W230ST - The 13" We've been waiting for!?

See my initial impressions here:

I will keep updating the "NOTES" section as I go until I go into a full fledged review!

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...30-clevo-w230st-first-impressions-videos.html

 

Wow that was quick! I'm itching to sell my W110er to pick one of these up right now!

 

For general use, the write cycles is probably fine but in reality what I'm probably still thinking of is 4/8GB max days and Linux/*BSD/etc. where eventually VM is going to be used, remembering to disable locate indexing etc.(as I guess find with an ssd should be quick enough, or running locate w/o an index which just calls find anyways). VM ALWAYS ends up being used and can end up causing quite a bit of paging or at least it has so far on my linux 4/8GB machines, haven't really looked at last summer's desktop behavior yet but given vagaries in memory management and linux/etc. liking to use up all available memory can exacerbate the paging.

Almost 1GB for $960, the 1TB(well ~960GB since MBAs seem to only understand simple things like base 10) hdd was $120, or IOW I could buy 5 1TB hdds for the price of a single nearly equivalently sized ssd.

Performance: as a boot/common app it's great and 128GB with only windows booting from it) it was a pretty decent buy for c. $100 given the decreased boot/time to usable desktop time(this was the BIG boost for me on the nb, but my desktop boots and gets to desktop(usable) nearly as quickly on 10k 1TB drives... I just couldn't justify even c. $200 for a 256GB ssd also given that I'm fine with apps/games/etc. running from the 7200 750GB hdd and the 1TB 5400 hdd.

batt runtime: This is the true killer feature of the ssd as with commonly used apps and boot drive on ssd my batt usage had dropped considerably on the 8250, as in I could probably squeeze out maybe 4h on light-medium usage w/WiFi on given my experiences so far, but still once again cost rears it's ugly head as in I'm fine with my current hybrid setup for the 8250 and am happy to have the extra money saved from not buying ALL ssds to use for other purposes.

Back to mechanical problems of hdds in nbs: I'm pretty careful with mine and have yet to kill an hdd in a nb(and other devices) that I've owned or had to use, e.g. work. OTOH I've had hdds in desktops just fail w/o ever being moved, but that was back when seagate was having production problems and put out a metric ton of hdds that failed early, something about the spindle lubricant IIRC.

So, to my way of thinking at least having the extra cash easily trumps the batt runtime and r/w latency/bandwidth improvements until ssds get reasonably close to hdds in cost terms, say in the 1.5-2x range. Also in my typical usage I generally end up with nearly full drives which defeats wear levelling to an extent, so that'll be a hard habit to break and require more thought in partitioning and setting up a unixlike system, as I usually at least dual boot if not triple or more...

 

took ya time lol :thumbsup:
i did notice you was kinda quiet so i assumed you be doing this (so i hoped)

 

It's only been 1 day...but THE WAIT IS KILLING ME! Can't wait till when it gets here!!

 

What's the max ram speed? How significant is the difference between 1600/1866/2133?

 

Well 2133 RAM is running 1866 in my machine with i7-4800MQ. The difference is negligible except for the IGP that will gain some performance because of it.

 

Just looked at the pics from your review, did the laptop come with screws for the mSATA SSD?

 

Yes they do.

 

I'm ordering this thing. It's perfect timing for me. Perfect size, and specs. Just need a usb blueray for playback.

 

Found this video just now. Nice close-up coverage of the outside and inside of the W230ST. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL4OYxSg8Og&feature=youtube_gdata_player

And he mentions you, HTWingnut.

 

I'm considering buying an mSATA SSD 256GB for my (future) W230ST. Can anyone suggest a good one for me ? How about the Samsung PM830 ? I know very little about mSATA

 

So I got my W230ST today and after a round of fits with it, I finally got Windows installed. First issue was the BIOS was completely messed up and almost all the options were grayed out, including the boot options. Hitting F2 got me into the bios and doing an optimized reset got me back into business. The next issue was I tried 3 different USB DVD drives and not a single one would work to boot off my Windows7 disc. I ended up converting the ISO onto a bootable USB drive and got the OS installed.

