've got a Qosmio x875. It's pretty much all plastic except for the sides and hinges having aluminum on them. Is the sager close to the same thing? Looking at pictures online it's kind of hard to tell the build quality. I've read the Alienware has top notch build quality. How close behind is the sager NP8295. Thanks

 

I spent WAY more hours than i should have on mine... i ended up going with the np8265. the selling features were, upgrade able video card, backlit keyboard. professional looking. (didn't have that stupid mouse pad design...) and I believe it had the lightest chassis. note this is a 15.6" laptop

as far as hinges holding up etc.. my other laptop is 3 almost 4 years old (sager as well) zero hinge defects well there's literally nothing wrong with it. i was just ready for new

 

Sager build quality is great and considered better the Alienware by many people. When you're looking at their higher end models like these you wont be disappointed.

 

Also what kind of sound card is included in the NP8295? All I can find out is below. Which doesn't really say what it is as I thought Sound Blaster X-FI MB 3 was just software. Does it have a sound blaster sound card in it?

High Definition audio interface
S/PDIF digital output
1 Built-in Microphone
2 Built-in Speakers made by Onkyo
1 Built-in Sub-woofer made by Onkyo
External 7.1CH audio output supported by headphone, microphone, S/PDIF and Line-in jack
Sound Blaster X-FI® MB 3

 

It's a realtek audio codec with creative software.

 

Correction on the bling vs. non-bling models. It's the 8275 that has the professional non-bling look.

 

Opps, I'll go back and correct that to avoid any further confusion, thanks for pointing it out

 

I have a question on which screen to pick. I'm not sure if here is the place to ask it or if I should also post it in a hardware area of the forum. I'm not sure which of the 3 screens to pick.
17.3" FHD 16:9 "Matte Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Anti-Glare Screen (1920x1080) (SKU - SSC002)
17.3" FHD 16:9 "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Glossy Sager Screen w/ 90% NTSC Color Gamut (1920x1080) (SKU - SSC010)
17.3" FHD 16:9 "Matte Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Anti-Glare Screen w/ 72% NTSC Color Gamut (1920x1080)

Doing a little research I believe matte vs glossy is a personal choice. It's down to the first two choices as the third is a little too pricy for me. I'm not sure if I'll see any advantage of the second choice the glossy 90% Gamut. As the laptop will be used mostly for general things & gaming. No photoshop or video editing. I'm going to have the laptop mostly setup in my living room which is brightly lit during the day with sunlight. During the night It's moderately lit. I've only had glossy screens and haven't had any problems with them. If I do pick the glossy 90% glossy I'm sure I'm going to need to pay for the new monitor calibration. Also debating if the extra $35 is worth paying for the dead pixel service.
So if anybody has any advice or has used either screen I'd appreciate it. Thanks

 

Still the np8925 you are looking at?

 

Yes. I think this is my last roadblock. Well besides trying to figure out what a msata drive is and If I really need one or not.

 

An msata is like a 2.5" ssd just smaller.

For your use you don't need to spend extra on the high gamut screen.

 

This is nothing short of ridiculous.

@OP: On a scale from 1-10 the Sager models I've seen (and I've had the misfortune of owning one, check thread in sig for review) if you don't get a lemon you're a 6/10 at best if you subjectively love its looks. I would say it's mid-way in terms of sturdiness and mediocre in terms of materials and finish.

There's a bigger profit margin for resellers with Sagers because there's greater room for tinkering with specs, so they'll try to make it sound like the "super secret underground customizable brand" if they suspect you're a total rookie, and if you've been around the forum for a while after tons of complaints and after you ride an incidental wave of mass discontent against Sager, some of those resellers will admit that "well you get what you pay for, that's what you save money on when you buy Sager..etc".

If you're on a budget that necessitates the highest possible specs, and barebone everything else, and you plan on almost never moving it, then go for the Sager and bear with the horrendous support (AW is second to none).

With 2500 USD I don't see why you shouldn't get an AW, or an MSI, or an Asus. Better support, better build quality, better binned components.

