W230ST - The 13" We've been waiting for!?

Overclockers have an actual date on their preorder page, PC Specialist said something like "I don't know, but I'll say 1-2 months"... silver lining is that worst case scenario I'll be getting it in September for the start of my second year of university Haven't heard anything from Scan btw and they're the ones I'd keep an eye on, might be on the forums but I haven't really looked.

 

Is glossy screen being offered on this baby? I hate matte screens right now with a vengeance because of the damn grainy/smudgy and shimmering look of it. I'd rather have a glossy screen even if it is reflective as long as the color is rich and the screen is clear and crisp.

 

Yes. In general, RAID-0 should be only used to store content that you don't care about if it gets lost (OS, applications, games). Those types of apps you can always reinstall in the event of data loss, so it isn't a big deal if you lose that.

The additional storage drive is intended to store your bulk media content (photos, music, movies, pr0n). That content is harder to recover / rebuild in the event of a storage hardware failure, so you want to put it on the most reliable storage you have. In addition, that type of content doesn't benefit from RAID-0 or SSD speeds, so you might as well put it on cheap, slow bulk mechanical HDDs.

It's also worth noting that RAID-0 on SSDs is a waste. You will not get any real world performance benefit, unless you have very specific workload patterns (eg. large sequential write patterns from video editing or photo editing). Unless you are one of those people, RAID-0 on SSDs is actually detrimental due to the loss of TRIM and the need to load RAID controller drivers during the windows install process.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

 

If you lose one drive with a one drive system, it's just as detrimental as losing one drive in a two drive RAID 0 array.

I agree but you still need to external backup this data daily. No excuses if you lose it.

I agree it really has limited use, and not really valuable for most people. But TRIM is supported now with RAID 0 cards, and loading RAID drivers is just placing a file or folder on your USB flash drive.

 

I highly disagree with this from three years' experience with VAIO Zs. There is incredible boost in performance relative to non-RAiD0. The gains are read and write both, so no need to be an A/V editor to benefit.

 

MSI GE-40 Review :
Test DevilTech Fire DT14 Notebook - Notebookcheck.com Tests

Major issues on the Temperature, and Throttling.

Glad I didn't go for this, and ordered W230ST instead.
Hope Lightning is correct on his review.

 

You only see these benefits when benchmarking specific data patterns... typically sequential read / writes at high queue depths.

In real world performance, most data patterns are random read / writes. Additionally, in absolutely ideal situations, RAID-0 will get you 2x performance at best. This is not large enough to be noticeable in real world performance for a storage system.

RAID-0 is only noticeable on synthetic benchmarks, not real world scenarios. The only real world scenario where you actually notice a benefit from RAID-0 is if you have heavy sequential read/write data usage patterns. And in the real world, you only really see this with video and photo editing. Regular desktop users, enthusiasts, and even heavy gamers won't see any real world benefit over a single fast SSD.


Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

 

Not sure if analyzing hundreds of gigabytes of hyperspectral remote sensing data counts as "photo editing", but the difference is definitely noticeable!

I use software RAID though.

 

2x performance is not noticeable? In a world where CPUs are only improving 20% or less each year, I'll take nearly twice as fast OS and app startup any day.

However, you are right that 2x is the theoretical limit... 50% is more like it... But still.

 

Does anyone have a link to a good HOWTO on installing RAID0 mSATA as the boot partition using Windows?

Which works better, Win7 or 8?

Thanks!

 

You must not have used any matte screens as of late. They aren't grainy, just diffuse the light, especially on an IPS-like display with great contrast, brightness, color saturation, etc.

Pretty straightforward. Just go into BIOS and set to RAID instead of AHCI.

 

2x performance is not noticeable, because that is 2x performance on a single part, only measurable by specific benchmarks, in specific data read/write patterns.

It's similar to RAM speeds. You can run benchmarks to show that DDR3 2133Mhz is 30% faster than DDR3 1600Mhz. But in the real world, you very rarely ever run into the same data usage patterns replicated in benchmarks.