Overall impressions are on par with Wing's and I will admit, I am a little disappointed with the heat output from this thing even with it just sitting idle. The touchpad over around the enter key section is much warmer than the rest of the keyboard and I can't imagine how hot it will get under load. I paid extra to have Diamond 7 applied so I might try to repaste it just to see if they botched it. The other thing I am a litlte underwhelmed with is the light bleed from the lower parts of the bezel, it is pretty extreme on mine but fine around the sides and top. My USB ports all seem to be acting weird as well and things plugged into them are randomly dropping and re-syncing and I also notice the fan profile seems to be off for the temp of the unit. Hopefully these issues can be resolved with future BIOS revisions.

On to a question, has anyone found a way to get the AC wireless Intel working on Windows 7? I thought I saw some of the vendors here reporting it would come with the necessary drivers but mine will not find any wireless networks and fails all the scan tests. I've installed all the drivers off the Windows 7 disc (comes with a 7 and an 8) with no luck unfortunately. I will keep playing around with it but I am afraid I will be looking at a Windows 8 boot screen in a couple hours..

I will post any pics by request. Specs of mine are: Intel 4800 Haswell, 2 Pletor 256GB mSATA drives, Seagate 750 Hybrid MX drive, Kingston Hyper-X 16GB of ram.

For a positive, the laptop feels very well made, looks professional, the power adapter is a tad bigger than an Iphone 5 in length (not girth) and boots into Windows at the speed of light I will post back once I get all the drivers and some apps installed.

 

Thanks for your input. Can you explain how the fan seems off to you?

I use my computer in quiet environments a lot. A fan that gets loud under idle/light loads is a big no-no for me.

 

Win 7 Intel 7260 drivers were posted several days ago, will see if I can find them, or look on Sager's site under other new laptops the drivers should be the same.

The fan profiles are definitely off, however you can set the system to power saver or quiet mode and you will never hear them ramp up.

 

Thanks Wing, you got me on the right track and I found them and they are indeed working under Windows 7: Software Upgrade

Update - I got the Nvidia drivers installed. For those struggling under Windows7 download the latest beta set off their website and replace the INF from here: http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/drivers/win8x64/320.20/disclaimer

Last issue remaining driver/software issue is the SB software not finding a valid device.

WC Fire - The fan on mine will kick on full blast doing something as simple as installing software/drivers then throttle down to about 75% then go down to around 45% I'd say. It seems to do this whenever the CPU spikes momentarly. It isn't super loud given this is such a small notebook, if it did it in a 17" model it would be very annoying.

 

So what is this talk about the different panels? Which is better and why?

They are all matte, correct? Is one better for gaming?

 

Short version: People are all buying the same laptop. But they want to go into the nitty-gritty details of the exact parts that go into their laptop, to make sure that they have "the best".



Long version:
A laptop manufacturer will buy LCD display panels from several different suppliers (e.g. AUO, LG, Samsung, etc). They do this to ensure that they always have a steady supply of parts at an affordable price. If one manufacturer (e.g. Samsung) runs out of inventory or raises their prices, then Clevo can just go to a different supplier to buy parts.

For the laptop manufacturer, they really don't care where they get the parts from, as long as the parts all meet the same minimum specifications that they advertise. In this case, it is a 13.3" 1920x1080 (1080p) IPS display panel. As long as Clevo buys parts that meet these specifications, then Clevo would have met their obligations to their customers.

Now, each LCD display manufacturer will have slight variations in the quality of the LCD panel they produce. Some LCD display manufacturers will produce panels with better color, contrast, brightness, etc than others. So when people in these forums are talking about different panel manufacturers, they are trying to get into the nitty-gritty details of exactly which manufacturer produced their LCD panel, so that they can get a sense of which LCD panels are better than the others.

Note #1: The differences that we're talking about here are actually pretty minor, and usually do not have any sort of practical real-world difference. For example, you may get lucky, and have a panel that can get up to a brightness of 412 cd/m2, instead of the 401 cd/m2 that other people get (I'm making up numbers here). You have a "better" panel than other people. But that has very little practical use, since you will probably never be able to tell the difference unless you have these two LCD panels side-by-side; and you may never even use that improved brightness, if you only ever set your display brightness to 350 cd/m2. The value here of comparing display quality is more about satisfying a personal obsessive-compulsive desire to have "the best", and not really about practical real-world benefits.

