Sound card on Clevo P170EM [replacement inside]!?!?

I'll tell you what - since you already plan on ordering the X-Fi for your GF, wait a bit on the Razer, get the X-Fi, connect it to your HD205's and check for yourself.

Otherwise, don't say I didn't warn ya

 

That's what i plan to do! First order the x-fi, test it and if it is really good i'll buy another x-fi for my GF

 

Once again, if you're going to buy good headphones, don't get a crap card like anything X-Fi. Good headphones should be paired with something like the E10.

 

Any reasons why you call the X-Fi crap? Also can the E10 expand stereo source into virtual surround on its own?

 

"Virtual surround" is worthless. It's a gimmick at best, and diminishes sound quality at worst. High-quality stereo sound is going to give you better positional audio, any day of the week, without issue. The X-Fi series are all run of the mill at best, with no-name DACs and middling opamps (and that's on the desktop cards). The E10 is just a high quality DAC and amp - no gimmicks. It shines with music, and operates just like any other sound card elsewhere. If you don't use good headphones, you probably won't be able to tell the difference between good gear like the E10 and middling gear like the X-Fi. The X-Fi isn't horrible, but compared to something purpose-built it's not that great. The extra $15 for the E10 (as of current Amazon prices) is worth it. It's smaller, too.

Both will be an improvement, probably large, over the internal audio.

 

I am looking for the best 5.1/7.1 headphone/headset for the money. And I am talking under $50 minimum, but I'd like to spend maybe $30-$40.

 

Your money would be SIGNIFICANTLY better spent on a good pair of stereo headphones. "Surround" headphones are junk at any price, but at $50 and below, they're going to be very, very bad. That's if any are even available.

 

But If I get better stereo headphones I am going to continue having the same damn problem, as in not enough bass. It doesn't matter how good a stereo headphone is, it will still be a stereo headphone. My HD 201's have custom pads on them that make the bass super rich, and the bass is still lacking with the Sager. I feel bad for those with headphones that ALREADY lack bass. Their ears must be bleeding at this point. Either I get a 7.1 headphone or the Fiio10/Creative USB card.

BTW a true 7.1 set can be useful because there are games that actually use true 7.1, not just turn stereo into 7.1.

 

The limitation with "surround" headphones is not the software, but the hardware. If you want surround, the only way to truly get it is to buy speakers. No "surround" headset is going to be worth its weight in rice. Good stereo headphones will be more immersive.

Bass - or any other frequency - isn't a function of "surround" or not. The issue you're having is with the internal audio, which seems to suck more than that of the average notebook. (If you didn't own something like the HD201, it might be a function of your cans, but those will at least register on the low end.) You don't need a pricy card to fix it - a decent $10 C-Media USB audio device (or even the X-Fi Go) would do the job - but you'll get great results from something like the E10.

 

I've used my cousin's 7.1 headset with Halo: Reach on an Xbox 360. The experience was more immersive than any I've ever had with a game.

I also realize the sound card is the issue. I guess I will buy a USB AMP then.

Can the Creative Go! be used in stereo mode, or is the surround sound forced?

 

Try a truly high-quality pair of headphones. You might be surprised.

It would be a USB DAC/sound card, not an amp, exactly - but yes, the Go works just fine in stereo. Plug into the 3.5mm jack and don't use any of the software settings (EQ, "surround", etc.).

 

My headphones sound amazing with my HP desktop; the headphones are not the problem. I've listened to higher quality headphones, including the Grados and the better Sennheisers, and I either never bought them or returned them because after a while it always seemed the gain in sound quality wasn't worth the money. The HD 201 was $35 including the added ear pads that I purchased from Sennheiser, and they sound damn beautiful for the price...that is when connected to the HP desktop I used to use, which properly output sound to stereo phones. They sound is much worse with the Sager in stereo mode, and then decent but bass-lacking in 7.1 mode. It is the Sager onboard sound card that doesn't output enough bass to stereo headphones, and then there is the volume issue. Oh man is max volume QUIET on the Sager compared to other computers I have used.

Thanks for the help/advice though.

 

I meant for immersiveness, not to fix the bass.