When it comes to SSD storage, you see a dramatic improvement over traditional HDDs because SSDs have random read speeds 200x greater than mechanical HDDs. And random read patterns make up 95% of what a typical desktop user, enthusiast, or gamer will see. So a 2x improvement to sequential read/write speeds will not be noticeable at all, unless you are someone who runs into higher-than-average sequential data access patterns.


Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

 

Also speaking from experience, my Sony Vaio Z with RAID0 can't hold a candle to a next generation SSD, let alone 2 generations ahead. We're talking three times the speed difference, here, hardly worth the hassle. Either SSDs don't seem to benefit as much from RAID0, or this whole thing is grossly overrated.

Besides, you can just use a caching solution, such as Primacache for example, which caches the data in your RAM instead of your hard-drive it, and gives you surreal speeds of around X8 to X10 the speeds of a fast SSD in read or write (I just use read caching, write is fast enough, IMO, and again - not worth the risk).

Edit: Oh, and no, RAID0 doesn't give you 2X the performance, not even close.

 

HTwingnut, unfortunately I have both the Samsung Chronos PLS display and the New Alienware 14 with its FHD 1080p IPS Matte display infront of me and both are close 72% color gamut. Both are suffering from the "IPS Glow bleeding issue" and the screen especially when viewing whites are so dirty looking that is so grainy and smudgy. I also had the G75VX with the matte screen that I end up returning because it was so grainy too. I also had the Sager NP9130 default 1080p super clear matte from Xoticpc and it was grainy too. I also had the Thinkpad T410 and the Sony Vaio S13A and those two were the most horrible matte screens I've seen because it was so grainy and it was shimmering.

I'm so sick of it right now and you can't really blame me, but right now, I prefer a high quality glossy TN panel instead and i'll sacrifice and take the glare reflections any day of the week if that would mean nomore grainy/smudgy look on the display.





Btw hwingnut, here is a sample pic of my New Alienware 14 1080p IPS Matte display and its horrible IPS Bleeding Glow

 

I think if you asked the majority of users here if they prefer glossy vs matte most would take matte over glossy any day. It is personal preference, but graininess is a result of the manufacturer and process not due to being matte.

That Alienware 14 just looks like a bad backlight bleed period, nothing to do with matte.

 

Here's the M5M 2x128GB RAID 0



Looks pretty darn close to 2x of sequential and 512k. 4KB although is not significantly faster, barely faster actually

 

Nice, pretty fast indeed! And yeah, sure seems like 2X performance

Well, maybe they improved the RAID0 drivers, maybe Sony just used old and slow SSDs in my machine, I'm not too sure, but my Vaio Z barely scrapped the 200 mark.

 

The fact that next-gen SSD are faster than prev-gen doesn't erase the RAID0 speed gains for any given SSD.

 

Sorry but earlier didn't you say it involved dropping some drivers into some folders on the installation media or some such thing? You select the RAID configuration in BIOS or in Windows?

 

has anyone ordered w230st with 1600x900 panel ? Curious to see how good the panel is cause to be honest with you I think Full HD will be just to small for 13.3 laptop...

 

actually it does, since the next gen is sata express and are already currently able to perform the same as the now SSDs in RAID 0 (or tranny raid), however there are more controllers that will launch including SF, intel, samsung, marvell, OCZ

 

Oh yeah sorry, usually there are "F6 Floppy" drivers referring to the old days of installing drive controller drivers prior to OS. Similar concept, just you will have to put those on your Windows USB flash drive and click load drivers.

Intel® Rapid Storage Technology (Intel® RST) — F6 installation method

 

what kind of user is going to need 16gb of ram vs 8gb?
i do pretty basic stuff on my computer. watching/streaming videos, surfing the internet using multiple tabs, word processing, etc.
i will be transferring a crucial m4 from my current laptop into the w230st when i eventually order it.

i wonder if the improvement in performance is marginal or not?

 

The average user will probably not *need* 16GB, but for the $80 to upgrade it at the time of purchase is much cheaper then later pulling out the 8GB to go to 16.

I have 12GB on my NP7280 and I've had that for almost 3 years and have not had any issues with the type of work I do.