Remember, the AW complaints you see are "first tier complaints", like when you go to a Mercedes dealership and see broken Coupes, still better than your local redneck junkyard and with a much lower incidence of issues.

I'm really stumped by Hutsady's magnificent remark that "Sager is considered better built than AW by many people". The correct and truthful characterization of Sager specially by someone who is an official retailer is: "Their last series had a lot of peripheral quality issues, the most recent one has improved somewhat".

Inb4 the usual "All brands have issues go check X or Y forum". God sometimes it's like people never learn.

 

Well the current crop of alienwares are not up to much tweaking :/ Stock they are ok but there have been firmware issues.

I don't really see my p570wm as a junk yard option :/

 

You're a computer professional with not only experience but access to best promo products, spare parts ...etc. When a guy with 8 posts asks for advice the best assumption is that it's someone lacking your advantages and technical expertise, who just wants a nice shiny gaming laptop that won't cause too much of a headache and comes with nice peripherals (mainstream brands selling point).

I'm an average gamer and I found the keyboard to be an utter failure on the P170EM series, my experience being one of many still documented on this forum with nice colorful pie charts. The much-touted Onkyo speakers are easily the worst speakers I have ever heard on not only computers but even other consumer electronics, that complaint -again- was shared by many, sometimes 10-15 unique threads a week. All lemons? Sager has to work long and hard to improve their "gimmicky peripherals" image and resellers ought to cooperate with the client base to apply that kind of pressure, instead of ground-hog-daying every tick-tock cycle and parroting vague conventional wisdoms about Sager and how they're just "understated niche customizable machines of durability".

You can't tell me the last series was one of the successful and comparatively hitch-free productions by Sager? Specially not with their MOBO's switchable gfx settings that crippled AMD GCN users. Frankly the only thing that carried the experience for me was the friendly and decent support I got from my reseller.

My opinion is that @2500 USD for the specs the OP wants any other brand that offers those specs is a better option than Sager, specially that most offer multiple screen options now, so Sager lost perhaps its final "customizability" selling point with that, and is just "much less premium for marginally less money" at this point.

 

All I can talk on is my experience here and I will share it when asked. We do offer both Sager and Alienware computers as well as Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, I could have as easily told him to get an Alienware instead. But because of my experience working years with Xotic I will say what I have seen and read and stand behind it. It has nothing to do with profit margin, regardless of which model is sold there is very little margin anyway.

Having personally held and used very single Sager model available over the last 4yrs and the last two gen of Alienware, as well as all the Asus and MSI models within the last 4yrs I think I'm pretty qualified to express my opinion when asked about build quality.

Unless you personally have had support for notebooks from AW, Asus, MSI, Sager you cant say which have better build qualities or better support. I will agree AW home service is nice and again I could have said get one of those because of that.
You also later mention in your following post "Frankly the only thing that carried the experience for me was the friendly and decent support I got from my reseller." which I agree with 100%, that what also makes Sager computers nice because you get that support and it very personalized support as most Sager/Clevo resellers are smaller companies and you get that one on one help. Not only after but before the purchase.

 

Being a plastic chassis is not necessarily a bad thing too. It makes a machine lighter reducing things like fall damage along with being portable.

 

I am not really up on tech and I know some of my questions or even most of mine are noob questions. I thank you for your patience.
What I basically want is a pretty good gaming laptop with good build quality for $2500 that won't cause a headache for me. Right now my personal time is hectic especially with two younger children. So my gaming is done say between midnight till 2am.
I'm just confused as I know Alienware is overpriced but, if it means it's a better build quality and less break downs I'll go for it. Some people are saying the sager has really good build quality others say it isn't so good. I've never personally seen one so all I can go by is internet pictures and other people's personal experience. I know every brand has lemons.
I do appreciate everybody taking time to help me with my decision.

 

Keep your options open and don't rush. Each brand is a balance of price, performance, quality and ease of upgrading.