Note #2: The LCD panel you get is all random and luck. You don't have any control over it. When you buy this laptop, you buy a Clevo W230ST. You do not have the ability to specify that you want a Clevo W230ST, with a Brand XYZ Model ABC LCd display panel.

 

I haven't dig in to 13 inch ips panels, but they can be build to different spec. People who frequently follow 13 inch ultrabooks probably will know more.

 

Has anyone else tested this? If people can confirm that this is a legit/necessary/ok step to go ahead and perform, maybe this should be stickied in the OP of this thread, or in the Users' Lounge?

 

Thanks for link to inf files. I will update my drivers to latest. Weird that if you go to nVidia's site and plug in 765m it shows you the 320.49 beta and WHQL drivers but it doesn't support the 765m.

Yeah the fan needs work. But like I noted if you're in an environment where you need more silence just set clevo control panel (Fn+ESC) to use "quiet" setting and fans shouldn't burst like that.

 

Hey all. I've been following this thread since it was only 10 pages. I'm looking to get either this or the clevo p157sm, however I would like others' opinions on the two for what I (plan to) need.

What I'll be doing with the laptop

• 2+ OS multiboot: Windows 8 and at least 1 linux distribution
• Using it as a primary system: gaming, programming, and video transcoding
• Using it for 4+ years
• Have at least the 4800 processor

What doesn't really matter to me

• Battery life: Up to 2 hours*
• Size
• Weight
• CD Drive

*My current laptop is a generation 1 atom netbook that gets 4.5 hours on a battery with 95% usable charge. I'll admit that having a powerful laptop that still gets about 4 hours is nice, but I really don't need it since I'll usually use it plugged in.

I'm really worried about the temps that people are reporting on the w230st, but seeing as it's pretty cutting-edge, I'm sure we'll see some quick bios updates with performance and efficiency on stock, and further by whatever Prema comes up with.

It will see a lot of use in a library where I'll be working on programming and such, so I'm worried about the fan(s) going 100% when doing a quick compile. I'm torn between getting a powerful processor (4930/4900) so operations will complete faster, or just deal with a longer wait and potentially lower overall temp with the 4800.

I've researched the specs and synthetic and "realworld" benchmarks for all i7 haswells and both gpu's in question, so I'm just looking for objective opinions (lol...) of the viability of both laptops based on what I need (/want).

 

This laptop caught my attention as a possible replacement for my 4-year-old Dell inspiron-xps 13, which has served me well but is slowly giving up the ghost. However, the high temperatures and relatively low battery life HTWingNut is reporting, and Clevo about to switch to what sounds like an inferior screen, are putting me off somewhat (as is not having anywhere to easily buy the thing, but that's a different matter).

Will the difference in displayed colours (which I seem to recall being the most obvious difference between the two displays) be noticeable in practice?

 

On general terms you are totally right. I am quite satisfied that one can get an IPS panel.
But as I am working very often with photos I would prefer the Chimai N133HSE-EA1 (8 Bit) over the AUO B133HAN03.0 which is supposed to have only 6 Bit (couldn't get a confirmation yet). But most wouldn't notice the difference.

A couple of months ago I saw some resellers (of other Clevo Notebooks) offering the choice between different panels. Mainly it was done for mate, glossy but also for gamut reasons. Could be done here in a similar way. Put probably it's not worth the hassle, as I said, most wouldn't notice the difference.

 

We know our first batch is ChiMei as well, Clevo has said that they will be switching to AUO at "some point" but we dont' know when, however when they do, we've already committed to providing ChiMei's as an option (We'll install them ourselves) for as long as possible

 

After one day of having my w230st I have to say that the screen is very nice, especially for watching movies (no glare at all...I hated that from my old m11x) temps seem to hang oround 60° with the 4702qm CPU

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

 

The advantage of the AUO should be lower power draw (and thus higher battery life), right?