If you ever have a chance to try the Ultrasone HFI-780 or Denon D2000 (the latter should be at Guitar Center), give them a listen. But I digress, getting off-topic. Good luck with the Go.

 

I found the virtual surround in the X-Fi CMSS-3D to be working very well when the source is 7.1, especially in game, definately not a gimmick, you either didn't try it or it didn't work for you .

 

I've used CMSS-3D. It doesn't impress me.

 

Not sure what the worthless you meant is based on. But it simply isn't about the impression of sound quality for music, it's about the directional sound in games and movies.

When it comes to 5.1/7.1 sources, does the E10 have a way to handle that on its own? Or the E10 is recongnized by programs as stereo devices? What CMSS-3D could do here is convert the 5.1/7.1 sources into virtual 128 channels and play it through stereo headphones.

 

The E10 is a simple stereo device. Nobody would use some 3D effect for music, obviously - but even for gaming, simple stereo is much better in my experience with proper headphones. (I'm not the only one who thinks so.) Good positional audio systems in games will be well-tuned for such a thing.

You're welcome to use things like CMSS-3D if you like, and it's fine if others have different opinions. I just don't consider it worth anything, personally, and will take higher quality sound overall over an 'expansion' effect. YMMV, and if it works for you, that's good, and all that really matters.

 

I thought the X-Fi were crap as well due to reviews. They're anything but...

They're actually providing (among) the best sound I have heard coming from a computer, especially if you add a high-duty amp to the mix. That virtual surround is just a software feature that can be turned off, it's not a selling point.

That being said, I tried playing Skyrim without that virtual surround and with it, and believe it or not, I now can't play that game without the virtual surround. It's done exceptionally well, much better than dedicated surround headphones like the Logitech G35, to tell you the truth. And I usually don't like that gimmicky stuff, but it actually works as advertised, which is refreshing in this day and age.

Nearly everything is 'crap' if you compare it to something better and pricier, there's always a bigger fish.

Anyway, to each his own, so try not to be so critical of stuff you haven't tried or used for a good period of time.

 

I used two different X-Fi ExpressCard models for about 2-3 years, between three different pairs of headphones, one of which I still own and know intimately. Any X-Fi will be a step up from integrated audio on any PC, absolutely - it's about value. When the price points are similar ($15 difference is slim when considering $100-$300 outputs), I'm going to choose the higher-quality sound. Creative has improved over the years, after their initial decline, and there's not a lot of choice in mobile sound. There's virtually none in the ExpressCard format and I give them credit for filling that niche. USB has a bit more choice.

To each his own, indeed. CMSS-3D was never my bag of potatoes, thus I see little value in it, but if it works for you and others, all the better. That is what's important.

I apologize if I've come off incorrectly - my opinions are, of course, exactly that, except where backed up by objective testing. For what it's worth, an expert has tested the X-Fi Pro, E10, and a lot of other inexpensive USB DACs. His results - including other choices like the Behringer UCA202 and Asus U3 - are here. The U3, a Xonar series card, will have similar software features to the X-Fi.

 

I somehow knew that would be your reply

OK, let me have a second go at that last sentence of my reply:

Anyway, to each his own, so try not to be so critical. That's it

The X-Fi was supposed to be a temporary workaround until I would get something better, such as what you suggested, but it ended up as my real solution for this sound issue, hence my recommendation of it.

 

And believe me, I'm glad it did! Once more, I do apologize if I come off too critical. I just want the best for my fellow discerning NBR members! Audio is one of my passions.

 

Don't worry about it, I can sure understand being knowledgeable about something and then watching others talk about the subject while they obviously know nothing about it

Looking at your (great) link, compared to the FiiO E10, the X-Fi can indeed be summed up as 'crap'

I'll get that FiiO E10 as soon as this Creative toy is broken.

 

No need to rush if it's working for you. The gap between the U3 and the E10 is much bigger - though the Go standard vs. Go Pro may be worse - and the difference in quality won't be enormously noticeable unless the Go is horribly broken. (I had to go back through the thread, I see you're the one with the ATH-M50.) You're in a better position to spot the difference than others. My advice to anyone who already has properly-working sound, and who isn't looking at $50 vs. $65, is upgrade your outputs first! That will make a much more apparent difference (and should be the topic of another thread).