 

Devilman do yourself a favor and do a quick skim of the threads on this forum starting August 2012 to around March 2013 when the last series was released, compare that to the same time bracket on the AW forum and judge for yourself. My mistake was that I thought "these glitches would never happen to me" and they did, and I allowed myself to be talked into believing all brands are the same with a different American H.Q that puts a label on it. Everything sounded wishy-washy and vague like it must sound to you now, but heed my call, AW is not overpriced in the sense that you can get the SSD or RAMs aftermarket, and the price is negotiable through their sales rep. The build quality is immeasurably better and the Peripherals, I can't stress this enough. The same fence-sitters (either because they don't know enough or because they have a vested interest) will tell you that all laptop speakers will have bad bass, but the Sager speakers are BAD, like gimmicky bad, whereas the AW or MSI speakers are up there in the best bracket. The keyboard is another thing. The screen depends on which bin you get, and even the "personal customized sales service" is a bull**** phrase that really depends on which company and which specific rep you get. Check the reseller feedback thread and see the woes some people went through, and no that's NOT the same as AW service at its very worst.

Notice how Hutsady didn't defend his earlier bold proclamation that "many people find Sager of superior build quality to AW". He didn't because if I issue a challenge right here and now of finding more than a couple of people on the SAGER forum to agree with Hutsady, we wouldn't short of the possibility of trolls or fundamentalist fanatic Sager fanboys (Not many of those). Put in a couple of extra hundred bucks and have the premium white collar option with the good finish, expensive materials, high-end peripherals and better integrated performance and aftersale service, not to mention bragging rights.

P.S: You better not get even close to Sager if you're considering the (cheaper but comparable) AMD GPU option, because thanks to the geniuses at Sager, the switchable graphics never worked correctly so depending on which games you play you might get slight to moderate throttling, they've been working on that all last year. The AW platforms don't have that deficiency so you'll save money on the GPU instead of getting the pricier Nvidia.

 

I love my Sager. That's all I know. I had an Asus G75 prior and while the Asus appeared to have a good build a lot of it was just flash (sometimes style and build quality get lumped together). I think Sager has great build quality, just my opinion.

I researched a lot before I bought my Sager and of course I came across some fair reviews but for the most part (at least from what I have observed) Sager's have a solid reputation. I chose a Sager because of the options and the freedom to make modifications and upgrades. To each their own. Just do a lot of research and don't take one opinion as gospel, no matter how loud.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

Could you expand on that please? It "appeared" to have good build but .... what? The next sentence was "style and build quality are lumped together", which I assume is a fantastic thing. You sounded like you were saying the Asus was good. Reason I'm asking is because apart from seeing/touching Asus' gaming line since inception, I know two guy who currently own it (one for 1.5 years and one for 3 months) and the machines appear and function like a dream. As a matter of fact if the same line/style is there in another year or so that will be my next upgrade because I much prefer the Asus' looks to the latest AW series.

Also, "I love my Sager", much like "I love my wife" doesn't say much about the Sager nor the wife.

All it would it take is one glance at the interior of an Asus or AW then a Sager to see where the extra money went, and those in the business know what I'm talking about:



Let me explain what this picture shows: As opposed to the fans/grills/heatsinks on the Asus which are obviously manufactured and installed at a high industrial standard, the fans/heatsinks on the Sager -even if we assume they're of the same quality as opposition- do not fit as snugly and are not installed with the same precision leading to up to half a centimeter of misalignment. Seems benign enough right? Wrong. Extensive modding was tried and some aluminum foil tape to close the gaps and provide a clean path for the air to vent out of the case, was determined to be the best option. I personally gained 6-7 degrees Celsius which isn't a joke. People spend good money on high end thermal paste to save 2-3 degrees.