 

Yes, according to Global Panel Exchange Center - Panelook.com it should draw less power. At least at maximum.
Chimei N133HSE-EA1 Total Power Consumption : 6.39W (Max.)
AUO B133HAN03.0 Total Power Consumption : 4.45W (Max.)

 

Hey bro,

Did you ever find a solution to your USB port issues?

 

Interesting. 2W is a lot.
I wonder if the maximum brightness difference is noticeable...
If not, and quality doesn't suffer too much I would certainly go for the AUO !

 

You will almost never use the maximum brightness when on battery. And I will guess that when both displays are adjusted to the same percieved brightness there will not be anywhere near 2W difference in power draw.

 

Of course I will, every time I'm out.

 

Nice review HTWing.. I'm soo keen on buying right now..

 

I had the 1080 IPS panel on the new AW14 and it was grainy and not very bright and it was an auo panel. I fear that the AUO panel on the 13 would be the same quality so I do hope I get a CHI MEI panel instead.

 

At the same time AUO make the very well recieved 95% gamut for 15.6" and 90% 17.3" panels so you have to go on a model by model basis.

 

Would an owner let us know if it's usable outdoor ? (please specify your screen model)
A picture would be even nicer =)
Thanks !

 

Outside? What's that? Sunlight is overrated.

 

Any ideas where and when I can buy this laptop in Europe?

 

Yes and no. The laptop absolutely would not boot with a USB-attached DVD drive on any of the USB ports (3.0 or 2.0) and would cause weird behavior such as the fan hitting 100% throttle and eventually the laptop turned off. I tried two drives - an external bluray that uses USB and a desktop drive that is connected to a vantec SATA to USB kit, both did the same thing and neither would boot off the DVD to load the OS. The USB thumbstick works fine and no issues there and never drops a connection. Both my USB drives continue to act weird and will randomly drop and then come back online, I have not found a solution but they work fine on my desktop.

I ended up getting the laptop near 100% functional under Windows 7, the only thing that still does not work is the Sound Blaster software but I really don't care at this point since the speakers sound really good as it is.

Overall impressions after day 1:

Performance - Amazing for such a small unit. This thing FEELS faster every bit as fast as my OC'd Ivy bridge desktop. I can boot into Windows 7 in about 12 seconds from the time I hit the power button until the time it takes to login and this is with the boot logo enabled. I will report back on overall impressions in this area once I have more time to use it.

Keyboard - Excellent, I can type just as fast on this one as I can my Lenovo T420 work laptop and there is very little flex and the keys have a slight click sound when you press them. I also enjoy the spacing between the keys for fast typing.

Trackpad - No issues here, only one or two gestures I didn't mean to do on my own but it feels responsive and not overly sensitive which is a plus in my book.

Screen - Severe light bleed on the bottom of the bezel, mostly noticeable on dark backgrounds like black. The overall color reproduction is fantastic and the viewing angles are some of the best I've seen in awhile.

Screen Resolution - I laughed the first time I turned this on and saw text, looked very small to me and the icons looked like mini-icons on the desktop. You can zoom the desktop in to have bigger icons and keep other programs their normal size. I actually have adjusted fully to the smaller text now and it doesn't bother me one bit. You also have the option of zooming in apps if you need it so I would not let the higher res panel intimidate you from getting this unit unless you have really bad eyes.

Portability - This thing is very light and will make traveling a breeze, especially due to the size of the power adapter. The unit itself is also well built so I think it will hold up to some airport abuse.

Looks - Very business and modern looking, I would not be ashamed to bring this into the office with me or into a meeting.

Speakers/Sound - Pretty darn good for such a small laptop, definitely better than my last Alienware IMO. The laptop itself is overall is quiet until the fan hits around 75% and then 100% in which you can definitely hear it, but not a high pitched fan by any means. Overall I think you would be ok using this in somewhere like a library assuming you prevent the unit from throttling the fan up and down by setting it to "quiet" mode.

