Sager NP8454 (Clevo PB51RF-G) early impression

It's actually a mobile RTX 2070. It is slower, but not by all that much. Core clocks are down by -11% boost, -14% base. In terms of Passmark scores, anyway, my overclocked RTX 2070 is very similar to a non-OCed desktop 2070. Here's a good comparison chart for more details.

 

It is indeed more of a full mobile card. But that has pretty much always been the case.

 

Till now I overclocked only RAM by XMP profiles - 2666 RAM stick for 3000Mhz.
If I will get 3200Mhz RAM sticks is it possible to get 3200Mhz at this laptop assuming that vendor says in specification that it has 3000Mhz XMP? I saw in Bios more options even 3500Mhz could be possible at least in theory.

 

Don't waste your money jumping from 3000mhz to 3200mhz.

 

As Meaker says, the fastest laptop RAM I know of, at any price, is a 3000 MT/s module.

 

There are faster modules out there but they get expensive and tricky to get working sometimes and give barely any benefit.

 

Well, I have to upgrade ram anyway(more Gb's). I planed to buy:
https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Tec..._1?keywords=3200+sodimm&qid=1570392548&sr=8-1
So I thought maybe it is possible to overclocked HyperX to 3500Mhz or at least stay at 3200Mhz. I just wondering if laptop allows it. Spec says XMP 3000. Is there like processor limit? Mine is i7-9750h.

BTW. Anyone had success with working 64Gb(2x32Gb) ? As spec. says it is possible
https://www.clevo.com.tw/clevo_prodetail.asp?id=1199&lang=en

 

It supports up to 64GB yes but that speed is a bit of an ask on the memory controller.

 

3000MHz also seems to be the sweet spot for my Coffee Lake era PB70EF-G. It's actually on mismatched 2666MHz modules (Crucial/Micron and SK Hynix). Additionally, they're both 16GB Dual rank sticks! The system seems to purr like a kitten at 1500MHz 17-18-18-38, 525 tRFC, 1T Command Rate.

I often wonder where I'd get on matched, quality, 8GB Single rank sticks...

 

Sometimes larger isn't necessarily slower, since they're newer. If you want to really zip, how about 16GB sticks at 13-12-12-28 @1500? It does need 1.35V at that speed, though.

 

Is it stable?
does such a timings infuence somehow heating of RAM sticks?

 

The system is absolutely rock-solid with the RAM at 1500 MHz using those timings. Just for kicks, I like to run it at 1546/3092 sometimes for benching, where it's stable enough for benchmarks, but not everything. At 1500/3000, I've never had a single failure of any kind.

As far as heat goes, you're right, there's going to be an increase due to the fact that it gets more bits moving, but it certainly isn't anything dramatic. Using HWiNFO64, and running PassMark's Memory Mark, I see about a 5 °C increase in the SODIMMs, from 37.5 ° to 41 ° on the top SODIMM, and from 40.8 ° to 45 ° on the bottom SODIMM. That includes running them at 1.35V. Definitely no worries!

 

Timings wont impact temperature, no. Voltage is the main thing with ram, but it should not get silly hot.

 

I try overclock ddr4 stick from 2666 to 3200Mhz with1.35V. It didn't work. Right now I cannot set 3000Mhz 1.35V which was previously possible. Did I burn something?

 

Is it possible? Yes. However, is it likely? Probably not. Could it be that you had changed the RAM's timing parameters to support 3000, and forgot about the change? Something along the lines of changing tCL from 19-20, or tRAS from 38-39?

Anyway, just try using your old RAM timing parameters and adding +2 to each of them, like from 19-17-17-40 to 21-19-19-42. Then boot. Does it work? If so, just gradually reduce one of the timing parameters by -1 and test. If it fails, change that last parameter back by +1, and go on to the next. Repeat these steps until you've found your sweet spot.

If things just don't seem right, you can also try resetting your BIOS before you go through this process. It might help.

Good Luck!

 

Thank you for answer. I will play with those parameters.