This is the Sager's misalignment:



Problem is, it just so happens that I live in the Middle East, an area of the world dustier than the rest, and although the Sager stays in a well filtered/ventilated room, every 2 months the GPU temperatures go from an average of 78 C to ~100 C. Why? Because as I've discovered the misalignment + aluminum foil causes the air to blow harder/closer to one end of the heatsink/grill leading to more rapid focal accumulation of static dust that builds up towards the other end faster. So I either have to live with bad alignment and venilation, or have to service my laptop at a more frequent pace, not a big deal right? Well I'm a geek who keeps a million gauges up most of the time and have no problem disassembling/cleaning/re-pasting the innards of my laptop, but not every user is that way, and even I only noticed after the fans started sounding kinda muffled. A "normal user" would probably not notice leading to shortened lifespans of the components, if not worse. It's not a deal-breaker but just illustrates what consumer vs. prosumer grade means. Even the shells of the AW and Asus are made by machines and molders of obviously newer generation, as opposed to Sager whose shells appear like they've been made with 90s industrial tech.

I can provide further examples at least from my machine having to do with speakers, keyboard ..etc. I'm talking about industrial standard of products now, engineering, design, installation...etc. AW and Asus to Sager are what Apple is to Nokia, specs notwithstanding. MSI is more like Samsung, still too plasticky. Devilman should not rely on one opinion, but at least try to vet the opinions and focus on those with some hard facts behind them.

 

I am not going to go back and forth on this poor guys thread. It was just my opinion, nothing more. I will be happy to discuss my views in greater detail but in an appropriate form

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

I would strongly recommend a SLI capable model (9380 or 9390) even if you just want one GPU (you can run the SLI models with a single GPU). Unless battery life means a lot to you, Optimus can be more trouble than it's worth. Plus an added advantage is that you have the opportunity to overclock your LCD panel, the joy of which I just recently discovered (was able to overclock mine from 60 to 100 and boy did it make a difference).

 

Yes and asus use every trick in the book to make it so you can't upgrade anything. Non standard modules, non standard firmware and soldered in CPUs with the G750 and a pain to get to parts, so not really the company to hold up as the paragon of system building.

Tape should not be causing an increase in dust build up, this is just likely a result of the airflow required to cool a high end card, a misalignment would not help lessen the build up rate.

Different climates will cause the need for servicing to vary, though a few puffs of compressed air should do the job.

 

You are showing pictures on the HM series. Can you show the problem on the SM series? No, because the issue was fixed. I don't see how this shows Sager has bad quality. It is not hard to find bad models of AW or Asus, or any manufacturer.

I have a Sager and I have compared the apparent quality to AW and Asus, and they seem equivilant. But I don't have access to the part bins used for these. I also saved a lot by choosing Sager over AW.

 

The reason I didn't look at Asus was because I owned a G73JW. During the 2 years that I owned it. Within 6 months the blu-ray player broke on me. A bit later one of the fans on it broke. Followed a bit later by the other fan. For those I just ordered the parts through the Asus store which I think was overseas and replaced them myself. Sending it back to Asus and paying for the shipping and repair costs was twice the price of the fans themselves. Next the monitor all of a sudden got horizontal lines that were just blank. Eventually it just stopped working on me. I bought a new monitor and replaced that also. And lastly the part inside the laptop that the ac adapter cord plugged into either broke itself or became dislodged from the main board.

When the computer did work it worked well. I especially liked how it vented the hot air out the back of the laptop with a vent on either side of the laptop. It did seem like it had a good build quality. I am just hesitant to buy another Asus product.

Right now I have a Qosmio x875 and it's my fault for buying it hastily and not doing research on it. Because whoever designed it so that the laptop vents all of the hot air on the right side of the laptop should be shot. Playing any kind of game shoots out hot air even with a cooling fan under it. Honestly all the hair on my right hand is gone. This thing has burnt it off lol. I've had it a year so far and nothing has gone wrong on it. It does feel like a giant slick piece of plastic which I'm not sure if I like or not.

 

The good thing is that hot air means it's cooling the components very well. The bad thing is it's on the right side which is problematic as you described.

 

Your G73JW sounds like the Toshiba Satellite I used to have. Also did not do enough research and the laptop turned out to be an absolute piece of turd. LCD failed within 6 months, then the first replacement died a week later, so now on second replacement panel. Optical driver rotor might be unbalanced since it's excessively noisy when playing discs, and finally the HDD accumulated over 2000 reallocated sectors in just 2.5 years and is going to die soon.