 

That's a great blog, scientific in its approach and no snake oil in sight.

I happen to own the cheap UCA202 which I'd been using with a NAS box, but it has now found new use with my Clevo. Even this simple DAC is a massive, massive step up from the P150EM's truly atrocious offering.

(That blog even has an article on how to improve the UCA202's headphone output, I think I might do that. Thanks for the link!)

 

WIll the X-Fi Go! Pro improve volume output btw? Apparently is doesn't have an internal amp, but I am not sure what that quite means.

Lol I tried my HD 201 headset with my Sansa Clip+. Yes, the tiny little matchbox sized Mp3 player. Music sounded better and MUCH richer with the Clip+ than the Sager. The Clip+ could also output at a much louder volume.

Sager soundboard=failure. The power it outputs to stereo headphones could be produced by a penny sized motor. If the Clip+ sounds amazing compared to the Sager, I am sure the X-Fi Go! Pro will be a good surprise for me.

Update: apparently the X-Fi "Rolls off deep bass into headphones below 60 ohms"
NwAvGuy: X-Fi USB DAC
My HD 201 is 24 ohms.
So because my headphones need so little power, I will lose bass? That is really unfair and makes no sense.

 

It doesn't. That's because it's the other way around The greater the impedance ("the ohms"), the less power is consumed.

 

The Clip and Clip+ are famous for having fantastic sound quality. And, well, luck of the draw, there - I did say you gain things with the E10. You probably won't notice what NwAvGuy is describing.

Not quite. The higher the resistance, the more power that's needed to drive it to sufficient volumes. For example, the Beyerdynamic DT770 250ohm require a much beefier amp than the 80ohm version.

The X-Fi does have an internal amp, like the E10; if they didn't, you wouldn't be able to use either with headphones.

Glad the blog has been a help. The guy is tops at what he does, and designs some real nice hardware himself.

 

Dangit, I knew I should have added "at a given voltage". You are correct of couse. And I'm not wrong either

 

I'm going to buy the X-Fi Go! at Best Buy and let you guys know what happens. If it ends up not sucking, we can all bask in the glory of being able to use low impedance headphones with the Go!. If it ends up sucking, I will return it and live with crappy audio until I have enough money to comfortably buy the FiiO E10.

 

It won't suck. Sure, compared to the FiiO E10 it's nothing spectacular, but it works pretty well all things considered. I don't think you'll regret the purchase.

Edit: Oh, and consider taking the X-Fi Go! Pro, not the regular stuff.

 

The Pro at Worst Buy will likely be more than the E10 from Amazon. With low-end cans, the regular Go should be sufficient for the moment for Tranta.

EDIT: I'm thinking of the Pro, not the Go! Pro. The Go! Pro is cheap enough at $25, the Pro is indeed too pricy at $70 ($20 more than Amazon!).

 

Bah, I didn't know that. OK, no Pro, then

 

See my edit above. Creative has multiple USB things named Pro.

 

Oh. Yeah, I was referring to the Go! Pro, which is just a bit more.

 

I'm gonna buy the Fiio E10 and the Go Pro! I friend of mine has one (go pro) and I was able to test and it really impressed me the quality of the sound if provided. Nothing spectacular but it's worth it

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

 

What do you have for headphones?

 

Senheiser HD205

 

Get the Go Pro for now. You won't notice the quality difference in the E10. Upgrade your headphones first.

For a few dollars more than the E10, you can get the Sony MDR-V6 (closed, $73 Amazon) or Grado SR-60i (open, $80 Amazon), two highly regarded sets of cans.

 

Hoooly crap. I just plugged in the X-Fi Go! Pro ($25 at Best Buy, they are trying to compete with Amazon). Dude, this thing DESTROYS the Sager. Bass is much higher, and the max volume is TRIPLE what I can get out of the Sager. Sound quality is also better. $25 well spent! And now my headphones plug into the left, so more room for my mouse!

