W230ST - The 13" We've been waiting for!?

hello,

i just bought a mxm 3.0b graphics card from ebay to replace a non-functioning gpu in my p150hm.
i'm posting in this thread just because i intend to eventually sell this laptop so i can buy a w230st.

in the meantime, i plan to buy an accompanying heatsink as well, but i've yet to purchase thermal paste and thermal pads.
i've never done this sort of installation before, but if someone could tell me where i can buy thermal paste/pads, which brands to buy and how i apply them to my video card, i'd really appreciate it.

 

Best places will depend on where you live

 

Not with Haswell (yet).

 

I wonder if the 4702mq will actually end up netting better performance because it will reduce the possibility of throttling.

 

@HTWingNut: do you already have tools for BIOS dump ? =)

 

Why, are you going to mod the BIOS?

I'm sure Prema will assist with it

 

I got a momentus XT 750GB going in there as well. This is my 2nd SSD (my first is my Samsung 830 256GB in my desktop) so I'm pretty excited

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

I don't want to get off topic but does anyone know if the Razer Blade does this? I would buy the Blade if it weren't for the screen. In my quest I stumbled upon this little bad boy but was disappointed when I read this. My last laptop was an M11x R1 and IIRC Alienware would brag about how it didn't do exactly what you are describing.

 

We already have our BIOS ready to roll, and yes you can overclock in the BIOS =)

 

Great to hear. I'm sure we will have a Prema-Wingnut exclusive eventually.

My machine has been confirmed as SHIPPED and should be here tomorrow!

 

Can anyone say if hybrid drives are useful if they are used as data storage drives not containing the OS?

 

Can't say if they are useful, but I CAN say they are useless as data-drives (the hybrid part)

 

I concur. As a data drive you get virtually no benefit from the built-in NAND cache. There's nothing wrong with using it as such, as perhaps you updated from a hybrid to regular SSD, and still have the drive as storage, then sure, run with it. But to buy it specifically for data storage, no.

 

Do we know what we can configure in XTU yet? WIll the revised bios unlock TDP settings in XTU? Please say yes!

 

Pretty sure that TDP is locked to the chip (that's why intel gives them the firm 37/47 watt tdp specs). Whether or not ThrottleStop will be updated to get around this for Haswell is largely irrelevant to the bios.

 

I know we've discussed this before.. but leaning toward switching CPU's in my pre ordered unit to the 4702... Just sounds like it'll be easier to keep cool without having to resort to hacks and time wasting (trial & error of what voltages works ect) to keep cool... am i crazy?

 

seattle. i was hoping there was a place online to buy both.

is it suggested that i use thermal compound in addition to thermal pads? one or the other?
i'm feeling a bit iffy having never used either item before.
i know people around here generally say its an easy process, i can't help but feel i'm going to f''' up.

 

So, can this thing fit an i7-4950HQ?

It cost $100 more compared to the i7-4900MQ.
But you can atleast do medium gaming (around GT 640M - GT 650M performance) on the go while reducing a lot of power required(47W), thus longer battery.
CPU speed-wise aren't that bad as well.

 

i7-4950HQ should be soldered, right ?

 

Not sure, I think you're right.
It also use a different socket.

Silly me. Ignore my post.

 

The 4702 uses 10w less power however... i keep going back and forth between it and the 4700.

People on here are suggesting the 4700 or even 4800 and just underclocking it to get temps right.. but i'm not sure how much i want to stuff around there personally.

 

The point is more to underclock/volt to me
Can't wait to see if throttling will be a problem, again !

 

The 4702 has 10W less maximum power than 4700. That does not mean the 4702 saves you 10W power all the time. In normal use they will use about the same power, the difference is that the 4702 stops at 37W when stressed, but the 4700 can go all the way to 47W to give more processing power. When running at battery (and not selecting the "performance" option) the CPU will never use its maximum power anyway. The 4702 is made for computers with insufficient cooling capability and limited power resources. The W230ST is not that kind of computer and a 4702 would not make sense in it.

 

Sorry, I probably didn't do a great job explaining that in my original post. Yeah, I understand this.. That being the case the few post in the other thread: ***Official Clevo W230ST/Sager NP7330 Owner's Lounge***** from the owners indicating heating may be an issue...

Also would a cooler CPU mean GPU can clock higher?

I'm happy to be proven wrong to be honest. I would love to hear the 4700 can be easily brought down to 37watt by XTU.. but it sounds like it's going to require a bit of stuffing around...

 

I've already posted it, but have you seen this?
It seems to me that if XTU works, 4702 doesn't make any sense at all (unless you want to have your laptop completely stock untouched).

 

Yup.. read that already.. But how easy is it to get the 4700 to about a 37 watt tdp limit? Wouldn't it require a decent amount of testing and what not? trying different voltages and max turbo clocks?