I am thinking about buying RAM stick you recommend CL16
I found also CL18 version which is also cheaper, but is it really good as CL16 for shorting timings. I am wondering how much I can squeeze it.

https://www.amazon.de/Corsair-Ddr43000Mhzcl18Unbuffered-Sodimmmemory-6Thgenerationor-newerIntelCorei7notebooksand/dp/B07RDQ1FCB/ref=sr_1_8?__mk_pl_PL=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&keywords=VENGEANCE+3000Mhz+32+sodimm&qid=1570447565&sr=8-8

 

Probably just not retraining at the settings you have.

 

My PB51RF-G keyboard is not bad, but I am looking for short travel, low actuation force keyboard.
As I know there are two keyboard models for this Clevo. Is there a keyboard from other models that will fit to PB51RF-G?.
I was doing keyboard swapping before with my old laptop and it worked. Some functional keys might not work properly, but that could be fine.
I type a lot and on a long run it makes a difference.

 

No, I don't think anything else is plug and play.

 

Those RAM sticks are from January 26, 2016. It is almost 4 years old.
Is it ok to buy them or it might be better to look for a new ones fresh out production? Does the date of production influence somehow Overclocking possibilities?

 

Very interesting questions. If anything, what counts most is the manufacturing production batch, where some are just better than others. Unfortunately, these modules don't report their week/year of production in CPU-Z, so we can't use that as guidance. All we can say for sure is that this design is capable of 13-12-12-28 at 3000, with mine as one example. It could be that the next pair won't be quite as fast, or could be faster. When I do buy another pair, which I plan to do, if it doesn't deliver this same speed I'll probably return it...

 

1. I've heard that it is recommended to overclock processor first and than the RAM, if you want have both overclocked.
2. I have trouble to reach 4.5GHz at turbo freq(not overclocked). Even when temperatures are low during benchmarks I get 4.0GHz at most. Laptop is in performance mode at CC and battery. Spec says there is 4.5GHz for this model:
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...9750h-processor-12m-cache-up-to-4-50-ghz.html

 

1. I'm not familiar with this, since I OC my RAM first, while I know the processor is stable, but you can do it either way. You have the same CPU that I have, the i7-9750H. The best way to get started with this CPU is this Laptop CPU Tuning Guide, highlighting ThrottleStop on the 9750H.

2. Note that the CPU can only perform at 4.5 GHz on one core - when running all cores, you'll see 4.0 GHz max at load (or less, as it thermally throttles). If you run HWiNFO64, it'll show you exactly which speed each core is running at. Note that it's not unusual to see 4.5 only infrequently in normal use. Once you've got ThrottleStop configured, you'll start seeing higher frequencies at Idle.

Cheers!
Mark

 

I try to set all cores at 4.5GHz at ThrotleStop (Turbo Ratio Limit section) but it looks like it is locked. No difference under benchmark - still 4.0GHz max.
But success with undervolting. Settings similar to Your ones.

 

Yes, it's locked. That's Intel's definition of the 9750H - the multipliers for each core are locked times the Base Clock of 100 MHz. If you really want to overclock literally, you'll need a -K or -X or -S CPU. Now, within the confines of the 9750H, what ThrottleStop is for is to keep more cores running at a higher frequency than they would without an undervolt. Use HWiNFO64, and watch how ThrottleStop is working, and you'll understand. Make sure you are loading the CPU during all this!

 

Well, I decided to have some fun, and move to WiFi 6 on my machine. I installed the Killer Wi-Fi 6 AX1650 Module in my NP8454, and it came right up! Since other folks reported problems with this upgrade on a similar i7-9750H MSI notebook, it's a delight that it works flawlessly in our Sager/Clevos. I'm afraid that I can't do any benchmarks yet, since I don't own a WiFi 6 router, but I'm posting over this module just fine. Cool stuff!