 

8GB for average usage is fine, if you're using VMs then you probably want 16GB. Just for reference I'm using 5GB of RAM now (another 6GB of content cached, leaving a whole 5GB of RAM totally completely unused) and I've got a few tens of chrome tabs open, also handbrake, steam, skype, xchat, music players, various screen capture programs... Only time I've come close to running out is when on top of this I'm running a VM I've given 8GB of RAM too

 

It looks like RJTech may be the way to go for me. Any one have any experience with New Leaf Service Pro warranties, which is what they offer? They seem relatively hard to find information on.

 

Ram could drop in price over that time however and more power efficient or better clocking sticks may appear.

 

Is AHVA anothername for IPS on W230ST?

XoticPc Sager version does not list it as IPS but Mythlogic list it as IPS?? Which of the two are telling the truth? IPS or TN?>

 

AHVA is the AUO trade name of the IPS type technology. LG has the brand of IPS, but its all the same technology. So its not a TN panel, it uses "IPS Like" technology.. Same tech, different name.

 

Thanks Mythlogic!!! Do you guys have the W230ST now ready for building/shipping? Btw do you have a sample in your shop right now? If you do, how is the screen on it? Does it show grainy surface especially on white background? How about the IPS backlight bleeding or IPS glow on very dark background?

Can you also tell me the AUO model of the panel on it via device manager hardware id? I thought the display panel would be the same as the ips fhd panel on the Asus UX32VD @ page 122 of this thread which is a Chi Mei instead of AUO.

Thanks

 

They told me they don't know what the model they are going to ship was using when I asked them a couple days ago because they had only used a pre-production model, but they said that the screen looked really good, and didn't ghost or lag while gaming. I don't know about backlight bleed though it will probably have IPS glow like every other non-professional panel though.

 

Will there be drivers for windows 7 or is this a windows 8 only machine?

 

As far as we know, it's all supported in windows 7 except the 7260 wifi option.

Should be a temporary issue, but as far as showstoppers go, it's a pretty big one.

 

The Windows 7 drivers now work too.

 

Anyone know who else is releasing this in the UK or where it is up for pre-order?

Cheers!

 

As mentioned.....

Full support Windows 7 drivers will be posted. All orders shipped by Sager or it's resellers this week will have this Windows 7 driver.

A link to download this driver will be posted soon. ...

 

Yep. That was my thought exactly as I just upgraded my 8250 to 32GB and so knew what 16GB 2x8 was going to cost me and the $80 was ~$40 cheaper and on top of that I have no use for the 2x4s that's be coming out. HAD I known for certain that I was going to order a 7330 I MIGHT left it @ 8GB, replaced the 2x4s with 2x8s and then put the 2x4s into the 8250.

As to memory useage, well I do alot of crazy thing like have browser windows open with 100s of tabs, compile all sorts of large packages under linux, etc. so the more actual physical RAM the better as 100s of tabs in any browser sucks down memory like crazy, and even on some of those large package compiles will suck down 32GB AND still eat into VM, but at least they'll finish more quickly. (I remember the days of having to bootstrap gcc(essentially a full set of 3 complete compile runs took hours on a 386, and before that it took hours to load everything off the million(ok 20 or 40) floppies to just get to that point) just to get started setting up a useful linux system. (... and then we had to go on to compile pretty much everything else...)

Also if you deal with photo/video/anything with large data sets 8GB probably won't cut.

BUT for your light useage scenario 8GB should be plenty. OTOH also, I can't really see using a 7330 for any heavy lifting, and as a matter of fact after early temp reports I'd probably take the hit and go 4702MQ if it were an option. i.e. I'm now waiting to see what wingnut turns up this week as, hopefully, his 7330(4800MQ) will be in tomorrow...

[EDIT]
@hutsady
mythlogic said that they had win7 whql drivers from intel engineering since they started selling the 7260... however OTOH I was told by someone else that there were no win7 drivers yet and that even the win8 drivers were only in testing... so... both seem reliable sources, but...
[/EDIT]

 

8GB is enough for the vast majority of users, those who use more are well aware of it.

 

I am seriously considering this laptop, but was wondering if heat might be an issue. With that much hardware in such a small space, will throttling of the CPU/GPU be likely if you play games for a long period of time? Do the 4800 and 4900 CPU's give off more heat than the 4700? Would that further compromise the cooling system, if you bought it with one of the faster cpu offerings?