When I was looking for a laptop I initially only looked at the G750JH, GT70, and AW18. Quickly crossed off GT70 due to the single fan design and pathetic 180W PSU; G750JH also got axed because of the almost zero upgradeability and ridiculous overprice (more on that in a sec). Everything appeared to be good with the AW18 except the price, until I found this website and saw the loads of complaints from many unhappy owners of the current AW18 with its severely crippled BIOS that makes its performance lag behind competition. To be fair stock performance does seem to be fine, and Dell should be releasing a new BIOS soon (I think). But for something that was going to cost me $5k, I expect it to work out of the box, and not have to wait for an update or use workarounds or some other BS in order to get the most out of it (currently, even with all the workarounds the performance still isn't that great thanks to the BIOS). So the AW18 was also dropped.

I'd come across the Sager/Clevo brand a couple times during my initial search, but didn't pay much attention because I'd never heard of it before. Then when I started reading this forum more intensively, I realized a Clevo actually matched what I wanted pretty well -- a powerful gaming laptop that is upgrade-friendly, allows plenty of tweaking to get the most performance, isn't ridiculously overpriced, and has an extensive user base that can provide support when needed. After doing more research I finally pulled the trigger on a P370SM and thus far I'm quite happy with it (minus a few minor issues).

As for Asus being overpriced as I mentioned earlier, my current P370SM with following main specs cost about $3800 after a 3% cash discount:

- 4900MQ
- 780M SLI
- 16GB HyperX DDR3L 1600MHz CL9
- 840 Pro 512GB
- 90% gamut glossy LCD
- Win 7 Pro
- 3 yr warranty

The G750JH with its 4700HQ and single 780M would've cost me $3500 after a 3% discount when specc'd to a similar degree. Granted the G750JH does come with 2x128GB mSATA SSDs, but even if we knock off $200 for that, the G750JH would still cost $3300, vs $3800 for the Clevo. And for that $500, I get an extra 780M (worth more than $500 alone), a more powerful 4900MQ, and most importantly, upgradeability.

To do an apples to apples comparison, a P170SM (NP8275) with the specs I listed above + 2x 120GB Crucial m500 mSATA will cost about $2800. I don't care what anybody says, but no amount of build quality is worth $700, unless pure silver was used as the casing or something. Not to mention with Asus you lose upgradeability. AW18 is still overpriced no matter how you spin it, but at least you can haggle the price if doing phone ordering, and the 4yr extended warranty + home service effectively assures the machine will last at least 4 years if you don't abuse it. Plus they do use aluminum for the casing so I guess I could justify the price somewhat (silver would've been nice though )

 

That's a nice little trick you did there with the apples to apples, almost got me

For the OP's budget of 2.5k dollars, the Asus (I know he said he'd like to get away from the Asus but just addressing your price point) is ~2400 USD for 2x 128GB mSATA, 4700HQ, 24GB RAM, 1TB 2nd HDD, 780M ..etc. The NP8275 comparably specced is 2250 USD, and it's curious that you picked the NP8275 since Sager has other more recent 17.3" platforms, such as the 9390 which would actually be ~2350 USD, only 50-70 dollars cheaper than the Asus.

It's also curious that you chose the infamous AW18 to talk about here and not the AW17 which is their star laptop, because your specific needs required an SLI setup which the AW17 doesn't support. It's like if someone asked you for advice on an Italian super car company with the symbol of a bull, and you rattled on about how Lamborghini tractors suck and conveniently fail to mention the Aventador

If you go into the 3.5k+ stratosphere then there's a different dynamic pricing-wise going on, and that wasn't the OP's budget. I heard this "Clevo is cheaper for almost the same build quality many times. It's very series dependent of course but I've noticed that on average there's a ~150 USD difference between similarly specced AW and Clevo machines if you know how to haggle with Dell, which most people don't because they assume it's a big mainstream "fixed price" corp. In my situation as an international customer, I find 150 USD for bragging rights, more premium build and finish, better peripherals (still no one willing to comment on that ), better performance with the same components as proven over and over again, and comprehensive international warranty included in the price, simply a bargain.

P.S: Incidentally, Lamborghini tractors look bada** http://www.lamborghini-tractors.com/en-ND/

 

Picked NP-8275 because it's a non-SLI model; the G750JH is a non-SLI model, so if I were to choose the NP9380 or 9390 that would truly be a non apples-to-apples comparison. Anyhow, I'm not sure how you configured the systems, but this is what I got on XoticPC:

So for 2 systems that are 95% identical (Asus has 2x128 GB mSATA, Sager has 2x120 GB; Asus has 5400RPM HDD, Sager has 7200RPM HDD), the Asus still costs about $400 more. Not sure where you got your $150 from.

I chose the AW18 to talk about because it's the one I'm the most familiar with since I did the most research on it. I'm not too familiar with the AW17 so didn't want to spew any BS. Regardless, my original point stands: the AW18 and the 9380/9390 are the flagship systems of Alienware and Sager respectively, yet one costs about 20% more and performs at least 10% less.


Alright so now let's address your last point, which is the $3500+ class laptops. Here's the AW18 as configured on Dell's website:

For the Sager unit, I'm going with 9390-S since this is the "bling" version, and it's only appropriate since AW18 is just pure bling.

Assuming a price of $4288, the AW18 is $700 more expensive than the Sager 9390-S, and about $800 more expensive if we take the 3% discount with the Sager. Now of course this is where haggling comes in, but in order to get the price difference within $150 of the Sager, one would have to knock off at least $550 off the AW18, which is 13% of Dell's asking price. And since we're invoking haggling, it's only fair to give the 3% discount to Sager. So $3480 + $150 = $3630, which is $658 less than Dell's price of $4288, or 15%. I don't know how much Dell is willing to haggle with a customer, but looks to be a fairly steep price gap we have to close. And keep in mind that $4288 is with an instant $300 off on the AW18 and another $100 off already, so Dell may be even less willing to budge on the price.

I feel the need to emphasize that I'm not bashing the AW18, it's an attractive-looking laptop with excellent potential. Sadly, the current gen AW18 is crippled by the terrible BIOS, which simply accentuates it's painful price tag even more. And because of that, I could not in any way justify paying more for the AW18.

 

The 18 more competes with the 9570 really in weight class. Good luck matching 6 cores at 4.2-4.5ghz

 

What is tough for me to figure out about the Sager/Clevo is the build quality in general. They have so many models and all of them seem to have a different build quality. Some seem to be a cheap just plastic chassis others have a good feel to them with some aluminum on them and metal hinges. I mean I'm looking at the np8295 and customer reviews range from it working well to the thing being a piece of junk. It really seems like it's hit or miss not that they are lemons just that they have so many problems. I don't know if this is related to where they bought the laptop or if quality control in general is just bad.

If you talk to anybody that works for a boutique store they tell you the quality is better than anything including Alienware. (That line seems to be the standard when talking to them as I've heard it 3 times almostly exactly like I typed from different online retailers) If you ask people who have had a sager for awhile they say they should of gone with a different brand. Now I know a lot of searches online are going yield more negative comments than good. If you have a good machine you are going to be playing it and not writing about it online. It's just hard to get a handle on how the laptop really is in terms of build quality and the quality of the internal parts.
I was looking at a msi but that single cooling fan worries me. I don't know if I could get an Asus after the bad experience I had with them. I have a Toshiba now and am probaly going to stay away from them also. Right now it's between the sager and an Alienware. My opinion is it's either buy a sager and I'll be able to afford a couple extra upgrades but, I have the chance of getting something that is a headache to maintain or I could grab an Alienware paying more for the name but, knowing I'll generally get a solid working laptop.