 

Well, I wouldn't know for sure. But I would just set the 4700 to work exactly as the 4702 (clocks and voltage, if it is in fact different). And, as I understand it, the 4700 should even be cooler than than the 4702 at the same configs.

 

Just replicate what others will test for ya

 

Explain yourself. What twisted logic did you conjure to arrive at this conclusion?

No offence, but I'm starting to lose a little patience in the collective stupidity that seems to be snowballing from one person's misinformation being taken as gospel.

If you have two haswell chips, running at the same mhz and the same voltage, doing the same work, they will consume the same amount of electricity, which is incidentally where all of the heat comes from.

Whether they're labelled 4702, 4700, 4800 or 4900, makes no difference.

Going one step further, if you have an i5 or i7 of any gen to play with on you, right now, grab a copy of throttlestop, and try manually playing with the multiplier while running prime95, and see how that affects your temperatures.

This is all the first hand experience you need to answer your own questions instead of trying to apply dollops of salt to other people's or talking about trial and error or risky hacks.

Edit: Because I missed mentioning it, Throttlestop even comes with a wattage readout for the cpu, if you wanna know what TDP you're hitting. You can easily make a 4700 consume less energy/create less heat than a stock 4702 (37 watts) purely by clicking the down arrow next to 'Set Multiplier' and reading your wattage under prime95 as a worst case scenario.

Double Edit: Make sure to turn off the GPU temperature in options; it spins up optimus every time it takes a reading, and throttlestop doesn't affect the GPU anyway.

 

Yes, when parked.

When you go around with the vehicle (for me it's usually a off-road car, which gives me more worries than a helicopter) bumping up and down, and you need to read some data so the drive is spinning, you'll start to worry.

When I'm in a safe place, say the office, I put my HDD in the optical bay and have it powered on all the time. When I'm in the field, I swap out the HDD and put it into a USB external drive case. I only connect it when I'm sure the vehicle won't be moving before I finish data transfer.

 

Non taken, just don't get angry without need.

True. But correct me: TDP is the thermal capacity of the chip. So I would assume a higher TDP would mean that the chip actually has better thermal dissipation. So, I believe the 4700, 4800 and 4900 would handle the heat more efficiently than the 4702 and thus operate at a lower temp at the same clocks (if voltage doesn't change which I don't know).

 

Keep in mind that the lower TDP 4702 chip (in a test scenario where it runs on the same Mhz as a 7400) does the same, but on less voltage...

 

This seems to be the case with the Ivy Bridge chips too. I tried TWO i7-3610QM chips in my Sager NP9150 and an i7-3740QM and even despite being the same TDP, the 3740QM runs cooler at idle and cooler at peak load (if I fix it at same max MHz as 3610QM). This is anecdotal evidence of course and a small sample size, but the thought seems to be mirrored by others too.

 

Intel does bin the chips so on average the higher speed chips are less leaky and are better samples.

 

No, it means that the chip can consume/dissipate more, thus is made for more capable (regarding heat dissipation) chassis.

BUT meaker's statement is also generally true:
"higher speed chips are less leaky and are better samples"

Which eventually means that 4900 will often run cooler than 4700 when ran at the same speed/voltage.

BUT prema's statement is also true
4702 chips are picked from the best CPUs which are able to run @ same clock, using a lower voltage

Feel the headache ?

 

So long story short, you're saying that for a given amount of work, the 4702 ("probably"?) will produce less heat because it ships undervolted, and is marketed as lower-power because these chips are selected for undervolt-tolerance instead of higher-load tolerance? That makes sense, and is part of why I was leaning towards the 4702 -- I'd rather have a cooler, slightly slower system, given the option.

 

That's pretty much how I understood it too. 'Cherry picking' a CPU would either be selecting a processor that can handle high frequencies but not deviate much from the nominal voltage, or one that can be run below the nominal voltage at a respectable frequency without becoming unstable.

If we can control the CPU frequency and voltage within the BIOS or XTU on this notebook, then that's great, but I'm with the group that prefer to have the system run in that manner without any tinkering.

 

I've heard that a few times. It seems that the higher clocked chips are the more stable ones. I wouldn't be so sure that it can make a noticeable temperature difference though..

I would also suppose that a 4700 will probably be able to match any clock/volts configs that a 4702 is capable of. I think the TDP is more important.

I know this is not the place to discuss this, but if that's true then I don't understand what TDP is (anyone got a link or something?).
As I see it, with both chips at the same state:
If higher TDP can consume/dissipate more, then it is cooler, because the absolute max temp would be the same. If it isn't the same, then the higher TDP would be higher.
So in either case, higher TDP is always the best choice.

Definitely.
Does anyone have a link with technical specs?

 

Thanks for explaining that.. Really appreciate it, but do you know if it's possible to throttle it dynamically based on the temps?? Gave it crack on my current laptop, seemed to work, although again quite a few settings in there and i'm not sure i want to spend my time tinkering around...