Heat - Bad. I undervolted my 4800 to 1.25 as Wing suggested and under light use it hovers 52-56 degrees doing web surfing or installing apps and will spike up to 75ish for no reason at all. I really think there is an issue with the fan profile settings that is causing this. I cannot recommend anyone get this processor or the models above until we figure out a cooling mod or get these fans worked out because it takes away from the overall enjoyment of the unit. Since I have the laptop fully setup now I plan to put it through its paces with a gaming night and will report back on temps. I also am going to dig out my digital thermal temp gun and see how hot the heat is that comes outside the vent because I swear you could use this thing as a hand dryer

Bed-side/Couch Use - Bad. So I know people are wondering why bring this category up but I bought this laptop to use on the couch when watching tv and in bed because I was tired of lugging around my 15.6". Between the fan spinning up constantly and the heat that comes from the underside and side of the unit, I cannot recommend this laptop if you plan to do either of these leisures on a frequent basis. You would be better off getting a cheap tablet to surf the web anywhere this unit cannot get proper airflow on the bottom or you cannot use a laptop cooler.

That's about it for now, feel free to request any pics or anything else you would like tested.

 

Pretty much, no one really know the difference unless we call pull the spec sheet somewhere. And then there is qc standard, which consumer have 0 access.

 

Thanks for your input! Would you mind taking some pics of the screen to give us an idea of what the desktop looks like with the "dinky" icons, etc.? Also, would you mind sharing some pics of the screen from different viewing angles?

Thx!

 

Thanks for your review. I'm a little confused about the heat / noise issue though. You're saying that, under minimal loads, this machine runs hot and the fan is spinning up constantly? I thought it was the case that either:

1. The machine gets warm in light loads, like the W110ER does, but does so to keep the fans silent
2. The fans are whirring to keep the machine cooler!

Is it the case that the fans are doing inefficient work of cooling, since they seem to be cutting in and out for people?

 

I"m on my third day now with mine. I love it. Screen is amazing and I'm glad I got the ssd. It boots up in about 10 seconds. I tried playing on battery to see if the games throttle down. I tested metro last light for 15 minutes with no slowdown at all on battery on max settings. I got the 4702mq. The only thing I wish they would have improved would be speaker quality. My m11x was much louder and sounded better.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

 

Part of the problem is the speakers are on the bottom and in the back on the sides, not real a real great location. They really needed to be topside or at worse bottom front.

 

Meet your new avatar

 

I uploaded some pics from my phone I've taken and I took some of the viewing angle from the sides. Not the best quality so I apologize but headed out the door to dinner. If you want more pics let me know, also included some of when I built it.

230st Photos by jmalto | Photobucket




]

 

OH BABY! Those angles are awesome! Thanks buddy!

 

Nice backgrounds too, but yes that display is pretty stunning.

 

Consider whether or not you want to be coding on a 13", even if it's 1080p. I was a cs major myself and during my first years I used a 13" vaio z w/ a 900p screen and whike it was nice when I switched to my 15" np9130 it was MUCH easier to program. I'd also save money and go with the bare minimum cpu since consider that most cs courses will not have you running anything that'll require even a quad core cpu since half of the class uses a mba anyways and the passignments you do need to be able to be acconplished even by those who can only afford a dual core pentium. As for gaming, on this machine, there bottleneck will never be the cpu. I myself have run 2 vms (ubuntu) on top of windows 7 on my sager and it handled it just fine even with the base quad-core (and so did my dell xps 13 with an ivy i5 ulv). Using the base quad-core is enough for anything you'll probably throw at it and it'll run cooler and cost much less. I'd advising using the money you save on a nice monitor or a larger ssd. (Too bad this thing doesn't have a displayport else, I'd be able to use my dp to dvi dl converter and hook it up to my korean 1440p like I do with my sager)

Just my 2 cents, feel free to ignore me conpletely though (I personally would prefer a full voltage dual core i7 as it's perfect for my use case, powerful and heat saving)

Which brings up another question I have, is it possible to get this with a dual core i7 either full volt or ulv versions? And if so, any resellers offering this? Thanks a lot!

 

I feel like I should kick myself in the pants for ordering an MSI GE40 literally four days before the 7330 was released....