I have to decide whether I can go down from a 17" to a 13" I would mostly be using it on travel, and I have to run Adobe Premiere Pro and do some video editing on it. So I'm not sure if I need to stick to 17" or if I can live with 13". 13" form factor makes packing it much easier.

 

So was the 900p just a rumor/fake or do you think there is reasonable expectation of a 900p panel for the W230ST?

 

I guess it depends on the builder / reseller. One can order a 900p panel from the french builder, as an example.
I wonder which reference it is though.. If I buy this laptop I plan to swap the screen myself, so....
If anyone can suggest the best screen that fits in, I'd be grateful =)

 

Allright, I just checked and clevo.fr does offer 900p (and even 1366x768 if you wanted it).

Clevo Clevo sur mesure W230ST 13.3" FullHD, i7 Haswell 4ème Génération, Geforce Nvidia GTX 765M 2Go CLEVO - distributeur Clevo officiel, CLEVO P270WM, CLEVO P150EM, CLEVO P170EM, CLEVO P150HM, CLEVO P180HM, CLEVO P170HM...

Are any US resellers going to be carrying this baby with 900p?

 

The Polish site had all 3 resolutions as well. Someone said earlier that the 900p screens were not IPS though, not sure if this was confirmed. A 900p IPS option would be nice.

 

Only the 4702 is going to show noticeable cooler tempts because, by default, it uses much less power. However, that means slower video encoding times. Among the 4700, 4800 and 4900, I would seriously consider the 4800 if I were going to be doing any kind of video editing and encoding. The extra 300mhz is worth the extra $120-185 (depending on reseller) you're going to want for speed. OTOH, I don't know if the 4900 is worth the extra cost. It's not significantly enough gain in speed versus cost if you're on a tight budget. Not so restricted on budget? Then go for it 4900. As for heat, when encoding and under CPU load, either 3 of those is going to be pushing 90ºC. That's not a real problem, unless you're constantly encoding video formats throughout your entire work day. Most of the time, you're going to be editing, not encoding, and that's significantly less load on the CPU versus the GPU.

If you're worried about temps, wait on HTWingNut's review. He's about to review a W230ST with an 4800 CPU. He'll be OCD enough to make sure the IC Thermal paste is done just right and we'll see what those temps will be IRL.

Also, I noticed you're overlooking the 15" P15xxSM models. That would give you a little more mobility over the 17" without having the cooling restraints of a single fan unit. You would still have access to the 770m and 780m GPUs as well. Might be something to consider.

 

^^not great advice, this laptop will be limited by tdp so 4700 will most likely perform about the same as 4800mq or even 4900mq. maybe its worth it for single threaded applications, but just like with previous generation there was almost no point in buying above 3740qm as even 3960xm reached about the same speed due to temps limitation.

 

If you run heavily multithreaded apps, and cache hit rate is not an issue, the 4900 with 8M L3 cache could be slightly worse due to higher power consumption on the unused cache.

 

This may be a dumb question but this is my first time purchasing a gaming laptop as i usually just build my own desktops. I was curious about the copper cooling upgrade, is it worth it and what are the real life gains expected? Also what the heck is it, what do they actually do?? The heat pipes are already copper are they not?

 

It does help out cooling a little bit, most people on here will tell you that you need to do some chassis modding to truly benefit from it, but does help without that modding as well. We don't replace any of the existing cooling/heat pipes. Instead additional copper heatsinks are added to the existing heat pipes which adds thermal capacity of the copper itself as well as increases the surface area for the air to move across and dissipate that heat.

 

Well my 8250 came in the mail today...AND... it doesn't fit in my flight bag so gotta return it and it's looking like the 230 is the machine for me. Just wish it had a backlit keyboard. Any must have mods or addons? Hoping there isn't going to be too much of a delay with XoticPC in returning and reordering because I"m currently laptopless. Also anything out there in this size(up to 14.5) that's pretty comparable?

=Jason-

 

I think it does have a backlit keyboard, at least the ones from Sager say they do.