That said leaning with the 4702, purely because the only CPU intensive stuff I will do will be gaming..and in that space it might be more helpful to have a slightly automatically throttled CPU to give more headroom for the GPU.

The rest of my work is pretty light on.. Web / terminal based... So not sure I'll ever fully be able to appreciate the benefits of a higher locked multiplier on CPU..
I would love to see some gaming benchmarks on this lappy with the different CPU's..

 

We finally got the specs of the 900p screen (thanks to XNOTE.pl) : CPT CLAA133UA 05 (CPT 17E1)
Tough to find any reviews or tests though

 

Never seen the 05 variant before, but the CLAA133UA01 is commonly used in the ASUS Zenbook and Sony SA series. Very bright screen but poor contrast.

 

I have a question for LightningPL or any other current owners of the W230ST - I have one in build phase at XoticPC, so I'm hoping to receive the laptop within the next couple of weeks. Do you know if the 2.5" HDD bay can accomodate a 12.5mm height hard drive?

I recently purchased a Toshiba 1.5TB 12.5mm hard drive for my other laptop (P150SM), and I found that it fits perfectly in the optical drive caddy (... and the extra storage space has been helpful). Since the W230ST doesn't have an optical drive, do you know if the HDD bay can accept a slightly thicker 12.5mm hard drive? If it does, that would be awesome. If not, I'll just stick with a standard 9.5mm 1TB hard drive.

 

Years ago when camcorders came out with HDs for storage, I bought one to do some filming on my motorcycle. It was a sport bike, so the motor was pretty smooth, not like some Harleys that shake a lot at idle. Anyway, it crashed the Hard Drive in a few seconds. And that was with the bike just idling, not even going down the road.

Now that most camcorders are solid state based (SD Cards) vibration is not an issue.

 

So when is the 4702 supposed to be available as an option from the configurators?

 

It's available now from metabox / affordable laptops ( Affordable Laptops - laptops, notebooks for sale online Australia) who look after Australia... although they are still waiting on the lappies themselves from their supplier, which are expected to arrive this week / end of next week.

 

I guess one other cool thing about the 4702 is you could just as easily undervolt that chip even more for further performance without breaking the 37watt tdp limit...

 

Might as well go for the 4700mq and have the real and true power of the haswell i7 with the added 200mhz. You shouldn't be forced to use a slower 4702mq just to avoid heat/throttling. Clevo/Sager wouldn't put the 4700mq in there if they weren't going to work or if it will cause any throttling or overheating so one guy claiming he is overheating is probably a glitch or an isolated case.

 

Wrong again.

TDP as specified by intel, is the peak watt hours of heat or energy consumption that the chip will not exceed under load for the stock factory settings (or should be, but that's another discussion), and it's only used to match the chip to a chassis without melting it. Without overvolting or XTU, I don't think it's actually possible to hit the 47 watt hour throttling on a 4700, turbo or no turbo. (4800 might come close with XTU overclocks.)

It's not a secret voodoo 'the chip has better heat dissipation than the others' measurement. It's a property of the firmware/hardware on the chip before throttling kicks in, just like multipliers.

In either case, having that throttling available is a curse, not a feature. As it's a hard limit on what work your chip will actually do, even if your cooling system is capable and the chip wants to clock higher.

As anyone who has played with overclocking will tell you, the higher binned chips are only binned to their minimum specs, while the lower binned ones are rarely, if ever, run through higher bin tests to ensure they're rejects. There's plenty of i7 920's running around out there that have hit north of 4.5 ghz all cores (my own runs 4 ghz all cores on stock voltages, for example, all indications are that it could hit 5ghz with slightly refrigerated coolant -- that's pretty standard for that gen), and they were the lowest LGA1366 i7 created by intel. The 'highest binned' chips of that generation were the i7-980s, running at 3.6ghz single core (3.33ghz all cores).

I wouldn't be surprised if behind the curtain, there is no more binning going on anymore with that much room to breathe. Each i7 generation shares the same architecture and is really just the same chip, blindly multiplier locked according to market requirements, and verified that it runs at stock speeds. And it makes business sense to produce a billion of one chip rather than 200 million of 5 different kinds, too, so I'm not faulting intel for it.

A 'better' or 'golden' chip will run faster for a given voltage, or run on a lower voltage for a given speed, but for the same voltage and speed, they generate the same heat no matter how good a chip is. And all 4700s have the same stock voltage and multiplier. You do the math.

There's a reason all the highest end chips have unlocked TDP and multipliers, you know. ^_^

 

How much slower is the 4702mq than the 4700mq?

I'm sure the difference is negligible when gaming, so long as memory, ram and GPU are equivalent.

 

You wouldn't even notice a difference between a 4700 and 4702 if you looked at two PCs and were not told which system had which chip.