My headphones are the HD 201, as I mentioned, which have 24 ohm impedance. Without installing the Creative software, the response seems very good with my headphones. Granted I have the custom ear pads on my headphones which keep the bass in a bit more than stock HD 201s.

 

Glad it's working well for you. Internal audio on any notebook sucks, and will probably be beaten by even the Go Pro, but it seems the Clevo/Sager has a special brand of suck...

 

Definitely dude, it is so worth it. As I said yesterday, we may now bask in this glory!

BTW, I disabled the Realtek Audio chip in the device manager before plugging in the X-Fi, and disabled THX for startup in Ccleaner. I am not going to install any of the THX/Creative stuff for now, but I will eventually get to it.

 

K0nane you made my day with this one ahahaha

 

Except me. I had no suck to begin with - still no notebook, between USPS and a certain credit card company taking FOREVER...

It's true, no?

If I were you, I'd install Creative's drivers, but remove any auto-starting software and keep all "enhancements" completely off. You don't need to disable the ALC892, it won't be used when you have the Go Pro plugged in and set to default.

 

I can't wait honestly to get my Clevo and this tiny usb audio card! I heard it do wonders with my friend's eheh

What really pisses me off is that Clevo in 2006 was a dealer for Alienware and they didn't learn how to put good sound card's on Clevo's! But the earlier Clevo's, those had really crappy sound cards and believe me... real crap lol

 

I've heard having the main sound card enabled at the same time can cause interference/problems I guess I will install the Creative driver and driver only if it is on the disk.

Also, the audio hissing does exist but isn't very noticeable or annoying. I can't really hear it in WMP but I do hear it in some YouTube videos.

 

It shouldn't cause any problems. The only time it ever would, would be with a rare edge case combination of the Dell E1505 (see extended sig) flavor of integrated audio, the oldest X-Fi ExpressCard model, and Linux...

Electrical noise is to be expected with almost all cheap cards, and even some higher-quality ones if USB is providing dirty power (which I do hope is not the case on the NP* - you might want to try the non-high-power port, or the USB 2.0 port, which I plan to use for audio).

 

Compared to like, 4 years ago, the Clevo's nowadays have very improved sound cards but i think that Clevo should focus on including some standard sound card with better output! Honestly when i heard about Oynko something came to my mind and i started to get picky about this Oynko thing and as soon as i met NBR, BAM!, right in my face all i saw were topic regarding people with issues on the sound card BUT the issues can easily be fixed with a workaround (putting the sound system in 7.1 instead of stereo)! But i think that in future laptops Clevo should focus on another company's sound cards instead of Oynko's!

And you know what? I opened this thread asking about some usb card and it reached 10 pages which i think is fabulous for a community like this one! And with a topic like this people can really take an idea of what to buy, where to see reviews and stuff like that!

 

The speakers are the only thing Onkyo branded, and that's in-name-only (from what I can tell Onkyo should be disassociating themselves from it). The sound card is just a Realtek ALC892, nothing special, fancy, or branded. Internal sound cards will always be Realtek and co., never something special. If they claim it is, it'll be just like "THX" - junky software.

Happy to have contributed to others' audio experiences.

 

Well in the Clevo the sound is only crap if you go for 2.0 sound . Perfectly fine when working in 5.1/7.1 mode. By the way the new P370EM has a different sound card, ALC269 (Hardware ID: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10EC&DEV_0269&SUBSYS_15583700). But in the driver released for P370EM it seems to be using the same install section (IntcAzAudModel) as the ALC892.

 

Didn't know that mate!
Well at first i was thinking on buying the Alienware because of the sound card problems... but suddenly everyone on Alienware lounge has problems with something!
Clevo always got my attention for being such a cool company and honestly i am in some forums and never had seen a single major complaint about Clevo!
Anyway guys for me i have just this to say to you: I'm gonna upgrade my headphones to Razer Tiamat 7.1 and i will get my girlfriend a Go Pro and she will be with my current headphones, the Senheiser HD205

I think that imo it is a good buying that i'm gonna do!

Buying some good headphones will overcome the problems with the soundcard or should i stick with my Senheiser HD205 and get two Go Pro instead and give my GF some senheiser hd205 too? lol