Update: Setting my NP8454 to Mobile Hotspot allowed it to share internet with my phone, a Samsung S10 Plus. This resulted in an 866 Mbps WiFi 6 connection (Windows apparently doesn't want to provide 160 MHz channels in hotspot mode, nor can the S10+ accept 160 MHz channels if it did).

 

To add a bit more explanation, when the 9750H is loaded (demands more cores doing more work), temperatures quickly rise on the chip. When this happens, Intel automatically reduces the multiplier on the cores in order to reduce the temperature. If we have undervolted the CPU, less temperature will be generated to begin with, meaning that the throttling will be less. As a result, the cores run faster, and more work gets done.

In other words, we're trying to get as many cores as we can towards 4.0 GHz, while the CPU is loaded.

 

It's not just temperature, there are timers on short and long duration turbo, maximum power at each and maximum current values.

Then there are secondary peak draw limits outside of the primary limits which matter more towards 5GHz.

It's a complicated equation in the end.

 

Undervolting is nice. It also increase battery life. We know that this laptop is rather power hungry.
Lets say I want to go for a trip and I want to use this laptop only for check email, internet browsing, text editing. No games, no power demanding apps. How to increase battery life? Currently I know:
- processor undervolting
- powersaving mode at control center
- power mode: better battery(Windows 10)
- dim display
Any other ideas?

 

Off the top of my head, here's a few to add to your list:

• Turn off the Nvidia GPU! Thanks to @faenil, below, make sure you don't do this by using Device Manager/Disable Device on the Nvidia chip, which makes power soar. Instead, use the NVIDIA Control Panel to force Integrated Graphics.
• If you have an OLED panel, use Dark Mode in Windows, as well as your apps, like Chrome, Thunderbird, etc.
• Use ThrottleStop to underclock the CPU
• Use ThrottleStop to enable higher processor C-states (don't ask me how on this one)
• Turn off the keyboard LEDs
• Enable airplane mode when not browsing or checking email
• Mute audio when you don't need it
• Windows Advanced Power Management to turn off all PCIe, SATA, drives faster
• Run PrimoCache, which reduces disk accesses overall
• Unplug external devices most of the time! If you must use external keyboard/mouse, get Bluetooth devices.
• Remove RAM OC (down to 1.20v; saves min 26.5% of RAM power)
• Carry a second battery and screwdriver, which doubles whatever else you've done

Cheers!
Mark

 

The screen brightness and refresh rate if it's a high refresh rate are also important.

 

Turn off the Nvidia GPU!
In BIOS i only found "gpu performance scaling" but I guess it doesn't turn off GPU

Remove RAM OC
Does it takes more power if there is some OC but at 1.2V?

 

In "monitor properties" I have only 144Hz as possible option to choose. Is it somwhere else?

Is it possible at this laptop to swap function keys? Ex: I don't have to make combination of Fn+F8 to dim display. I just press F8? Usually it is possible in BIOS. My BIOS is INSYDE 1.07.11. Beside XMP profiless this BIOS looks poor IMHO.

 

Are you in dedicated or optimus mode? CRU would be able to save one.

 

To turn off the GPU, just Disable Device in Device Manager. You'll see in HWiNFO64 that the GPU essentially disappears. NOTE. This is incorrect, for it makes power go way up!

I wouldn't worry about the (tiny) additional power from a RAM OC, as long as you run 1.20V.

 

Or go into the nvidia driver panel, set everything in the optimus menu to use the igp and restart. That way you are not impacting your drivers.

 

Interestingly enough, so far I don't see any measurable performance difference between these two approaches at all, suggesting that the appropriate driver changes are made without rebooting.

I have a high precision power meter arriving today, that will let me start to have a better handle on how much each option actually changes total power consumption. Obviously, it'll be contributing to future posts. Cheers!

 

A reboot will reload all apps and ensure the igp is selected when it is the default. A lot easier to suggest that over figuring out what is currently in use

 

Disabling the card in Device Manager will prevent the nvidia driver from being able to turn it off.
On the opposite, the card will start consuming quite some power, around 20W on its own, if I remember correctly.