 

Let me make it easy for you, and I'll make it as neutral as possible. If you're the kind of guy that when buying electronics, goes for the mid-range and the upper mid-range, then pays an extra 20 bucks (say on an electric shaver) for the one with the stylized or rubberized finish, the carbon blades (even if you're not entirely sure what that means), and open the box bit by bit to check for any goodies, then you're much better off with the AW (MSI not so sure I wouldn't immediately vouch for them). If you're the kind of wannabe blue-collar handyman that wants to squeeze every last bang for buck, is versatile with his preferences, and doesn't mind shipping stuff back and forth and negotiating with resellers a year onwards for RMAs, then go for the Clevo. The golden mantra is that the "others" are generally better than Clevo by a margin that fluctuates depending on generation, mine (EM) was a bad one. People still use the previous HM and swear by it, but they never exceeded the AW in performance, cooling, quality ..etc. Same components yielded consistently better benchmarks on AW platforms (17"). If the setup you pick happens to be a <150 USD difference between AW and Clevo go AW, if >200 USD go Clevo.

 

Due to haswell and the new gpu cooling the aw 17 and sm are pretty matched stock and tweaked.

The 9390 offers more mobile dual gpu than the 18 and the 9570 offers an option for those who value performance over weight.

I would argue a tweaker/enthusiast is better off with the 9390 over the 18 as the 9390 can use two 330w PSUs when you push the power hungry 780ms.

They are all valid options, people have bad experiences with every company, there are horror stories on the AW side of the fence.

 

Never had an HM or EM, but for the SM series running Haswell, if you look at the benchmark results over at Futuremark's website, you'll see that for the most part, Clevo machines are usually represented in the top 10 in just about everything. Yes you could argue there's sampling/selection bias and there are probably a lot more Sager/Clevos out there than Alienware, but of the results that are available, they all point to solid performance for the SM series.

So perhaps in the past with the HM and EM series that statement is indeed true, but seems to me that with the SM series that gap has been effectively eliminated.

Also, OP if you're going to spend about 2.5k on a Clevo, I very highly recommend going with Mythlogic. They are Clevo builders instead of resellers, and handle all the warranty in-house. They do cost slightly more, but when I was buying I calculated the break-even point to be right around 2.5k. I bought my P370SM from them and all they have been rock solid thus far. Extremely professional during the buying process: not one but TWO separate agents told me to not waste money on the 4930MX if I'm already buying the 4900MQ, then when the machine was built, tested and ready to ship, I suddenly changed my mind on one of the specs. They were very accommodating and took care of it without fuss. Later when I had a minor keyboard issue (a slight bulge), they sent out a replacement within 5 days and didn't give me any hassle. (although to be 100% fair, they didn't reply for 4 days and I was starting to wonder if I got ignored, turns out everything was happening behind the scenes so to speak).

 

I spent a long time looking at AW as an option. People told me about those great deals you can find. So armed with the best information, I called Dell three times. The best I could get was $100 off the website price. On the other hand I got bundle deals and discounts on the Sager. So the AW would have cost me $475 more than my $2000 Sager.

I also spent months monitoring these forums for complaints on the current model. Yes, some of the previous models had an issue with the heatsink, but no problems on the current model.

I have no regrets with my Sager np8275-s

 

Do you mean no regrets?

 

Yes... edited my post. OK, I regret staying up too late last night.

 

I'm looking at buying the sager np8295 from mythlogical. I already talked in a chat there with somebody. He was very helpful. He suggested I stay with the 4700 processor and didn't need to go for the 4800. With money saved on that was going to put it towards a msata drive. I'm just finalizing some stuff now.

Edit: Seems mythlogical is around $150 more than xoticpc with the exact same setup. Plus I gotta pay the $40 for shipping at mythlogical that's free with xoticpc

 

Yes Mythlogic is a bit more expensive because they're builders instead of resellers. The advantage to going with them is that they handle all warranty issues in-house, so you're not at the mercy of Sager for RMA. And I can tell you from first hand experience that making a warranty claim with them is painless and hassle free. Also, all Mythlogic laptops come with an unlocked BIOS if that means anything to you.

 

Has anybody bought anything from gentechpc.com? Their prices seem pretty cheap but I can't seem to find much about them.

 

You can look at reviews in the feedback section round here, they have a forum presence here.

 

I bought from lpc digital http://www.lpc-digital.com/sager-np8270-special.html