 

Now that's important news! If that's the case, how do we turn it off in the nvidia driver? Sorry that I'd only been using HWiNFO and Tom's for my information, and was wrong!

 

In the optimus performance menu you can select one always or choose which apps load which.

 

You can doublecheck by unplugging the charger and checking the power consumption on hwinfo (when running on battery the Charge Rate will show the power consumption of the system)

To disable the nvidia gpu use the nvidia control panel as mentioned above

 

I've corrected my post to tell folks not to use Disable Device. Many thanks to @faenil and @Meaker@Sager for correcting my error.

 

It's rare these days that optimus goes awry, even when it does you can usually put it back on track manually selecting which device to use.

 

Hello.

Just wanted to say thank you for sharing your tweaking experiences with the PB5xRF. I've been following this thread for a while and finally decided to make the effort to create an account.

If you're on a budget and can't afford the Samsung B die-kit that Mark recommended, I had some decent succes with this (older) G.skill-kit: F4-3000C16D-32GRS. I'm running it at 3100 MHz, 15-17-17-34-1T 1.35V after tinkering with the subtimings for a while. It's Hynix chips but around 100€ cheaper where I live. Not nearly as fast as 13-12-12-28-1T, obviously, but still fairly decent. As other users have noted in one of the laptops with desktop CPUs threads, this kit needs some tweaking with the subtimings to be stable. I used Mr. Fox's Youtube guide as a starting point.

@Mark J Foster: Did you have any luck with reflashing the BIOS and unlocking the BCLK of the motherboard?

I'm still trying to min-max the GPU after undervolting the CPU. I can't break a Graphics score of 20700 in Firestrike. What GPU Frequency/voltage-curve combined with memory clock speed did you set in MSI Afterburner to get so high scores in PassMark?
As for thermal paste, I'm using Condoctunaut on the i7-9750h and Kryonaut on the RTX2070. A max temperature of 66C on the GPU shouldn't be the limiting factor here.

 

Welcome to the forum, fipz! As far as the BIOS re-flash goes, I haven't yet been able to find the documentation that I need to know which bytes to patch in ME. It's still on my to-do list, though.

I've tried to help other folks make their systems faster, and enjoy doing so, but I'm afraid that the one thing I won't be sharing are my specific Passmark settings. That's a recipe that has taken a heck of a lot of work. Sorry!

 

I would challenge you to ever notice the difference between identical machines running each set of ram side by side let alone one after the other.

 

That could be interesting results with proper meter.
Do You guys know what is a difference in power consumption by SATA and pcie drive during idle and full load?
BTW
I found at clevo website:
Two M.2 SSDs PCIe Gen 3x4 or One PCIe Gen3x4 and One SATA
So it means that there cannot be three drives working at the same time. Is there shared pcie port for SATA and pcie?
https://www.clevo.com.tw/clevo_prod...vo.com.tw/clevo_prodetail.asp?id=1199&lang=en

What is the biggest size of both SATA and pcie drive?

 

Check your manual also our configuration will show available options.

 

I'll start with my setup as a reminder. I have two M.2 Sabrent Rocket NVMe 1TB drives in RAID 0, plus a 2.5" 2TB Corsair MX500 SATA drive. This 3-drive configuration works perfectly.

The largest available M.2 SSDs that I'm aware of are currently 2TB, while the largest 2.5" slim SSDs are up to 4 TB.

Power consumption of SSDs is highly related to how you configure their power management. If you configure them well, and don't mind delays that are on the order of a second for power-on, true idle power can be less than 100 mW.

Full-on power consumption can be quite high, on the order of 5W for Intel's cruddy 2TB M.2 drive. Also, NVMe PCIe Gen. 4.0 drives even exceed that, when they're in an AMD system.

Importantly, remember that the best way to minimize active power in any drive is to minimize activity, so PrimoCache is a great tool!

Check out Anandtech's article for more:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12263/the-crucial-mx500-500gb-review/

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk